New Tiny Helicopter Category- Bumble Bee

[Mario]

To the Readers and moderators of his forum, perhaps there should be a Sub- Micro and Palm size Heli Section, besides Micro-Helis, for new and smaller developments.

I have been working on a number of products that would fall into these two categories and would like to keep them separate from the much larger Micro-Helis. I am sure there will be more developments by others, as well, that would keep such sections interesting.

In 2001 the House FLY series was borned to kick off a new "Ultra-Lightweight Sub-Micro" category of electric tiny helis. This, was followed by the "Palm Size" developments to promote the miniaturization of the elecric helicopter and expand interests and growth in these hobby areas. Similar independent interests have evolved recently and it looks like more and more people are catching on to the fun in building and flying ultra-miniature helicopter models.

I have been busy myself with some new MIA Micro Helicopter products and have developed two new Sub-Micro Helicopter kits: The Bumble Bee and Falcon , to be officially released second week of September 2003.

Here is a sneak preview of The Bumble Bee and Falcon. I will post more on the the new MIA Micro-FLIGHTweb site which will be up, also, in September 2003.

Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[massimo]

Hi to all,

Dear Dear Mario A.,
I want to say thanks to you for your beautifulst job that you make for we.





Best Regards

[Luxor]

Mario, I just have to say I will believe it when I see it!

I read your post and agree to a point.

Wes-Technik is offering the Helistar, palm sized heli.
Ikarus has produced a collective Piccolo.
MS has done the same.

All taken affect AFTER the supposed release of the Falcon.

Looks like your TWO steps behind.

Again, I will believe it when I see it!

[Astro30]

I hope it does make it at your eta, that would be pretty cool...

got a vid on it yet?

[Wright Flyer]

September which year?

[Mario]

Here is the Falcon Sub-Micro. This will also be available September 2003.

The trick to making these helis look so good was a different design approach than that taken with conventional micro helis. Thanks to todays battery technology which is lighter and more powerful than in past years I have been able to design these helis with some nice features which were not practical before.

I've been told that The Bumble Bee and Falcon helis look more like larger RC helicopters, very robust and appear much larger than they are in real life. This is true, because they were designed with large heli features in mind. From the photos, I am sure most modelers will be able to tell right away these features, so I will not elaborate on them. Just keep in mind they are both Sub-Micro even though they may not look like they are, the Falcon is the same size as the Bumble Bee.

Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[Mario]

.....As a modeler, one of the things I enjoy, is the ability to set up my helicopters with various accessories and clothing, so I also created a whole line of additional accessories for MIA's Sub-Micros, as well as other Sub-Micros to come. Here are some Sporty strong "lexan" body options that are available for the Sub-Micro heli, come September 2003.


Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[massimo]

Hi to all,


Dear Dear Mario A.

you know that I love the sub micro rc hely ... I wanted to ask you which are the dimensions (in cm)of the new "Bumble Bee" . I ask you to show other photos of this yours palm size hely.

Thanks in advanced

Best Regards

[JordanKBowles]

I'm glad to see the new helis any ideas on price and what electronics sould be used?

[Lucas in Alaska]

Mario,

Thanks for posting some teasers!!! I would like to know the rotor dia, weight and electronics needed for the 2 new helis and also are they FP or CP.

Thanks

Lucas

[EricCartman]

What happened to the cp flybarrless head and the old canopy on your old palm heli?

[Mario]

More details will be at the new web site.

These sub micros are FP with CP as an option, they use any type of micro RC equipment, so users are not locked to specific equipment from one specific vendor. People like to have options, be separates or all-in-one boards, 2 servo FP or 3 servo CCPM configs, so both sub-micro designs take all this into account.

My favorite set-up has alway been using separates and making my own control boards from 2 Castle Creations ESCs (Pixie 7) and GWS MPG-10 gyro without the case. My fovorite receiver is a simple basic Cirrus or Hitec or GWS 4 channel for simplicity with a basic Focus 4 Transmitter. I fly one of the FP versions without mixing and also without much of the fuss associated with programmable transmitters. This I would reccommend to anyone on a limited simple budget.

On the other hand, on a more eleaborate CP version, I use a JR or Hitec programble transmitters with programmable mixing and CCPM features, a 6 channel receiver. This I would reccommend for advanced flyers on a much generous but also more complex budget.

For anyone in between the basic and high end budget examples, I would reccommend using the FP starter kit with an airplane trasnmitter with "progamable mixing" using main throttle as the master and rudder channel as the slave channels. The rest of the equipmetn can be very basic and inexpensive as you wish.

Rotor Diameter: 330mm Bumble Bee, 368mm Falcon
Flying Weight: Approximately 107 grams give or take depending on flight equipment selected. Obviously you want the RC equipmetn to be lightweight and small but you need not go overboard (i.e. westeck servos or some dime size receiver ) for a simple fun set up.

RC Equipment: Any RC equipmet used for micros including Piccoboard, Hummimboard, Dual Esc, any micro, sub micro servos, receivers, gyros.
Flight Battery: Li-Pol 11.1 volts 3C discharge or higher suggested.
Training Tethered?: 10 ft umbilical training cord with 9-12 volt 2-3 amp power supply suggested

Price: $150-$175 (subject to change) with motors, pre-assembled mechanics and finished blades.

3 Step Approach:
1) Install LG, Boom, Blades (5 minutes)
2) Install RC equipment and Setup your Transmitter (about 15-30 min depending on user knowledge and skills with RC equipment setup)
3) Power, Fly and Enjoy the New Sub-Micro heli flying thrill!

Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[EricCartman]

So why are you producing another housefly size heli.no offense meant but is it because many people hated the housefly?

[EricCartman]

also what about your ahem palm size heli the 6 inch one

[Trizza]

Hi Mario - I love the canopy on the Bumble Bee! Looks very mean. If I were to get one it'd definitely be that one.

Can you give us some more pics? eg - nude, closeups, all that. What motors does it use?

[darmar]

$150-$175

haha, is that a joke?

put on it > Made in China < and lower the price.

[Glenn Cain]

i think submicro would be the true class of home flying helicopters,
while micro would be suitable for indoor hall or multistorey carpark or some place which allows mre power than submicro but still convinient. thus logo and the rest are field or 'competetion' machine. great now the structure of the rc heli market has solidified lol

[EricCartman]

[EricCartman]

[Erez-E]

You guys are vicious! Hey Mario, I hear you will be at the NEAT fair. Is this when you will be releasing your new products? See you there.

[massimo]

Hi to all,

Dear Mario A. ,

I believed that you had creat a real Palm Size rc Hely...:(
but I evidently have mistaken myself

Rotor Diameter: 330mm Bumble Bee, 368mm Falcon





... This dimensions are not of a Palm Size hely :(

Dear Mario you have blocked your plan "Palm Size rc Hely"???


Best Regards

Thanks in advanced for reply

[EricCartman]

vicious hmm palm size helis #3

[EricCartman]

[Steve McBride]

Let's try and keep it on topic ok guys? If you have problems with a vendor, we have a forum for that - "Vendors".

Thanks for understanding.

Steve M

[Mario]

We at MIA try to make a lot of neat stuff for the hobby, but I have to split my time to cater to a lot of things that people want and that I want to bring out to the market too. Part of my job is trying to find a happy medium between what people want and what I also want to do. A little give and take from both manufacturer and customer can go a long way. Sometimes things are not perfect but the end goal is to do our best.

Glad to hear your responses. I am always happy to know people are always looking for new and exciting stuff and sometimes the old stuff too. I have promised myself to try to go out and meet you folks out in the hobby shows and fairs, as it permits with my working schedule.

Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[EricCartman]

dont do so much at one time then evryone only want the nano and palm heli from you.and that you change the hf stock kit to have redesigned blades

[EricCartman]

[Fred Bronk]

I am moving this thread to Vendors and merging it with MARIOS other thread.


