New HL Ta-183 Huckebein

[PunkerTFC]

Wow, I'm suprised that no-one else has posted on this yet. new at HL: take a peek (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/ezone.htm) . Looks very nice, and the price isn't bad, $169.00 with installed speed 300 and fan. however, at 19 oz flying weight, a speed 300 seems a little underpowered, yes? In the video, it looks like it took a LONG time to get on step, probabally more than I'd be comfortable with. Does anyone have any first hand experience with this plane? Once my heli sells on ebay, if no one else has, maybe I'll buy it and post a review, I'm looking for a new (first) jet anyways.

Alek

[monkamarm2000]

looks cool, and yeah 300 seems kinda small but those things are bascially flying wings anyway. And hey at least I know the power fan version I'm flying will work cause I'm at way more power and less weight. I might have to scrape one of those up though for Mini AC or Hacker.

Barry

[PunkerTFC]

I suppose I could always buy it, and replace the 300 with a 280bb or a brushless once I get the money.

[Hiflyer]

I shot the video of the Huckebein at SEFF, it was about 90 degrees and no wind. With even a little head wind the sag pretty much goes away.

The provided Speed 300, flies the model well, as can be seen in the video.
The model can however be upgraded with a brushless with good results.
The 280BB can be used but you would have to increase the cell count to 10 to get the revs. This would require that lighter cells be used to keep the overall weight from getting too high.

The model handles very well, quick rolls, loop from a shallow dive and the flight times are 5-6 minutes with the 1100NiMh cells.

Mike Hines

[monkamarm2000]

looks like a cool litle bird. Whats the fan unit? Make, Diameter?

Barry

[PunkerTFC]

by the way, EAM says that this model in inbound, and they are selling it for $40 less. I'm wondering if that includes the fan and motor?

[PunkerTFC]

I have a question about the controls, it looks as if it's using "barn door" elevons, is that correct?

[PunkerTFC]

another quick question: does it have a cheater hole? I guess it probabally does, most of these small jets seem to, but I really really don't like cheater holes.

[bruff]

The 183 that EAM is showing is the RBC wood kit. The one Hobby Lobby is selling is an all foam kit from a different company. It has no cheater hole. Not all small jets required a cheater holes. The Flying Styro A-7 does not require one.
Bob

[AirX]

I looked at the Hobby Lobby web site and it looked exactly like the wemo microfan.

Eric B.

Originally posted by monkamarm2000
looks like a cool litle bird. Whats the fan unit? Make, Diameter?

Barry

[AirX]

I love this plane, it just looks like a toy. I dont like cheaters either but looking over the pics on the web site I did not see a cheater hole. Actually should not need it due to the straight thru intake.

Eric B.

Originally posted by PunkerTFC
another quick question: does it have a cheater hole? I guess it probabally does, most of these small jets seem to, but I really really don't like cheater holes.

[PunkerTFC]

yeah, I was gonna say the intake looks larger than the exhaust so it should be ok. I think that once my heli sells I am going to get one of these. The only modification I plan on making is writing in the pilots name. There was an excellent gentleman in our club who died a few years ago, he was a german pilot during world war two, and I can't think of a better way to honor him. He always gave me help and advice whenever I needed it, and he passed away while I was on a vacation so I never got the chance to thank him for it.

[centex pilot]

I know a couple of the other alfa models are reinforced for belly landings. How about this one? Anyone know? Would hate to have to tape up that paint job!

Steve

[monkamarm2000]

My 376 oz Huck last's fine with probond on the bottom.

Barry

[AirX]

Hey Barry how did the thinning of the Pro Bond come out as a skinning product. What was the mixture you ended up with.

Eric B.

[monkamarm2000]

I havn't found anything that works well enogh to thin it yet. Well more to the point mineral spirits thins it out fine but eats the foam. So on my huck I just brushed it on very thin on the bottom and it works very well. but too much will get heavy so I need to find something that works. This weekend I'm gonna try using Styrene Monomer, which thins epoxy very well and doesn't hurt foam. I just dont know how well the Probond will take to it. But just in case Idid find a brand thats a cheapo Probond alternative, while it isn't as strong as Probond it's much thinner. And Probond is usually too strong anyway. The other stuff is made by Elmers and it's called Ultimate Glue.

