Phoenix-35 causing glitches?

[KrisS]

I used to fly my Sokol with a Hacker B20 and Jeti-Hacker esc and Schulze Alpha 440 receiver (= Berg micro stamp). Worked perfectly, never had a single glitch, then I wanted more speed and I put in a Lehner motor with Phoenix-35 esc. This wonderful receiver tells you how many glitches it encountered by a blinking LED, after the first flight it was blinking 5 times, that means it had between 32 to 64 glitches! The second flight the glitches were so bad that I lost control of my Sokol and it's gone to pieces :mad:

Next I soldered the Pheonix-35 to a Hacker B20 and put it in my Diabolo 400. I run a Mini AC motor with a TMM esc and Jeti Rex 5 receiver there before without any problems or glitches. Guess what, on the first flight I got 2 severe glitches, my Diabolo did some unwanted snaprolls, fortunately I had enough air under the wings and could land it safely.

I really cannot understand why I suddenly get so many glitches, my suspicion is that they are caused by the Phoenix-35 esc, does anyone have similar experience? The esc is placed far away from the rx, maybe something wrong with the BEC, ripple and/or noise in the alimetation?

[jmbig]

Mine does the same thing going to send it back. CU

[KrisS]

I threw out the Phoenix-35 and tried a brand new Phoenix-25 in the Diabolo 400, glitching was really bad no matter if the motor was on or off, result is a damaged airplane :mad:
I liked the CC escs because of their small size, light weight and reasonable prize, but I won't use them anymore because of the glitching problem, it seems half of the CC escs I have cause glitching. I never had glitching problems with Schulze, Kontronik, BK-Electronics, Jeti or TMM controllers...

[Tom in Cincy]

Ditto..... Pheonix 45 glitching the receiver so bad its unuseable

[Patrick del Castillo]

Originally posted by KrisS
I threw out the Phoenix-35 and tried a brand new Phoenix-25 in the Diabolo 400, glitching was really bad no matter if the motor was on or off, result is a damaged airplane :mad:
I liked the CC escs because of their small size, light weight and reasonable prize, but I won't use them anymore because of the glitching problem, it seems half of the CC escs I have cause glitching. I never had glitching problems with Schulze, Kontronik, BK-Electronics, Jeti or TMM controllers...


Hmmm... First of all, NEVER throw out a CC controller -- we'll fix the problem, whatever it takes.

This is the very first time I've ever heard of anyone having any glitching problems with a Phx-25... The last batch of 35s and 45s had a problem, but it has been resolved. (one of our part vendors made a change to their silicon, and didn't notify us -- it increased the amount of radiated noise in the 30-50mhz range -- a simple resistor change fixes the problem.)

Perhaps you are used to dealing with European manufacturers, but here at CC, we'll resolve any problems you have, at our expense. So just get in touch with us, and we'll take care of you.

Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations

[KrisS]

Hi Patrick,

thanks for the reply. I am using 40 mhz just in the range of the radiated noise! In the States they use mostly 72 mhz so probably only a few people have noticed this problem?
My Phoenix-25 and Phoenix-35 are on its way to you for check-up/repair/replacement!

Thank you very much, -Kris-

[t.nollett]

just tried my slowstick with a cc 35 and a gws rx result was bad glitching, tried my switchback, cc 35 and gws rx, same bad glitching. decided on cc 35 for li-poly suport i have 2 new ones
but when i use my hacker controller i have no problem, going to try a hitec dc rx but if i have no luck shell i return them, if so to who as i got them from e-flight in the uk.
thanks

t.n

[t.nollett]

patrick

just tried an hi-tec electron 6 dc rx, trid a range check with the motor running and the aerial down move 1mtr and the servo's went mad thats with the rx, cc35 and the battery removed from the model and placed as far away from each other as i could
and its the same with both the controllers but after fitting the hacker i have no problems.

t.nollett

[KrisS]

@ t.nollett

What frequency are you using in the UK? 35 mhz? 40 mhz? 41 mhz?

@Patrick
I also send in my Phoenix-45 for check-up because I need a 100% reliable glitch-free esc. I want to use it in a fast pylon racer where a glitch will most definetely result in a total crash.

[t.nollett]

krisS
35 mhz
t.n

[spadforme]

I am having the same problem with a cc25 on a mega 16/15/3 and hitec focus 3 am on channel 46, and 72 mhz. When I go to full throttle or go into a power dive and the motor rpm's go up the plane goes crazy. Luckily it is a combat wing and hitting the ground doesn't hurt it. Everything is fine as long as I stay below full throttle and out of high speed dives, but this kinda defeats the purpose of having a brushless. I called cc yesterday and they said they had never heard of this before. I am going to try this setup on a buddys wing on friday and see it still does it.

