walkalong glider

[x-surfer]

I have had success
building my own walkalong gliders. Please see my site
for instructions and links to other walkalong glider
sources:

http://geocities.com/x_surfer2004/

"The X-Surfer"

[steelhead]

I remember the walkalong glider featured in OMNI magazine in the early 80's

I have been playing with these for year and have had so much fun with them. occasionally I'll walk one through the local shopping mall without the cardboard slope- using only my body. it still amazes me!

Dean

[x-surfer]

It pains me these things are still not widely available or cheap (at least in my area of Massachusetts), especially in this centennial anniversary of flight year. That's great you are flying walkalongs. I fly them at our local science museum and teach kids how to fly using them.

[steelhead]

I saw them in a KAYBEE toys for $10 a 2 pack. I bought a pack or two. They worked almost perfect right out of the box.

Easy to make yourself, only you gotta find depron in 2 mil. nearly impossible for me in CA. There are a few companies that sell smallish sheets- but you gotta buy a lot.

Any other designs for this purpose?

Dean@steelheadproducts.com

[x-surfer]

I'm using Raft-R-Mate (see geocities.com/x_surfer2004 for details) and am experimenting with zepron (from air dynamics) and wire cut blue core foam. I then weigh the planes to determine density. The less the density the slower the glider will fly.

I know of other designs by Terry Sweeney. He claims to have invented the "walkaplane" at the same time as Tyler Maccready. He gave me the sheets of wire cut blue core foam. I don't believe he has a web site.

[steelhead]

What do you mean by wire cut?
As in the basic template is cut, or is there an airfoil?
As for a basic shape template- thats easy

Dean@steelheadproducts.com

[x-surfer]

Terry is wire cuting the foam as thin as possible to get as light a slice as possible. The objective is to get a thin sheet slice off a larger block of foam. I believe I have seen jigs advertised at rcgroups.com which could be used for this purpose. Then the plane is cut and airfoil thermoformed from this thin low density sheet stock.

[x-surfer]

Paul Maccready suggested using aerogel to make walkalong gliders. Aerogel is possibly the least dense solid known at .00018 pounds per cubic inch.
It is not readily available, but when the opportunity presents itself...

[steelhead]

Oh- yeah. Cutting the sheets to 1/8th thickness planks is no problem. I do that already. You said you get depron from a source? Expensive?

Do you know this Terry Sweeney person, or are they on the web? When did you speak of aerogel? I've seen and held the stuff. It's pretty neat.

Next week perhaps I'll cut some sheets of 1/16th thick foam and give it a whirl.

Dean@steelheadproducts.com

[x-surfer]

I haven't messed with Depron. I have some Zepron from airdynamics at:
http://www.nyblimp.com/zepron.htm
But Zepron appears to be more dense than Raft-R-Mate and the gliders fly faster.

Terry Sweeney is best known as a hang gliding pioneer. There is a blerb about him at the bottom of this URL:
http://www.hangglidingspectacular.com/videocontest.html
He is also interested in walkalong gliders and gave me the least dense material yet. It is blue core foam hot wire sliced so thin you can see through it. It worked well the first time I tried it but appears to suffer in the durability department, losing its shape over time.

Aerogel is the least dense material around. It is probably prohibitively expensive as well as scarce:
http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/tech/aerogel.html
Any less dense and the atoms would not hold together at all.

I'm finding that Raft-R-Mate is the best in terms of density, finish and durability. I'd be interested to find out how 1/16th thick foam turns out.

x_surfer2004@yahoo.com

[x-surfer]

First ever walkalong glider contest!

Events include duration, altitude, distance and speed. Check out the details at:
http://geocities.com/x_surfer2004/competition.html

[steelhead]

Where is this located?

Sounds interestin.


When?

Dean

[x-surfer]

Hello Dean,
The competition took place in my native Massachusetts on 12/14/03. Having a competition really motivates people to learn the various flying skills to enjoy a sport. I am also flying at the Museum of Science Boston where we have done an interpretation called the Wright Brother's Challenge where visitors try and fly for 12 seconds (the duration of the first powered flight on 12/17/1903).

[steelhead]

any new walkalong glider news?

Dean@steelheadproducts.com

[x-surfer]

Get the latest results and photos from the Greater Boston Soaring Club junior's holiday party walkalong glider contest at:
http://www.geocities.com/x_surfer2003/walkalong.html


Kids make zepron Z-Surfers and learn to fly in Museum of Science Boston Course. A course will be offered again in late June.

Guinness Book of World Records walkalong glider categories are expected to become valid in May 2004. The categories will include duration, distance and altitude gain.

For a complete listing of other events see:
http://www.geocities.com/x_surfer2004/events.html

Phil

[steelhead]

I love this stuff.

