Custom built Aero 45

[ClosetRCModeler]

Hello all,
I am building an Esprit models Aero45 for a fellow Ezoner. This kit is huge! 64" wingspan for twin 480's. Check out the world map size plans and the milk jug sized canopy. The X-acto knife is for size reference.

-CRCM

[ClosetRCModeler]

There is a lot of wood in here, but assembly goes fast because the parts are so big.

-CRCM

[dw1122]

Can't believe there's a dedicated flight sim for this one:

http://www.wipamodel.cz/flash/flash_gb.htm

[aau007]

That's not a flight sim. It is an Aero45 falling from the sky.

[kartman24]

is the aero from a kit?, my dad used to fly a 145 here in england, if so where is it available to buy?----martin

[max z]

my dad used to fly a 145 here in england

This one?

[max z]

Or this one ?

[kartman24]

no, neither of those, though G-APRR was based at elstree where ours was, RR was a 45, my dad`s was G-ATBH, a red and white 145. at one time there were 2 flyable 145`s and 2 flyable 45`s based at elstree, i think there were only a couple of others in the country.----martin

[ClosetRCModeler]

Is this a boat or an airplane? This kit is very nice... The instructions and plans... are not! Anybody speak Chech?

-CRCM

[Jindra M]

Originally posted by ClosetRCModeler
Is this a boat or an airplane? This kit is very nice... The instructions and plans... are not! Anybody speak Chech?

-CRCM
I do, what is the problem. I love to see your Aero fly. It is really one of the two most beautiful post-war Czech designed airplanes. The othet one is L-200 Morava which could be admired in the Aspach article at the E-zone.

Jindra

[ClosetRCModeler]

steven smerov
kryci zebra
nabezna lista
pomocny nosnik
sedlove zebra
lamely obsivky trupa
horni oblouk obrysu trupu
sedlo vyskovky
postranice troubu
bocnice trupu - zadni dil
lety podel
dolni oblouk obrysu trupu
zamek kabiny buk

Thats just for starters!

-CRCM

[Blue Bird]

Jindra,

I couldn't agree more ... both of them are on my building list, right next to Canadair CL-415! ;)

[dw1122]

Yeah, the Aero 45 and the Morava are very beautiful planes from that era. Somehow they remind me of old movies :) . Too bad Espritmodels.com does not sell the Morava anymore. They said the manufacturer of the Morava kit is out of business.

CRCM:

I found these (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=czech+english+dictionary) online Czech dictionaries.

[Jindra M]

Originally posted by ClosetRCModeler

steven smerovky = fin spar

kryci zebra = "covering ribs" can be also vent covers or rib caps need to see the plan ?

nabezna lista = L.E.

pomocny nosnik = help spar

sedlove zebra = "saddle ribs" difficult to say without the plan, can be wing saddle related parts

lamely obsivky trupa = fus. planking

horni oblouk obrysu trupu = upper part of the fus. backbone, part you use as a building plane for the each half of your fus.
sedlo vyskovky

postranice troubu = expecting spelling error "troubu"? Can't place it :confused:

bocnice trupu= side part of the fus.

lety podel = grain lengthwise

dolni oblouk obrysu trupu = lower part of the fus. backbone, part you use as a building plane for the each half of your fus.

sedlo vyskovky = horizontal stabiliser saddle


zamek kabiny buk = canopy latch beech (locating pec of your canopy?)

Thats just for starters!

-CRCM

Hope it helps......


Jindra

[ClosetRCModeler]

Here's progress to date.

Jindra,
Thanks so much. It is hard to think back 10 years, and imagine that 10 years later, I could build a model for someone in california, from a kit made in the Czech Republic, and have some one from the Netherlands help translate the plans. And all of us can looka t the same model on this simple, silly RC groups discussion board. Imagine what we could accomplish if we used our powers for good!

[ClosetRCModeler]

one more pic:
Inside of a whale

[goshawk]

Ishmael would be impressed.

[Blue Bird]

wow ... great pics! Keep up the good work and post as many pics as possible ... ;)
Do you know, who is producing the kit in Czech republic?