Barry

[Southern Soul]

Originally posted by PunkerTFC
by the way, EAM says that this model in inbound, and they are selling it for $40 less. I'm wondering if that includes the fan and motor?


The model EAM lists looks like a balsa kit. The one Hobby Lobby sells is an ARF foam model which is produced by Alfa Models in CZ.

[monkamarm2000]

$40 less I'll take it since I'd throw the fan and motor away anyway! think I got some ordering to do! lol

[PunkerTFC]

Ah, but keep in mind the one at EAM is just a wood kit, and the one at HL is a prefinished arf (and done very well, I think)

[U812]

Mike,

Any chance that Alfa will make it available without the engine and fan?

I know most of the guys ( me too ) will want to use their own gear. Higher, faster, you know the drill.

Thanks,

Steve

[AirX]

On the HL website the fan pictured as replacement looks like a Wemo Microfan or did I mistake.

Eric B.


http://www.hobby-lobby.com/ductfan.htm

[Ed Waldrep]

Yeah it's the same, a hobby shop here in town had the salamander package and it was a microfan. I guess hobby-lobby wants their name on it so people think it came from them, I guess it gets their name out there more for brand recognition. "Oh, this one is better, it says Hobby-Lobby on it!" That just confuses people.

[Hiflyer]

Ed Waldrep

>>Yeah it's the same, a hobby shop here in town had the salamander package and it was a microfan. I guess hobby-lobby wants their name on it so people think it came from them, I guess it gets their name out there more for brand recognition. "Oh, this one is better, it says Hobby-Lobby on it!" That just confuses people.<<

There is actually a bit more to it than that. You are correct that the fan is a Wem-O-Tec Micro Fan. However the fan and motor package for the Salamander includes a Speed 300 motor with a smooth shaft (regular Speed 300's have a splined shaft), connectors , wire and a fan collet drilled for a 2mm smooth shaft motor. The smooth shaft motor makes it far easier to get a vibration free performance from your fan unit. In that vibration robs power, we are recommending the product that our customers will most easily be successful with.

AirX

>>On the HL website the fan pictured as replacement looks like a Wemo Microfan or did I mistake.<<

At this time we do not have a replacement fan for the Ta-183. The fan in the model is a propriatery unit from Alfa Models. In that the fan is totally designed into the model I would recommend that the experimentation be limited to motor changes and perhaps battery experiments. Keeping in mind that the overall weight should remain at 15-19oz.

Steve

I know what you mean, but I don't think that Alfa will make it available that way.

centex pilot

>>I know a couple of the other alfa models are reinforced for belly landings. How about this one? Anyone know? Would hate to have to tape up that paint job!<<

Like the other models from Alfa, this one has a reinforced belly. As has been pointed out it does not have any cheater holes.

Mike Hines

[PunkerTFC]

No cheater holes! :D

[AirX]

Thanks for jumping in Mike, I love the little Huck... :)

Eric B.

[Atindra]

No cheater holes, ailerons (pushrods attached), elevator (pushrods attached), GREAT instructions, option to use MPJet 25 25/26 motor mentioned in the instructions. NEVER seen anything like this ARF, the Salamander is positively fragile when compared to this thing.

It has anhedral ! no wing fences...with an aerodynamic explanation in the instructions....

Rear of fuse comes off, a la El Bandito, giving access to fan which is screwed into three blocks.

BTW, mine arrived a hour ago !

OF course, HL sells the MPJet with gearbox only !!

[PunkerTFC]

AWESOME!! Wow... now I think I need one.

[AirX]

Hi Atindra,

I look forward to your experiences with the little Huck. :)

Eric B.

[PunkerTFC]

oh, i forgot: pictures pictures pictures!

[FAA]

Pictures from anyone building this yet ?