Dean

[x-surfer]

Glad you think so. Have you spotted any walkalong glider types in toy stores of late? I have yet to see one.

[steelhead]

Not this year, last year they were in KAYBEE toys

Dean

[TeamTEOR]

Maybe I'll give it a go, I have a full bundle of Depron that I picked up to try to make some planes.

I can get pleanty of it. The dimentions are 24" x 48" x 6" for the bundle. If anyone needs a bundle I'll pick it up and send the bundle for $40 plus the shipping. I will ship using UPS or FedEx ground.

http://www.teamteor.com/rcgroups/depron1.jpg

http://www.teamteor.com/rcgroups/depron2.jpg

[x-surfer]

Wow, that's alot of stuff! Can you get some 1/16th inch thick depron? It would be real helpful to get flat stuff which is as light as Raft-R-Mate. for a table of gliders and their weights see:
http://www.geocities.com/x_surfer2004/xweightab.html
How thick is the Depron pictured?

[steelhead]

That's BLUCOR, not depron


Dean

[TeamTEOR]

I thought it was the same. LOL. I guess I am a noob. LOL

[steelhead]

I want something even lighter

Dean

[Tominator]

Man, walkalong gliders look so cool! I wonder if you can make it out of balsa and just sand it down to a airfoil?

Tom,

[x-surfer]

Man, walkalong gliders look so cool! I wonder if you can make it out of balsa and just sand it down to a airfoil?

Tom,

Hi Tom,
It is possible to work in balsa but my experience is that foam is easier to trim.
X-Surfer

[Tominator]

Little while ago I Built a copy of the the Z-surfer out of balsa. It has a polyhedri in it and it flys okay but its not very stable. So today I took it out to a college near me and was flying it. Oh, and by the way I was just gliding it regular. I dont know if its balance or just the wind making it so unbalanced? :confused:I will have pictures later. :D

[Tominator]

Here they are:


Note:the maker of this plane is almost 13 years old. The middle picture is me. :D

[x-surfer]

Hi Tominator.
Nice effort putting together a walkalong glider wing from balsa. I think you are the first to do it. When I make a Z-Surfer (from Zepron) or X-Surfer (from Raft-R-Mate) it takes lots of adjustments of elevon (the aft elevator tabs) camber (the curvature of the wings) and washout (the twist of each wing, with max angle of attack at the centerline, diminishing symetrically to each wing tip) before it flies in a stable fasion. How much does your Z-Surfer weigh? The weight will determine how fast it flies and wheather you can keep up with it. See the table of various weights and wingspans:
Weights of Various Walkalong Class Gliders (http://www.geocities.com/x_surfer2004/xweightab.html)
and also flight durations of various weights and wingspans:http://www.geocities.com/x_surfer2004/duration.html
It might be easier to experiment with thermoformed polystyrene (like large takeout containers) or room temperature folding of Zepron or Depron so that modifications can be easily made to your design prototype. Good luck.

X-Surfer

PS
Commercial walkalong gliders are still available over the net:
Windrider Walkalong glider (http://www.windrider.com.hk/products/product.cfm?id=8)
The second toy from the end:
Wind Rider (3 pcs)
Model No : W888
Price : US$ 10
Shipping & handling : US$ 5
Description

It is a whole different can of worms learning to fly walkalong gliders: A large indoor location such as a gym or museum without major HVAC drafts is optimal, then the glider needs to be properly preflighted (trimmed) Then you have to become a pilot through coordination of the paddle relative to the glider as it flies.

Here they are:


Note:the maker of this plane is almost 13 years old. The middle picture is me. :D

[Tominator]

X-surfer, I dont know the weight of my glider right now. I think it will be more because I'm trying to make balanced alittle better. You would think this thing would be really balanced because of its polyhedrial. I going to try some different things before make the " production version."

[x-surfer]

I'm building walkalong gliders from forming flat material into a 3-d surface with folds. I guess your balsa design has a little more bulk to the airfoil. Is that what you mean by polyhedral? Or did you mean dihedral? Your glider looks like it has nice dihedral.

[Tominator]

X-surfer, the glider has a dihedral in the center and than a dihedrial on the tips. I gave up on the balsa configuration because number 1 its to heavy. Number 2 its not balanced very well, number 3 is it keeps on getting broken and I keep having to glue it which is making it really heavy. So my dad convinced me to make one out of foam and finally we did. The first one My dad made out of Epp and it flew really well so, I cut some Epp and sanded down the airfiol and balanceed it correctly and tossed out and it flew great! Why I was working on those guys I designed a glider for booming thermals only. I finished it today but I havent flown yet at all. ( Note my dad, my brother,and I have a 2 week vacation because of the Holidays.)

