RES rulebook

[ArnoldC]

I am designing a RES airplane, and need a few rules so it is classified as an RES airplane, yes Im aware it is rudder elevator, and spoilers but I need more details. Does anyone know a link to the RES rule book??


Arnold

[bwaltz]

That's it Arnold. Rudder, elevator, spoiler. Those are the rules. The size can be whatever, as you can have SailAirs, composite Searchers, built up LegionAirs etc... There are no rules except the 3 channel functionality

Brett

[thepilotbruss]

I believe there is more to it than that. I think I remember hearing something about the size and location of the spoilers. If you find the rule book please post a link to it here.

[shoe]

http://modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/compreg.asp?sid=2AE129680C534637A090F178F2D7A0A4

That link has my session id but it should still work. It's the official AMA rules. Currently in RES there are restrictions on landing devices as well although I think that will be removed next year.

[bwaltz]

Originally posted by thepilotbruss
I believe there is more to it than that. I think I remember hearing something about the size and location of the spoilers. If you find the rule book please post a link to it here.

I beg to differ...
RES RULES
RES rules are about as simple as it can get. There is some confusion between RES rules and Nostalgia rules, particularly on the west side of the country. Some of the clubs are running RES contests, but calling them Nostalgia and vise versa. Variations of the RES rules are being used, i.e.; see through wings only, one of a kind model and so on. This is good, because generally the contest director is trying to attract as many contestants as possible or maybe trying to keep composit ships out of the mix, or is setting the contest up primarily for new pilots. One nice thing about being a contest director, you can use any rules you want or modify any AMA rule, as long as you notify everyone well prior to the contest.

Bob Johnson submitted RES rules to AMA and his rules are being widely used. Bob's rules are RES (rudder, elevator, spoilers only) with a edict that a landing skeg is a no no. Many of the RES contests allow skegs since many of the contestants routinely put a skeg on all their sailplanes.

So that is it, RES contests mean the sailplane is limited to rudder, elevator and spoiler functions.

There is a problem with the RES rules (AMA) and the Nostalgia rules in that they both do not have wing span size classes and the result is both RES and Nostalgia rules being used at the AMA LSF Nats in Muncie, Indiana promote flying large sailplanes. It is widely accepted, starting back in 1968, that bigger sailplanes fly better (longer) than small ones, so unless you have a large sailplane, you likely won't be taking home a dust collector.

Most clubs are geared to large composit sailplanes, their winches are hot, the tow lines are very heavy 280 lb test, the tow line diameter is extreme and therefore produces excess drag. What does this mean, well it means your light weight RES or Nostalgia sailplane will suffer on launch and it better have well engineered wing spars. This and the fact that RES and Nostalgia Classes cater to large wing spans means not much fun for pilots flying Gentle Ladies and etc.. If your club is interested in promoting the RES-Nostalgia Classes you can probably find someone with a docile winch no longer in use. String it up with 125 lb to 150 lb line, maybe use a 6 volt battery and you will be amazed at the gain in launch height and safety for your pride and joy.

[sierra-gold]

While essentially it's RES... there is a more definitive description concerning spoilers:

• 3.1.6. For Event 460: RESClass
Sailplanes.
• 3.1.6.a. Control of the aircraft will be limited to three functions:rudder, elevator, and spoilers.
• 3.1.6.b. Except in the case of tailless aircraft that have a portion of the trailing edge of the wing serve as the elevator, the trailing edge of the wing must remain fixed at all times. In the excepted case, where split elevators are used, they may be driven by separate servos but both left and right halves must at all times move in unison and deflect by the same amount and in the same direction.
• 3.1.6.c.Spoilers and/or air brakes must
extend only above the top surface of the wing when deployed. The trailing edge of the spoiler/airbrake must be at least two inches ahead of the trailing edge of the wing. Two or more spoiler/air brakes may be used, but they must all act in unison and extend above the surface of the wing by the same amount when deployed.

Sierra Gold

[bwaltz]

Originally posted by sierra-gold
While essentially it's RES... there is a more definitive description concerning spoilers:

• 3.1.6.c.Spoilers and/or air brakes must
extend only above the top surface of the wing when deployed. The trailing edge of the spoiler/airbrake must be at least two inches ahead of the trailing edge of the wing. Two or more spoiler/air brakes may be used, but they must all act in unison and extend above the surface of the wing by the same amount when deployed.

Is there any other way to install Spoilers??!!

[sierra-gold]

Yes, there is.

A "split spoiler" opening on top and bottom of the wing to avoid the flare-up with traditional spoilers. That's what the rule is making illegal for RES.

I don't write 'em, I just have to follow them.

Did you have a bad day?

[bwaltz]

Originally posted by sierra-gold
A "split spoiler" opening on top and bottom of the wing to avoid the flare-up with traditional spoilers. That's what the rule is making illegal for RES.

Did you have a bad day?

Wouldn't that be flaps??!!

Nope, good day. You guys are reading into it too much. It isn't rocket science, really.

[R. Carver]

Originally posted by bwaltz
Wouldn't that be flaps??!!


