flying/hovering upside down

[Alan Robson]

Quick survey on hovering/flying upside down!

Do you set up the inverse switch on your trannies?
(if so which channels?)
Or do you do all the inversing in your "head"?

just interested!

Alan.

[Guy Nicholas]

> Do you set up the inverse switch on your trannies?

Negative.

[John Beynon]

> Quick survey on hovering/flying upside down!
>
> Do you set up the inverse switch on your trannies?
> (if so which channels?)
> Or do you do all the inversing in your "head"?
>
> just interested!
>
> Alan.
>
>
in your head...

jb.

[Rhodesst]

>Quick survey on hovering/flying upside down!
>
>Do you set up the inverse switch on your trannies?
>(if so which channels?)
>Or do you do all the inversing in your "head"?
>
>just interested!
>
>Alan.
>

Hi Alan,

Many years ago, before the fully computerized radios we enjoy today were on the
market, the invert switch was added to helicopter radios. When active, it
automatically reverses all channels that normally reverse when flying inverted.
That's collective, for/aft cyclic, and tail rotor. That being the case, the
pilot simply rolls the helicopter inverted, flipps the switch and continues to
fly as if the model were right side up. The problem with this is that if the
collective isn't in "just" the right position, you'll get a collective jump
when the switch is flipped which makes it difficult to transition smoothly from
right side up to inverted and back again in a smooth and orderly fashion.
OTW's it didn't work very well.

These days, thankfully, with the flexibility of our computer radios, we can
setup a fully mirrored collective (-10 at full down, 0 degrees at half stick,
+10 at full up stick) and still have the throttle going in the correct
direction when the stick in all the way down in inverted flight. The
transition from right side up to inverted and back again is seamless and many
of the 3D maneuvers we see these days wouldn't be possible using the invert
switch, at least not as easily.

As for the control reversals? Those are taken care of automatically in the
pilots head, "after" he / she learns how to do it, of course! ;-) And why
not? Fixed wing pilots have been dealing with this since the beginning of RC
time and no one ever suggested putting an invert switch on their radios. It's
just another skill we have to learn when we're ready and as with most things
helicopter related, not a big deal once you learn how.

FWIW,
Fly Safe,
Steve R.

[Gordon Dunn]

Some say that using the inversing switch is cheating- I disagree- but for a
greater feeling of satisfaction I'd rater do the inversing in my head- after
all- anyone could do it otherwise!

gd


"Alan Robson" <alan@radjobs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bagmnp$3h$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> Quick survey on hovering/flying upside down!
>
> Do you set up the inverse switch on your trannies?
> (if so which channels?)
> Or do you do all the inversing in your "head"?
>
> just interested!
>
> Alan.
>
>

[Rhodesst]

>Some say that using the inversing switch is cheating- I disagree- but for a
>greater feeling of satisfaction I'd rater do the inversing in my head- after
>all- anyone could do it otherwise!
>
>gd
>

I flew one of my models with the invert switch active a "long" time ago. I
could do it but was never comfortable with it. First, I've always had a
problem seeing the model upside down. Let's face it, it's just not natural.
Second, I found that I was fighting my fixed wing reflexes and wanting to
reverse certain channels even though I didn't have to. It wasn't a big deal
but it was always there in the back of my head while flying inverted.

When I got my first fully computerized transmitter, I setup for the mirrored
collective and started learning inverted that way. I'm still getting used to
it I suppose but it's a lot better. A few years ago, I tried the invert switch
out of curiosity. Darn near plowed the model a couple of times. I just
couldn't fly it "normally" while it was inverted. I've never activated that
feature again since. These days, I've wondered why they don't just remove the
invert feature all together. I don't know of anyone who uses it anymore.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

[martin]

I am one of very few people in the UK who use the invert switch, never had a
problem in 3 years, but i have got a csm flight sim now and will be learning
to fly switchless soon!