[x-surfer]

:D :D
Tominator:
Seems like you're well on your way to getting your epp (?) glider properly trimmed for minimum sink (http://home.att.net/~jdburch/polar.htm). What is epp? Is it Expanded Polypropylene? Are you working from sheet or carving up a block? This is the first I've heard of Expanded Polypropylene. How much do your gliders weigh?
Phil

[Tominator]

X- surfer,my dad and I have some EPP Left over from cutting cores. My dad had this pretty thin piece of it.So he cut out the glider with a paper template Of the Z-surfer that I found on the web. From there he used a razor blade and sand paper to make a airfoil on the wing and he balanced it with a dime. I made one and it floats on just alittle gust of wind. I dont know how much these guys way but I know its not as much as my balsa version. I will trie and geet how much they way.
Sincerely,
Tom

[x-surfer]

NOw you're cooking! have you tried a straightened paper clip extending forward of the nose and taped into place? THe wire can be slid back and forth under the tape to trim the glider.

[Tominator]

Maybe I should trie that. The gliders fly fine now. My wieght is just a dime to balance it. I made another one today It has a thinner airfoil than the others and has more of a dihedral to the outer wing tips.

[x-surfer]

It is much easier to trim the glider using the ballast position than adjusting the elevons. The taped paper clip wire allows this capability. I find myself trimming before each flight. The easiest flights are when the glider is tuned (http://www.geocities.com/x_surfer2004/tuning.html) to fly as slowly as possible.

X-Surfer

[Tominator]

Maybe I should give that a try. Yesterday I had a pretty good flight in the backyard. See, a while ago I found a 6 foot rubberband in my garage ( nobody knows how it got there). I tied it to a chair on one side and the other i tied a loop. I got one of my walkalong gliders that was'nt as important as my other one. I attached a paper clip to the plane and test glided it just to make sure it was balanced right with the added weight. I launched a few times and to tell you the truth it didnt fly well. But I had this flight that started off like a mess up, It looked like it was going too crash but all the sudden it started to do a straight up climb and than came straight at me and glided back down over my neighbors yard. That was a awsome flight!

[x-surfer]

Hi Tominator,
That's great you are test gliding before your flights. I find the ballast position where the glider is about to stall (goes as slow as possible) then I trim a smidgen aft. This works because the lift from a walkalong gliding paddle is not even and the part of the glider closer to the paddle like the elevons in the rear experience more lift than the nose. This produces a forward trim. So I find that the best trim (http://www.geocities.com/x_surfer2004/advanced.html) will look too far aft when the glider is in free flight. :eek:
X-Surfer

[x-surfer]

Scaling up Walkalong Gliders

I've posted plans for using ratios to create gliders of any size:
http://www.geocities.com/x_surfer2004/ratiomeas

I've created gliders of 29 and 52" wingspans from Depron:
depronusa.com

Phil X-Surfer

[x-surfer]

A group out in Kansas makes stick and tissue walkalong gliders. The lightness of the material allows them to create scale models such as a DeHavilland Twin Otter. Data and detailed specifications can be found at:
http://www.geocities.com/xsurfergroup/davida.html

Phil X-Surfer :D

[steelhead]

I got an email from that guy as well- he's got lots of photos.

I am wanting the plans for the red "flat" wing and the plane directly in front of it as well. Did you get them? Maybe I need to email him again

Dean

[Tominator]

Is there any plans for those models? It looks real neat.

[x-surfer]

When I get the plans I will post them on my site or here. Has anyone tried making a foam glider and then cutting out the wing so as to leave just a frame and cover it with tissue or mylar? That way you could test the glider as a full foam glider to assure a well shaped walkalong glider wing then make the airframe lighter by substituting tissue or mylar for sections of foam.

[x-surfer]

David Aronstein has created plans for his best stick and tissue glider. It is in power point form here (http://www.geocities.com/xsurfergroup/ClubRacer.ppt). :)

More information and photos here (http://geocities.com/xsurfergroup/davida).

The finished glider looks like this:

[x-surfer]

I used a 19.5"X27.5"X33mm Sheet of Depron from Depron USA (http://depronusa.com) to make the 50" Jumbo Walkalong Glider. There is also a web page showing how the glider was built (http://geocities.com/xsurfergroup/jumbowg.html).

