What is "Fun Flying" and how?

[Dunc]

Got a Fun Flyer - with a very thick wing and 4 inch ailerons, barn door rudder and an elevator to match. Wingspan is about 41" and it is powered by an OS35.

How do you make a plane like this hover? Is there a special technique? Do you need a special prop eg low pitch?? (I have seen Teddy's posting below ref this.) What other manoeuvres could one try, apart from looping in its own length!!! ;)

Any references elsewhere? (BTW, I am a fairly experienced flyer, 15 years or so and fly all sorts from pattern aerobatics through TwinJets to Sokols.)

Dunc

[Jim T. Graham]

Dunc
What type of plane is it? The first thing you need to do is get the cg back. To get my planes cg right I will fly inverted and it doesn't want to go up or down I'll call it dailed in. The next trick is to put two washers under the front of the engine to get some right thrust in there. I have a profile that hovers great. I pulled them out and it was really hard to hover. Keep your pitch low. I run a TT 36 pro on a profile with an 11x3 pitch. Most would use a 10x4. Thrust is the trick. Speed is bad.
Flaperons and spoilerons are fun to have. Nice harriers and elevators. There are all kinds of things you can do!

[Dunc]

Thanks Billy

Really useful response.

Now, how do you hover and what actually is a harrier?

My thoughts would be that in a hover, you pull up and balance the weight of the plane with throttle, R, A and E?

And a harrier is a kind of hover but one in which you are nose very high and come into land in that fashion????

Thanks again
Dunc

[Jim T. Graham]

Just to warn you, you could almost write a whole book on this.
A harrier is almost a hover and a hover isn't really verticle. When you get the plane completely verticle she will start to spin around (some faster than others). That is called a torque roll.
The best way to enter a hover is act like you are going to do a stall turn. Get flat, cut the throttle and pull up the nose. As you are starting to get verticle and feel the plane about to slip down or fall add throttle. Hovering is all about throttle management, rudder and ele input. If you try and fall out of it go back around. You can force the plane to hover but that is 10x harder than entering the right way. So now she is almost verticle and hanging on the prop. More than like you are going to have to give her a little right rudder due to the way the engine spins. You will modulate the ele to keep her from flipping over on her back or getting flat. A good plane will be balanced so it is almost too easy to go into a hover. Most of my birds are hard to keep out of a hover.
What is the best way to learn to hover? Get G2 or Ikarus flight sim. I would have never had the nerve to hover had I not done it on Real Flight all winter long. If you have G2 I can point you to a plane I have built for G2 that you can download. It is very, very close to the real thing.
What plane do you have? It really matters. I have a a Profile Brother that can hover trainers but he had the 3D brain implant and isn't like normal people.
Harriers next!

[Jim T. Graham]

A harrier is almost a hover. Some guys will kill the throttle and slowly pull back the ele until you start falling flat. That is an elevator. If you were to give it a little throttle and get the nose up that would be a harrier. You steer a harrier using your rudder. If your plane starts bobbing up and down you can mix in some spoilerons (ele up, flaps down) into your dual servo ailerons. I run flaperons and spoilerons on all my birds. My favorite thing is to bring her into to land and start pulling back on the stick. Now she is coming in at a really high angle of attact. A slight breeze is a big help here. The trick is to watch that throttle. If you don't do it right you will drop a wing. My birds will harrier right down to the deck AND ALWAYS want to drop a wing right before I touch down. So I always punch some power in right before I figure she is going to stall. With a touch of wind and throttle management you can drop it on the ground with no roll out. This always gets the guys on the flight line to Ohhhh and Ahhhhh.

[Dunc]

Billy

thanks - really useful

The plane is one that I bought second hand so don't actually know what it's called. Its a stick fus, and really thick wing section. I keep it at my holiday place so can't attach a pic, except for the wing section!

What you have given me so far will be a great help. Again, many thanx.

Dunc

[Jim T. Graham]

That looks like a competition funfly plane. A purebreed. Not like my profiles. Should be a great bird from what I have seen of Jerry Smith flying one. You won't get any knife edge out of it but it should do everything else!

[Dunc]

Billy
Again, many thanks. I have all of next week to practice and will buy a few extra props tomorrow. Already got 4 gallons of fuel!!
Dunc :D

[Jim T. Graham]

Dunc
Be sure to report back how it flew and what you were able to do with it.