[t.nollett]

i contacted e-flight in the uk where i got mine from and they are doing a straight swop, with my 35's they sent my servo's crazy with the slightest throttle and i tried 3 different recivers.
hope you sort out your problem as it tends to kill the fun factor of having $140 of brushless.

t.n

[pardus]

I'm having exactly the same problem with my Phoenix 35. Range check = only 5m/15ft with motor running out of the heli, 60m/180ft without motor running. Accounted for at least 3 crashes with my Eco 8 heli. I'm using 35.100 MHz frequency.

Patrick, I'm in Johannesburg, South Africa, how do I go about returning my ESC to you? Or is it possible to effect the resistor change myself?

I originally purchased the ESC from MegaMotorUSA with a Mega motor.

thanks
Graham

[pardus]

I've just received a reply from CC offering to replace my ESC with a new one at no cost including a pre-paid return envelope to send mine back. Won't be able to fly for a while but at least when I do it'll be glitch-free
Thanks CC, I had heard your service was good!
cheers

[Eddie P]

I've got 6 Castle Creations Speed controllers. I've never had a problem with any until a few days ago my Phoenix 35 started to cut out in flight and wouldn't re-arm. I called up and they said it was one of the bad batches Patrick was talking about. So they are sending me a new one with a return envelope and I'm sending the old one back. Now THAT is customer service. I'm impressed. :D

As far as the other problems with glitching go, I'm very hopeful a solution can be found. These are great controllers for the most part and I run them in my very best airplanes with no hesitation. Hopefully everyone here on this thread can feel the same way again soon!

[Kevin Cox]

I have one CC 25 and I am VERY happy with it. I also have Kontroniks, Jeti and Jeti-Hacker. I would not hesitate getting another CC.

[zaf]

Hi Patrick,

as per my post here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1143474#post1143474

I have had problems with my Pheonix35. Would you be prepared to look at it for me? I would gladly pay for the freight back to you.
Could you give me some details as to where to send it?

Regards,

Andrew Zaf.

[Roger Felton]

Hi Patrick,
Is there a way to visually determine if my Phoenix35 is one of affected units? I bought this ESC from you at MWE early this year, but haven't used it yet. I'm about to put it in a new project and I'd rather not find out the hard way :-)

Roger Felton

[Gary Dodds]

I was Having the glitching problems with my cc35, and cc45 with my AXI2820/10 a month ago when i first got them.

Ian at E-Flight.co.uk (my supplier) looked into the problem as well as a few ppl in these forums. When it was discovered that there was this manufacturing fault , Ian took them back offering refund or replacement. I opted for replacement. They have just turned up this morning and with a bit of luck i will get one of them tested tommorow to see if the glitching is cured, fingers crossed.

I notice that there are now 2 big capacitors insted of 1 on the older one, is this one of the fixes ?

Anyway, i will post my findings here when i get one of them tested.

Gary

[t.nollett]

just got mine, extra board as well, going to try it latter.
t.n

[KrisS]

I also got my updated Phoenix-45, the fix they provided is kind of a disappointment, they soldered on an extra 470 uF capacitor plus added an extra board for BEC alimentation, the whole thing looks very experimental, besides the esc has become big, heavy and chunky :-( Actually I was expecting something that looks exactly like the original Phoenix-45 but just doesn't glitch, not a 'fix' like this. I haven't tested the 'updated' esc yet about the glitching issue, not in the mood right now besides I haven't a spare plane at the moment that I can risk crashing.

[t.nollett]

my pheonix 35 has the extra board and cap, the extra cap makes me feel safer [ voltage spikes from misuse of my battery packs:D ] the extra board still don't make it any fatter than my hacker 18-3p and the both weigh 27 grams with connecters
just got to program in soft start to save my hackers gearbox.

t.n

p.s my 35 causes no glitching on 35mhz, very intrested in your testing as i need a bigger controller for my twister 29.

[KrisS]

I tried the updated Phoenix-45 in my Adrenalin pylon racer, didn't cause glitching.

[KrisS]

Dear CC crew,

is the glitching problem solved in the latest batch of escs? I need a small esc, a Phoenix-25 would fit the bill, however I will only buy one if I can be 100% sure that it won't crash another of my planes. Should I order directly from your website to be sure to get the latest stuff? Vendors might have some old stock...

Thank you :)

[Shawn Palmer]

Kris,

You should see the same from the 25 as your 45, although nothing is 100% in this hobby.