[max z]

Imagine what we could accomplish if we used our powers for good!

I think we are! :D

Max.

[max z]

Do you know, who is producing the kit in Czech republic?
www.wipamodel.cz
Max.

[Jindra M]

Originally posted by ClosetRCModeler
Here's progress to date.

Jindra,
Thanks so much. It is hard to think back 10 years, and imagine that 10 years later, I could build a model for someone in california, from a kit made in the Czech Republic, and have some one from the Netherlands help translate the plans. And all of us can looka t the same model on this simple, silly RC groups discussion board. Imagine what we could accomplish if we used our powers for good!

It's too nice to be true, weeeeeeeeel I'm cheating a bit. I'm Czech living in the Netherlands :D Psssst don't tell anyone. BTW eho designed this beauty? Is there any name on it? (Raska, Walek etc?) Maybe an idea, this one has no ailerons has it? I would install them, can't be so difficult.


Jindra

[dw1122]

Originally posted by max z
I think we are! :D

Max.

Absolutely! Actually I am the lucky one whom CRCM is building the Aero 45 for. I like to thank you all for lending a hand in the process. CRCM is doing a superb job, don't you think? That plane is designed with ailerons but CRCM is designing the flap on it, he told me it is a "single surface from nacelle to nacelle":confused: I guess I'll have to find out from more pictures. To make a more complete plane I also contemplated the idea of retracts but I'll defer to CRCM's judgment on the feasibility.

Jindra, I promise I won't tell:D

Dixon

[ClosetRCModeler]

Here she is...
The rudder and fin are all framed up and the cool linkage for the flying stabilizer are in place. All I need now are a pair of servos for the tail.

Jindra,
I don't see any names on the plans. The model does come equiped with ailerons.

-CRCM

[ClosetRCModeler]

Here is the stab built up and installed on the rudder with the linkage working nicely. This is the neutral position. I will be making some modifications to this model for DW, and some for me. For example:
Removeable stabilizer halves for eady shipping/ assembly
Add servo hatch to rear side or bottom of fuse
Flaps to extend from center to nacelle
More to follow as the model develops

[ClosetRCModeler]

"up"

[ClosetRCModeler]

"Down"

[aau007]

Does the whole elevator rotate on an axial? :confused:

[ClosetRCModeler]

I need to get the servo mounting tray fabricated before I can button up the fuselage. The tail is just about done. The tail wheel is installed and is very smooth and solid. The stab and rudder are covered with the primary color, and look pretty good. On to the the wings and nacelles, or as they translate them "gondolas".

Yes, the whole stabilizer pivots on a wire rod. I call it a "flying" stabilizer. So no seperate elevators to build.

[ClosetRCModeler]

Heres a shot of the wing. Simple construction compared to the Fuselage.

-CRCM

[ClosetRCModeler]

All of the servos have arrived, and I'm ready to closer it up.

[bob the builder]

I was surfing the web and came across the Aero 45 and (wanting to build a twin) put it on my to do list... and now, MAN! I did not realize how big this puppy was. I would have to burn some serious political capital to get this one past my wife. It's looking really nice CRCM.
bob

[Peter Haworth]

For any budding scratch builders out there, you may also consider contacting Tom Hunt at Modelairtech. He has a plan for an Aero 45 which, when I got a copy for one of my customers several years ago, was, to my memory, not 100% complete but good enough to build from, even though it wasn't part of his normal plans range. It may be worth contacting him to see whether he is still making copies available.

Peter from the state of Tas in the land of Oz (original Oz E-Flight owner)

[ClosetRCModeler]

Unfourtunatly the last several days of work has not been the exciting photo type of progress. I have all the servos and wires installed now, and the wings are sanded and nearly ready for covering. The rear of the fuse is closed up and looks pretty good with the shell intact.

[ClosetRCModeler]

This model is surprisingly light considering the size of the parts and the style of construction.

Fuselage with center wing section, 2 servos: 11.6 oz
both wings, 2 servos: 3.5 oz
all 3 tail parts covered: 1.25 oz

this puts the model at a respectable 1lb, and less than an ounce. Feels very light for its huge wingspan.