[Dunc]

Will do!
D

[Dunc]

Billly - wasn't able to get the right prop in time for my holiday last week. May have another chance in 2 weeks time and will then let you know! ;)
Dunc

[iloverc]

hey i saw jerry smith fly his on saturday and sunday man he is goodand i would heave to agree that looks like a competition fun fly

[Dunc]

Have got a 11 x 4 prop and a 10 x 4 prop for my time away next week. Hope that they'll be OK for my OS35. Also found a UK site for 3d/fun fly stuff which has been useful as there are a few videos as well. www.3drc.info

Dunc

[Jim T. Graham]

I run an 11x3 on my TT pro 36. Most guys run 10x4. If it's your vacation I'd bring more than a few extra props. Would be a real drag to fly because of a broken prop!

[Dunc]

:D :D Thanks Billy

[Dunc]

Guys

Having fun with my plane and the 11 x 4 prop! Really challenging to balance rudder, elevator and throttle. Tend to use too much power and climb. Have about 2 hours a day practice time. :D

Great to crusie in on tickover, raise the nose and add some power for a high AOA float past!

However, when I do get "vertical", I sometimes fall out when I'm trying to use less throttle. Suspect that the CoG may be too far forward. I'm marked on the attached pic where the current CoG is, does this look right? Should it be further back? I've added numbers for easy reference!!

thanks
Dunc

[Jim T. Graham]

Is that right on the spar?

[Dunc]

Yes, spot on the spar. My Livewire had it's CoG much further (relatively) far back.
Dunc
PS Put in some left thrust and it's better but still need some right rudder (when vertical). Need more left thrust???

[Jim T. Graham]

I always put in right thrust. Usually one washer heighth with do.
You may want to try a little bit more aft cg. Maybe try an inch?

[Dunc]

Just how much right thrust?? I already have one washer in!
Dunc

[Jim T. Graham]

Yep just one washer under each bolt usually does it for me.

[fumblefingers]

Way back in the late '60's. early 70's, I was building for sale, a low wing, sort'a square uglistick type of plane.42"span. .Powered by the then current Fox 36X, The one with 3 needle valves. It seems that I was the only one that could get this carb to run right. Tick over idle, smooth power throught throttle range. The plane was about 2 lbs. with old Kraft metal airborne system. I could actually place it on the tail, throttle-up and release and it would VTO. It would slow down nicely. I could raise the nose, and it would sort-of harrier. That was before this was a known maneuver. I never tried the hover, but it probably would have. I miss that old style Fox engine.

[chriszuma]

hey, what is the engine/weight ratio requirements for hovering? i want to try it, not sure of my OS 46 is strong enough

[Ulf Rieder]

Originally posted by chriszuma
hey, what is the engine/weight ratio requirements for hovering? i want to try it, not sure of my OS 46 is strong enough

you should have at least a thrust to weight ratio of 1.5 : 1. I always like to have 2:1. This will give you enough power to escape all of the low 3D stuff with auhority. What plane do you have for the OS 46, and how much does it weigh ? Also, is it the 46FX ?

ulf

[RonHill]

Billy Hell,

I have G2 what kind of plane can I use to learn to hover on it?

Ron

[Jim T. Graham]

You need to download the UltimateBillyHell. Start out with it the way it comes and slowly make it smaller and smaller.
http://www.theprofilebrotherhood.com

[plasticjoe]

Billy,

I have a showflyer and it has an OS .61 FX on it with a macs pipe. I am currently just putzing around with it, was interested in what would be a good prop to use on it for #1, 3d hovering, and also just nice fun fly flying. Also if you are familiar with it's CG, what would be a good placement for that ? I am currently flying it with a 12x5 prop and the CG 2 5/8" back from the leading edge. just curious what your suggestions might be. thanks for your time

[Ulf Rieder]

I would try a APC 13x4 or 13x5 prop. You want bigger diameter and lower pitch. I think the 12x5 might be to small. Try the 13x4 first.

Ulf

[Jim T. Graham]

I agree. We are running a 14x4 on ours and that is what I'm going to put on mine. I don't know the CG just yet but I'll find out. I'm building one right now. So far, so easy.

[plasticjoe]

Cool, I'll give that a try ,so bigger is better eh ? haha I am headin over to the hobby shop tomorrow so I'll pick up a few more. So HL ever start carrying the matching covering for the showflyer ? Just curious, incidents happen haha. Have a great day and thanks for the info ! :)