Ordering direct insures that you will get the very freshest product, yes. :-)

Shawn

[KillerWatt]

Software, software, it's gotta be bad software and the "bad batch of chips", defective or not enough of caps is getting to be real frequent "old story " lines to use for almost every CC esc product users explaination of problems........ almost every consumer product from toasters to computers is/has been using chips and some kind of software and other common electronic componets for years now......Why is it just CC that's having these frequent componet device bad parts or other defects with common parts......It's common knowledge that power control devices are going to be exposed to power supply spikes, RF and other "hostile" enviroments and things like BL motors with various windings and poles and this type stuff should be designed with plenty of reserve tollerence without malfunction........Your customer base is mainly attracted enough to buy from you amongst all the other suppliers of similar products on amps ratings compared to size and weight and some other programable features and regardless of CC's reputation of little to no charge warrantee or repair rates, it's a total pain to have to keep sending new stuff back for maybe corrected 100 % functionality (should not have to turn certain programable features off, etc)...... if CC marketed TV's, computers, toasters, and other required for life stuff the mail parcel post routes would be so clogged up with returned products it would probably represent a national emergency.... How about some internal beta testing before releasing this stuff to the public or do you'll have some major stock ownership in the the parcel post companies............. kw

[opualuan]

I've got to agree here... it's also been weeks since multiple users have reported multiple cases of motors not starting up after brake is engaged (8th time threads), and I'm not seeing the kind of reponse an urgent issue such as this demands. I'd like to buy a couple '35s and new 10's for a couple projects coming out, but i WILL NOT until some of these problems are solved... a plane can be a dangerous device if a component fails. not doing everything possible to fix known problems is an invitation to legal issues when the inevitable plane crash causes a serious accident.

[KillerWatt]

I REALLY want CC to get ALL their products squared away and working correctly cause i have about 5 anticipated brushless motored powered plane soon awaiting for various size controllers and i've been planning to equip them all with the POTENTIALLY superior CC products, but i must hold off purchases until i see far less user problem reports....... my purchase item specs are at least 150 to 200 % over whatever wattage or amp load i will use the device on, so overloaded or overheating should never be the problem.... i just want the stuff to function correctly the first time connected to any version of any mfg.s motor within the CC ratings without wierd or plane crashing effects without a 50% chance of having to send it back............ kw

[ScottS]

Originally posted by KillerWatt

....
Why is it just CC that's having these frequent componet device bad parts or other defects with common parts......

....
........... kw

This isn't really a fair statement. This forum might make it look like only CC has problems but other vendors have had their share of problems....
Aveox had a batch of brushless controller's that would lock into full throttle.
Many of the early astro brushless controllers would smoke if used close to their rated spec.
Schulze had some QA problems on one of their batches of ESC's.
I have had to go through 3 brushed controllers to get on that worked corrected from FMA - lucky I was testing at New Creations so Kirk just kept swapping them until I got a good one.
I have also seen several other brands of controllers die straight out of the box while at New Creations.

It would be nice if everything worked perfectly straight out of the box... but this isn't always the case and it isn't just CC, but at least for me CC does a reason job of answering emails and phono calls and trying to make things right.

[JoeCrasher]

I have to agree with ScottS

CC goes out of their way to make things right. In my experience, they have some of the best, if not THE BEST, customer service out there in the RC world.

I currently have a problem with my 25s not firing up every 8th time. I'm not sweating it, I'm sure CC will get the problem resolved & make it right. So for now it's like Clint Eastwood said as dirty Harry - Did he fire six shots or only five? ; In my case - did I fire that up 6 or seven times.....

[Shawn Palmer]

Killer, let me put a sense of scale to all of this for you:

We're shipping about 6,000 esc's per month right now. Do you really think there's a 50% chance of something failing/needing corrected? It takes longer to troubleshoot/reprogram/repair an esc than to build a new one - if the issues were as large as you describe, we'd be litterally wading in returned equipment right now.

As for "why is it that just CC is having these problems" - the fact is, we're not the only one having problems - but we ARE the only ones discussing them openly and honestly with our customers in public forums, and on the phone, and via e-mail, in order to identify and solve particular issues - some of them specific to certain customers.

Customer service is all well and good, but if the product sucks, NO ammount of customer service can make up for that fact. Our growth, and success of our product line is nothing short of astounding, so I doubt the product sucks - but that's my own personal assessment - you'll have to ask the other 5,999 customers this month what they think.