[traumwind]

Hi Phil,
I'm not sure if you know this:
The 'Hangflygarn' seems tol be about the lightest (and slowest flying) Walkalong glider I've found to date. Here's the Homepage describing it: http://modellflygforbund.se/friflyginomhus/Hangflygarn/Hangflygarn.html

There's also some info on this page by Kiochi Tanaka (in Japanese I think)
http://www.oyajin.jp/~toko/eplane/hangflygarn/01/index.html
Which links a very nice video of the Hangflygarn in action:
http://www.oyajin.jp/~toko/eplane/hangflygarn/01/indoor%20hang%20flying.WMV

Enjoy, Martin

Note: botzh the Swedish and Japanese site deal wit hte same glider.
Here's a systran link to translate the Swedish to English:
http://www.systranbox.com/systran/box?systran_lp=sv_en&systran_id=SystranSoft-en&systran_url=http://modellflygforbund.se/friflyginomhus/Hangflygarn/Hangflygarn.html&systran_f=1115656668

[bamm]

Is there any plans? I just tried to make it and I followed every thing and it doesn't fly

[x-surfer]

Is there any plans? I just tried to make it and I followed every thing and it doesn't fly

Hello Bamm,
I spent lots of time studying the commercial walkalong gliders (Wind Rider of Hong Kong Model No : W888 (http://www.windrider.com.hk/products/product.cfm?id=8)) before I got all the angles correct (the folds for camber, elevons and washout angle). When you have a first cut at the folds, they need to be tuned. I have tried to put this information in the Tuning a Walkalong Glider web page (http://geocities.com/x_surfer2004/tuning).

If you do end up getting a commercial walkalong glider, experiment with your own ballasts by taping them to the nose. I can reduce the all up weight (and fly slower) by not using the commercial ballast and instead using a paper clip (weighing about 0.7 gram) extending forward as a boom.

Good luck.

X-Surfer

[TeamTEOR]

I am not sure if anyone knows this, but these gliders are also for sale at Walgreens for $5.99. They come two in a package, and are located in the toy isle.

[robbie]

there is a movie on the foamfly website

[tduro]

Just stumbled on this thread. Never heard of a walkalong glider before. It's fascinating. Would a modified zing-wing work? http://www.zingwing.com/

[traumwind]

tduro: Those wings look nice, they should work if they can fly at a 'walking pace'. Remember, to do 'walkalong gliding', the wing needs to be flying only so 'fast' that you can actually keep up with it. If you can 'runalong' that might work also.

-Martin

[steelhead]

Those Zing wings fly too fast, not enough area for their weight, but the concept could be expanded upon.

Build something similar and let us know!

Dean

[Flyingwingbat1]

I've had enough fun flying my walkalong gliders ( 1 lb white foam Flying wing, constant-chord plank style w/ winglets, ballast boom, anywhere from 3-9" span, .03 g to .5 g weight) that it made me wonder..could I do this w/ just the wing, tumbling along backwards? I started experimenting in March this year w/ this form of flight(go to fanwing.com(sp) or google "fanwing" to see a MUCH more sophisticated example of this concept). My results and observations so far;

They are harder to fly(air deflector must be held near-vertical to develop adequate lift, they are yaw-sensitive, wobbling on their spin axis if turned too quickly, also they can sideslip to the ground if you aren't careful) Also, the air must be dead calm.

Relating to the above. Lateral balance is CRITICAL,far more than in regular walkalong gliders. Small weight imbalances cause said sideslip.

Flight speed is INCREDIBLY SLOW, especially for the smaller ones. I take maybe 1 step/sec to keep up w/ them.

The larger and lighter(wingloading-wise) "T-wings" require much more camber at the LE and TE to sustain rotation w/ their low rotational inertia. Less camber is needed for heavier models, due to higher rotating inertia among other factors.

Dimensions; around 3.5:1 to 5:1 aspect ratio works best in my experience regardless of size (my flying examples range from 3/4"--not a typo-- to 7" span). Bent-up endplates are a necessity to prevent sideslip also. Endplate height is around 1/2-2/3 chord length, the corners are rounded so they're less likely to strike the air deflector in flight. Any questions? email flyingingbat1@yahoo.com

[traumwind]

flyingingbat1: Those sound very interesting. Could you post some pictures?
Thanks, Martin

[Flyingwingbat1]

Sorry, no pics yet, I will be getting a digital camera in a few month's time, when I go to college. I might post some plans once I draw them up. Oh yes, I've had success making/ flying tumblewings out of standard store receipts(here in the U.S. anyways). The paper's weight is between that of standard printer/ copier paper and phone book paper(which would work just fine, too, I'd imagine). As long as the wing shape is cut accurately, the paper's consistency is far superior to that of the foam I use, ensuring less lateral weight imbalances and more consistent flight characteristics.

