Re: Home-brew nitro fuel

[d r a k]

Gerald wrote:
> I'm interested in trying to cook up some home-brew nitro fuel. My
> understanding is that the fuel basically has nitromethane, alcohol and
> lubricants, but the details elude me. I assume I would have to buy
> castor oil and pure nitromethane to start, but what else would I need,
> where would I get them, and how would I mix them together?
>
> Anyone have any experience?

I've thought that my self. Often enough I've gone as far as asking a few
forum boards here and there but nobody had ever given me a direct
answer. I've discovered in the past that if I added just a small amout
of "Heat" (The little yellow bottles that say Heat on them used to take
moisture out of a 1/1 scale vehicles fuel line and tank. found in the
automotive department.) It is 100% Methanol What I do is just put some
in with fuel that I've had sitting around for awhile stuff that is
susceptible to drawing in moisture into it over time. This normally
replenishes the stock stuff and boosts the % to content of methanol. To
much will over time destroy your engine do to the lesser amout of lube
it has in it. Shake well and enjoy your run. Not really sure what is
exact and what is not with the combination of it all just sort eye ball
it. Remember it is 100% Methanol And that little bottle cures a full
1/1 scale tank. So caution is advised your LHS Guru will probably say
thats a good idea cause you will see em again when you have a blown
engine ;) Thus more money in his pocket. My last words on this is
"CAUTION IS ADVISED"

[Johnboy]

I use 50% (1/2 gal) nitro, 12% Klotz that contains bean oil,
and the rest methyl alcohol. Mix the oil and alky first, then
add the nitro. If the temperature is below 50 degrees then
add 5% propylene oxide. Store the nitro in a cool dark cabinet
and buy the alky in 5 or 55 gallon drums. Buy the nitro in
a quantity that will last the racing season, usually 10-15
gallons. Shop around for the best price. Any ratio fuel can
be mixed, just change the formulas percentages, but do not
go below 10-15 % oil. You can get oil from Red Max,
Morgan Fuels, Klotz, and any Go-Kart/Cycle shop. Mixing
fuel is not dangerous if you use common sense. Nitro burns
real slow, gasoline explodes! But don't forget, you're on your own!!

"d r a k" <dcornelius@alaska.net> wrote in message
news:1062733504.621505@prawn...
> Gerald wrote:
> > I'm interested in trying to cook up some home-brew nitro fuel. My
> > understanding is that the fuel basically has nitromethane, alcohol
and
> > lubricants, but the details elude me. I assume I would have to buy
> > castor oil and pure nitromethane to start, but what else would I
need,
> > where would I get them, and how would I mix them together?
> >
> > Anyone have any experience?

My last words on this is
> "CAUTION IS ADVISED"

[d r a k]

Thanx John =)

[ollo]

d r a k wrote:
>
> Gerald wrote:
> > I'm interested in trying to cook up some home-brew nitro fuel. My
> > understanding is that the fuel basically has nitromethane, alcohol and
> > lubricants, but the details elude me. I assume I would have to buy
> > castor oil and pure nitromethane to start, but what else would I need,
> > where would I get them, and how would I mix them together?
> >
> > Anyone have any experience?
>
> I've thought that my self. Often enough I've gone as far as asking a few
> forum boards here and there but nobody had ever given me a direct
> answer. I've discovered in the past that if I added just a small amout
> of "Heat" (The little yellow bottles that say Heat on them used to take
> moisture out of a 1/1 scale vehicles fuel line and tank. found in the
> automotive department.) It is 100% Methanol What I do is just put some
> in with fuel that I've had sitting around for awhile stuff that is
> susceptible to drawing in moisture into it over time. This normally
> replenishes the stock stuff and boosts the % to content of methanol. To

You can't be serious... Adding methanol to the fuel (that already is
50-80% methanol) to "draw in" moisture from the other methanol that's
already in there??? Where do you think this moisture goes? Jesus H.
Christ... it will still stay in the fuel, only now you have bigger
amount of f***ed up fuel than before. The problem with the fuel IS that
it draws in moisture, you don't need to add extra methanol to do that.
It works with 1:1 cars, because these run gasoline, which does not mix
with water, thus the water stays in tank and eventually comes out in
large amounts. Real car engines don't mind burning that little amount of
water with added methanol to dilute the water, but our small methanol
engines do. They don't like to burn water-methanol mix, that's the
problem we are having with the old fuel in the first place.

> much will over time destroy your engine do to the lesser amout of lube
> it has in it. Shake well and enjoy your run. Not really sure what is
> exact and what is not with the combination of it all just sort eye ball
> it. Remember it is 100% Methanol And that little bottle cures a full
> 1/1 scale tank. So caution is advised your LHS Guru will probably say
> thats a good idea cause you will see em again when you have a blown
> engine ;) Thus more money in his pocket. My last words on this is
> "CAUTION IS ADVISED"

I'd go a bit further and say that your story is complete BS. Only
reasonable suggestion is to shake the fuel well. This should be done
every time before using to re-mix the components properly, as they have
different density.