Shawn

[opualuan]

noone is saying the product sucks. there are some existing issues that need to be dealt with, most seem firmware related. CC service has been great. pricing is as good as the competition. size and weight is lower than that of the competition, feature set is very good.

but, using the same logic, if you are seeing X number of problem reports on ezone, the number is actually much higher. some people might not even notice the 8th time issue, or attribute problems to other components. many don't use ezone. many that DO use ezone don't post. it is a very serious issue, and I'm hearing uncharacteristic silence from the CC camp...

every time I fly my planes now, I have an elevated possibility of crashing due to this issue. and I haven't heard any timeline as to a fix, or even verification that you can reproduce it.

[Shawn Palmer]

see post on 8th time thread

Shawn

[KillerWatt]

If you've got ANY idea of the total amount of time, assembly planning, effort and expense of the major effort type model aircraft we're trusting your BL type esc's in, and to have an uncontrollable totalled crash due only to some preventable, stupid esc problem, you might understand where we're comming from.... not to mention the possible serious property or human injury to other persons ... yours or any other esc IS the heart controlling componet affecting every other part in the aircraft.....every one reaching the customer has GOT to be the product development of "failure is NOT an option"..... not "just send it back in for a check-up"....... I don't care how much it cost, just get the stuff corrected THERE at the factory so i don't end up with one of your statistical crash jobs............ kw

[Shawn Palmer]

Having been an active and avid hobbyist for over 20 years, yes I do realize how much time, money, and effort is involved in getting an airframe built and fitted for flight.

We had a deep discussion about quality control issues (amongst other things) that went into the wee hours last night, and you'll be glad to note that there will be significant changes in the time alloted for beta and in-house testing of new software and new products in the future.

Shawn

[KrisS]

This is the very first time I've ever heard of anyone having any glitching problems with a Phx-25... The last batch of 35s and 45s had a problem, but it has been resolved. (one of our part vendors made a change to their silicon, and didn't notify us -- it increased the amount of radiated noise in the 30-50mhz range -- a simple resistor change fixes the problem.)

I got my new Phoenix-25 today. As CC was out of stock I ordered from a vendor. So is there any way to know if it's one of the bad batch except trying it the 'hard way'? As stated by Patrick there might be some 'noisy' items on the board, is it possible to distinguish them by part number etc.?

[Shawn Palmer]

That was over 3 months ago - problem long gone now.

You should have the "soft start" programming section in the instructions with the latest version.

Shawn

[KrisS]

Hi Shawn,

thanks for the reply. The included manual says Rev 8-date 05/08/03, I see Cuttoff Voltage - Current Limiting - Brake Type - Throttle Type - Electronic timing advance - Cutoff Type, no 'Soft start' section :mad:
How big is the chance it's one of the bad batch? You should put some serial or version numbers on your escs...

Thanks, -Kris-

[Shawn Palmer]

You're safe on the 5/8 rev - that was the original rev for the "noisy parts" affecting Europe.

Shawn

[pardus]

My glitching/range problems have been solved by replacement ESC's from Shawn at Castle Creations.
Thanks Shawn

[radarguy]

Shawn,

I fly on 36MHz. My as yet unused CC Phx 25 shipped from AirCraft-World on 4Jul03. My manual is Rev 5-date 11/13/02 and Rev 7-date 02/07/02. I was about to install the CC 25 along with a Mega 16/15/7 and 3S 2000mAh Li Po pack.

Could my esc be one of the problem batch? If so, what should I do next?

Brian

[pardus]

If I may add my comment, if you do a range check (aerial down) with the motor running and if the range is more than 20-30 paces then the ESC should be fine. I now get over 50 paces with a PCM Rx from the 13 or so I was getting with the old ESC.
Graham

[mjdoz]

I have a CC25 from Castle that was shipped July 2003 and it was / is rock solid on 36 MHZ. I would give you the revision dates but the ESC is somewhere between here and Castle having it's mind expaned to talk USB.

Range check any installation to be sure.

Michael

[Mike Parsons]

Shawn,
Have you seen any of these problems on an 80? I had major problems yesterday when plugging in the battery and surfaces went nuts and the prop tried to rotate. About the 6th plug in, it would straighten out. And against better judgment (when I have I ever had that :) ), I flew a great flight. Go to plug in another charged battery and it freaked out. Tried a few more times and it got its mind right and two more flights. Very strange. I was about to isolate the RX and UBEC, but then read this thread. I had it in a Rascal 40 prior to this and upgraded the software with the link because it was acting up with my Mega 22/30 newly installed in the Banchee. I was wondering if the upgrade had something to do with it.

My setup:
Banchee
Mega 22/30/2
UBEC
Electron 6
4- HS85's
3S4P 7600 TP.
P-80

Any ideas (you can PM me) or should I send it in?

