Tell us what YOU want!

[Shawn Palmer]

The title sez it all - go nuts!

Personally, I want a 24 cell 70ish amp controller w/a BEC that will drive 6 standard size servos, but that's just me....

We strive to provide the cutting edge in an ever-changing industry, and Patrick's genius knows no bounds, so what's "on the horizon" as far as your needs go?

Shawn Palmer
Product Specialist
Castle Creations
www.castlecreations.com

[wattsup]

Shawn,

How about:
a frequency channel scanner for under $75 or
a receiver with a built-in plane finder(beeper) or
a brushless controller that can handle twin motors or
an inexpensive Aiptek type digital camera control that plugs into the receiver or
a receiver that can be programmed at the field to any channel without having to change a crystal and weighing less than 10 grams or
a receiver that can identify a stalled or bad servo or
a receiver that beeps or flashes a light at turn on when there is interference on the frequency or the receiver power is low or
a receiver that can plug into a computer's USB port and be checked out for any problems by provided software or online by Castle Creations or
a brush/brushless motor ESC with digital real time power readout!

Regards,

wattsup:) :) :)

[Anks]

Simply a change to the 35 and 45 controller to make them 40 & 50 respectively, although I know the controllers are deliberately underrated if the both could be uprated it would certainly level the playing field. There are many motor combinations that draw around the 35 amp mark where jumping to the 45 would be wise but this is then not as cost effective as other 40amp controllers.

[locomoto]

How about a Phoenix line that will smoothly and reliably start the new type of outrunner motors and some of the other European brands.

[boomerace]

I guess I'm the only one that likes the line already without needing more!:rolleyes:
boomer

[Shawn Palmer]

C'mon boomer!

Are you that easily pleased?

Shawn

[boomerace]

Originally posted by Shawn Palmer
C'mon boomer!

Are you that easily pleased?

Shawn
That's just TODAY! I'm feeling mellow!:D
boomer

[Looooeeee!]

OK, a big request, Smaller, lighter, cheaper, the Phoenix 10 and any of its smaller siblings. I want to get another Phoenix 10, but the Jeti 04-3 has some advantages, mainly price and physical size.... I run mostly really small BL motors anyway..

[10Thumbs]

I would guess that we need higher advance on the brushless controllers to get more efficiency on the outrunner motors.

Also would like the Pixie20P to have a brake for flying S400 electric sailplanes with folding props. Yes, you can get the Sprite25, which has the brake, and maybe this is what the Pixie20P with a brake would end up weighing anyway.

[Shawn Palmer]

I'll post this again elsewhere about the outrunners in more detail, but our controllers DO automatically run the outrunners at a high advance (28 to 35 deg depending on the motor).

Loooeee - Smaller lighter Pheonix 10 you say? You got it! Going into production in a month or two....

Shawn

[Steve McBride]

Originally posted by Shawn Palmer


Loooeee - Smaller lighter Pheonix 10 you say? You got it! Going into production in a month or two....

Shawn

Since the cat is out of the bag -

I saw this ESC some weeks back and it looks really nice, light and small. You will be very happy with it I am sure.

Steve

[FlyingW]

Shawn,

I would like to see analysis and options for running an AXI 2820/10 with the Phoenix 45.

My setup runs roughly in the low and mid-range, but smoothly at full throttle. I tried a few tweaks with the timing and switching frequency, but the problem just became apparent at different RPMs.

This is currently OK for me, because I am using it in a sailplane application. But I plan to use it in a sport plane soon - and will them require smooth operation over the entire throttle range.

Thanks,

Paul

[Shawn Palmer]

FlyingW - ongoing research is happening w/most outrunners right now - solutions forthcoming.

Shawn

[FlyingW]

Thanks,

I'll check here periodically.

Paul

[GBR2]

With the new USB programmer that is coming, I want the ability to set whatever LVC level I want rather than only choosing among a handful of choices.

I'd also like it to have the ability to update the firmware when newer stuff becomes available.

In other words more features than just what you can now do with a transmitter.

[sguty]

Support for higher cell counts, especially 6 cell LiPo packs (that's just over the edge of the voltage equivalence of the 16 cell max count for the Phoenix 35)
More options for LVC.
Support for BEC at higher voltages ala ultimate BEC.

Steve

[jmolwitz]

I'll put a vote in for a bec that can handle 40 volts and 6 servos

[KrisS]

I would like to have the CC escs without that big capacitor, it would make them even smaller and lighter! The Schulze and/or Kontronik escs as a comparison come without capacitor and work very well...

[Patrick del Castillo]

Originally posted by KrisS
I would like to have the CC escs without that big capacitor, it would make them even smaller and lighter! The Schulze and/or Kontronik escs as a comparison come without capacitor and work very well...

Well, the Schulze and Kontronic still have caps, just a surface mount version. I'm experimenting with smaller surface mount caps, but I don't think they perform quite as well as the bigger external caps.

Patrick

[sneu]

Their high power versions still have the large caps.

Steve

[Smash McCrash]

I realize that this is the planes forum, but a reversing brushless controller for cars would be nice.

Mike

[Ortenstein]

Hi Shawn,
I already emailed you my wish for a new software feature but like to share my thoughts with others on this forum.

When reading through this forum I found out that there is a big problem for the ESC to see throttle 0 and 100%. I also had this problem. I was able to move the stick 1/3 in "fixed throttle" option without the motor powering up.

So I like to see a "calibrate throttle while programming" feature. When programming the ESC you always move the throttle between 0 and 100% (which is -100% to +100% servo throw) to answer no and yes. Why not store the values received during programming for the "fixed throttle" mode.

Thanks
Michael

[Shawn Palmer]

Smash - That would be nice wouldn't it?

Michael - I spoke w/Patrick about this, and the consensus was, a LOT of folks use another Tx to do programming, and that would throw the primary one out of whack a bit.

Shawn

[Ortenstein]

@Shawn:

Did I understand you correctly that a LOT of people use a different TX to program their ESC than the actual one they use for flying?? :eek: Although I cannot believe and understand this... well, just another reason why to implement the feature anyways:

Ok, when using the same TX for flying and programming, the user saves a lot of time setting the throttle off and max point. He doesn't have to take the motor from the main gear to set max throttle and doesn't have to play around with servo throw to set the correct throttle off point. What if he even doesn't have a computer TX to set all the throw stuff correctly?

If (and only if) a person uses a different TX than the one he uses for flying (which in my eyes is absolut stupid) he doesn't lose anything since he would have had to set the throw anyways since there seems to be nobody on this planet with a TX that has -100% trow at the ESC's throttle just off point and +100% at the throttle max point.

And hey... always be ahead of the competitor... even if only some people use this feature they may come back and buy another one just for this reason. It may make life easier for just a few, but since it is software (so even could be an optional feature) it is only a few minutes to implement it.

I personally go a lot by the features when buying something. :D

[Shawn Palmer]

OK - I should have clarified that point:

Amongst HELI flyers - many use a seperate Tx to program, since programming can be difficult in governor mode.

[JohnM]

I am one of the Heli flyers that uses a separate model memory on my Futaba 9CH to program my Phoenix 35 and 45 controllers. I have a seperate model memory that is set to airplane mode used just for this purpose. The reason I need to do this is that it is very difficult to program the controller if the model memory location is set for helicopter mode. The high, mid, and low throttle stick are not accurate. The mid point is very low and it is extremely difficult to go through the programming procedure without unintentionally choosing the wrong "answer"

Shawn, could you please explain why this happens? I had recently expressed my concern with this as I believe it might be causing the lack of obtaining max throttle on some of my controllers in governor mode. Since the LED does not light in governor mode it is not possible to tell if you have reach max throttle. One of my Phoenix 45 controllers has a very low headspeed even at max throttle.

John

[Shawn Palmer]

John,

Patrick can chime in w/the hardcore technical aspects, but basically in gov. mode the stick does not give a "range" like normal, it gives a set of "points". These points do not often match up w/low, mid, and full throttle.

Shawn

[JohnM]

I'm not sure if I understand your response. The transmitter is not in governor mode when I program the controller. Are you stating that if I re-program the controller back to non-governor mode, I will not have a problem programming the controller using my Heli mode model memory on my transmitter?
I never have a problem programming the controller, whether the controller is in governor mode or non-governor mode when using the model memory that is set in airplane mode. The problem seems to only be related to programming the controller when the transmitter is in Heli mode. I don't know if this is a transmitter issue or a controller issue. I have seen the same problem with someone elses Futaba 9CH, Phoenix 45 combo.

Quote:
"These points do not often match up w/low, mid, and full throttle"

If that is the case, how does the controller correctly set the full throttle stick setting in governor mode?


John

[stumax]

Guys, how about a controller that can handle 50 cells or 75V? How about using current mode control in the larger controllers so that rpm is proportional to throttle pos?

Stu.

[Hovertime]

I wish that usb programmer were out already....
I hate waiting....
Also i use sam transmitter to program my phoenix in a heli, i use 3 pos switch to do tha, which i normally use in flight as a Heafd rpm set up switch. Works like a charm!

[Patrick del Castillo]

Originally posted by JohnM
I'm not sure if I understand your response. The transmitter is not in governor mode when I program the controller. Are you stating that if I re-program the controller back to non-governor mode, I will not have a problem programming the controller using my Heli mode model memory on my transmitter?
I never have a problem programming the controller, whether the controller is in governor mode or non-governor mode when using the model memory that is set in airplane mode. The problem seems to only be related to programming the controller when the transmitter is in Heli mode. I don't know if this is a transmitter issue or a controller issue. I have seen the same problem with someone elses Futaba 9CH, Phoenix 45 combo.

Quote:
"These points do not often match up w/low, mid, and full throttle"

If that is the case, how does the controller correctly set the full throttle stick setting in governor mode?


John

John,

The problem is this -- usually when someone uses governor mode, they set the throttle points to something like:

0 - 70 - 70 - 70 - 70

This means that at both middle and high stick position, the controller "sees" 70% throttle. The throttle points have to be something like:

0 - 25 - 50 - 75 - 100

for the controller to program correctly. The controller has to see a "mid" throttle level at mid stick, and a "full on" throttle level at max stick.

Does that make more sense?

Thanx!

Patrick

[JohnM]

Thanks for the explanation Patrick. Yes that does make sense. I don't have my normal mode throttle curve set up for a straight line since I switch to Idlle-up 1 for this but my normal mode throttle curve was not linear. I changed it to 0-25-50-75-100 and the programming works correctly.
Thanks,
John

[Dave Hederich]

How about a cesarean section for the ultra-high-frequency version of the Pixie-7P. It's been kicking around in the womb for more than 9 months now, and the delivery date is much anticipated. ;)

Some people believe that a ~100kHz ESC will help prolong the short lives of small brushed motors such as the GWS IPS by increasing brush life. At the rate some people burn out small motors, an ESC that would help extend motor life would be a great investment in reducing replacement motor costs.

[Tres Wright]

Well, I have 9 or 10 Phoenix 10's and really love them just like they are :D But if you're going to ask, a smaller and lighter P10 would be great. Since it's already in the works, about the only other thing I would wish for is... the date, when will it be out? ;) Will it be comparable in price to the current P10?


And will you take my old ones in trade-in? LOL! ;)

[AirChopper]

I would like to see a Piccolo tail esc like the Schulze 105HE but one that wont BURN UP EVERYTIME THE TAIL MOTOR WEARS OUT!!!!! oh and maybe some of those nice wires you guys use.

[Shawn Palmer]

Can't give a date on the P10 yet, but soon.

Airchopper - we sell our wire.....just let me know how much you need!
Are you burning out P7P's on your tail motors?

Shawn

[Steve McBride]

How about a bucket of cash with every purchase?

If you can't do that, then I guess what everyone else said.....

How about a micro receiver/esc combo for 1 li-poly cell? And some small actuators. Perhaps there is a way to mas produce the actuators using off the shelf components on a small circuit board? I know you are not into the actuator business though.

Just some thoughts.

Keep up the great work!

Steve

[AirChopper]

Originally posted by Shawn Palmer
Can't give a date on the P10 yet, but soon.

Airchopper - we sell our wire.....just let me know how much you need!
Are you burning out P7P's on your tail motors?

Shawn

No I'm not but with the CSM HLG gyro the Pixie has hardly any resolution and seems to be more like a switch "on or off". The two esc's that I have found to work the best (although I hate gws) is the ics50 and the Schulze 105HE. The ics50 isn't highfreq so the tail motors last about 15 flights(@ $10 a pop plus the crash). When the tail motors DO go the Schulze esc's burn up too! I'm not sure why this is.

[Shawn Palmer]

The motors are probably taking the Schulze's with them because of higher A loads as the motor is dying/burning up.

I'll have to see if I can get my hands on one somewhere and play w/that Gyro and see what I can come up with.

Steve - the micro stuff is being done, and done WELL by quite a few different folks, but I'll pass it by Patrick and see what he thinks...

Steve's bucket of cash is on the way!

Shawn

[AirChopper]

The motors are the GWS carbon brush IPS 7.2v version. Shouldn't be pulling over 3 amps max and the esc is rated for 7 amps I think....great esc as with the Pixie but both are causing problems.


I realize it's hard to understand whats wrong, if you got time maybe look into it, starting to be a lot of Piccolo Pro flyers out there. I've actually seen one 3D recently first hand(me!) :cool:

[Peter Khor]

Not too sure how much demand there would be, but how about a ESC (brushed and brushless) that has a wattmeter and data recording device built in ;) could even add a tach. port input and/or air speed. This way one could *finally* have real numbers wrt to in-flight system performance with the prop unloaded.

Just a wish.

[TMorita]

Well, a version of firmware which fixed all the problems on helicopters would be nice:

1) A soft start that doesn't kick your helicopter around 180 degrees when it starts up. The current "soft start" kicks my ECO 8 (with Mega 22/20/3H) around about 90 degrees when it starts up...

2) A governor mode that works properly. The current governor mode seems to rev up and down in RPM about once a second when the heli is hovering, which wreaks havoc with heading hold gyros because the tail rotor RPM keeps changing...

Toshi

[Patrick Plawner]

- ESC BEC, with many cells and many servos, indeed would be most welcome !

- Selling your items via Aircraft-Japan, as would then be very convinient for many people, not leaving in the US, to get your products

- Frequency Scanner is a great thing, but not sure it is your field

- Certified ESC BEC, for brushless, that could control several brushless motors (maybe not only 2, why not 3, or 4 ?)

- Option to control, any brand of brushless control (maybe already done ??)



You guys make already EXCELLENT products.

[Shawn Palmer]

Thanks Patrick!
- the "universal" software is very soon to be ready, I've spoken to Partick about a "twin" controller - it would basically be two shrink wrapped together....best to use them seperately. Scanner...I'll pass that along. Dave at Aircaft-world Japan DOES carry our products! And, high-voltage models are in the works - I harrass Patrick OFTEN about the BEC thing, but he just doesn't think it's much of a selling point - prove him wrong? (maybe I'll post a poll...)

TMorita,
The "softer" start is in the works and VERY soon to be available. - is the governor mode issue just something you've noticed yourself, or is it widely talked about? (common problem or possibly bad controller?)

Peter,
Yes, that would be nice - how much are you willing to pay for it though? I know Partick has the know-how to do it, but it sounds expensive, and without "mass appeal" (but then again I thought that about the Astro whatt-meter)

Airchopper,
Not to be preachy, but you'd be surprised at how many A those little motors draw when they're dying!

Shawn

[TMorita]

The problems with the governor mode is fairly well-known. The Phoenixes are acquiring a very bad reputation in the electric helicopter community and you may want to do some serious fixes to the firmware.

I would recommend somebody at Castle Creations learn to fly an electric helicopter so they can see the problems firsthand.

Toshi

[Shawn Palmer]

My Logo 10 is on the way.

Can you give me some links to discussions of these issues please?

Thanks,
Shawn

[Fred Bronk]

Shawn, first read the beginners guide in Helis. It has basic setups for the 10.

Second (god I love this) use the search mod. :D

If you need more, email me or checkout www.logomania.com


A High powered BEC would be greatly used and wanted!!

How about covering some of the Heli issues in the Heli forum. I think it will get lost here.

As for setup, I use the same TX. But set the % from 0-100 and make sure the ATV is set the same!

I want the USB programmer now! If it can be interphased with a PC all the better. GIVE US CUTTING EDGE STUFF!

[Shawn Palmer]

Fred,

I'm actually not a beginner in heli's - well, ok - 15 yrs of rust might make me a beginner again! (just ask Jim's couch - no wait...HE hit the couch!)

Don't you tell me to search - buster! I am well aware of the features of this site, thank you!;)

I'll probably be a permanent fixture in the Heli forum soon - I've been fighting it off long enough...

What usb? where do you hear all this stuff?;)

OOOOHHH - I bet your using the "search" feature aren't you.....:D

Shawn

[Guyffon]

ANyway of having a software that can start up 2 similar brushless motors on 1 esc with reasonable ease and low failure startup rate?

[opualuan]

the auto setpoint issue really should be resolved. my model motors esc makes you arm by going from 0% throttle, to 100%, and back again, to arm. this is what I end up doing with my CC phoenix esc's, but the motor bursts on. please change the arming procedure.

usb interface? what what huh?is this for real?

I'd also love in-flight whattmeter stuff. you already are able to check amps and volts midair, right? and with backemf you're able to get a reasonably accurate readout of the rpms, right? add a usb interface (windows AND mac os x, please... one can hope) and this is KILLER.

also, switched high-current esc. smt caps. mini p10. user-flashable firmware esc's (must I really send in my old phoenix and $15 to get new firmware once you guys figure out how to drive X outrunner that just came out?)

up the phoenix 25, 35, 45 by 5 amps. the mega 16/15/3 is a popular motor, and just out of reach of the 25. and the 25 is such a nice size... the next size up in most esc's is pretty chunky.

[blfinche]

What is the USB programmer everyone is talking about? I would love to see the new receiver run on a single lipoly.

Bobby

[Shawn Palmer]

I've prodded Partick multiple times for "twin" esc - Just doesn't look like it's gonna happen, and he's convinced me (almost) that it's just not a good idea.

Omar - we're actually looking into changing the arming procedure to set points BEFORE activating the motor, like you said.

IN- FLIGHT WHATTMETER STUFF:
Talked with Patrick a great deal about this yesterday, and it is most certainly do-able, and a lot cheaper than I thought.
15mins of sampling
3Xper sec
volts
amps
rpm
pc interfaced to download data
"bench mode" for real time display
+-5% accuracy
as above, less than $100 - sound like something we need to make?

Shawn

[Steve McBride]

I didn't see this mentioned, but how about an autonomous (sp?) flight system? GPS guided of course. With the ability to download flgiht data (altitude, speed, heading, rate of climb, decent, etc) and the ability to upload a flight plan. Include the ability to trigger a camera shutter at predetermined waypoints.

And how about a micro wireless video camera system? I suppose the FCC requirements may make this a hassle though.

Steve

[Shawn Palmer]

Micro wireless video has been done to death.

Autonomous system - LOL Patrick and I were just talking about that the other night - can be done, but the $5k street price might be a little steep?

Shawn

[rtront]

I want a phoenix software upgrade that in non-governor mode, when a loss of signal occurs and then is restored in less than a second, the throttle comes back on without having to be reset.
I understand that you want the user to throttle back when the controller overheats or input voltage gets too low, but why force a perfectly happy flyer to have to reset by throttling back.

This is a bit more of a problem when flying a heli withOUT governor in idle up (i.e. stunt) transmitter mode/throttle curve, because moving the stick down all the way does not reduce the throttle to zero for resetting.

I understand this has been fixed in governor mode. But has it been fixed in non-governor mode?
Thanks, Russ

[t.nollett]

i would love an add on ajustable low voltage buzzer, bleeper so i can use my hackers with li-polys safely. [ i have 40 amp/70 amp opto controllers] may be with an ajustable bec instead of the buzzer using jumpers instead of programing.

t.n

[Shawn Palmer]

Russ - yes, same fix.

Shawn

[opualuan]

russ, you can improve the 'glitch-resistant' performance of any esc including the CC by using a berg 4, will fill in for up to .7s I believe before causing the esc to go into shutdown mode... I've noticed a big imrovement.

I'm glad the arming stuff may change.

you're talking about the inflight whattmeter as a seperate item. couldn't it be a phoenix with a couple extra pads populated? I'd pay probably 50% extra for a phoenix with these abilities. an inflight whattmeter seperate would be ok for $100, too, I guess, you could move it from plane to plane.

[Neil Stainton]

I agree an improved arming sequence is essential. I now fly my Phoenixes with fixed endpoints to get around this problem.

Neil.

[DeaninMilwaukee]

How about pixie 7p class esc that can handle 4 li cells and run 3 servo's?

