Bot Arf

[Sparky Paul]

Examined the new GP Bird of Time ARF yesterday..
Were I into TD, I'd have taken it home.
Beautifully done.

[FlyingPig]

GP = GreatPlanes ? I can't find it on their site or I was wrong.

Cheers....FlyingPig.

[Bernie Wolfard]

Not GP, Dynaflight.

[FlyingPig]

Beautiful :) Especially for the flying stab.

Any room for spoiler ? It might be a good candidate to bring to RES contest.

FlyingPig

[Ric Duley]

GP=Dynaflight=Tower Hobbies

All owned by the same "people".

[FlyingPig]

Ah...that's new secret to me. No wonder why the color scheme looks like original GP Spirit. :)

BTW, I can't find the airfoil info for the BoT. Just curious how well it penerate in strong wind ? I'm sure Dave must have a good trick but I also want to hear from the actual owners.

Cheers.....FlyingPig

[Sparky Paul]

The airfoil is a thin flat bottom. Much thinner than I'd expected for the chord.
It should penetrate when weighted up.

[Miami Mike]

I just got a Tower Hobbies catalog in the mail and I'm seriously thinking of getting one of these ARF BoTs. The price is $149.99, compared to $64.99 for the kit, and the catalog offers a $15 "gift certificate" with the purchase. They also offer a $15 discount for an order over $150, but I'm not sure if I can get both.

One thing that I noticed is that this ARF version has a fiberglass fuselage instead of wood and is somewhat heavier than the Dynaflite kit.

This is copied from the Dynaflite page for the ARF (http://www.dynaflite.com/airplanes/dyfa0500.html), but it must be wrong. I assume it was carelessly copied from the kit description (http://www.dynaflite.com/airplanes/dyfa4502.html):

SPECIFICATIONS
Stock Number: DYFA0500
Wingspan: 117 in (2970 mm)
Wing Area: 1070 sq in (69 dm2)
Length: 49 in (1245 mm)
Wing Loading: 5.5 oz/sq ft (17 g/dm2)
Weight: 41 oz (1160 g)
Requires 2-3 channel radio

The Tower Hobbies description (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDUL9&P=7) is probably more accurate:

SPECS: Wingspan: 117" (2985mm)
Wing Area: 1050 sq in (67.73 sq dm)
Weight: 3.75 lbs (1700 g)
Wing Loading: 8.2 oz/sq ft (25 g/sq dm)
Length: 50" (1270 mm)

Still, a wingloading of 8.2 ounces for such a big plane sounds good, and building the ARF instead of the kit is probably a lot less work. I see that replacement parts are available (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVSEARCH=bird+of+time&FVPROFIL=++), which is nice. The only other thing that concerns me is that the Tower Hobbies catalog says in big letters something like, "Dynaflite's first ARF!" I wonder if that's good or bad.

[Steven Horney]

I just received one in the mail today for a review. I've just started looking it over, but I can say so far that it's a beautiful plane and appears to be very nicely built. It looks like a very fast build as well. The instructions with the kit listed a weight of 60 oz and a wingloading of 8.2 oz/sq. ft., so the Tower description appears to be accurate. I've wanted a BOT for about as long as I can remember (those wings remind me of the old Thermic kits, with their graceful lines), so this is something of a dream come true.

Steve

[Miami Mike]

That's good enough for me! First thing tomorrow...

[KnotEye]

Has Dynaflite improved the quality of the wood and cutting in their kits?

The Dynaflite BoT Kit has been dis'd so many times for poor quality.

I've just pulled out the old RCM BoT plans and I'm getting ready to tackle SCRATCH'n a Bird together.

But... I must admit...
I have a phobia for scratch cut'n ribs.

Ya know... I've been cut'n ribs with a scroll saw for years ... and maybe, after reviewing the BoT's rib plans, a band saw might make the job easier. None of the BoT's rib curves are very sharp.

Feel free to agree, argue or poke fun at.

[Ric Duley]

There is always the laser cut Skybench Big Bird (only 99" though) and the Sky Bird (132").......