Thanks as always as your customer service rocks :)

-Mike

[Mike Parsons]

Email sent asking same question. I also noticed that the shrinkwrap is split down the side (about 1/2"). I need to pull it out to inspect further...but that may warrant sending it in regardless.

-Mike

[Shawn Palmer]

Mike,

I'd look at the interactions of the UBEC and Rx - switch on or off at plug-in? It may be powering up things a little funky if the switch is on when you plug in?

Shrink split? - the shrink is far less surviveable at temp than the actual controller is - that's telling you you've been "a little hot" at one time, and possibly have something amiss there, but not a strong indication that something bad is just around the corner. (I have a Barracuda controller I split the shrink on the first run - still running it a couple of months later, no probs.)

Shawn

[Mike Parsons]

Mike,

I'd look at the interactions of the UBEC and Rx - switch on or off at plug-in? It may be powering up things a little funky if the switch is on when you plug in?

Shrink split? - the shrink is far less surviveable at temp than the actual controller is - that's telling you you've been "a little hot" at one time, and possibly have something amiss there, but not a strong indication that something bad is just around the corner. (I have a Barracuda controller I split the shrink on the first run - still running it a couple of months later, no probs.)

Shawn
Thanks for the reply Shawn. Switch off...plug in and then switch on. I have tried it with switch on and switch off with the same reaction. Then on the 5th or 6th plug in...it works like a charm until I unplug again. I am going to cut the switch and UBEC out of the picture (since the P-80 can handle the 10 cells and with the BEC), and see what happens.

It is a perfect 1/2" split. Everything looks ok (wrap excluded:) ). I will try and isolate the other items to put the connection directly between the RX and ESC and see if it happens again. If so...I will send it your way.


Thanks again.

Mike

[Shawn Palmer]

That's very odd - there shouldn't be any difference between the first time, or the 101st time you plug in as far as the ESC goes - let me know how it goes with the "solo" testing.

Shawn

[Hovertime]

Mike - i would try unplugging esc from receiver, and see if that changes things.
I suspect either UBEC or electron... maybe loose crystal?

[mdegans]

A couple of weeks ago I purchased a phoenix 60 (@ aircraft-world). After buiding the aircraft, yesterday was the big day and a range check was performed.

Without the motor running I get a 80 meter range with the TX antenna short, but when I fired up the motor the servo's and throttle became slow (I use PCM).
With the motor running the range was down to 10 meters, that's bad!

Config: 35Mhz futaba PCM/DS RX
Castle creation phoenix 60 ECS, version 1.02 and 1.05 tried
Plettenberg Orbit 20-16 motor
UBEC
4S2P lipo's (60Amps nominal)

I did try the following alternatives;
Another receiver, another set of kristals, receiver battery instead of the UBEC, all servo's disconnected, another motor (AXI 2826) and the last resort, I removed everything from the plane and installed only the motor, ESC, battery and receiver on a motorstand :-)
Same results...

So I swapped the CC60 with a CC45 from another (working) plane and the glitches went away..

Any idea's what to do next??

Regards,

Menno

[Hovertime]

Mike-any update on your problem?

[Mike Parsons]

I meant to update this thread. I havent been able to duplicate the problem since that day. I still need to send the 80 in for a check up since the heatshrink is split, but I have had four or five flawless startups since the last time that happend. Weird.

-Mike

[taag]

Question for Shawn Palmer,

Hi have the same problem with my Phoenix-80, when Phoenix is connected to the receiver, I can make only 10 steps with the antenna completely closed, after that every servo start to move without reason. With the opened antenna the distance is not over 60m. Too bad. I've already changed receiver, the receiver is powered by a 4,8V pack, I also disconnected the red pin from the regulator.
When the regulator is unplugged, I have no problems.
I live in Italy and we use 40Mhz band. Is it a solution for this problem, is it possible to fix it? I can't use my model at all! I know CC is a serius mark, I hope you can help me, Thank you. Emi

[taag]

I solved the problem of glitches simply putting a toroid on the cable which connect the ESC to the reveiver. No glitches anymore. This helps also when the receiver is near the ESC.

[BEC]

Good!

Notice that this thread is VERY old (last posted to over three years ago before your post). Also, Shawn is no longer at Castle Creations.

[RC Man]

I solved the problem of glitches simply putting a toroid on the cable which connect the ESC to the reveiver. No glitches anymore. This helps also when the receiver is near the ESC.



I always put one on all my ESC’s – good preventative measure. I get them at DigiKey.com and they are less than $0.40.


:cool: RC