To the original poster: yes, the fuel has nitromethane, methanol and
oils (these days mostly synthetic and some add a little castor). Purity
of methanol & nitromethane and selection of oil type & quality are
extremely important to get a good mix. Mixing tools are very important
to get this all correct, there are basically 2 ways - volumetric and
weight. Volumetric is easier for a home lab, but you REALLY have to know
what you are doing and you have to mix large amounts to get better
accuracy AND to get a financial effect out of it. For average Joe it's
much less hassle and actually cheaper to buy factory mixed fuel.
You may get more info by searching http://www.rctech.net/ forums, there
are some (really fast) guys who mix their own fuel. They will however
tell you the same story - don't do it unless you absolutely have to. It
is not worth doing in small amounts, with bad tools or out of components
of questionable quality. It's also really easy to f**k up and blow your
engines or just not get the performance you'd get with commercially
available fuel.

BR,
-olev-

[René Koens]

"ollo" <ollo@hot.ee> schreef in bericht news:3F585911.95413322@hot.ee...
> d r a k wrote:
> >
> > Gerald wrote:
> > > I'm interested in trying to cook up some home-brew nitro fuel. My
> > > understanding is that the fuel basically has nitromethane, alcohol and
> > > lubricants, but the details elude me. I assume I would have to buy
> > > castor oil and pure nitromethane to start, but what else would I need,
> > > where would I get them, and how would I mix them together?
> > >
> > > Anyone have any experience?
> >
> > I've thought that my self. Often enough I've gone as far as asking a few
> > forum boards here and there but nobody had ever given me a direct
> > answer. I've discovered in the past that if I added just a small amout
> > of "Heat" (The little yellow bottles that say Heat on them used to take
> > moisture out of a 1/1 scale vehicles fuel line and tank. found in the
> > automotive department.) It is 100% Methanol What I do is just put some
> > in with fuel that I've had sitting around for awhile stuff that is
> > susceptible to drawing in moisture into it over time. This normally
> > replenishes the stock stuff and boosts the % to content of methanol. To
>
> You can't be serious... Adding methanol to the fuel (that already is
> 50-80% methanol) to "draw in" moisture from the other methanol that's
> already in there??? Where do you think this moisture goes? Jesus H.
> Christ... it will still stay in the fuel, only now you have bigger
> amount of f***ed up fuel than before. The problem with the fuel IS that
> it draws in moisture, you don't need to add extra methanol to do that.
> It works with 1:1 cars, because these run gasoline, which does not mix
> with water, thus the water stays in tank and eventually comes out in
> large amounts. Real car engines don't mind burning that little amount of
> water with added methanol to dilute the water, but our small methanol
> engines do. They don't like to burn water-methanol mix, that's the
> problem we are having with the old fuel in the first place.
>
> > much will over time destroy your engine do to the lesser amout of lube
> > it has in it. Shake well and enjoy your run. Not really sure what is
> > exact and what is not with the combination of it all just sort eye ball
> > it. Remember it is 100% Methanol And that little bottle cures a full
> > 1/1 scale tank. So caution is advised your LHS Guru will probably say
> > thats a good idea cause you will see em again when you have a blown
> > engine ;) Thus more money in his pocket. My last words on this is
> > "CAUTION IS ADVISED"
>
> I'd go a bit further and say that your story is complete BS. Only
> reasonable suggestion is to shake the fuel well. This should be done
> every time before using to re-mix the components properly, as they have
> different density.
>
> To the original poster: yes, the fuel has nitromethane, methanol and
> oils (these days mostly synthetic and some add a little castor). Purity
> of methanol & nitromethane and selection of oil type & quality are
> extremely important to get a good mix. Mixing tools are very important
> to get this all correct, there are basically 2 ways - volumetric and
> weight. Volumetric is easier for a home lab, but you REALLY have to know
> what you are doing and you have to mix large amounts to get better
> accuracy AND to get a financial effect out of it. For average Joe it's
> much less hassle and actually cheaper to buy factory mixed fuel.
> You may get more info by searching http://www.rctech.net/ forums, there
> are some (really fast) guys who mix their own fuel. They will however
> tell you the same story - don't do it unless you absolutely have to. It
> is not worth doing in small amounts, with bad tools or out of components
> of questionable quality. It's also really easy to f**k up and blow your
> engines or just not get the performance you'd get with commercially
> available fuel.
>
> BR,
> -olev-

What olev sais is correct.
I mixxed my one fuel once and i ended up with a more expensive fuel than the
standard racing fuel. Also i had to buy a new car because mine blew to h*ll
when i started it.

[d r a k]

d r a k wrote:
> Thanx John =)
>
Its obvious that some people don't read the rest of the story here.
Please keep your opinions to yourself and suggest things. Think about
how you word it to someone and how your going to present it to someone,
Just blantently stating that ITS BS is a possible act of hostility which
could cause the person on the other end to strike back. I really don't
care what just happened but if I was someone else with a short fuse... A
stupid situation could go on and on inside the NG. Its happened before
and it will happen again. I'm not that type of person. Be more grown up
about how you handle something.

[Anthony Consolazio Jr.]

The method makes some sense, it's just the explanation that is off.
take a batch of badfuel with 20% nitro 17%oil , assume 5% water(Ihave no Idea
how much it will actually absorb) has gotten in to the mix over the off season.
your 100 cc of fuel(because it makes the #'s easy) has 20cc nitro, 17cc oil, 5cc
water, and 58cc methanol
Add to your bottle 25cc of pure methanol, for a total of 125cc of fuel, which
has
16%nitro
13.6%oil
4%water
66.4%methanol
The new fuel has 20%less water by volume. it also has less oil, but the percent
combustable(nitro+methanol) is higher, 82.4%vs 78% in the stock fuel.
There are only small differences here, but it may be the difference between
useable fuel, and junk,
-Anthony


"ollo" <ollo@hot.ee> wrote in message news:3F585911.95413322@hot.ee...
d r a k wrote:
>
> Gerald wrote:
> > I'm interested in trying to cook up some home-brew nitro fuel. My
> > understanding is that the fuel basically has nitromethane, alcohol and
> > lubricants, but the details elude me. I assume I would have to buy
> > castor oil and pure nitromethane to start, but what else would I need,
> > where would I get them, and how would I mix them together?
> >
> > Anyone have any experience?
>
> I've thought that my self. Often enough I've gone as far as asking a few
> forum boards here and there but nobody had ever given me a direct
> answer. I've discovered in the past that if I added just a small amout
> of "Heat" (The little yellow bottles that say Heat on them used to take
> moisture out of a 1/1 scale vehicles fuel line and tank. found in the
> automotive department.) It is 100% Methanol What I do is just put some
> in with fuel that I've had sitting around for awhile stuff that is
> susceptible to drawing in moisture into it over time. This normally
> replenishes the stock stuff and boosts the % to content of methanol. To

You can't be serious... Adding methanol to the fuel (that already is
50-80% methanol) to "draw in" moisture from the other methanol that's
already in there??? Where do you think this moisture goes? Jesus H.
Christ... it will still stay in the fuel, only now you have bigger
amount of f***ed up fuel than before. The problem with the fuel IS that
it draws in moisture, you don't need to add extra methanol to do that.
It works with 1:1 cars, because these run gasoline, which does not mix
with water, thus the water stays in tank and eventually comes out in
large amounts. Real car engines don't mind burning that little amount of
water with added methanol to dilute the water, but our small methanol
engines do. They don't like to burn water-methanol mix, that's the
problem we are having with the old fuel in the first place.

> much will over time destroy your engine do to the lesser amout of lube
> it has in it. Shake well and enjoy your run. Not really sure what is
> exact and what is not with the combination of it all just sort eye ball
> it. Remember it is 100% Methanol And that little bottle cures a full
> 1/1 scale tank. So caution is advised your LHS Guru will probably say
> thats a good idea cause you will see em again when you have a blown
> engine ;) Thus more money in his pocket. My last words on this is
> "CAUTION IS ADVISED"

I'd go a bit further and say that your story is complete BS. Only
reasonable suggestion is to shake the fuel well. This should be done
every time before using to re-mix the components properly, as they have
different density.

To the original poster: yes, the fuel has nitromethane, methanol and
oils (these days mostly synthetic and some add a little castor). Purity
of methanol & nitromethane and selection of oil type & quality are
extremely important to get a good mix. Mixing tools are very important
to get this all correct, there are basically 2 ways - volumetric and
weight. Volumetric is easier for a home lab, but you REALLY have to know
what you are doing and you have to mix large amounts to get better
accuracy AND to get a financial effect out of it. For average Joe it's
much less hassle and actually cheaper to buy factory mixed fuel.
You may get more info by searching http://www.rctech.net/ forums, there
are some (really fast) guys who mix their own fuel. They will however
tell you the same story - don't do it unless you absolutely have to. It
is not worth doing in small amounts, with bad tools or out of components
of questionable quality. It's also really easy to f**k up and blow your
engines or just not get the performance you'd get with commercially
available fuel.

BR,
-olev-

[Jim Banks]

For whoever might be interested, there has been a little discussion over the
years in the RC groups about a way of removing water from glow fuel using
molecular sieves. The following URL will take you to Google search results
listing several newsgroup articles on the topic. The info is pretty sketchy
though, and no one seems to have posted any definitive results. I priced
the 3A molecular sieve at Fisher Scientific for $77.80 per 500 g bottle, so
you have to consider the cost.

http://tinyurl.com/mr12

--
Jim
-----
www.onandaga.com