Nope. Flaps are when the trailing edge of the wing drop. T.E. movement is prohibited in 3.1.6.b
Spoilers are AHEAD of the TE (usually just behind the spar, or thickest part of the wing) on the top surface of the wing. Spoilers on the BOTTOM side of the wing ,such as were popular with a few full-scale birds (and probably models) are prohibited under 3.1.6.c

[bwaltz]

Originally posted by R. Carver
Nope. Flaps are when the trailing edge of the wing drop. T.E. movement is prohibited in 3.1.6.b
Spoilers are AHEAD of the TE (usually just behind the spar, or thickest part of the wing) on the top surface of the wing. Spoilers on the BOTTOM side of the wing ,such as were popular with a few full-scale birds (and probably models) are prohibited under 3.1.6.c

agreed. big birds use them all the time. i would just like to see a dude show up with bottom spoilers to an RES event. I guess you take for granted that everyone knows that RES means spoilers on top. guess not.

[R. Carver]

Originally posted by bwaltz
i would just like to see a dude show up with bottom spoilers to an RES event. I guess you take for granted that everyone knows that RES means spoilers on top.

Don't know about the rest of the country, but around here RES is dominated by the older gents who have been flying the same gasbag for 20+ years, so I guess they've been around long enough to know the rules- unfortunately for me, the above also makes it the HARDEST class to fly in. Doc Agnew with his butt-whoopin' Gemini comes to mind.... :)

[bwaltz]

Originally posted by R. Carver
Don't know about the rest of the country, but around here RES is dominated by the older gents who have been flying the same gasbag for 20+ years, so I guess they've been around long enough to know the rules- unfortunately for me, the above also makes it the HARDEST class to fly in. Doc Agnew with his butt-whoopin' Gemini comes to mind.... :)

true here as well. Lots of SailAires and built ups. Even though the composite ships like the Searcher are making a run at it.

[Mr B....]

The AMA has it's rules, FAI has it's rules, SC2 has it's rules, each club has there rules. The CD has the last word at each contest!

I fly and Mfg RES planes and it comes up all the time about the bottom spoilers. They have been used on planes before the 70s why can't they be used now?
Glass ships, bagged wings should not be in the same class as RES.

A real RES, HiStart, Wood built up wing contest is coming up in September at the SWSA field in CA. The fee for this is potluck that's payment by food.

Fly RES for fun and have a good NO NO - A GREAT TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merrill's Marauder

http://www.mmglidertech.com/images/Merrill%27s%20Marauder.JPG

[R. Carver]

Originally posted by Mr B....

Glass ships, bagged wings should not be in the same class as RES.


LOL...why not?

[thepilotbruss]

To keep the cost down and the competition high.

[R. Carver]

So, the $300 Skybench Skybird would be OK, but the $350 Kummerow Searcher RES would not be?

[thepilotbruss]

As posted earlier the rules are up to the CD. However I still believe the RES competitions are meant to be lower cost.

[shoe]

Originally posted by thepilotbruss
As posted earlier the rules are up to the CD. However I still believe the RES competitions are meant to be lower cost.

If I'm not mistaken this was the original intent of F3J also.

Big floaty glider hooked to a string with a friend at the other end to launch. Simple, cheap, any one can do it. It's turned into 2 man gorilla tows with the latest composite models. It's just competetive human nature to push boundaries.

[Sparky Paul]

Of course, there's always these "spade type" spoilers, as used on the full-scales, like the Harbinger... :)

[R. Carver]

Originally posted by thepilotbruss
As posted earlier the rules are up to the CD. However I still believe the RES competitions are meant to be lower cost.

I don't see in the rulebook where it's even implied that RES be a low cost class...but anyway- I have a vac-bag setup, and I could probably crank out a pretty nice composite RES ship for less than $200, easy... if I provided reciepts for the materials to the CD, would that be OK?
Seriously, if you want to limit a contest to built up planes, fine, but don't call it what it ain't- a RES contest. Any pilot (or CD) worth thier salt knows that all the carbon, kevlar and fiberglass in the world won't help you win a contest. The good pilot wins, no matter how much he spent on his plane.

[schrederman]

Seems to me that I've seen it posted on some board somewhere that the writer of the rules did intend to draw newbies in with a simple, low-cost class but unfortunately, left to our own devices, we forget intents when the rules don't spell them out. I am one that enjoys this class above all others, and wish it had been made an all wood wing, skegless class that would take us back to...oh, wait, that's the NOSTALGIA class. But, what I wanted was a class where I could improve on yesterday's designs with new airfoils, spar materials, glass - kevlar - carbon fuselages, etc....and that's what it is in my opinion. I do long for the builder-of-the-model rule from the old days....even though I built many of my competetors in those days, too. What am I talking about? Hell, just come to Houston with your molded RES and let me beat you with my carbon-sparred Legionair, you'll get the picture...:D

Forgive the ramblings of an old poot that just got back from Eagle Pass - it's been a long week, already.

Jack Womack

[ArnoldC]

Well I really didnt expect this response. Thankyou for sending the link to the AMA rulebook, it answered my questions. When I start building the airplane I will post pictures and such as I go along. And for Jack, come up to Dallas :D :cool:

happy Thermals!
Arnold

[portfoxdesign]

Shoe, what plane have you got for your Icon under your name? looks like a very quick machine.

Steve

[shoe]

Originally posted by portfoxdesign
Shoe, what plane have you got for your Icon under your name? looks like a very quick machine.

Steve


Hey Steve check out the end of this thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117477&perpage=15&highlight=mariah&pagenumber=2
we discussed it a bit there.