I am looking at a B20-12L with a 3S2P 1200 Etec pack for power plant.

[monkamarm2000]

I think Mike is having good experiances with Razor's in the Micro
Fan.

Barry

[Pjotrrr]

A friend at the club has one, here in Europe they are sold as a Simprop kit...
He will put an MPJet 2520 in it (the short one) without the gearbox.. This rather cheap brushless has almost the same parameters as a Speed 300
Cheap combo with a CC Phoenix controller at www.aircraft-world.com

Peter

[FAA]

Excellent.

I will be psoting some performance results with the Hacker. In fact, I may do a construction thread on it.

It will be interesting to get a comparison of the Hacker, MP, Razor and Stock motor.

I have no experience with the razor but I looked at the kv rating of 6800 (????). Seems a little TOO hot.
I think that anything over 180-190 Watts into this model would be very good.

Nick

[AirX]

Go guys go...:D

When will the kits arrive?

Eric B.

[dave morris]

razor 300 has a KV of 4850.

[monkamarm2000]

4850 is perfect cause your not going to be pulling alot of amps in that fan. What have you come up with on that setup Dave, with say Kans or HE?

Barry

[FAA]

Stand corrected on the Kv for the Razor. Typing on Saturday morning with no coffee. What do you expect? :)

Hacker B20-12L has a kv rating of 4630 so they both appear to be in the same ballpark. What are the rest of the data on the Razor ?

Nick

[dave morris]

Razor somewhat depends on the ESC, I have an older Jeti that must be more advanced timing, have seen it pull something like 13 amps on 10 KAN, about the same with the B2012L, maybe a little more. I will hook it up again and get a more exact reading later.

The MP short motor is the one with the hi KV I think it was around 6100, I think you would have to back the cell count down on that one, which may be fine to keep the weight down. I like to use Lipos so not sure how that would work out, it would be too hi a KV for 3s and maybe too low for 2s.

[PunkerTFC]

I had a thought, what about using the astro 010/esc/fan combo avalible on.... hmm... I can't remember what site it was, it may have been aerc, but I don't know. Anyways, you could just ditch the fan, and a brushless motor and control for $130 is pretty good.

[FAA]

Ta-183 is in hand. :)

Some quick notes for now:

Fan unit is NOT a wemotec micro. It is some other brand. It appears to have a carbon composite shroud, of high quality. I have not removed it to yet to post a better desription.

The other thing of importance is that the aft tail section / fuselage, once glued in place does not allow access to the motor or fan unit. Some type of latching system (maybe something like the one used on the RBC Ta-183) must be devised, or else whatever motor you put in, thats it !

Model is of VERY HIGH QUALITY.
I hate foamies ! This one has me saying "Holy Cow ! This is pretty good !" Landings (rough ones) should be no problem. Model feels like a glassed balsa aircraft. Hobby Lobby has a real winner on their hands !

Nick
Nick

[AirX]

Thanks for the heads up on the fan, I thought that the fan was Wemo design but from the message from HL I realised that the fan I saw on the fan page is just for the He 162. Let us know what you think of the set up as you build it Nick.

Cheers... :)

Eric B.

[monkamarm2000]

Hey Nick you could do like I do on my Huck and put a larger diameter CF rod in the fuse, then a diameter of rod that fits into that, thats glued into the aft part. if you do the ones in the fuse straight and the ones in the aft part canted outwards they hold by friction alone. My MF 480 huck has it and it works awesome. Plus it falls away with less damage in a crash.

Barry

[dave morris]

sounds like a VASA maybe a 55. is the spinner white?. If it is a VASA then it is a good thing, nice smooth runner, works well with a hacker B2012L (would need a different adapter) slightly larger than the wemotec (55mm vs. 50mm)

[FAA]

Its a 3 blade fan Dave.

Its not a VASA. I will take it apart over the next couple of days and post some pictures. I am starting to think that I may want to go we a Wemotec micro.

3 baldes sounds a bit weak for a hacker B20-12L.

