Suggest an Open-Class Thermal Ship

[Whizwaz]

Gents: I am looking for some suggestions for a full-house, open class thermal sailplane. Basically, I am flying a Spirit Elite 2m, and I would like to be able to search out farther for thermals. (Also flying an Impuls, Cumic Plus, etc…) The Spirit is fine; it just gets too small too soon. I may compete in the future, so something competitive would be nice. Transportation is not a factor, as I bought a wagon to transport those long 2m pattern fuses I used to fly.

I have been mulling over the Victory SE and Sapphire, sold through NE Sailplanes. They seem very similar, and the price is within my range (under $450). I see no need for a fully-molded ship, I’m not that serious (yet :D ). My biggest fear is shaping the leading edge. I am always really, really careful, but always afraid of sanding the wrong shape, which would ruin the most important part of the airfoil. Would either of these be good aircraft, and are the leading edged pre-installed and shaped?

I value opinions posted here, as you all are rather knowledgeable. If there are any other good open-class thermal sailplanes, (under $450) feel free to voice up and I’ll add it to my list. -- Whizwaz

[Gliderguy]

I've got an Alcyone kit. It has a balsa pre-sheeted foam wing with fiberglass fuse and all the hardware with a good instruction manual. I think this would rival the Victory or Saphire and be a lot less expensive. You can see it at www.nesail.com/alcyone2.html
It would make a great entry level competition TD plane or just a great sport plane. I have it posted in the For Sale section.

Gliderguy

[R. Carver]

Under $450 is going to severely limit your options. Save up $100 more and there are LOTS of great ships to choose from.
I currently fly an NSP Edge Lite in competition, and am VERY happy with it(took 1st place in Unlimited Sportsman at the Tangerine Soaring Champs with it!!). I know of 2 other guys here in Florida that have them and they are very happy as well. One of the guys also owns a Spirit Elite and he tells me they fly very similar.
Most composite-vacuum bagged ships run about the same price and all are VERY high quality, from what I have seen (I've seen MOST of NSP's lineup, you can't go wrong there) No leading edges to shape, ailerons and flaps are precut and hinged, etc..They all look pretty much look the same, too(well, maybe not the Mantis!) so it's really just a matter of picking one out, getting it setup properly and flying the heck out of it until you get really good!! :)

Oh yeah, one more thing: just because it's balsa and Monokote doesn't mean it's not competitive- All the Sisus, Images, Orions and other $300+ planes get beat by Gentle Ladys pretty regularly around here!!

[KevinSheen]

There are a total of 4 Victory C's in our soaring group. 3 of the pilots do extremely well with them! I don't think you can go wrong with a choice like that. There may be lighter, faster larger spanned gliders but the C is a proven design.

If you do decide to get one, make sure you put something solid ( a piece of dowel) between the LE roots. If you land hard, the fuse can develop cracks in that area, the dowel will help but probably not stop it completely.

[Ron Cichowski]

Been flying Victory C for 3 years now. Mostly limited by my abilities at landing. Finish in the top half of the sportsman group I fly with. The plane is a bit on the heavy side at 65+ ounces for light air. But most flight situations do not feature light air and the "C" does well the minute the air destabilizes. I believe the "SE" is a "C" with built up elevators. This might make it come out lighter and require less nose weight and give improvement in light conditions.

The Mantis is $450 and 10 ounces less. It is very good in light air (and has an alternate airfoil available for windy conditions, MH32).
The ship is designed to be "struck into" the landing spot somewhat like a lawn dart. There are a lot of them everywhere I look and they win competitions in skilled hands. I own one. They are as ugly as sin. So far I have been too ashamed to bring mine out in daylight. But they do win a lot of contests!

The Spotdorker (NSP) has all the classic good looks of the Victory and doesn't carry the extra weight. It is a nosecone fuselage that will handle "oops" somewhat better than the open canopy of the Victory (but nowhere as forgiving as the Mantis's kevlar bulb). The plane slows down extremely well for landings. Mine is almost complete and I plan on campaigning it in the 2002 soaring season (unless I give up to peer pressures and start flying the Mantis).

If you watch the sales at NSP you will find most of his bagged ships coming in at $500 some time of the year.

Ron

But if you want to fly RES Open Class and want to assemble a very nice batch of laser cut sticks take a serious look at the Laser Arts Majestic for $150. Builds into one beautiful 56 ounce glider that is a dream in light air, and has room for ballast when conditions kick up.

[R. Carver]

Hey Ron, you wouldn't be interested in parting with the Mantis, would you? I know a fella who's been looking for one..

[Whizwaz]

Gents:
Besides the Spirit Elite, I am currently flying a Cumic Plus (think back a few, um, a lot of years :rolleyes: ). Great 120"+ span sailplane for an RES ship. It's built light, removing as much balsa as possible. (Wing loading around 6oz/sq ft) It flies great: no bad habits. I learned this during a "Free Airplane" launch, where the hi-start got wrapped around the fuse! :confused: It circles really tight, without any bad habits. :p

I also have a Sailaire, but it's not finished quite yet. I just keep tinkering on it between projects. I'll have to buy a winch in order to get it into the air once it is complete.

I am trying to get one really good, full-house open-class plane to stick with for a few years. I guess I am just a computer geek at heart, and like all the weird mixing available in the Futaba 8UAP. It will probably take a year to get all the mixing correct!

Um.. The Mantis is, um, unique? :eek: It must fly really well. I found it here
http://home.att.net/~CASA/Mantis/Mantis_page_Info.htm
The one with the "fuse" actually isn't too bad.

