Anybody got anything to say about sailboats?

[maustin]

I've been wanting to try one of these, but I don't know anyone who has and wonder what they are like.
Anyone?

[Paul]

I sail a Soling 1M, from a kit by Victor models. I think they are out of California.

It's a fun easy boat to sail. My 6 yr. old daughter can sail it around our local pond very well. 30"long, 600^2" of sail on 2 channels, rudder and sail trim. Check it out here:

http://paulsplanes.fws1.com/soling.htm

Great fun when it's really windy!

Paul

[oded mazor]

Paul, your sail boat looks great !
how hard is it builiding one of these ARF sail boats (thunder tiger, kyosho) ? do you have to know much about sailboats design & handling in order to build and sail with it ?
what about flipping over at strong winds, does it happend a lot ?

thanks, Oded.

[Don Sims]

That boat looks like it is moving on!! I was wondering the same thing about tipover, but with that heavy a keel I guess it would be a bit difficult to do.

[DaveW]

Forget the others!1

get a Victor V32! It comes all built and painted, with a genuine Futaba radio installed.

Less than 1/2 hr from box to lake. and they sail great! I have one of these, also a Victor Tahoe 600 ( 30 yrs old) and a Valkyre 800 ( unbuilt).

BTW, they cannot tip over. A gust may blow them flat in the water but the heavy keel pops it right back up again. Most of the weight of the boat is the keel.

The also come in a variety of colors.
They are made in Southern California. The phone No. is (562) 803-1897. Price is around $300, but that includes radio, sail winch servo, painted hull, varnished wood deck and quality sails.

The Kyosho and Thunder Tiger take a lot longer to build and don't look as rugged. The V32 is also a great "rough water" boat, we have sailed them in truely horrible conditions and they just thunder right along.

But be sure to seal the hatches with surgical tape on truely bad days!

Its what you do when its too windy to fly!

They also make a line of many other boats, but they are NOT arfs ( almost ready to sail) and require considerable builing time.

Buy one, you won't be sorry. They last forever so its really a good investment in fun.

My 1971 Tahoe is still as good as new.

Dave

[Paul]

The kits from Victor Model Products are very easy to assemble, anyone with basic modeling skills could build one. The hull, deck, rudder, and keel are all molded plastic parts. A little wood is inside, and the rigging is very easy and fun. The kits come with good instructiond on building and sail set-up. Don't be afraid to build one, it's fun and easy! Here is the Victor site:

http://www.victor-model.com/Soling1M.html

The Soling 1M is a little bigger than the V32, and the TT and Kyosho boats. In my opinion stay away from those toy sailboats from Tower Hobbies. The boats from Victor have much better sailing performance, and have established racing classes and clubs all over the US.

The entire deck of my Soling has been under water in really high winds, and it has blown so far over the main sail was dragging in the water. But since the keel has most of the weight it pops right back up.

You don't really need any sailing knowledge to sail these, but some basic understandings about how a sailboat works are helpful. You could say the sails out about 30 degrees and sail around with just the rudder all day if you wanted to, but learning about trimming the sails is part of the fun.

Paul

[oded mazor]

thanks a lot for the information !

I definately see a sailboat in my future. the problem is mail ordering one all the way to Israel. perhaps i'll get one on my next vacation abroad.

P.S. - I suppose its not recommanded, but is it possible sailing one of these in salt water, like in a calm meditarenean sea marina... ?

thanks, Oded.

[Ralph2001]

I would like to suggest that anyone interested in the hobby of RC model sailboats look into one of the established classes that race around the USA and around the world. I'd be happy to send some data to those interested for their followup.

I have been a "real boat" sailor most of my life and have been into RC model sailboat racing for about 10 years over two periods.

I am now active in at one meter long model, the International One Meter, that is sailed around the world. This boat can be scratch built, assembled from parts collected from speciality shops and some are available essentially completely built. It requires a two channel surface frequency radio (and most sailors use a two stick TX as oposed to the wheel TX used by RC car folks) to control the rudder and the sail position.