Nick

[Jeremy_D]

hey guys, any news on the kits, how do they fly etc... I am thinking of getting one of these, I have a spare mega 16/15/4 from another plane.. Would this motor work ok with this models?

cheers

Jeremy..

[monkamarm2000]

4T wouldn't work in it Jeremy. This is a 300 size plane. But don't worry you have a good motor on your hands it will be good for something.

Barry

[FAA]

I will be posting a series of pictures and Mods for the kit.

Currently, I have modified the existing fan unit for accpeting a hacker B20-12L. That is going to be bench tested this week.

I will be using 3S4P Li-poly Etec 1200's for a power pack.

The model is of very high quality, with many nice user friendly extras.

The only potential shortcommings that I see, is to make the aft section removable so that one can get to the fan unit. The current scheme dictates that one glues the aft section on to the aircraft. This would make it almost impossible to access the fan unit again without cutting the model. The other, more a result of my using a higher powered motor, is to provide additonal reinforcement to to the wings. That is much easier to do through the use of a few carbon fiber rods.

The 15/16/4 is not suitable for EDF applications. Sorry. The 16/15/2 and 16/15/3 are better. The instructions in the kit also recomend a Model Motors 16 for use also. You need something with a relatively high Kv.


Nick

[Jeremy_D]

thats strange about the 16/15/4, we have had great sucess with these motors on a wattage sabre using the stock fan and 9 kan 1050 cells and a stock kyosho f16 using 12 kan 1050 cells. The sabre rolls of the ground (and its a grassy field), and the f16 flies great, bith can be handlaunched and fly for 6+ mins with throttle managment.

the mega is brand new so i can easily exchange it for a 3 turn... we just find that on the 4's we have used they go really well with the batt setups. plus we can;t use a bungee at the field so handlaunching is the only way.

What would be a good bl to use with this plane?

thanks

Jeremy

[FAA]

Jeremy

Even if wanted to fit the Mega in the fan unit for the TA-183, it will not fit !

The fan unit is slightly smaller than the wattage F-86 fan unit and bigger than a Wemotec micro.

You CANNOT replace the fan unit, (maybe a vasa ??), because of the design. So the the most you do is replace the motor and the fan.

Brushless Motors that will fit:

Hacker B20's
Razor
Model Motors
MPJ
The new small Megas.

Nick

[Jeremy_D]

cool thanks nick, I'll prob try an get a small mega, i really like those motors, even been cut to the bone with one :S

thanks for the rely.

Jeremy

[dave morris]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FAA

Currently, I have modified the existing fan unit for accpeting a hacker B20-12L. That is going to be bench tested this week.

I will be using 3S4P Li-poly Etec 1200's for a power pack.

wow, that should kick out some serious beans!

[Pjotrrr]

Saw the Huck fly this weekend at the club with the small MPJet motor (without the GB :)
Flies very well and much faster then I expected, the plane even looks bigger in the air, loops, rolls everyting without a prob...
Could be the successor of the T-33 in popularity

Peter

[FAA]

Well, some preliminary data.

This for the hacker B20-12L on the stock fan that comes with the kit.

On the bench using 10 cells (3000 Nimh) it pulled 12.2 A for 155~150 Watts. I did not have my thrust setup handy to measure actual "pull", but the little bugger almost came loose from my hand.

I also tried 8 cells (CP-1700 Nicads) for a very poor 72 Watts and 5.2 Amps.

In retrospect, I should have baselined the stock motor before starting all this. Maybe someone else has done this already ? or will ? (hint ! hint !)

It has a very strange dentist drill like pitch at 10 cells. I am use to the Wemotec micro which has a little "deeper" pitch. Probably due to the 3 blades vs the 4 on the wemotec.

Dave, what do you think ? (or anyone else)

Nick

[FAA]

Ok. Here are the pictures I promised.

This one shows the two parts of the fuselage (fore and aft, with the fan unit showing.

The little fan on the bench is a Wemotec micro.

[AirX]

FAA,

Do you think the little plane will carry the 3000's? I suppose not, so what is the plan for 10 cells in this plane?