But don't wait for me to post the plans or pics; make some tumblewings for yourself! They're so simple it only takes a few minutes to make one. Here's an example that will almost guarantee steady tumbling flight.
Cut a 5x1" paper strip from any old phone book or newspaper. Ensure that it isn't wrinkled/torn, etc. At the ends; fold up the last 3/4" or so to form endplates at a 90 degree angle (or thereabouts) from the horizontal. Round off the corners of the endplates to prevent whirling corners from striking the air deflector in flight.
Like this from "front" view: l_______l Then bend the 1st and last 1/4" of wing chord at say, 30-45 degree angles, like this;

_________/ (VERY crude side view showing cross-section)
/ Pretend it's all connected.

It took me far longer to type all that than it does to make one. A 12x18" cardboard air deflector (w/ mild convex curvature) or something similar is used to sustain flight. I hold the wing, endplates up, by the up-bent "trailing edge" and release it so it tumbles backwards in flight, then bring the air deflector close behind the wing, near-vertical, to keep it going. It took me a LOT of practice to master this form of flight. Any prior walkalong glider experience will help you, so go for it!

[x-surfer]

Thanks to flyingwingbat1 for this design. It can be made from scrap tissue and does not require the ballast that the walkalong glider does. One note on flying it: when it achieves stable flight it spirals down. I needed to get behind it with my paddle to sustain it. It flies so slow it might be hard to tell which direction it is flying in!

Although it has a different way of flying the tumble wing has similar handling characteristics as a properly trimmed walkalong glider, but much much slower and steadier. It is a great way to start walkalong gliding.

X-Surfer (geocities.com/x_surfer2004)

[x-surfer]

I've had progress making tumblewings from ordinary paper. I make an 8" wingspan from 8 1/2 X 11 paper and fly it with a 10X15" paddle (largest dimension horizontal). The trick to gaining altitude with heavier tumblewings involves balancing the flying tumblewing in the center of the paddle and walking faster to create more upwind. I am hopeful this will allow tumblewings to be used in somewhat less still air conditions than the tissue models.

flyingwingbat1 also has come up with a self launch rig for a paddle (though I have not yet tried it):

[x-surfer]

I've been trimming butterflies to fly as walkalong gliders (http://geocities.com/walkalongbutterfly/). Their life cycle in the butterfly stage is 7-10 days so there is a steady supply of new butterlies. When they die, their wings sometimes happen to be trimmed so they are stable flying upside down. It is just a matter of balancing the center of gravity with some nail polish to get a nice glide ratio close to minimum sink airspeed. It is difficult to dry the wings so they are stable flying right side up. I am still perfecting a form to shape the wings and make them fly topside up.

The better species are the Morphos (http://www.butterflies.org/lvstk.cfm?lvstkID=7) and Owl (http://www.butterflies.org/lvstk.cfm?lvstkID=22) Butterflies. Longwings (http://www.butterflies.org/lvstk.cfm?lvstkID=32) are harder to fly in ambient turbulence because of their short pitch moment. Proponas (attached picture) are heavy and take a long time to dry.

[traumwind]

That is awesome!
What I like the most about this ida is the fact that it shows very nicely that there ARE some natural gliders in the very low reynoldy number range (small wing chord and slow flying)... I would be very interested in the pure gliding performance of these 'wings'...
Thanks for this update!

-Martin

[x-surfer]

That is awesome!
What I like the most about this ida is the fact that it shows very nicely that there ARE some natural gliders in the very low reynoldy number range (small wing chord and slow flying)... I would be very interested in the pure gliding performance of these 'wings'...
Thanks for this update!

-Martin

:D This just in:
video of walkalong butterfly (http://www.geocities.com/walkalongbutterfly/wgbutterflyvideo.html)
The important flight characteristic for ease of flight as a walkalong glider is a slow descent rate rather than a good glide ratio. The butterflies, properly trimmed, decend at about 2.5seconds/meter of altitude or slower. For good response to turning inputs they need washout angle in the wings.

[x-surfer]

Three videos of the Jumbo Walkalong glider in flight:

Once around the room then trouble strikes when the glider flies through the down wash from an HVAC vent. Flying the 50" jumbo walkalong glider. (http://www.geocities.com/xsurfergroup/jumbovideo9.html)

Next up:

video of jumbo flight- short straight and level, crash into wall (http://www.geocities.com/xsurfergroup/jumbovideo8.html)


And Finally...

There are two vents to worry about in this room. The stalls result from the glider encountering wind shear from each vent. The 3rd encounter proves to taxing and ends the flight. (http://www.geocities.com/xsurfergroup/jumbovideo7.html)

... so go forth and procreate!!!! (http://www.geocities.com/xsurfergroup/jumbowg)

[saucerguy]

I would never have thought of it, this concept is a must do in my book, have some EPS foam on hand, saw the vid, that's all I need to work with, perhaps someone might pair it up with an RC car, or better yet, an rc plane to take this bad boy to the next level.

[x-surfer]

I would never have thought of it, this concept is a must do in my book, have some EPS foam on hand, saw the vid, that's all I need to work with, perhaps someone might pair it up with an RC car, or better yet, an rc plane to take this bad boy to the next level.

I've been working on the many different designs of walkalong gliders, the jumbo and walkalong butterflies, but not much thought has gone into different ways of moving the paddle. Nice thinking.