MARIO, STOP DOUBLE POSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[Mario]

Fred,

Any thoughts on the first part of his thread regarding a section for Sub-Micros and Palm Size helis?

[Astro30]

Your new helis look very intriguing, I can't wait to see them, especially in flight, will you be able to post any videos soon?

My opinion on the thread thing would be that I don't think there's enough of them on the market to make a seperate forum on palm size, I think it'll be cool in the micro forum until it gets to the point where there's so much talk about them, they need their own...

[Mario]

Reminds me when I first started to talk about all the wonderful things and fun people could have with a "micro heli" years before the making of such models and when there were no specific clasifications or sections, look now, most everyone knows about the micro helis and clones have come on also to form part of this new fun and an pre-established "micro heli" section.

Something tells me though, that in the near future there will be specific sections on forums like these aimed at the Sub-Micro and Palm Size helis also. Meanwhile, Yahoo Groups (microhelicopters, palm-size, DIY House FLY) are ones I established already and dedicated to the miniaturization of the rc helicopters and for those that want to form part of fun with these new and intriguing categories of ultralight tiny helicopters. There you will find photos and information on related topics until the rest of the woprld catches up with such new visions and products.

My vision and quest continues to be the creation , promotion and expasion of smaller, more fascinating tiny helicopters, it is an ongoing passion of mine, please don't ask me to stop here.:)

My new web site will have a good selection of things and information that everyone interested in these types of models is looking for, both for die-hard modelers as well as distributors and even my competitors which are always contacting me anonomously and trying to find out what has been up my sleeve :)

Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[Astro30]

Hey Mario, sorry for going off topic here... I checked out your site and tried the email a few days ago and I didn't get a response, I was just wondering if your MIA retro landing gear will fit a Hummingbird with no mods and how wide the top area where the battery would go is? I'm trying to see if it will fit the lipo batteries I want to try...

Thanks

[Mario]

Astro,

Our Email Has changed . We are no longer at MIADsgns@aol.com
We'll post new Email on the new web site.

You can mount any battery on the MIA LG micro heli retrofit either under or at the front of the battery parallel support rods which are 9/16" appart, cl-cl from rod to rod. The MIA LG Retrofit was designed for the Robin 280/300 micro helis but they were adapted for the Piccolo because a lot of Piccolo users were having trouble with the carbon struts coming appart in a hard landing.

If the hummingbird shares similarities in frame strut mounting, and I believe they do because the hummingbird is a compilation of Piccolo parts with a Robin style frame, you can probably use it also.
http://www.helihobby.com/assets/images/retrofitLG.jpg

This photo at Helihobby.com shows the struts weith the exception Sean has the front and rear molded struts mountings reversed, the one with the center large whole should go on the back of the Piccolo frame's boom mount.

Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[Astro30]

Shucks, it doesn't look like it'll fit, on the hummingbird, the strut mounts are connected to the frame. Yours looks like it comes with it's own mounts yea?

man that gear looks like it has more than enough room for the TP pack I wanted to run too.

[Mario]

Astro,

See my other post on G10 Frames.

Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[Mario]

Falcon SUB-MICRO , looks like a big bird but it is actually SMALLER than any micro.


Mario I. Arguello

www.micro-flight.com

[jeremys]

Mario,

Wow, looks like this is for real. Congrats when this comes out. A few comments on the new webpage:

1. falcon rotor dia in mm is wrong, i believe
2. link on pic next do "indoor-outdoor" doesnt appear to work
3. "more smaller"??? creative english, i guess...
4. no link to dreamhobbies on dist. page

other than that, looks great. so, what are the differences between the falcon and bb? just main rotor and canopy?

-jeremy

[Mario]

Jeremys,

We are expanding and tweaking the pages. Will look into those small glitches.

I wanted to make the September date, as promissed, as a start for our viewers.

We are in the process of uploading "more larger" details :), yes, creative English, I guess. I didn't want to simply say "smaller", because I wanted readers to note that our helis are "much smaller" than anything that MIA has done in the past, with the exception of some designs which are mentioned in our web site's other pages. If "more smaller" reads too annoying, we can have it changed, no prob.