"Rhodesst" <rhodesst@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030521233841.14471.00000114@mb-m02.aol.com...
> >Some say that using the inversing switch is cheating- I disagree- but for
a
> >greater feeling of satisfaction I'd rater do the inversing in my head-
after
> >all- anyone could do it otherwise!
> >
> >gd
> >
>
> I flew one of my models with the invert switch active a "long" time ago.
I
> could do it but was never comfortable with it. First, I've always had a
> problem seeing the model upside down. Let's face it, it's just not
natural.
> Second, I found that I was fighting my fixed wing reflexes and wanting to
> reverse certain channels even though I didn't have to. It wasn't a big
deal
> but it was always there in the back of my head while flying inverted.
>
> When I got my first fully computerized transmitter, I setup for the
mirrored
> collective and started learning inverted that way. I'm still getting used
to
> it I suppose but it's a lot better. A few years ago, I tried the invert
switch
> out of curiosity. Darn near plowed the model a couple of times. I just
> couldn't fly it "normally" while it was inverted. I've never activated
that
> feature again since. These days, I've wondered why they don't just remove
the
> invert feature all together. I don't know of anyone who uses it anymore.
>
> Fly Safe,
> Steve R.

[Beav]

"Alan Robson" <alan@radjobs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bagmnp$3h$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> Quick survey on hovering/flying upside down!
>
> Do you set up the inverse switch on your trannies?
> (if so which channels?)
> Or do you do all the inversing in your "head"?
>
> just interested!

Head. There's FAR too much to think about doing it with a switch and getting
the switch flipped at exactly the right moment isn't easy, plus it's just
not "doable" if you're upside down one second and right side up the next and
upside down the next, then right way up again.


--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk

[Rhodesst]

>
>Head. There's FAR too much to think about doing it with a switch and getting
>the switch flipped at exactly the right moment isn't easy, plus it's just
>not "doable" if you're upside down one second and right side up the next and
>upside down the next, then right way up again.
>
>
>--
>Beav

One other little thing about that invert switch. This may not be all that
common but it is possible.

I met my best flying buddy back in 1988.
While we were getting to know each other, we were talking about the dumb things
we've done or seen others do while flying our model helicopters.

I mentioned a fun fly I'd been to a couple of year prior and there was this guy
flying around, doing the usual (at least for that time) aerobatics and stuff.
He was finishing his flight and making a really nice round house approach to
hover. The approach was very smooth and the model was just at the point where
you'd start bringing the power back up to transition back into a hover.
Anyway, all of the sudden it just SLAMMED into the ground. There was no
warning and everyone that had been watching just about came out of their skins.
It turns out that this guy was my new friend, a couple of years before we
actually met.

Turns out, he had decided to flip the throttle hold switch and let it settle to
the ground on rotor inertia and accidentally hit the invert switch instead.
:-o The hold switch if right in front of the invert switch on Futaba radios.
He said he's never used the invert switch again since then.

I and others have preached the need to be "absolutely comfortable" with the
location and us of the throttle hold switch when learning to do autorotations.
Obviously, the same is true of the invert switch if it's active. I know it
seems like a long shot but I don't know anyone who's flown long anough to get
comfortable with these things that hasn't entered a wrong flight mode at one
time or another. It's just something to think about.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

[Beav]

"Rhodesst" <rhodesst@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030522133400.01985.00000071@mb-m23.aol.com...
> >
> >Head. There's FAR too much to think about doing it with a switch and
getting
> >the switch flipped at exactly the right moment isn't easy, plus it's just
> >not "doable" if you're upside down one second and right side up the next
and
> >upside down the next, then right way up again.
> >
> >
> >--
> >Beav
>
> One other little thing about that invert switch. This may not be all that
> common but it is possible.
>
> I met my best flying buddy back in 1988.
> While we were getting to know each other, we were talking about the dumb
things
> we've done or seen others do while flying our model helicopters.
>
> I mentioned a fun fly I'd been to a couple of year prior and there was
this guy
> flying around, doing the usual (at least for that time) aerobatics and
stuff.
> He was finishing his flight and making a really nice round house approach
to
> hover. The approach was very smooth and the model was just at the point
where
> you'd start bringing the power back up to transition back into a hover.
> Anyway, all of the sudden it just SLAMMED into the ground. There was no
> warning and everyone that had been watching just about came out of their
skins.
> It turns out that this guy was my new friend, a couple of years before we
> actually met.
>
> Turns out, he had decided to flip the throttle hold switch and let it
settle to
> the ground on rotor inertia and accidentally hit the invert switch
instead.
> :-o The hold switch if right in front of the invert switch on Futaba
radios.
> He said he's never used the invert switch again since then.
>
> I and others have preached the need to be "absolutely comfortable" with
the
> location and us of the throttle hold switch when learning to do
autorotations.
> Obviously, the same is true of the invert switch if it's active. I know
it
> seems like a long shot but I don't know anyone who's flown long anough to
get
> comfortable with these things that hasn't entered a wrong flight mode at
one
> time or another. It's just something to think about.