[Miami Mike]

Originally posted by Cam123
Has Dynaflite improved the quality of the wood and cutting in their kits?We're talking about the ARF, but there's a thread going on right now about the kit. Click here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98782&perpage=15&pagenumber=1).

[Gliderguy]

Sure looks nice. Anyone know or have an idea how winchable it will be?
Be a real dissapointment to break that one in half.

Gliderguy

[Ollie]

CAM123,

What's so bad about replacing a few pieces of wood in a Dynaflite kit? The Dynaflite kit is cheap enough that the cost of some extra wood and the effort of making a few pieces from scratch is still easier/better than cutting a whole set of ribs accurately.

[TailWind]

The BoT ARF is a great looking plane and a great price for a 3M with fibreglass fuse despite the fact that the wing loading has increased to 8.2 oz/sq ft.

I only wish they had built it with spoilers!
I guess I'm just going to have to remove some of that Monokote and add them myself! Still better that building the kit.

Has anyone done this yet?

[jnowell]

The weight on this ARF is certainly perplexing. I have been flying my BOT for about a year now, and love it! So clean, so fast 9when you need it) and it looks as good as any bird in my hangar in the air.

My problem is this, I built the old DynaFlight kit with the wood fuselage, and bought a nice glass fuse for it at a swap meet. I put the glass one together for tow/winch launch (yes, it's plenty strong) and converted the wooden fuse to Astro 05 electric power. Even with the 05G and 8x2400 NiCads, it's only 52 Oz. The glass powerless version is just under 40 Oz. Did they build this thing with lead solder or what?? I did build as light as I could, but did other things like glassing the bottom of the wooden EP version.

It is an awesome thermal glider, and I'm working towards a 2s6p LiPoly 1200mAh pack for the AULD at DEAF this year. Even the 52 ounce electric version will thermal with the best of them. I have yet to slope it yet (Texas is very FLAT!). I'll see if I can't dig up a few shots of it in the air, nothing looks better!

Jason

[Miami Mike]

Originally posted by jnowell
...I built the old DynaFlight kit with the wood fuselage, and bought a nice glass fuse for it at a swap meet...Does that mean that it's possible to buy a Dynaflite BoT kit and just build the wood fuselage for use with the ARF wings?

Could I cut the nose and put a motor in the ARF fiberglass fuselage, and then swap the wings back and forth to have both a motor glider and a lightweight pure sailplane?

[KnotEye]

Originally posted by Miami Mike


Could I cut the nose and put a motor in the ARF fiberglass fuselage, and then swap the wings back and forth to have both a motor glider and a lightweight pure sailplane?

Judging by the picture in your profile...
Seems that you're willing to try anything. :D

Nice hat ... nice plane.

BTW ... I think that hat is bigger than the plane.


Tips up!

[Ric Duley]

Does that mean that it's possible to buy a Dynaflite BoT kit and just build the wood fuselage for use with the ARF wings?Sure, buy why spend the money on the kit? I'm sure you'd be quite capable of just scratch building a wood fuselage and saving the cost of the whole kit.
Or, just buy an ARF BOT Fiberglass fuse - it's listed here. (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXECH7&P=7)

[Tim Jonas]

I am also BoT ARF'ing, but it is the Esprit electric import. It is here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128251) . Nice kit, thus far, but not a "real" BoT to purists.

[KnotEye]

Originally posted by MrMootsie
I am also BoT ARF'ing

"BoT ARF'ing" heh :rolleyes:

Can this sport get any more silly?

BTW ... I'm building a Bird or Time from scratch... or
should I say.... I'm 'Scratch'n my BoT' ? :eek:

[Ric Duley]

I'm 'Scratch'n my BoT' ? :D :D :D

[Tim Jonas]

Pretty hokey, is right. My wife, peering over my shoulder, thinks we are all geeks.

[Ric Duley]

I never let my wife look over my shoulder......besides, both she AND my kids think I'm a geek anyhow. A dork, too.

After 26 years I don't think I can fool her any more. :p

[Miami Mike]

My Arfbot just arrived from Tower Hobbies today and I haven't had much chance to examine it yet, but I do want to make one early comment: The Dynaflite web site (http://www.dynaflite.com/airplanes/dyfa0500.html) says, "With its broad wingspan and beautiful MonoKote finish, the Bird of Time ARF is easy to see at high altitudes -- a must for experienced pilots aiming for maximum altitudes and flight times."

With that in mind, I was very surprised to see that the bottoms of the wings are pure white! That seems like the worst possible color for the bottom of an RC sailplane. I plan to add some darker covering to make it more visible.

I'll keep following this thread and adding comments while I work on the plane. I want to take my time with it to make sure I get it just the way I want it.

[Miami Mike]

Before & after:

http://www.smacaw.com/ezone/b&a.jpg

Here are some more pics (http://www.smacaw.com/arfbot/). The spots are actually dark blue.

[Ric Duley]

I was wondering how you got such nice round circles, until I saw the pots & pans picture. :p

Good job - that should give you just what you need. Strange that they did it in solid white - they must of had a lot of it on hand. ;)

[FlyingPig]

Mike -- Nice pict. Do you plan to fly it this weekend ? I remember that there will be a FLEA Market this Sunday @ Markham Park. Hope that they will not close the airport.

FlyingPig.

[wingsnapper]

Please let me know if you have to add any nose weight. Thinking about buying this as a quick means of getting a 3M in the air without the building time. 8oz/ft doen't seem too bad for this size of plane, is it?? JS

[Miami Mike]

Originally posted by wingsnapper
Please let me know if you have to add any nose weight.It came with quite a bit of weight already permanently glued into the nose, plus a bag of shot to be added through a small hole that you plug with a screw. The wings are extremely light but the fuselage does seem a bit heavy. I think a lot of that nose weight is necessary because of the elevator servo that's supposed to be mounted in the fin. I'm going to try to think of a way around that.Thinking about buying this as a quick means of getting a 3M in the air without the building time. 8oz/ft doen't seem too bad for this size of plane, is it?? JSIt's not nearly as good as the figure of 5.5 given for the kit, which has a wooden fuselage, but still it is pretty light.

[ec121]

We have already been flying the BOTarf, and I have one about finished of my own. The Thursday glider guys said they had it just about out of sight in a boomer. I put a bellcrank in mine, and a std. servo right near the CG. Plenty of places with all that bracing under the wing. Winches fine with a pulsing launch. We ended up with the hook in the front hole to reduce the pull on the wings. Doesn't seem to affect the launch height. Turns near the ground are nice and level. The owner said that the underwings turn black at altitude, but some stripes or spots wouldn't hurt. I don't beleive spoilers are necessary for sport flying. We were landing it right at the taxiway where we were standing last week. It will glide low in ground effect til you are ready to land it. Just make sure the wings are level or it will ground loop and might hurt the tail when it spins around and hits the ground. The big ones don't like a low wing on landing.

[chillybee]

I received my Bird Of Time Wednesday from Tower and have completed everything except for attaching the canopy and gluing in the adjustable tow hook. The instructions were very straight forward and everything fit like a glove. I have one suggestion and that's regarding gluing the wing braces together. It's not necessary to use epoxy as instructed, but instead, and CA will work fine. The only thing that seemed it would be complicated was installing the flying stabilizor servo inside of the tail. Or you can manage to install a belcrank and run a control rod up to the front of the fuselage. Since I had a few micro servos laying around, I stuck one in and it works fine. The entire glider was very easy to assemble and it shouldn't take more than a couple of evenings to complete. Even the covering seemed to finished quite well. Mine balanced perfectly without any extra weight although the kit comes with small lead ballast grains if needed. The kit also has a molded piece of lead installed in the nose. I'll fly it this week after work and see how well it handles the hi-start. With the low wing loading, it should float really well. I haven't weighed it but all I can say is it's much lighter than any F3B ship I've built.

[Terror Dactyl]

Got mine this weekend and started enjoying the fast put together. I came to the linkage for the elevator and had to do one of those "DOH" shouts, the linkage was missing so the build time is a little out of wack on mine.

The good thing that this set back might bring about is I will get with one of the friendly local vinyl cutters and see if he can make a graphic like the one that came with the BoT but says Lack of time.:D :cool: :D

[chillybee]

Flew it yesterday after work and was impressed. The plan was to just test glide it since the wind was around 15mph and it was overcast but, couldn't resist trying a few "small" launches on a stardard hi-start. I figured that with all of the wind even a standard would pull it up like a kite, and it did. Had to dive to release it but starts were a good 500ft with bungee cord still stretched. It penetrated the wind fine with a touch of down and the thing will float with the best of them. I was extremely impressed on the tight turns while holding my altitude. 2nd flight was around 20 minutes on some weak thermals which I was too chicken to follow really far down wind. Overall, I was totally impressed with the performance. Several people came over asking about it and couldn't believe it was and ARF. Going to try my NE Sailplanes heavy duty hi-start today.

[chillybee]

Used the NE Sailplanes heavy duty hi-start yesterday on my Bird of Time and the wings were fine. I wasn't exactly sure of how strong they were so I started out only partially stretching the hi-start. Eventually I took all 100 steps and got some great launches. So any questions about the wing have been put to rest in my head. Great plane for the price.

[Les Horvath]

Hello All!
How can I remove the nose weight of the BOT?
Les

[jcstalls]

Greetings,

Good question. I was looking at mine today, and it looks to be a solid piece bonded in.
I would hate to have to get a Dremel shaft grinder in there and throw lead around.
Perhaps Dynaflight could help out if asked. I had thougt about having a spare fuse for electric.

Jared

[Les Horvath]

I got one yestarday. All you people are lucky! The covering is all
wrinkeled, the fuse is 21.5 oz, the elev. is 2.9 oz! I think I have to
build an other lighter elev.
Les

[Superman]

I got mine and built it totally stock. Flew it 2 days ago, it was great... Hooked up in a few thermals, did some nice landing though harder to get it right next to you without spoilers... Mine turned out to be 55 oz instead of 60. With the little complaints I have, you still cant beet 150...

-Superman

[Les Horvath]

Hello All!
I have a Brd Of Time for sale. For more info call 570-828-7396
Les

[dgliderguy]

Guys,

I flew my new Dynaflite BOT ARF yesterday, and I am very pleased! Everything fit together well, it is really close to the kit-built BOT (I had one of these, too), and it flies just great. I think they're gonna sell a whole LOTTA these things!

57oz AUW, everything stock, yes I got a HS81 to fit in the elevator servo well, had to make a new elevator pushrod as the supplied one was too small diameter wire, and it kept falling out of the servo horn. Only added 3/4oz lead in the nose, with a JR 500mah flat pack up front and the receiver located behind the HS300 rudder servo. I taped on the canopy for now, but will do up a tray and rubberband hold-down, so I can access my on-off switch, which is inside the cockpit, just ahead of the rudder servo.

Review article will appear in Quiet Flyer, probably the November issue. Way to go, Dynaflite!

Don Bailey

[wingsnapper]

About to send in an order for one of these. Just wondering if a24" servo lead is really enough. JS

[bfretless]

Hi, new poster here. Brief bio: been flying everything from C/L to FF to R/C since about 1970. Guess that makes me one of the "old men" in this hobby. For the last 20 years or so, when time allowed between kids and jobs and things, I've concentrated on R/C soaring in its various forms, esp. flat-land thermalling here in Nebraska. Been reading on this forum about the BOT ARF, and finally went and bought one yesterday at the Local Hobby Shop!

Started in tonight with step one, and all went well except the right tip alignment isn't right. The joiner box in the right tip panel is too low, causing the tip to have a couple of degrees of wash-in when joined, compared to the center section. I'm going to have to do a good amount of work on the joiner to compensate.

Other than that, it looks good. The fuse does feel pretty solid, and the overall workmanship (that is visible) is very good.

Wingsnapper, I think a 24" extension will do if you mount the receiver as shown under the wing. If you want to mount the Rx in front, under the canopy, you will need a longer one. But I haven't got to this stage yet, so take it for what it's worth.

Think I'll be going with the HS-55 in the tail and see if any changes are required after flying it that way for a while. I think I'd like to re-cover the center section and add flaps over the building season.

--
Bill

[wingsnapper]

Having to rebuild a joiner box!? That is exactly the kind of thing I've been worried about when buying an ARF. How about everybody else. Did you have to make major adjustments like this? JS

[Ollie]

Rebuilding the joiner box is one way to correct the misalignment. Trimming the joiner and putting a shim inside the box may be another way. If the joiner needs to be slimmed down, it raises the question of adequate joiner strength and stiffness and may require a stronger joiner material. I would contact the supplier and see if they would replace the defective wing first.

All ARFs suffer from the uncertainty of what lies under the skin. You just have to rely in the manufacturer's customer service, reputation and quality control when you don't build the plane yourself.

[bfretless]

I won't have to rebuild the joiner box, just the joiner itself. It will take removing about 1 mm of material from the top of the joiner on one half to correct the problem. The wing joiners on the BOT ARF are sandwiches of ply and aluminum glued together to make a short plug-in piece having a square cross section. So a Dremel grinder carefully applied to the top edge of the tip side should get the job done pretty quickly.

I'm going to compare right and left tips and center section boxes to see if I can determine where the problem actually lies, before I start modifying anything.

By the way, it could be that most people wouldn't even bother with this -- the actual difference in incidence between the tips is probably less than two degrees. I'm just picky. :-)

--
Bill

[Ric Duley]

Hi bfretless,
Welcome to RC Groups!

[bfretless]

Ric,

Thanks for the welcome! I've been reading RC Groups for a couple of months and decided I want to start contributing when possible.

I got the BOT joiner problem "squared away" so to speak. It took even less effort than I expected, and looks fine now. Both tips line up well with the center section, so I don't think I'll have any trim problems.

I used an HS-55 in the tail. Tried the method given in the instructions, but it just wasn't strong enough to suit me, so I wrapped the servo in masking tape and epoxied it in.

Are most people using the metal wing screws, or would it be better to substitute nylon screws that would shear off in a ground loop?

I just have the rudder linkage left to do, and then balancing to the CG. Should be in the air later this week, work permitting.

--
Bill

[dgliderguy]

I substituted the 6-32 steel hold-down bolts with nylon bolts of the same size. Plenty of tensile strength for the job, and they will shear on a bad (i.e., cartwheel) landing. I also omitted the ugly ply backing plate they give you. The nylon bolts are the pan-head type, and the heads will pop off before they will pull through the holes.

Don Bailey

[RCFlybry]

I've finished building a Bird Of Time wing and tail surfaces from the kit version. I'm into the busy season at work now and won't be able to finish the rest of it for quite some time. I'm contemplating buying the fiberglass fuse, which would pretty much finish off the building, and help me to get in the air much faster. Only question is.. Is this do able?

Bryan

[Ric Duley]

Only question is.. Is this do able?The only drawback is the fiberglass fuse will probably add weight over the wood version. If it's the difference between flying sooner or later, I'd do it.

[Miami Mike]

I'm just finishing up a BOT ARF. The wing measures 9-7/8 inches from leading edge to trailing edge at the center. At 9-3/8 inches back, there are two side-by-side holes, one inch apart, for screws to hold the rear of the wing down to the fuselage. at the center of the leading edge, there are two 3/16 inch X 1 inch dowels sticking out 5/16 of an inch, also one inch apart, that slide into holes in the fuselage just behind the canopy. If that's what your wing looks like, then it will probably fit the ARF fiberglass fuselage.

I can't help you much with the tail feathers though. I've never seen a kit-built BOT, but I have a feeling the tail might be very different.

[RCFlybry]

I just headed out into the shop and made some quick measurements, and my wing is exactly 9 7/8" from leading to trailing edges at the center. The dowels at the leading edges and hold down bolts at the trailing edge could easily be installed to match the fuse. I've taken a close look at pics of the ARF version, and the stabilator set up seems to be the same as well. I think I'm going to go ahead and order it.
I'd love to finish the kit fuse but it could be some time before I'm able to.
Just enough time to fly a day or two a week and that's about it.
Thanks for the detailed info on the wing Mike!

Bryan

[Ric Duley]

Bryan,
Here's another source for a BOT fuselage. I don't know much about it but an email should answer any questions you have.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146047