Phil "The X-Surfer"

[Flyingwingbat1]

I like your stuff, Phil. I'm thinking of a new, multi-prop walkalong glider ( 4 sets of contrarotating props), plus some "stealth" models. To take it to the extreme, I could wear all black and use an air deflector shaped like a stealth plane, too, hehe. Also, there's some extremely small stick-on LED's available, only .2 g each, available in red, orange, and green. They're at djaerotech.com, I don't know any other vendors for them yet.

[x-surfer]

I like your stuff, Phil.
I really like your stuff. I've really taken to the stand you showed me so gliders are held in the takeoff position and lift off from the paddle. The last glider which hasn't been outfitted is the jumbo. This is a very important part of the demonstration as it shows how a plane lifts off when sufficient airspeed is achieved: However, it is still better to handlaunch the gliders for new pilots as it is tricky to transition the glider from takeoff position to full flight mode.

The butterflies are especially impressive when they take off from the paddle. It also spares them damage from handling too much.

[Flyingwingbat1]

I don't use the stands on the paddle anymore. Instead, I use partially stripped twist-tie wires for the noseweight. The unstripped part provides area for taping to the wing, and the bare wire nose is bent down to prop the wing up. This way the glider can lift off and land most anywhere on the paddle. The stands helped a lot when I was first learning to launch and fly my micro walkalong gliders (1.5" span or less). The stands aren't necessary anymore in my case, but I'm glad you found the idea useful.

[x-surfer]

I'll have to try the stand on the glider method of flying. It must work well for some airplanes.

PHil

[Flyingwingbat1]

Hey, if you're going to add noseweight to a glider, it might as well do double-duty, right? School's taking up most of my time, I'm hoping to get around to making some gliders this coming weekend, and doing some tests in the week after that.

[Flyingwingbat1]

pics of some new walkalong gliders w/ props.

[Fishbone4u]

Aerogel samples for sale.

http://www.unitednuclear.com/aerogel.htm

Oh- yeah. Cutting the sheets to 1/8th thickness planks is no problem. I do that already. You said you get depron from a source? Expensive?

Do you know this Terry Sweeney person, or are they on the web? When did you speak of aerogel? I've seen and held the stuff. It's pretty neat.

Next week perhaps I'll cut some sheets of 1/16th thick foam and give it a whirl.

Dean@steelheadproducts.com

[orni-freak]

hey x surfer, do the butterflies have dihedral? or an airfoil? I have been trying to make foam models of the butterflies. The bi-plane was successful with the foam, but whenever you needed to turn, the butterfly would still fly level, even with the rectangular paddle was turned vertical and that whole side was under one wing! Any ideas why?

[x-surfer]

hey x surfer, do the butterflies have dihedral? or an airfoil? I have been trying to make foam models of the butterflies. The bi-plane was successful with the foam, but whenever you needed to turn, the butterfly would still fly level, even with the rectangular paddle was turned vertical and that whole side was under one wing! Any ideas why?

Successful butterflies have not much dihedral but do have a slight washout angle to each wing. Real Butterflies naturally have a slight airfoil and turbulators on the leading edges of the wings. The washout angle assures the wingtips' angle of attack is lower so an increase in the angle of attack will produce lift instead of more stall turbulence. One way to increase the angle of attack at the wing root is to bend the aft wings (a pencil can be used to shape the wing) so there is increased forward angle of attack and up elevator aft.

The current technique is to place the butterfly on its back on a piece of foam. A strip of paper is slipped between the fore and aft wings so that only the forward wings are held flat against the foam. Next the pencil is slipped under the aft wings so only the aft wings are bent. Instructions (http://www.instructables.com/id/Monarch-Butterfly-Walkalong-Glider/) made earlier show both forward and aft wings being bent over the pencil (or wire).

Walkalong Butterflies without enough washout angle do have the control problems you describe. But if the butterfly is trimmed for fast flight the resulting airframe will not be as agile. Here is a video of a butterfly trimmed for too fast an airspeed:a video of a butterfly trimmed for too fast an airspeed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huVd3UNlT5c). Here is the same butterfly trimmed for slower flight:butterfly trimmed for slower flight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWopzYrHCQA). Hope this starts to answer your question.

[Decnav]

Aerogel samples for sale.

http://www.unitednuclear.com/aerogel.htm



United Nuclear has alot of fun stuff. I have ordered their europium salt (glo powder) and the green stuff glows very bright. They even have Nitinol (muscle) wire!

Their formula for smoke bombs is awesome. They used to have a complete rundown for making fireworks, but in this climate of terrorism fear, the govt made him take it down. All this terrorisim crap seems like the commie witch hunts from the McCarthy days.

On a side note, Bob Lazar (the owner of UN) has an interesting life story. Some of the "kooky" things he said in the past have come to light, so maby there is something to his story

[steelhead]

Hey XSURFER-

Any plans for that Genesis Flying wing around your site? I just saw it in the pics section on the website. It caught my eye and I thought it would be fun.

That ZERO fighter looks friggen sweet too!

By the way- I've found more and more people remembering hearing the words WALKALONG GLIDER now, so maybe all your time and effort is working out!

Dean

[x-surfer]

Hey XSURFER-

Any plans for that Genesis Flying wing around your site? I just saw it in the pics section on the website. It caught my eye and I thought it would be fun.

That ZERO fighter looks friggen sweet too!

By the way- I've found more and more people remembering hearing the words WALKALONG GLIDER now, so maybe all your time and effort is working out!

Dean
Hi Dean,
Is this the genesis design you saw? I also include the designs for the Zero. Other designs at:
http://pages.google.com/edit/xsurferdude/daviddesigns

thanks for your interest!

[steelhead]

Yeah- thats the Genesis I was talking about.

Thanks for the link to0 that plan page- I hadnt seen that page yet. Any idea on wherabouts for the Genesis?

THANKS!

Dean

[rockyabq]

I've had fun with these Wind Rider gliders:
http://www.windrider.com.hk/product.asp?id=132

I'm still at the "big piece of cardboard" stage though. Typically, I'll remove the plastic parts that are supplied to change the CG (a pair of discs that rotate fore and aft on a screw) and replace that weight with a short piece of paper clip taped just under the center of the leading edge.

They're great to take to our indoor flight sessions and give away to the kids there that are interested.

--Rocky

[x-surfer]

I've had fun with these Wind Rider gliders:
http://www.windrider.com.hk/product.asp?id=132

I'm still at the "big piece of cardboard" stage though. Typically, I'll remove the plastic parts that are supplied to change the CG (a pair of discs that rotate fore and aft on a screw) and replace that weight with a short piece of paper clip taped just under the center of the leading edge.

They're great to take to our indoor flight sessions and give away to the kids there that are interested.

--Rocky

Walkalong gliding with a "big piece of cardboard" is a great way to learn. I believe this commercially available walkalong glider is called the Windrider and is well designed. There are sites discribing ballast modifications to the windrider (http://www.geocities.com/x_surfer2004/windriderballast) and flying it with hands only:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIJhSVKp27U

[rockyabq]

Awesome hand flying. Love the corner turning. :)

I've always left the two plastic pieces that snap in from top and bottom that preserve the dihedral angle. I'll try your paperclip mod with them removed too.

Thanks,
Rocky

[BEX]

These gliders are awesome , ive been reading some and tried it with paper planes while i try to source some depron or something. Please keep on posting.

[x-surfer]

These gliders are awesome , ive been reading some and tried it with paper planes while i try to source some depron or something. Please keep on posting.

The least expensive and easiest to fly is the tumblewing paper airplane (http://www.instructables.com/id/Walkalong-Glider-Made-from-Phone-Book-Paper/). This design will allow you to perfect your piloting skills. Piloting skills also require finding still air to fly in. The tubmlewing can be flown in a small area (this tumblewing is made from red tissue paper):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_8GeKy3n_g
Instructions for controlling the tumblewing in flight (http://sites.google.com/site/controllableslopesoaring/Home/tumblewingpaperairplane/howtofly) .

[BEX]

I tried the tumblewing and it worked ok but then I built this one and I am getting along with it . It took some time to get the cg just right but now I can keep it in the air nicely , just have to work on the turns now.

Granted it is a bit fast , but I can keep up at a nice brisk walking pace.

[x-surfer]

I tried the tumblewing and it worked ok but then I built this one and I am getting along with it . It took some time to get the cg just right but now I can keep it in the air nicely , just have to work on the turns now.

Granted it is a bit fast , but I can keep up at a nice brisk walking pace.

The key to turning is to prevent tip stalls when you want to roll into a turn. Most paper airplane designs have no wing washout angle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washout_(aviation)) . Washout in the wings really is not necessary for a paper airplane unless you want to fly it as a walkalong glider (controllable slope soaring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controllable_slope_soaring)). I just finished instructions for an Indoor Paper Airplane Walkalong Glider (http://www.instructables.com/id/Indoor_Paper_Airplane_Walkalong_Glider/). Check out the maneuverability:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyDbHH5QMdA

[x-surfer]

I tried the tumblewing and it worked ok but then I built this one and I am getting along with it . It took some time to get the cg just right but now I can keep it in the air nicely , just have to work on the turns now.

Granted it is a bit fast , but I can keep up at a nice brisk walking pace.

There is a paper airplane design called the omniwing which has nice washout angle in the wings by using tape to get twist into each wing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MI9mo-eAls
Do you think you could use the same technique to get washout angle in your wings?

[rockyabq]

X-Surfer, your video of you crashing your way through the house with your card-table-sized piece of cardboard is hilarious. My wife would kill me. :)

Love it.

Rocky

[Robster]

Has anybody ever tried attaching a big square piece of cardboard to an RC car or truck and controlling a walkalong glider that way? Most likely very difficult or impossible, but fun to think about controlling a land and air vehicle at the same time, and spare us lazy folks from having to walk behind it :D

Rob

[Airboatflyingshp]

Nope but have you seen one of these ;) :D

[x-surfer]

Has anybody ever tried attaching a big square piece of cardboard to an RC car or truck and controlling a walkalong glider that way? Most likely very difficult or impossible, but fun to think about controlling a land and air vehicle at the same time, and spare us lazy folks from having to walk behind it :D

Rob
You'd be an awsome driver if you could pull that one off!!

[x-surfer]

Nope but have you seen one of these ;) :D
Have seen guys getting inflatable water sleds airborne but not one of these. Where'd you find this rarity?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYyu7n1rlKY

[BEX]

Do you think you could use the same technique to get washout angle in your wings?

I should , i am going to try it, I did it with a coro version once and the results were good.

I built an omniwing just so will be able to remember how and it works great.

[Flyingwingbat1]

Wow! I didn't know this thread was still alive! Hi Phil, I didn't get a chance to make your paper walkalong yet; homework, sleep, etc come first. I pulled out some of my old plank wings and plank-jags to fly today. I forgot the nice handling of a well-trimmed plank with fins. I REALLY want a camcorder to tape walklong flying exploits, but an unwilling to purchase one until my expenses (school) are below my income (er...low :o )

[x-surfer]

Wow! I didn't know this thread was still alive! Hi Phil, I didn't get a chance to make your paper walkalong yet; homework, sleep, etc come first. I pulled out some of my old plank wings and plank-jags to fly today. I forgot the nice handling of a well-trimmed plank with fins. I REALLY want a camcorder to tape walklong flying exploits, but an unwilling to purchase one until my expenses (school) are below my income (er...low :o )

I hear you. Well, at least I don't have to fork over membership in a gym:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Mfcz2Qpw4

[BEX]

That sure is an long coridor. That plane is very stable in the air , I am still trying with my delta.

[x-surfer]

That sure is an long coridor. That plane is very stable in the air , I am still trying with my delta.

It is made from phone book paper:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Indoor_Paper_Airplane_Walkalong_Glider/

I'm finding the bigest difference between most paper airplane designs and paper airplane designs which can be successfully flown by controllable slope soaring (http://sites.google.com/site/controllableslopesoaring/) is in the extent of wing washout angle (http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/dynamics/q0055.shtml). To get nice handling characteristics as a walkalong glider, more wing washout is needed to prevent wing tip stalls (http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/hfarticles/const/v1-4-10.html) when banking (rolling) for a turn. Does your Delta have enough wing washout angle?

This just in: florist waxed tissue paper is even lighter and holds its shape nicely.

[x-surfer]

Here's an awsome paper airplane design with the added benefit it can be flown with your hands!

The inventor introduces and flies the Jagwing Derivative design:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbkzAKi3V0I

Here the design is maneuvered with comment from the pilot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGZN1-diDjU

[BEX]

Awesome X surfer. What is the nose boom made off? rolled up phonebook paper?

No my delta didnt have enough Washout. I tried it again , but could not get it symetrical . I got caught up in a new build and left it for a while, but ill try it again now. Ill try to get some wax paper and try the one you used in the endless corridor first , I think I am jumping the gun a bit.

[Robster]

X-surfer,

Truely great stuff! Years ago, I used to fly a walkalong tumble wing through the corridors of where I worked. Nowadays, arthritic hip limits my movement, so I'm pursuing a different avenue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4HDJ1uc9QA

Rob

[Flyingwingbat1]

What is that? Looks like a tiny tissue scrap to me. I tried something similar, waving cardboard back and forth ABOVE a floating seed fluff to keep it airborne. In this case, suck > blow.

[x-surfer]

Awesome X surfer. What is the nose boom made off? rolled up phonebook paper?


The nose boom is quite clever, it is a sliver of a plastic soda straw taped to the paper wing.


No my delta didnt have enough Washout. I tried it again , but could not get it symetrical . I got caught up in a new build and left it for a while, but ill try it again now. Ill try to get some wax paper and try the one you used in the endless corridor first , I think I am jumping the gun a bit.

You may want to try the tumblewing design (http://sites.google.com/site/controllableslopesoaring/Home/tumblewingpaperairplane), nice and slow, which is the most forgiving and easy to trim design:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_8GeKy3n_g