Many smaller motors would run cooler and with more power by upping voltage and dropping amps. This would also allow use of some motors that simply have too low a kv to use on 3 cells.

[CWallace]

Shawn,

That upgrade to the throtle reset that Russ talks about in the above post,,,,, when did that occur?

I sent 2 P35's and 2 P45's back in a few months ago to upgrade the hardware due to the overheating problems from too little copper in the circuit boards. Haven't been flying since then (kids playing baseball and soccer) but am currious if I have the upgrade. I believe this is when the 45's went to 2 boards.

Thanks

CW

[uncled]

What I'd like to see is something for brushless like the Plantraco, receiver esc, combined into one unit. This is really nice to work with.

[Shawn Palmer]

CW - yours were sent out before the latest update went into effect.

Shawn

[dw1122]

Originally posted by Shawn Palmer
I've prodded Partick multiple times for "twin" esc - Just doesn't look like it's gonna happen, and he's convinced me (almost) that it's just not a good idea.


If twin drive is not a good idea then we twin fans (not that fan:)) would like some way to synchronize the motor cutoffs. A wire feeding the earliest cutoff signal to other ESC's would be nice.

The inflight wattmeter embedded esc idea is a killer!

[monti]

how about an RFFS alternative?

[CWallace]

Shawn,

Can my controllers be sent in for software update to get that feature for the restart?

Would I be able to program it myself in the future when the programing device is available?

Thanks

CW

[fumblefingers]

A $20.00 Brushless controller would be a good start.
john

[Shawn Palmer]

CW - yes and yes.

Shawn

[rtront]

I have seen a suggestion for a controller to log the voltage and current for a flight.
What would be almost as useful and would be more easy to implement is to sample the current once every second and keep a record of only the highest current. Then on the ground, ask the controller for this number. If the controller blinked 3 times followed by 4 times, you new the current draw was 34 amps and you should really trade in your Phoenix-25 for a Phoenix-35.
I know Patrick has also talked of training the controller to blink the version number of the software.
Both of these suggestions would be very useful!
Thanks, Russ.

[Jim Miller]

It would be interesting to see what could be done as a flight logger that could be downloaded via the future USB port to measure inflight current and RPM.

Combined with some closed course speed testing it would help determine propulsion system (motor, battery, prop) performance.

Some means of timetagging would help correlate data. Maybe another receiver channel could be used to set a flag that could be controlled from the transmitter.

tnx
jtm

[Neil Stainton]

I am interested in motor testing, and I would be interested in a brushless controller for bench use that would give me very accurate RPM info (preferably straight into a PC), and an easy way of changing the timing and frequency, preferably while the motor was running.

Neil.

[Fred Bronk]

USB, USB, USB Link!!!!!

The heck with flashing lights. That is OK for basic setup and trouble info. A USB link would be so simple. DL into your PDL or laptop, or change as needed.

Hi Shawn and Pat!! :D

[TMorita]

I would like to see a better manual, too.

The current manual is too vague about stuff like:

1. Low rpm vs high rpm governor mode. It says "the low RPM range is useful for low pole count motors (Hacker, etc) ..." Hey, we don't disassmble our expensive motors, so we don't know how many poles they have, and the manufacturers don't give end-users that info. Let's say I have a Mega. I don't know how many poles that has...should I use it in low rpm or high rpm govenor mode? I dunno. The manual should tell us what governor mode to use for as many possible motor manufacturers as possible.

2. PWM Switching rate

All it really says is:

Option 1: 11 Khz * Recommend for most brushless motors
Option 2: 22 Khz Recommended for low inductance motors
Option 3: 41 Khz: Recommend for very low inductance motors

Okay, let's say I have a Mega 16/15/3. The Io is 1.7, the resistance is 0.027 ohm. Is that average inductance, low inductance, or very low inductance? I have no idea. A little more information on how to select the best switching rate using Io and resistance and/or a discussion of tradeoffs involved in selecting a switching rate would be good. Any kind of additional information would be good, because I have no idea what Castle Creations considers "average", "low" and "very low" inductance - I'm not psychic!

3. Auto calibrating throttle

There should be a note that says "When using auto calibrating throttle you should blip the throttle to full momentarily during startup so the controller will learn the full range of the throttle. This will prevent glitches in flight." or something would be good. People don't seem to know this.