The IOMs can handle winds from about 0 mph to about 35 mph with the three different size sets of sails

Let me know if I can be of further service.

[maustin]

Thanks for the info! Those Victor boats look like just the ticket for getting into this hobby. It would be nice to have something to do when the wind is up in addition to sloping.

Ralph2001,
I'd like to find out more about any sailing clubs in Utah. Have any information? I'm not sure if I'd really want to race, but it's always more fun to have somebody to kinda "show you the ropes," eh?

ps. Salt water won't hurt will it? (see Oded's question) I figure on using the Great Salt Lake here, so that would be a factor.

[Ralph2001]

Maustin: When I looked at the USA model site (http://www.AMYA.org/ I don't see any clubs in Utah. There might be members there who can become the core of a club, but I did not try and find this data. You might try.

As for salt water, generally speaking this is not a problem but like anything that gets wet, there are always exceptions. Getting salt water into your receiver or servos can cause a problem!

Sailing a small model on the Great Salt Lake seems to be a stretch for models. My one meter boat can sail in a chop of maybe 1.5' but this is like being in a hurricane for a real boat. Most sailing is done in winds less than 20 mph (and most of the country does not have many days with winds consistantly higher than this level) and most sailing is done in comparatively protected waters. If you decide to get involved, I suggest starting in more protected conditions.

One last observation. In model boat racing there are always some small collisions between the boats. Unlike aircraft, this is not a catasrophe, vor many boats have bumpers built into the bow. Many of the model boat sailors are also into aircraft and like the fact that they don't have to rebuild after every meet!

[DaveW]

Maustin

re: Salt water. I have sailed and run other boats in salt water with no problems

BUT all the rc gear must be protected from any direct contact or your radio will be ruined.

Some things to do:
1. Always store a boat with the hatches off to let things really dry out.
2. Grease the rudder post after each run in salt water.
3. Wash boat and sails ( if wet) in fresh water after running in salt.
4. Surgical tape makes a good sealing tape for the hatch in rough weather. Electrical tape works also but not as well.


Thoughts: Snap on lid food containers make good watertight boxes for the radio.

The servos and sail winch just have to tought it out! Tape up the seams in the servo case and they should be ok. Cheap servos work great in boats so if one does go sour its not a disaster.

A sailboat is something that can be enjoyed with others, or just by yourself. As peaceful as fishing, and no smelling fish or bait required!!

I recommended the V32 because it can be sailed 1/2 hr after opening the box, but Paul is right about the kits. They are well done and simple to assemble. Painting is required of course.

So, if you like one of the other boats better, don't worry about it.

Also, Victor can furnish the correct sail winch for the boat you choose! Very important item.
Take their advice,

Its amazing how bad a day these little boats can handle! My Tahoe went right through a 2 ft speedboat wake one day! The entire hull was 6" under water for a couple seconds and then it just popped out the other side and kept going!

Yes, there was water in the bilges, but that is common on rough days. Best to come in a bail it out once in a while.

Enjoy, Dave

[Don Sims]

I was wondering what is so importaint about the winch (Or was that wench?:rolleyes: ) Actually, I am asking about the winch... I assumed that a servo arm was the winch and that the boom was controlled by tighting and losing the servo, as in a push-pull system on a rudder on a plane....
Thanks!

[DaveW]

Don
Not so. Winch action is completely different from anything on an airplane.

The winch just pulls in, or lets out the "sheets"
( the sheets are not the sails, they are the lines that go to the main and jib booms to control their angle.) The wind pushes the sails and booms out, the winch pulls them in.

Sail winches are special servos for the small models, and rather large geared motors for the bigger ones. A lot or force and movement is needed.

Remember, the winch must exert enough force to pull the sail in against the force of the wind.
This is measured in pounds, not ounces on a boat!

Stick with what the mfg recommends, at least the first time, after that you will understand why.