The difference between the Bumble Bee and Falcon is the frame, the rotor diamer and the body they come with. Mechanics are the same for both helis.

Flight characteristics are slightly different but this is only due to difference in rotor diameter.

I purposely did not spiff up the canopies in the flight shots because I wanted people to focus on the rotor and the way the heli just sits in mid air buszzing smoothly. I think the flight shots in our pages show this well. People can always spiff up thier model canopies with paint and decals these will be availble separately.

Many Thanks,
Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[EricCartman]

good job mario you're living up to your word unlike before

[EricCartman]

is it sep. 15 yet?

[jeremys]

Originally posted by EricCartman
is it sep. 15 yet?


I think so.

Has anyone talked to dreamhobbies or helihobby?

jeremy

[EricCartman]

i looked at the sites i think
slys hobby den is supposed to have it too

[allesg]

Hi,

I'm just a newbie here.

I have an observation.

Mario has more clear and useful postings than almost anyone
except a helicopter tutorial I found here.

I've learned more by looking for and reading his postings
than anything else I could have done in the same amount of time
AND I was impressed with all of it.

I don't know Mario. I've never talked to him or even sent him an
email, BUT I can tell you this.

Mario truely loves his work and he is trying to push the
technology envelope forward and prices down for the benefit of all. It's crystal clear. You can see it in his work.

From what I can see, the guy is obviously talented, appears to be
doing the work of several people and he is is trying to help us.

Anyone else out there launced an entire new market segment all
by themselves lately?

Happy Flying!

Gary

[EricCartman]

well now this is a flame war;)i have to pay for the cp flybarless aluminum head,the aluminum cp swash etc. when according to his posts was supposed to be included in his next hf kit
(once i find a nice motor gear combo for my 3 in. heli im going into buisness)

[jeremys]

Yeah, my guess is that we won't hear anything until he ships. His next message would be "MIA just shipped a bunch of birds and they will be avail. at our distributers soon". kinda like his last one except that he DID ship.

If he had shipped already, I would think he would have posted. So, if I am correct, it's at least about a week or two before we'll be able to install servos on our very own bumble bee.

jeremy

[EricCartman]

hooray it isnt september!mario broke his promise!

[jeremys]

yeah, I guess he did as far as bumble/falcon.

but, i think the g10s shipped. correct me if I am wrong, but the distributors websites have them in stock??

[EricCartman]

i think im gonna get a g10 frame for free now i just cant decide which one hmmmmm

[johntbyrne]

Eric,

Looks like you will probably win. Anyway back on topic. Before we jump to conclusions maybe the kits did ship but the vendors are checking them out or maybe there was something wrong with them, or ......

I think I'm not going to say he didn't tell the truth till a vendor responds.

Direct question to Helihobby and Dream, did you get kits shipped to you yet and if so when did they ship?

[Mario]

First batch shipped, just be patient with our vendors as I am sure they are building the kits for detail photos and to be able to describe the kits better on their web sites.

All Kits shipped to our dealers, have the G10 frames with the pre-assembled rotors, frames and blades but they do require minor assembly to complete the kits along with the installation of RC equipment, and setup typical of an ARF, kit.

BB and Falcon parts! parts! parts!, we are also shipping these next week to our dealers.

Thanks Again,

Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[EricCartman]

upgrade parts?when?why are you making me pay extra?you said the next hf would have a g10 frame and alum cp swash and alum flybarless head

[jeremys]

yeah, I'll need plenty of parts as evident in all the broken HB tail rotors on my kitchen counter.

jeremy

[EricCartman]

y didnt you just get a $20 cf one?

[jeremys]

slys got some of their shipment in.

you can order a BB or falcon canopy on their website....



no complete kets yet though...