Eric B.

[FAA]

This a better view of the fan looking fore. You can see how thick the foam is. It has a VERY hard shell on the outside skin.

The fan is a mix of plastic and carbon fiber.

Its held to the fuselage via three screws. The majority of the aircraft has been glued together with what appears to be some type of Probond style glue.

[FAA]

Here is a view of the intake looking at the fan. The intake is very clean with a tube of foam that appears to be seamless.

[FAA]

Another view looking fore.

[FAA]

Here is the aft section.

The upper tray is alread cut out for the servos. The linkages have been already run and connected to all moving surfaces. (thank you !).

You can also see the thrust tube. The fan is a press fit in the tube both fore and aft.

[FAA]

Eric,

The 3000 Nimh where only used for the bench run so I could get a "feel" for what to expect. I will be running several more bench tests.

The flight pack will be a 3S4P Li-poly Etec 1200.

Nick

[FAA]

Here is a view of the equipment tray.

The tray is very nicely built and drilled out for weight. It is VERY ROOMY !.

It is accessed by removing the cockpit hatch.

[FAA]

another view of the tray looking aft towards the fan.

[AirX]

Sound like the 10 cell setup will be the right setup. Maybe KAN950's.
Looks pretty nice from your shots FAA, I will try and get one or build one like Barry did. Keep the shots coming and good luck. :)

Eric B.

[FAA]

Here is a nice picture to give you a sense of size. I have the Wemotec micro on the left. The fan unit from the TA-183 in the middle and the Wemotec MF480 from my RBC F4D all in a row.

I should really measure the fan shroud, but I thought it would be better to start posting some pictures of what I have been doing. I will get an official measurement later tonight and post it.

[FAA]

Another shot of the three motors with their fans showing.

[FAA]

Here is where I was taking the fan apart. It actually can apart easier than I thought.

[FAA]

Here is a not very clear picture of the motor that comes with the kit. The adaptor is very primative looking but it seems to hold the fan true and secure. The motor is some type of class 300.

[FAA]

Here is a picture of the Hacker B20-12L in the fan case. You will notice the extra space around the Hacker. This is actually good because it allows for some air to circulate around the casing.

I had to re-drill mounting holes for the Hacker, but that was pretty easy.

[FAA]

A view of the bottom of the fuselage.

This is a nice touch. What apears in the picture as a molded panels is actually a thick plastic sheet that has been glued into a recess on the fuselage to strengthen the bottom of the model for added protection.

[Hiflyer]

FAA

Nice reporting, I hope all continues to go well.

Here is a link to Alfa's web site where he shows a way to mount the tail so that it remains removeable.

http://www.alfamodel.cz/fockewulf/images_eng.htm

I did this on one of mine with good results. There is no text with the images. I think that he inserted pieces of styrene sheet into the tail section and glued them in place with pro bond, this was to keep the nylon screws from crushing and tearing the foam.

One point that should be kept in mind is weight. My 183 weighs 19oz. and at this weight flys very well. If the weight were to increase to 22-23oz. I think that there would be problems.

As has been pointed out, any of the Mega 1615 series motors are way too big.

One other point that should be made relates to balancing of the fan. This is very important in that an unbalanced fan will rob a lot of power. The balancing routine is simply a trial and error process of running the fan in your hand. If it is not smooth at high RPM, stop the motor, remove the impeller and rotate it about 1/4 turn and reinstall it and try again. It's not as tedious as it sounds and it will improve performance and motor life.

Good Luck,

Mike Hines

[Hiflyer]

FAA

The photo that you posted of the bottom also shows the two marks that indicate the CG for the model, very handy.

[dave morris]

Did you have to mod the adapter to fit the Hacker? You prob should put some shims around the motor, 3 spaced equal should do it, otherwise you may get some rubbing of the fan as the motor flexes inside the tube. I like the little fairing for the motor wires, do you think you can use it with the more/larger wires feeding the hacker? Those of you concerned about weight gain should consider Lipos, a equivalant to 10 cell 2/3A pack weighs around 4.5-5.0 oz.

[monkamarm2000]

Good stuff guy's. I like the construction on this plane seems nice and felxable for updates. Anyone check out what kind of airfoil they used on it? And Jeremy yes the 4 is a good motor, but look at it this way, everything the 4 does the three will do better in fan unit's. On a prop job the 4 has a few advantages but the 3T is a sweet spot, but still too big for this plane. I have some extra Depron around maybe I'll shoot for this constrution method on my next Huck but in 480 form.

Barry

[Jeremy_D]

Yeah i got the 3 turn in the end, and i also ordered the rbc huck, I'll be using a wmotech fan in it.. can;'t wait :D

[FAA]

Having both the RBC and the Alpha TA-183's I can say that the Alpha blows the RBC kit out of the water !

The Alpha has a much better layout for components and I like the duct work. Once the mod for the aft and fore sections is implemented, many changes can be made easily.

The construction of the Aplha is amazing for a foam model. I have already droped the fuselage and other pieces several times, as well as a variety of tools on the parts (what can I say ? I am a klutz !), and no dents yet.

Dave, I will be putting some shims around the motor for sure.

I have run the motor on 10 cells for 4 min straight, top speed and everything seems to run smooth. No vibrations. The sucker is loud ! I am sure the pitch will change once installed in the aircraft.

Nick

[monkamarm2000]

I dig it Nick, and we all have those days, heck! I just kicked my ME 1101 half way across the garage tonight! Thank god it's all glass! I really like my Hucks and I like this one too. And Jeremy awesome you wont regret it on either count I'm sure. Nick did you ever measure that rotor for size?

Barry

[monkamarm2000]

Oh yeah nobody tell Steve! LOL

Barry

[FAA]

OK

Here are some data:

Fan shroud diameter: 60 mm
Fan diameter (approx): 56 mm

I have glued the the horizontal tail.
I removed (carefully) the aft servo tray to correctly install the elevator servo (which cannot be done with the tray installed). I installed the tabs (as shown above in the pictures from the Alpha site)to make the aft section removable, only I used blind nuts (4-40) on the ply posts, and 1/32 carbon fiber plate instead of styrene.

I will post some pictures of the work so far tommorrow.

Nick

[gregg f]

picked mine up today:D

[U812]

Gregg has a parkflyer;)

[gregg f]

Originally posted by U812
Gregg has a parkflyer;)

it has the purple ready;)

[U812]

Well I'll have something to chase with the A-7. See ya Monday?

I don't supose Tony got my bigger purple yet?:(

Steve

[Heiner Skroblin]

I am chasing my 6 ME's Steve, hope you send them out soon!!!!

Heiner

[FAA]

I must say, I never thought I would own a foam jet, but this thing is really nice.

I hope the Hacker delivers with the stock fan.

By the way, I will be using Hitec HS-55's for the two servos.

The wing assembly is a little strange, but I will see if it can be improved.

Nick

[gregg f]

Nick:
any updates? did you need a puller to get the adaptor off?.........gregg

[FAA]

Here we go gregg...

I have taken a small break from my F4D (shame on me !). Had to come up for air from all the sanding !

I have completed the following:

Added wood suports with blind nuts (4-40) to support removal of tail section as needed. Since I want to experiment a little with several motors this was a must. I used 1/32 carbon fiber sheets slotted between the foam. I then added additional glass cloth on the outside, because I discovered that the slightest slip of the screwdriver would punch through the foam. I will be painting over it so it will not be visible.

I removed the servo tray from the tail section to secure the servo and re-glued the whole thing using epoxy this time.

I glued the wings ! :eek:
What a job ! You need three hands to do this.

DO NOT GLUE THE WINGS ONE AT A TIME !

There is no way one can properly align the wings if you choose to glue them one at time. Go for both at the same time.

I used 30 min epoxy, and made sure I would have no interuption for the next 40 min while I was doing this.

The trick is to get the metal torsion bar, servo cables and the wings aligned at the same time and at the right incidence, (by hand !).

Lucky for all of us the model has the marking for the wings clearly visible on both sides. The key her is to get everything in line and hold there. Don't worry about a little mess, because a set of covers (filets) will had 99% of the mess.

[FAA]

Here is a close up of the wing.

Notice the little whit spot. Right under the leading edge of the wing. Thats what happens if you use alcohol on this model !

I tried to clean a drip of epoxy and took off some of the paint !

No big deal. I am painting the model anyway. I will show everyone the new scheme I am going with.

[FAA]

Here is another view.

Looks good. I have not put the aileron servo in yet. Thats next.

[FAA]

Here is a closeup of my "glass job" around the bolts that hold the aft section. I recomend doing this, and then just paint over. If you don't, after a couple of removals of the tail section, you will look like a P-51 did a job on you !

[FAA]

here is a shot of the aft section with the elevator servo in place and the control wires all connected.

[FAA]

here is a view of the paint scheme I will be going to. That brown / green camo on the wings is not very apealing.

[FAA]

Another view. I got these from Luft46

[PunkerTFC]

wow, nice paint scheme, I like that!

[jschrader]

WOW - Finally someone whose workshop is as almost as messy as mine *gg*

Seems I willl get a TA183 for testing purposes these days. Yesterday I watched th some of the videos at the Alfamodel website and - after all I've already read about it - wondered if they really did these with the stock equipment.

Here's the answer to my mail:

in the TA 183 on the video was Speed 300 and 8xSanyo500AR. It is important to find the correct position of the fan against plug to eliminate vibration of the unit.

And this might be interesting too:

The fan is designed for top speed 15m/s. We were able to reach top speed 16m/s in horizontal flight. It will be problem to fly faster - the model frame will not co-operate too much.

:D So next time a model is going to hassle you just ask it for more cooperation :D

For those who can read some german or want to see some decent diagrams on the TA 183 drives you may look here (http://www.rc-network.de/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000201).

cu

[FAA]

I think the hacker B20-12L is going to push the fan unit way beyond the fan design limit of 15m/s. The good things are that I am using a different fan hub than the stock one, with more mass and weight around the motor axile. I have found that increasing the mass around the fan hub helps stablize fan vibrations at high rpm.

Good thing I am using epoxy all around with reinforcements for the wings and tail.

I am expecting first flight to take part some time next weekend.

Nick

[AirX]

Hi Nick,

The only thing about adding mass to the fan hub is the gyroscopic forces will tend to wear the bearings out faster. The same thing happens in gas DF where the heavy fan rotors cause the bearings in the OS 91 to fail but it helps Boca Bearings survive in the hobby I suppose. Have also heard of this happening in the gearboxes of large electric planes.

I do agree that 15 m/s is not very fast, and that the Microfan can double that easy.

Eric B.

[gregg f]

just finished a run up on the alfa fan.
b20-12l
smile 40
10xfaup's
12a
155w
no tach measurment. it's dark here.

it does sound like a dentists drill:p

[U812]

So does the micro fan.

Sounds good Gregg, but you might get a little more from the micro fan.

Still 155 in that light Alfa model should make it really zoom.

Steve

[RalleKnalle]

Hi,

HWE have measured the fan units. He was been using 7, 8, 9 and 10 cells on it. (I think he is the best guy, which is measuring fans. :D :D

1. Alfa TA183 (60mm)
2. WeMoTec Micro fan (50mm)
3. Scorpio fantec 200 (50mm)
4. Scorpio fantec 400 (60mm)

[FAA]

Greg

The numbers you have for the fan, match the ones I recorded earlier in the thread for the Hacker B20-12L

On the bench using 10 cells (3000 Nimh) it pulled 12.2 A for 155~150 Watts. I did not have my thrust
setup handy to measure actual "pull", but the little bugger almost came loose from my hand.

I also tried 8 cells (CP-1700 Nicads) for a very poor 72 Watts and 5.2 Amps.

Nick