And you can bet good money he's not the first one to do that too Steve. The
thing I didn't like about the invert switch was although it reversed the
required CHANNELS, it/they didn't reverse the channel TRIMS, so if you'd
trimmed for forwards flight, when you rolled inverted and hit the switch,
the thing would stop dead in it's tracks with the nose pointing skywards. It
was too much trouble to make it worth the effort for me, so I only ever did
one flight with the invert switch (JR PCM 9 and a Robbe Avantgarde back in
the 80's).


--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk
> Fly Safe,
> Steve R.

[bob@aol.com]

On Thu, 22 May 2003 18:56:05 GMT, "Beav"
<beavis.original@ntloxoworld.com> wrote:

>
>"Rhodesst" <rhodesst@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20030522133400.01985.00000071@mb-m23.aol.com...
>> >
>> >Head. There's FAR too much to think about doing it with a switch and
>getting
>> >the switch flipped at exactly the right moment isn't easy, plus it's just
>> >not "doable" if you're upside down one second and right side up the next
>and
>> >upside down the next, then right way up again.
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >Beav
>>
>> One other little thing about that invert switch. This may not be all that
>> common but it is possible.
>>
>> I met my best flying buddy back in 1988.
>> While we were getting to know each other, we were talking about the dumb
>things
>> we've done or seen others do while flying our model helicopters.
>>
>> I mentioned a fun fly I'd been to a couple of year prior and there was
>this guy
>> flying around, doing the usual (at least for that time) aerobatics and
>stuff.
>> He was finishing his flight and making a really nice round house approach
>to
>> hover. The approach was very smooth and the model was just at the point
>where
>> you'd start bringing the power back up to transition back into a hover.
>> Anyway, all of the sudden it just SLAMMED into the ground. There was no
>> warning and everyone that had been watching just about came out of their
>skins.
>> It turns out that this guy was my new friend, a couple of years before we
>> actually met.
>>
>> Turns out, he had decided to flip the throttle hold switch and let it
>settle to
>> the ground on rotor inertia and accidentally hit the invert switch
>instead.
>> :-o The hold switch if right in front of the invert switch on Futaba
>radios.
>> He said he's never used the invert switch again since then.
>>
>> I and others have preached the need to be "absolutely comfortable" with
>the
>> location and us of the throttle hold switch when learning to do
>autorotations.
>> Obviously, the same is true of the invert switch if it's active. I know
>it
>> seems like a long shot but I don't know anyone who's flown long anough to
>get
>> comfortable with these things that hasn't entered a wrong flight mode at
>one
>> time or another. It's just something to think about.
>
>And you can bet good money he's not the first one to do that too Steve. The
>thing I didn't like about the invert switch was although it reversed the
>required CHANNELS, it/they didn't reverse the channel TRIMS, so if you'd
>trimmed for forwards flight, when you rolled inverted and hit the switch,
>the thing would stop dead in it's tracks with the nose pointing skywards. It
>was too much trouble to make it worth the effort for me, so I only ever did
>one flight with the invert switch (JR PCM 9 and a Robbe Avantgarde back in
>the 80's).
>
>
>--
>Beav
>
>
>Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
>(with the obvious changes)
>
>Beavisland now lives at
>www.beavisoriginal.co.uk
>> Fly Safe,
>> Steve R.
>
>