A regular servo would be inadequate for any boat over 2 ft long.

Cheers,
Dave

[FullScalePilot]

Hi all


I have a kyosho FairWind 30" with 4 1/2' sails

My wife and I built this Kit about 7 Years ago and we had a blast together doing it.

I used a JR hi torqe BB servo instead of a winch servo. The same servo has been in the boat the entire time. I have sailed it in winds that have laid the boat totally on its side and never had a problem one. Hi torqe servos are 10 to 20 dollars cheeper then winch.

Don't get me wrong, If you can, get a winch servo simply for the fact that, Thats what it is made to do. I used the Hi torqe servo becouse i had one laying around.

Im a gas and electric pilot and sailing is just as much fun and chalenging as flying just a differnt kind of fun.

Scale Pilot

[Ralph2001]

Here is some more information you might find useful.

Some boats use the high power aircraft servos as a sail control device. Typically, a long arm is attached to the servo arm and with about 160 or so degrees of travel, can be set up to pull in the sails an adaquate amount. These are porportional, like all conventional servos. Some large aircraft servos are set up as a bang-bang system with a drum instead of an arm -- move the stick and the winch turns in or out, center the stick and there is no movement. The HiTec sail drum winch, another high power aircraft servo conversion, is set up to turn it's drum winch about 4 full turns. One has to limit the TX stick movement to control the sail sheets on this one.

Then there are some specialized sail winches that are optimized for sailing. RMG http://www.users.bigpond.com/rmgsw/ )is one of the popular winches but there are a couple others.

Rudder servos are standard aircraft servos -- the economical ones that come standard with a TX-RX set work OK.

As I indicated earlier, I am into sailboat racing and the IOM meets that interest level quite well. I have been sailing real boats off and on since 1940, so just sailing around a pond is a bit dull for me -- I want the competition aspects of the game. But for those who live in areas that don't have a group of folks interested in racing, then other boats mentioned here are quite nice.

I would suggest anyone in this group look into the 1/4 scale Laser sailboat (http://sailrclaser.com/). This boat is big enough to act more like a real boat than much smaller models, is completely built and comes with a cheap radio too -- you can be in the water in a few minutes. Now this might not appeal to the modeling crowd, who tend to like to build and tinker, but it is a good choice for others who want to test the model sailboat world.

(I personally don't have a Laser or any connection to the folks making or marketing them.)

[maustin]

I'm just wondering, what is sailing one of these like? How fast do they go? What kind of winds do you need? It looks like fun, but I'd hate to get bored watching it bob along at a snail's pace. Anyone have any good videos online? The RCLaser looked OK, but kinda slow.

I really like the look of the Victor models.

Hope I don't sound silly asking these questions, but I'm just curious, having done nothing like it before. I'm still trying to find a decent size body of water too. I've got a couple of big lakes somewhat close, or maybe I could check out the golf course water hazards :D

[Beamer]

There is a ton of information at the Model Sailing headquarters..
All the racing classes etc. etc..You may have a club in your area.

www.amya.org

I have had one (Victoria) for a year, but a bit tired of it after
having flown planes for years..(It is for sale by the way..:)
There are no clubs here in Pittsburgh, so unless you can race
it is not too exciting..Like every other R/C area..there are good
and bad boats..Look the hobby over well before you buy..

wvr@access995.com

[maustin]

Beamer,

So it's not as exciting as the planes then? I'm worried about if I'd get bored too. No clubs in listed on the AMYA site for Utah.

Curious though, how much are you asking for the Victoria? Got any pics?

[Ralph2001]

As has been discussed, model sailboat activity is very slow by comparison to aircraft. I, personally, like to race them and therein, the interest level and needed level of concentration increases dramatically.

In a typical regatta day, we might sail 20 or so races a day, spend upwards of 6 hours with a TX in hand and concentrating on sailing the boat better than the others. We spend all this time on our feet, walking up and down the course shoreline so as to be as close to the model as possible. All of us have at least 1100 mah power packs in the TX and RX and many use the 1650 NIMH packs so we don't have to recharge during the day. It is an intense day. But different from aircraft, for sure.

Like aircraft, there are lots of web sites on the hobby. Here is a site that has lots of photos and at least one video. The video shows one one meter long model in a breeze that is well over 15 mph. The boat is going pretty fast. But look over the rest of the photos and you will see some very classy looking models, most of which look very much like the very latest "hot" ocean racing boats.


http://communities.msn.com/RCSailing/

[Marked]

I HAVE AN OLD(23YRS) Cox Tradewinds sailboat that was given to me recently.It is a blast to sail on those days it is too windy to fly.Sailing is like flying r/c gliders on a slope,except you dont have to go to get it if you go too far downwind!! It tackes very well,but the downwind needs some minor sail adjustment.

[Matthew Allen]

Anyone know where to find good free plans suitable for beginners?

[DaveW]

The Victor boats I have ( V32, Tahoe 600) will beat the Victoria with no problem, especially in a stronger wind.

All it takes is to get a friend interested and have them get a similar boat and the race is on.

It is not possible to sail two boats together with out it turning into a race! I understand from friends with real ones that the same is true there if the boats are at all close in performance.

Once you and a friend get in a race, you will lie awake nights trying to come up with more speed from your boat! Adjusting mast angle, Jib/Main angleular difference, boom vang tension etc....
can make a surprising difference in the speed of the boat, but it won't be evident unless you have someone to race with! Even sailing alone is relaxing though, kinda like fishing.

Try it, you'll like it!!

[Ralph2001]

Matthew: If you go to the Traplet modeliing magazine web site

http://www.traplet.com/

and from there to the on-line store, marine plans and then to "one meter" you will find a variety of plans for one meter long sailboats, some planked with strip and some in light ply.

The costs are quite nominal.

The Nimbus is a round hull design using strip construction techniques. The plan is very detailed and even if you select another design, you might want to get the Nimbus plans just for detail presented that can be applied to the other designs.

Ralph

[Jim Wiseman]

I had an Odyssy model sailboat based on the Benetau 39 I think. It foundered on its maiden voyage when water got in the "sealed " compartments. I am now building a 1/6 scale version of the International Mirror (I also built the full sized version.) So, I am not interested in racing; but would welcome suggestions as to a good reliable rc controller/sevo set up.

[martin richards]

What's been said in this thread already is what you need. For your Mirror, which is only about 20" long, standard servos should be man enough to handle the sail(s) and the rudder. A twin stick 2-channel transmitter operating on a "surface" frequency is also needed. There's a thread here on building the Mirror.

[Mike Denest]

http://www.ec12.org

[mr. fix-it]

Hi all


I have a kyosho FairWind 30" with 4 1/2' sails

My wife and I built this Kit about 7 Years ago and we had a blast together doing it.

I used a JR hi torqe BB servo instead of a winch servo. The same servo has been in the boat the entire time. I have sailed it in winds that have laid the boat totally on its side and never had a problem one. Hi torqe servos are 10 to 20 dollars cheeper then winch.

Don't get me wrong, If you can, get a winch servo simply for the fact that, Thats what it is made to do. I used the Hi torqe servo becouse i had one laying around.

Im a gas and electric pilot and sailing is just as much fun and chalenging as flying just a differnt kind of fun.

Scale Pilot It is very nice to include your wife in your hobbies.

[joao]

Really :cool: RC activity.

And when the wind drops you can start flying small waterplanes like I´ve already did with my MPX Pico-Cub (Multiplex float kit just taped to the normal undercarriage. Wheels still there. Total time of the floats and waterudder installation 20 min !

I will document the process in the waterplane forum

Cheers, João

[joao]

Detail pictures of the Pico-Cub here

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454841

Regards, João

[Vernon Hunt]

:mad: I thought this was about sailboats...........