I hope the background helps a little more. Maybe I'm getting in too deep, but I do have a really good teacher on hand to help out. (His comment, "They're all the same once you reach a certain point. Buy what looks good to you.) -- Whizwaz

[Ron Cichowski]

Originally posted by R. Carver
Hey Ron, you wouldn't be interested in parting with the Mantis, would you? I know a fella who's been looking for one..

Nope, I will fly it (maybe in disguise or a neighborhood where I am not known)! :D
The link in the above post will get you to Phil Barnes and he will sell you one. Shipping is cheap and Phil sells at a good price.

Ron

[Ed Franz]

I love my Sapphire, have been flying it for three years now. Mine weights in at 63 oz. I have flowen it with ballast in 25+ winds with no problems.(for the plane anyway) For the money I think it is a great plane, and it looks like a plane unlike a Mantis. A plus is a big fuse that is easy to put the radio in, the Victory fuse is a bit tight. It lands great, and is just easy to fly.

Ed Franz

[R. Carver]

Originally posted by Ron Cichowski


Nope, I will fly it (maybe in disguise or a neighborhood where I am not known)! :D
The link in the above post will get you to Phil Barnes and he will sell you one. Shipping is cheap and Phil sells at a good price.

Ron

Hehe! (picturing a mantis with Groucho nose, glasses, and 'stach on the pod)

I heard Phil is taking some time off from Mantis-building due to other obligations or circumstances, or something like that.
Or at least that's what my pal was told...

[sal]

The new Victory Light has the new Kevlar/ Carbon Fiber wing made famous with the Psyko Light and the SchpotDorker. This new version of the Victory comes in at approx 56-57 ounces.

[Whizwaz]

Sal:
When you are referring to the Victory Light, is this a new plane? I can't seem to find it on your site. I did find the Victory SE and C.

I did notice the Edge Light and the Psycho Light (one in monthly specials, and one in weekly specials, respectively). Were these, or are these, the planes you are referring to?

All these planes look really good to me: I can't see any major differences between them. Maybe I should give you a call directly. -- John P

[Mark Stoffel]

Whizwaz.

I have a Spirit Elite 2M and like it a lot.

I bought it as a starter to get used to flaps and alerons prior to building my Alcyone 3M.

I love using the flaps on landing. It stabilizes the plane a lot and slows it down. You don't get the flat drop that you get with spoilers like on my old Sagita 900, but I found that you just give it some down and fly it into the grass. Again, the flaps make this very easy.

I don't have a good field nearby and I keep landing in trees with the 2M.

A bunch of the guys at work fly power near the plant in the afternoons and I'm getting the itch to go back to power. I did it a few years ago, but gave it up since there weren't any available clubs.

Anyway, I've decided to sell my Alcyone 3M with the f/g fuse in order to get the money for a power plane.

You can check it out on my web page at:

http://home.attbi.com/~m.stoffel/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

It's 121" with flaps & alerons. It's supposed to be a lot like the Spirit with a lot more range. A real floater.

I paid $235 for it with tax and shipping and it's complete and in the box. Never been touched except to inventory it after I got it.

I'll sell it for $185.

[stephen.s1]

Whiz,
You might give some consideration to either the Addiction or the Compulsion (hilaunch.com).

My Addiction w/MH32 @ 58 oz does just fine. If it blows up over 15 kt swap wing rods; alu to steel. Landings are very docile. It can be slowed to a fast walk.

And nobody, nobody builds a nicer composite wing than Fred Sage.

[Whizwaz]

I guess I should have posted a while back, but I gave Sal a call last January, and ordered a Schpotdorker.

Very nice looking plane, and I have it ready for the first flight. It went together with no problems, and Ron has been an asset when I had questions.

I found out about a club that is even more glider-friendly than mine, and will be checking it out this weekend. I have met a few of the members, and they appear to be doing some really fun stuff, like aerotow and piggy-back launches. Can't wait to get it in the air. Hopefully they will host a couple contests, orat least a couple glider-only fun fly events.

[Ron Cichowski]

The only caution I would offer when flying the Schpotdorker would be to familiarize yourself with this ship's low speed handling characteristics with some altitude to spare.

I have a few months experience with this aircraft and am delighted in every way with it's handling. I was very pleasantly surprised with the penetration in signifigant breezes. I watched one fly last Saturday in steady 18MPH gusting 28MPH and it went with the lift and then made it home. (I did not fly mine because I did not want to risk it for this event. used a Laser 2M instead and had a lot of fun and no damage).

Back to slow speed. This ship will get ridiculously slow and still handle well. You can almost walk it to the spot. The caution being that there is no signifigant warning between flying and falling so it is easy to get comfortable on an approach that is very slow and be tempted to slow it a bit more. The ship will fall out of the sky, OOPS! So just do a bit of practice at altitude in landing configuration to explore the fly/fall transition so it won't bite you on final. With the 90 degree flaps you have to maintain a steep descent to keep up flying speed.

If yours works anything like mine I'm sure you'll be delighted.

Ron Cichowski

[Ric Duley]

Hi Guys:
I should have caught this thread sooner - it's a good one but belongs in the "Thermal" forum.
I'm moving it there.

[hayman]

I have two Kevlar/Carbon hybrid lay-up Barnes Mantis with Drela wings, V-Tails. I also have two Futaba 8 channel transmitters as part of the package. Sold as a package.

Email me at hayman@paonline.com for pictures and more info.

I do not wish to ship these, I would like pick-up only. Located in central Pa.

[Gliderguy]

I think he figured it out and bought one about 5 years ago. :D :rolleyes: