Hurricane Fans???

[RPM]

I am looking into a Byron replacement fan from Huricane Jets. I am going to put it into a Byron F-18 kit. I would like to get a little more thrust / flyability out of my jet since I live in Co. Does anyone have experience with these units? Are they worth the investment?

Thanks
Roger

[RPM]

So, no takers on the fan upgrade question. I have been looking into a turbine upgrade. Anyone have any advise on what type of turbine to get that would be relitively inexpensive but reliable, and fly the app. 17lb. airframe?

Roger

[gregg f]

Jetcat has a new model p70. it puts out 16lbs of thrust. weight is 42oz. dia is 95mm.
http://www.sitewaves.net/jetcatusa/p70.html ...........gregg

[RPM]

Here is my Byron F-18 after I got it back from paint. The paint needs to be rubbed out before it's done, but I needed to take it to the sign guy to scale the decals. I should have it completed by this time next week. Weight is 18.5 lbs. dry. Maybe the P-80 would be a better choice. What is the learning curve like to go to a turbine? I put a bunch of stuff on ebay today to start the turbine fund.

[RPM]

By the way I need to do some work on the cockpit also. That green must go!

[easytiger]

I'll chime in here. I have flown, and still fly, a lot of Byron stuff. I have two of the hurricane fans, they are good for an extra 10% of thrust or so, definitely worth it.
I have never had the F18, but my understanding, which is second hand info, is that it was pretty large for byron power, and the more successful ones were made into twins with dynamax power. It was supposed to be a pretty nominal flyer on a single byron unit.
At eighteen pounds, at high altitude, I dunno. Sounds like something that will take all of the runway to get airborne, and still be a nominal flyer.
I would look into a turbine. A 12 pound thrust turbine should be okay, a 17 pound like a P80 even better. But you need to get with a local turbine flyer about strengthening the plane properly for turbine use. A bunch of people HAVE converted the Byron F18, but it may be more difficult now that the plane has been built.
Good luck, I wish I could be more optimistic. You can always just TRY the thing with a byron fan, see if it gets off.

[RPM]

I was assuming that very thing, I'm wondering if I just completed a 10+ year static model. I ordered one of those Hurricane fans in the high altitude version, have not recieved it yet. I fear attempting to fly without the added power. I have started setting money aside to buy a turbine but I also fear I cant beef up the airframe enough now that it's built. I will see if it gets off the ground, but if there is one thing I can't stand is a plane that barely flys.:confused:

[easytiger]

I hate to say it, but I think you are right, and I think you are going to be dissapointed with the performance with a 91, hurricane fan or not. The hurricane rotor is good for maybe 10% more thrust, it's not going to transform the plane. I know there have been plenty of 19 pound byron powered planes that DO fly, but HOW they fly is another story. Get around the patch, not much more.
I was at the field yesterday, and my buddy Lucas had a Byron F16 that was built from the ground up for turbine with a P80. It flew nicely enough, and it never got fast enough to be really worried about flutter. I think if you just did some sensible mods, like eliminating any weird old school byron nyrod-and-bellcrank-and-ball-link control runs, just put solid and sensible control runs in there, and kept the speed down, you would be FINE with a P-80 turbine.
But...again, temper this advice with the fact that it is purely speculative. I have NOT built a byron Hornet, and it's not going to be ME picking up the peices if your stab flutters off!
I have heard of lots of problems with people who have ordered from Hurricane...both of my own hurricane fans were bought from other modellers, so I cannot speak from personal experience, but long wait times seem to be the norm for that company.
I have to order some adapter stuff from them, come to think of it.
If this were MY plane...I would cancel the fan order and start looking for a used P80. Or I would sell the airframe and build another just for turbine.

[RPM]

Well your right about the people at Hurricane. I ordered the fan I think in April, still haven’t seen it.
I could re-do the control rods / servo positions, that would be easy enough. I worry about the wings, horizontal and vertical stabs. They are not sheeted, just covered with econocoat also the mounting is not what I'd expect, but I could probably fix that without too much trouble. I would have to repaint them however after I sheet and glass them.
I think the biggest problem is getting the turbine, mount, and pipe into the fuse without doing major surgery.
On second thought the vertical stabs are not removable so the entire thing would need to be sanded down and painted again.
At this point I am ready to start over. Find another kit and go from ground up as a turbine build. Anyone make a F-18 kit that won't break my bank? If the F-18 flees with the fan good, if not, oh well, school of hard knocks I guess.

[easytiger]

I called three times over the past weeks...no response. I needed some adapter parts. I just made them up myself.
Forget Hurricane the company. Bad business.
Cancel your order and put an ad out on the internet for a second hand fan, if you really want one.
Yup, you would have to strip and glass the flying surfaces. I can understand the reluctance if the thing just came out of the paint shop!
Yellow makes two F18s, one is pretty small and only for hot turbine pilots, the other is pretty big and might break your bank. Check out www.skymasterjets.com, they will be coming out with a new one, it will be cheap, and an ARF! I am getting one of their F-15's.
Fly the one you have or not, that's a tough call. You can sell it and get something decent for it, unflown, or you risk it all. I just lost a Grumman F11F Tiger in the weeds last weekend. OS91, hurricane fan, everything. Lost the plug, did not make the field, did not find the plane. Gone. DF is a risky mode of flight, turbine is MUCH more reliable. Think it over.

[monkamarm2000]

For the small difference I couldn't ever see spending the money for a re-pitch. Besides if you want speed just go for a BVM Fan and Motor. But some would say at that range just go for a turbine. They might be right, Although Turbines are costly the support eupipment for them will break the bank! lol Few more years i'll dump my stuff for a turbine. But in the mean time i'll have fun knocking on the 200mph door with my slimer.

Barry

[easytiger]

The BVM fan would do an even poorer job on this particular airframe. You would need to design and build proper ducting, and the plane is so big that it would probably not get up "on the step" enough to make the Viofan work.
On the other hand...back in the eighties, several people successfully turned the Byron F18 into a twin, with two Dynamax(or viojet) fans, with excellent performance, but twin fans is twice the headache. Twin DF is tough. You get really funky vibrations with two engines do 24k and things fall apart.
You don't need a lot of support equipment for an autostart turbine. You need a fuel can for kerosense($150 gets you the best from Jersey Modeller), a can of Coleman Powermax butane, and something to charge your ECU battery. And a fire extinguisher.
With autostart, you don't need the stupid leaf blower or anything. So don't let the "ton of support gear" stop you. Go for it. A good used turbine will cost you $2k. Maybe less.

[easytiger]

PS...the Hurricane fan is more than a re-pitch of the byron rotor. It is made totally differently, it has many more blades and a metal hub, it balances better, runs truer, and runs much smoother than the stock fan. To anybody who has their heart set of flying Byron, pick one up if you see it for sale.

[monkamarm2000]

actually it has what ever you ask them to give you. And it runs truer than a Byron Fan yes but not a Dynamax. There a little better balnced out of the box than dynamax but little work on the beam you can get it cliose enough that the RPM you run with the O.S motor you'll be in good shape. If you go to BVM motor forget it you'll be in the 27,000 rpm range. But then again at ^" a Byron fan is hard to balance. Just check the difference between the Hurricane 6" fan and there 5". I had a twin 4.75" set of hurricane fans a while ago for a twin setup and they didn't hardly need any balancing, even with a few blade shots throughout the years! LOL
I say spend the money on a BVM unit, you'll have a better resale value too.

Barry


Barry

[easytiger]

You know the Hurricane fans. As far as special ordering different pitches...good luck getting an answer from this guy. Three phone calls gone unanswered, I gave up. Same thing last year.
There is also a tremendous amount of hype and nonsense on his site. I remember a few years ago I was looking for a pair for the R105, he promised specially optimized rotors for that engine, in the meanwhile, he started looking for a Rossi 105 on the internet...in other words, he said he had a "specially optimized and tested" rotor, but he had never actually seen the engine.
My faith in the integrity of the Hurricane Fans Co. is pretty minimal.
Both of the Hurri fans I have I got off the internet, after TRYING to order from the company.
Anyway...I would not want to fly a Byron F18 with a BVM setup. I could just see a 400' takeoff run. TWIN BVM? That would be better!
At any rate...this Hornet, at 18 pounds...I don't think it's going to be a happy DF flyer.

[monkamarm2000]

your right. THats why the only reason I went hurricane a while ago was for a Yellow f-18 twin. It worked very well but cost alot to do.

Barry

[easytiger]

You used two 5" Hurricane fans? How did they work out? Any improvement over the stock Dynamax rotor? The dynamax rotor and the byron are apples and oranges. The Dynamax is SO much more refined, much less room for improvement than the ca. 1977 Byron one, made for side exhaust .60 engines!
I have a friend in Australia who has a Byron F15 fitted with two 6" Hurricane TRACTOR fans, he loves is. Neat setup.

[easytiger]

You pointed something else out, too. A BVM or Dynamax system does have much better resale value than a Byron, plus it does open up many more potential airframes to build later.
Still...bottom line is, to me...sell this bird and buy a turbine Hornet instead....

[monkamarm2000]

You got it. And they wren't 5" I think I remember them being 4.75" I had to spin the two Dynamax motor mount tubes, with stator's attached, in a lathe to get them down so I could make a new fan housing in 4/3/4" diameter. It was pretty easy, I just jabbed the whole assembly into a chunk of stiff foam and turned it leaving nice chunks of foam between stators so when I turned it they didn't lay back under the blade and get cut uneven. and hey give it a shot. I had a F-18 with a single fan and it was a blast!

[RPM]

I can see the logic in both of your ideas. At this time I can't even get Hurricane to answer an email to cancel the order. I have paid this guy already and I fear he cut and ran with my $150.00. Who knows, maybe someday the fan will come in the mail, not holding my breath however. I have looked at the airframe a long time and I think I'm stuck with a DF setup. Unless I tear down and loose a considerable amount of money in paint, materials and decals. I think I would be in the same boat with a twin DF, though not to the same extreme. I'll see if this thing will lumber around the sky at all, if not I will file it away as one hard lesson. :( I got the decals on tonight, she does LOOK sweet. I am thinking of a yellow aircraft bug and building it, from the start, as a turbine.

[easytiger]

A fellow I know eventually DID get his fan from hurricane, but it was almost a year. If you paid with a CC, I would just cancel it via the CC company.
I think you are right about not converting this bird to turbine. There are just better ways to go.
YA kits are nice, and a great value for the money.
But take a look at www.skymasterjets.com and check out their upcoming F-18 ARF.

[easytiger]

Take off the "s":
www.skymasterjet.com

[RPM]

The skymaster jets look very nice but is'nt the $1650.00 price tag a bit steep. Do you own one? Is the workmanship as nice as it looks? Anyway, I understand that its' an ARF but I would rather save the money and build it myself. I don't even want to know what shipping is going to be.

[RPM]

Sorry. I meant to tell you I paid with paypal. and they only have something like a 60 day refund policy. Roger

[easytiger]

Too steep? No WAY. Think about this. A Phillip Avonds F-15 kit, shipped, is $1300. I can get one BUILT for $1500 from Skymaster? How much will I spend for glue and paint and glass for a jet of that size?
Plus composite wings. Cheap labor over there. I had a Yellow F4 ARF. Workmanship was outstanding, VERY nice, and it is $1650( I got mine in a trade!), worth every penny when you see it up close. They also have an F-18, forgot to mention that. It's their smaller single one, not the big one, though. From what I have heard, the smaller yellow F-18 is a nice flyer, but for a hot pilot, with a turbine. Fellow I know tore the wings off his ARF F4 on the first flight with a 17 pound thrust turbine, I think the Yellow ARFS are only good for 12 pound thrust turbines.
The Skymaster one is bigger, and purpose-built for turbine.
I have not seen the eagle up close yet, but this same company made the Cermark MB339 and the Viper Jet. I have seen both, and workmanship is very nice. You can see a whole row of Viper Jet fuselages drying in one of the photos on their site.
The MB339 had big issues with structure and flutter, from what I have heard, but as far as I can see, they were engineering, not workmanship, issues. The viper jet is much better, and the F15 looks better still. Far as I know, nobody has one yet. I was about to order one for myself. There is a risk involved, far as I can see, only the prototype has been flown, but it is basically a knock off of a proven airframe, should be fine.
Nobody has flown the F-18 yet, it's all on their website. They look serious.
Anyway...I don't think the price is out of line for what you are getting. It's always a trade of your time versus your money, and assembling and flying an ARF, at least for me, does not have the same buzz as flying something I built myself, with a turbine, there is enough other buzz to go for an ARF.

[easytiger]

Originally posted by RPM
Sorry. I meant to tell you I paid with paypal. and they only have something like a 60 day refund policy. Roger

I don't use paypal, I'm not an expert on their polices, but if you paid paypal via your cc you can still call your cc company. Paypal ain't gonna eat it, if they can suck it back out of hurricane's account, the probably will.
But I'm not going to try to sell you on applying for a refund, it's your deal and only you know what is best to do.
Remember this, too...I have never heard of this company actually taking people's money and not delivering, I think it's mostly a question of customer service and delivery times. Which is totally different.
I'd say you don't need the fan, though, and since they took months to not deliver, and you tried to contact them, you would be within reasonable rights to get a chargeback and not lose any sleep over it.

[RPM]

Point taken on the ARF issue. I looked at Yellow Aircraft's site and I forgot they did'nt post the pricing , so I have no idea what their kits cost. If I recall the skymaster F-18 will be out in October. We will have to wait and see what the price is. Do you know if the pipe comes with the kit? The web site sort of eluded to this.
I will contact paypal and see what they can do for me. If they can't help I guess I will just have to wait and see. I'll try to get a picture up tomorrow of my completed bug. Thanks for all the information. Roger

[easytiger]

Pretty sure the Yellow ones cost $1650. Find Sean Evans, the Yellow rep, and he will give you discount pricing.
I don't think the pipe is included, it's not on the F-15. It IS on the MB339 and viper, but they are not bifurcated.
I would wait until october for making a decision. Skymaster met their July delivery promise made months ago on the F-15, no reason not to beleive them on the Hornet . Nice to be able to see pictures of the progress on the website, it makes things a whole lot more beleiveable!
Good luck to you...

[RPM]

Pictures of the completed bug. Ready to take to the air, maybe.

[RPM]

Another pic.

[gregg f]

your bugs a beauty. very nice:D

[RPM]

Thanks Gregg, I hope it flys half as good as it looks. Roger

[ram-bro]

anybody have a pic of the Hurricane fan? I bought a fan off of Ebay thinking it might be a Hurricane fan andI still don't know

[RPM]

You can see the web site at www.hurricanejets.com they have several photos.

[ram-bro]

thanks, now I know that I dont have a hurricane fan. What it does say on the blades is Tornadoe

[SIDGATES]

I fly my Byron Fan in a TG F-15 at Cherry Creek(Denver,CO). The F-15 is 12lbs dry and take off runs are 300 to 400ft depending on temperature. Top speed is not great but it has been a good jet trainer. The same airplane at Cherry Creek with the Dynamax fan runs 350 to 410ft for takeoff but is somewhat faster in the air.

Based on my experience I think your 18lbs plane is going to be marginal at our altitude using the Byron fan or probably any other fan.

Nat Lancaster at the Jefco club sells Jetcat engines and flies them.

[RPM]

So I think you all have convinced me, I am going to buy a Jet Cat P80 and try to fit it in this thing. I believe I can beef up the airframe / control surfaces enough to take it.
My question is does anyone know of someone that can make the exhaust tube for this combo??
Also if there are other considerations I have not thought about and were not made aware of in this post please let me know.
Thanks All