4. Entering programming mode

There should be a note that "If you use a throttle curve, then your throttle may not be at 50% when your throttle is in the middle position and/or your throttle may not be at 100% when your throttle is in the high position. If so, you may need to disable your throttle curves or set to a linear mix to program the controller."

I think that's most of my documentation peeves.

Toshi

[CWallace]

He Guys,

I've found that when I use the Auto Calibrate Mode setting on my
Phoenix controllers, that the motor will run at slow speed at off (down stick) position....unless I adjust the trim to full down on the radio. Whats up with that. If this is not where to post this...just let me know.

CW

[Shawn Palmer]

Toshi,
Excellent suggestions - we're looking into different packaging, and with that, will come a re-work of the instructions in time as well.

CW - When using AC mode - make sure to run the throttle up to full for 4 seconds right after the controller arms - this sets the endpoints and will prevent them from shifting around in flight, or use "fixed throttle" mode, will fix the problem either way.

Shawn

[rroback]

So.. i like the sounds of this in flight logger. RAW POWER! I want to know current, voltage and rpm wouldn't be bad, but I don't care about that as much..

rhett

[TMorita]

See what I mean about most people not knowing about the auto-calibrate mode and throttle blipping? :)

Okay, here's a few more peeves:

o 3.5mm bullet plugs on the heli CC 35 and up so they're compatible with the everyone else. Helicopter people are always swapping motors/ESCs.

o 13 gauge battery wire on the heli CC 35 and up. You're currently using 16 gauge, and it looks wimpy. The Schulzes ship with much more substantial battery wire.

o I have 2 Phoenix 10s, 2 Phoenix 35s and a Phoenix 45, and it's really hard to differentiate betwen them...I have to count FETs on the board and see if it has a BEC daughterboard...and then try to remember what the configuration is for each one. You need to add a label indicating the model number on each ESC before I lose my mind! Pleeeease!

Toshi

[TMorita]

I just remembered another one.

o Longer length for the wire (3 conductor ribbon cable) which plugs into the receiver, at least for higher amperages. I like to place the ESC as far away from the gyro/receiver as possible to reduce interference (gyro & receiver near the back, and the ESC near the motor) and the wires are barely long enough. At least three more inches would really help.

Toshi

[rtront]

I do NOT want 13 ga wire. The 16 guage is much nicer to work with generally, and twist to reduce interference.
Also, I did an aerodynamic calculation several years ago comparing 13 ga with 16 ga. I compared the extra power to the motor due to reduced resistance, with the power needed aerodynamically to carry the extra weight of the heavier guage wire. It was extremely interesting to find out that the extra power available was basically completely cancelled by the power needed to carry the extra weight!!!
Though this calculation was for an airplane, I am sure the results would not be too far different for a heli.
Russ (who seems to like to do such horribly mathematical engineering calculations as part of his hobby -- he must be sick).

[TMorita]

Okay. Maybe just for us helicopter folk, then.

Toshi

[rtront]

Toshi: I think you missed my point. I suspect the calculation would be roughly the same for helicopters. Therefore I don't think there is any reason to change to a heavy guage. And I don't think it looks "wimpy" (your term), and even if it did I wouldn't care as I hate routing heavier wire than necessary around my models.

Cheers, Russ

[feathermerchant]

Arming example: To fly my Electrostreak I must first turn on my transmitter then plug in my aircraft battery thus arming the controller. Then while it's sitting on the table armed I install the wing, put on the transmitter neck strap, extend the transmitter antenna, pick up the airplane then go fly (can't possibly go to full throttle for 4 sec immediately after connecting power to the sc). All this time if I bump the throttle stick...
My only defense is the throttle lock on the TX. Not all TX have this feature.
Still if another TX comes up on the same freq by accident...
I think it would be safer to require idle throttle for a few seconds then full throttle for a few then back to idle before it's armed. I'd feel safer.
How about a programming choice?
Reviewing the other posts this would also set the throttle endpoints.

[Shawn Palmer]

Toshi -

1) I hate bullet plugs! (yes - personal opinion) I've seen many a controller burned by having bullet plugs get sloppy and loose (some almost brand new). Adding connectors here will almost assuredly will never happen, as it defeates the universality of the controllers' applications.