[EricCartman]

no kits at all yet
mario owes me a bb cause i made a bet with him(jk)

[EricCartman]

nither do i so pm em

[jeremys]

I PMd sean from helihobby like 3 wks ago on this and have yet to get a response.. and hes been online since then.. dunno, i dont think everyone reads this forum and maybe they are busy

[EricCartman]

email(my email is down and like you i pmed him)

[EricCartman]

for the designer series page could you put retail pices?

[jefferyj]

Heres some new pictures of the MIA Falcon. Im working on getting it together and flying it and i will post the turn outs on the little heli.

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[jefferyj]

Heres another picture of the rotor head.

Regards, Jeff

[EricCartman]

flybar looks kinda weird and i like your offer"Get a FREE sample from Franks Candles and Scents with Every Order over $25"(jk)

[EricCartman]

blades look weird too and any metal parts?

[jefferyj]

Heres the frame of the Bumble Bee


Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[jefferyj]

Originally posted by EricCartman
flybar looks kinda weird and i like your offer"Get a FREE sample from Franks Candles and Scents with Every Order over $25"(jk)

The blades are kinda square where they go into the rotorhead but other then that they look sweet.The swash has a bearing and the main shaft is steel. It also has bearings in both ends and the tail drive also has bearings the design on the falcon frame i really like alot the tail boom is held in by a screw.

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[jefferyj]

Heres a over head shot of a Piccolo Pro and the bumble bee.Sorry for the picture its a little fuzzy i will get a better picture tomorrow.

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[jeremys]

Jeff,

When will either be available for purchase? website has had "coming soon" for a while..

Jeremy

[jefferyj]

check now we have sold alot already and we have more on order dont know how long they will last.

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[EricCartman]

when you getting replacement parts?

[jefferyj]

We should have them in this week or next week. The landing skids are very durable and will not break so the only thing i see breaking on this heli is the main blades or the tail blades. I took the landing skids and pushed them into the table and they sprung right back up.

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[Mario]

MIA dealers will have replacement parts next week.

MIA

[EricCartman]

well i trust jeff but mario,just like"they'll have em by sep. 15,then sep."and my favorite for the latest roughed housefly-december(and im still waiting)

[jefferyj]

Sold Out More Coming Soon:D

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[nolasco]

Sold out!!!:eek: :mad: :(

When did you start selling them? All I have seen are "Coming Soon" signs.


Jun Nolasco

[EricCartman]

today i think

[EricCartman]

MARIO!I want the old the better looking and the aluminum.Why,why did you have to take it all away WHY?
(still waitibg for the latest roughed housefly)

[jeremys]

Originally posted by nolasco
Sold out!!!:eek: :mad: :(

When did you start selling them? All I have seen are "Coming Soon" signs.


Jun Nolasco

yeah, tiny window where you could purchase. I ordered and got an email receipt that says my order was shipped. Then 3 hrs later I got one that says it was being processed. boggle!?!

anyways, unless these guys are junk, I think Mario has a hit on his hands. the forums will be full of bumble bee and falcon posts.

jeremy

[mrfish]

Hi,

Always glad to see another original helicopter design on the market.

However can someone please tell me exactly what advantages this model has over something like a cut-down Piccolo (Moth) as as far as I can see the equipment used to drive the helicopter is about the same, meaning the weight and therefore performance is likely to be very similar.

For example I could cut down a Piccolo to something like moth size, glue in some expensive WES servos, add a lightweight receiver, gyro and some smaller capacity Li cells to give a cheaper model likely to perform similarly, with a much better parts availability.

Any comments?

Andrew

[jefferyj]

Yes you can do the same thing with the piccolo but the motor still stays the same and the rotorhead and the design is still the same. On the sub micro helicopter it is designed to be a sub micro everything on the sub micro is made smaller and stronger. I own a moth piccolo and also the falcon and there is a big difference in the both of them weight wize. Sub micro's can be flow in a smaller area like a 10x10 or 8x8 with no problems and flight times are alot higher.Head speeds are also higher so the helicopter is more stable in flights.

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[jefferyj]

Originally posted by johnbyrne
Jeff

hmmmmm, You have time to take money but not enough time to answer some simple questions here such as when you will get the kits. Thank you for being so very helpful.

I placed my order with MIA for more kits when he ships them i will have them in 3 days.We get 6 of each helicopters in. We had them in one day and they sold out.Thats about all the info i can give you on when more will be available

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[jeremys]

I don't see what the big deal is.. Obviously, Mario was a little late. Looks like things will be tough as demand far outpaces supply at this point.

But, I somewhat understand your frustration. The Vendors don't seem too forthcoming with information.

Jeremy

[jefferyj]

I have finally tried the falcon i will tell you it flys very well and very stable in flight the controls are very sensative.I am flying on a Umbilical Cord with a 8 cell pack and my flight times are around 10 to 12 minutes on a 700mah. I did crash it pretty hard into the ground and the head flew off and i was like noooooo. But you know what it snaped right back on with no problems and the tail blades went flying off and i just snapped them back on and took off again.I will tell you mario you have done it. Its a great little heli.I will post more info when i fly it more. Im using a standard piccoboard with a 6 channel micro receiver and 2 sub micro 100 servos.I bet on 3x250 Etecs flight time will be well over 20 minutes.I will have a video soon on this little bugger.

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[jefferyj]

Yes the Falcon does fly heres the videos to prove it.
http://www.rcsites.net/jefferyj/falcon.mpg
http://www.rcsites.net/jefferyj/falcon2.mpg

Regards,Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

New Products coming soon for sub micro helicopters from Sly's Hobby Den

[jefferyj]

Ya im going to trie her with some li-polys like 3x250. The cord was holding me back but im working on a new umbilical cord for sub micro helicopters so it will be lighter and not as thick.

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[johnbyrne]

I'd love to see the video when you get it. Looks like with the Li that she may be a good flyer. She was actually tilted to the side I believe due to the chord so it may be kind of amazing that you could control her at all, suggesting a stable platform.

Did you get any spare parts yet? I'm still scared to death of parts from MIA and hope you can get and maintain a good stock. Please keep me posted. I stated this before and it has nothing to do with you directly but some of us really want to know, please let us know when you got the first run of kits and when they shipped out from Mario. As stated, nothing to do with you other than you are the only one who can answer this particular question.

Thanks
John

[jefferyj]

We will be stocking parts for the sub micros. I will let you know when we get them in and thanks for checking us out.The camara was tilted to one side so the heli looked like it was flying that way i will get a better video when i have more time.

Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[jeremys]

yeah, first time I watched it, I thought it flew funny, then realized the camera was tilted.

Like john, I'm praying this isn't a repeat of before with parts. I'm not that good yet, and could possibly break stuff. But, if the attention to detail in the kit is any indication, things will be okay. I am pretty impressed with the kit so far.

jeremy

[jefferyj]

Like i said before i have crashed the helicopter several times hard and the only thing that happened was the head popped off and just snapped it back on.Im impressed with this little helicopter.


Regards, Jeff

www.slyshobbyden.net

[EricCartman]

all those aluminum upgrades were cool.to bad never figured out how to get them
still waiting for the "latest roughed housefly"

[johnbyrne]

Jeremy,

I wasn't talking about the slight camera tilt, I was talking about the heli being pulled from side to side like a pendulum. The cord is too big for this size bird but thats not a design fault. Not knocking heli.

Cheers
John

[Mario]

http://www.micro-flight.com/bb.htm

2 videos of the Bumble Bee. Goto web page and click on the video links. The video done in the morning has some espectacular footage of the BB flying stock.

Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com

[Paul5910]

So when will vendors have these bad boys in stock (again?)


Paul

[Mario]

Bad boys are in stock! Sly's and Helihobby.com have new shipement of goodies. BB and Falcon prebuilt available through Sly's. Parts also available! If they are out Cointact MIA direct.

If you have not viewed the new BB video here is its:
http://www.micro-flight.com/videos/Bumblebee2.wmv

Mario I. Arguello
www.micro-flight.com