2) The wire guage is very carefully chosen to handle the rated current - there is no need for bigger wire.

3) Labels are being discussed (I want them on mine too for the same reasons!)

4) this is the first I've heard of a need for a longer Rx wire - I usually end up SHORTENING my mine, and have wondered why we make them so darn long in the first place...

More news on the arming sequence later.

Feather - What I do w/"labor intensive planes" is put the throttle all the way up before plugging in the controller - that way it will not arm/run until I drop the stick ALL the way back down, and am ready to fly.

Shawn
Shawn

[feathermerchant]

Great for you but I'm always concerned about working around an "energized" airplane with the throttle up. Especially all the way.
Seems to me the arming sequence is backward.

[GBR2]

I agree, the arming sequence has always seemed to easy to me. If you have the TX on and at low throttle by accident, plugging in the plane battery makes the whole system live after several seconds. I know Patrick thinks that the current arming sequence is adequate but if nothing else I'd like to have a choice of the current sequence or the one suggested - low for several seconds, high for several seconds, low to arm it.
I'd personally feel a little safer with that, then what it does now.

[Shawn Palmer]

"I know Patrick thinks that the current arming sequence is adequate"

Actually he does not, due to the feedback here and my own testing - it will be changed.

Shawn

[feathermerchant]

Yee Haw

[claymeyer]

1) I want a good looking, easy to build 2M foamie trainer that doesn't fly like a brick.

2) I want concise, clearly written instructions WITH PHOTOS for every plane out there. (There's no excuse for bad instructions...)

[opualuan]

and i suppose you want CC to start kitting planes?

[Shawn Palmer]

You never know Omar, I've got several friends w/laser cutters, and I've designed before.....

Shawn

[TMorita]

The low-high-low arming sequence seems very good. It would also eliminate the "need to blip the throttle to full" when using the adjustable endpoint mode because the controller could learn the throttle range simultaneously.

One nice feature for a heli ESC would be a second control channel for the motor timing to vary it between 5-15 degrees. If you're just hovering, you can dial down the timing, and for aerobatics you can dial up the timing from the transmitter. If the lead is not connected, it should default to the value that's programmed using the beep sequence to accomodate people without extra channels.

Toshi

[Shawn Palmer]

hmm - that would be cool!
Shawn

[opualuan]

earlier, tracking and recording in-flight rpm's throught the controller, current, flight time, etc was brought up. it was essentially put to the side as a possible future product.

what about a benchtesting scaled-down version of this idea to allow testing when the controller is plugged via usb?

the computer could control the throttle...

the controller could transmit motor rpm , current, and voltage to the computer for benchtesting different combos (just real time values, no tracking or data recording in the controller)

your controllers would then have a simple tach and wattmeter built-in...

[Shawn Palmer]

Yes, the device being discussed would have "bench mode" built in.

Shawn

[opualuan]

no, no... I mean having this mode in standard production phoenix esc's. just bench mode when connected with esc.

[Shawn Palmer]

Well, there would need to be more computing horsepower on the controller itself than there is, in order to do that on-board. It's a possibility for the future w/better chips, but wouldn't work as a "bolt-on" type thing right now, it would need to be in a seperate package (maybe combined w/a switching BEC?)

Shawn

[opualuan]

I don't get it... to calculate when to energize each coil, the esc needs to know where the rotor is. transmit a pulse to the computer each time a coil is passed by, and the SW can figure out the rpm's. also, since the esc knows about current overload, aren't volts and amps already known by the motor?

I don't have an intimate understanding of your implementation, can you tell I really want this feature?

:)

[Shawn Palmer]

LOL - yes, and I do too - and I suspect a LOT of other folks do as well!

Basically - yes, everything you said is true - the esc knows rpm, and amps already - and I think could calculate voltage if it's not a direct measurement. The problem comes with NOT having enough processor memory or power left over for the extra code that would have to be included in order to compile and output data like that. The data is there yes, just can't quite get it out just yet onboard.

Shawn

[David F. Plummer]

How about an answer to an email inquiry to your company (see also, my inquiry on the same topic in this thread)!!!

David Plummer

[Steve McBride]

David,

I went through all the messages in this thread and did not see your question. Perhaps something happened and it did not post.

You may want to post it again just in case.

Steve