-CRCM

[ClosetRCModeler]

Nice curves of the fuse

[Gordon]

Wow, that's a light-looking structure and beautifully built too.

Is that a carbon tube wing spar? What is the plug-in joiner made from which links the centre-section to the outer panels?

Gordon

[ClosetRCModeler]

Gordon,
There is one Ply dihedral shaped joiner and 2 steel wires bent to the dihedral angle. The wires plug into Brass tubes in the outer wings. I could not figure out how the plans showed how to do this, so I just glued some tubes in to make sockets. The Wings are a tight friction fit.

Weekend's progress:
Here you can see the amount of carving and sanding taking place. It is unmistakingly an Aero 45 at this point. The fat fuselage and skinny nacelles are very unique. The wings are finished and covered in the primary white color. Trim to be red.
The servo wires and hatches were custom fitted, as the kit did not provide for them.

-CRCM

[ClosetRCModeler]

The Landing gear is installed and feels quite robust. I will have to drill out the wheels as they did not match the pre bent wire. I actually added a few peiced to the nacelles to beef them up. I laminated some 1/16" balsa crossgrain as the nacells have a great deal of vertical grain on the sides that was very fragile. I also added a few square trusses to lock in the assembly. For the few grams of balsa I added, the nacelles are twice as strong now.

All that is left:
Design and build Flaps (design in head, but not on paper yet)
Run wires for the Motors
Close up the nacelles.
Carve nacelle tail blocks
Carve Balsa nose (Can't find in kit?)
Cover the Fuselage
Hinge the Rudder and add Servo Linkage
Trim model with red Accents
Build canopy assembly
Add wheels all around

No sweat! Even the last few details add up to a lot on a kit this size. I cant wiat to see it covered.

-CRCM

[dw1122]

Whoa! Some serious building job - very impressive. This is one mighty big plane, looks much bigger on your bench than on the Esprit site. Not that I didn't know its span is 64", guess perception is different when there are things around, like tiny servo wires.

Does this look like a draggy plane? Wondering 6x4 props on 2 speed-400's will suffice.

[max z]

Wondering 6x4 props on 2 speed-400's will suffice.

Yeah, why don't you give yourself a better chance by installing gears and 8x5's or 9x5's? They would probably match the scaled down originals better too, see my post of G-APRR somewhere above.

Max.

[dw1122]

You're right. Think I have a couple of old s400 GB. The Esprit site also recommends Mega 16/15/6 runing 9x6 prop, wonder how much better is Mega v. geared 400.

[Megowcoupe]

Give it some decent motors...such a building job deserves them. However, I might be inclined to go Axi or PJS- I'm guessing that 100 watts a side would be fine. Try to go gearless- the lack of racket is nice. If going brushless- you might be happier with two battery packs- you definitely should use two controllers. From the looks of the bird- the nacelles are the furthest point forward, and I'm betting that noseweight becomes an issue. Thus, two battery packs, one in each nacelle should help. CC controllers allow you to run BEC off both controllers, so no worries about running out of servo juice.

Sam

[ClosetRCModeler]

I have no hands on experience with brushless motors (yet) But I think the Watts per pound would be a good way to figure the power required. I think the airframe will work out to about 1.5 lbs, with 1 lb of motors and batteries you would have about 2.5 lbs. For a scale to sport model you can get a way with 50-75 watts per pound. This would require only about 125-200 watts total. So, 100 watts per side input should be very comfortable to fly. Sp400 are only good for about 75 watts, so you would be on the low side with 150 watts input. This would give you "trainer" type power. s400 motors and direct drive props are pretty inefficient, so 150 watts through a brushless with larger props would give you more watts output.Keep in mind I did not use a computer program for these numbers, so I could be off by a few percent! I like to have just a little more power than would be scale just in case...

Later,

CRCM

[vintage1]

Yes. Geared 400's at a minumum I'd say. Long can 400's will net you a bit more, or a pair of proper geared 480's on ten cells would be ideal IMHO. Ratios I have used on 6v 400's are 2.33 on 8 cells with 8x6 or 9x6 props, 3:1 with 10x7 props. About 75W a side is doable on 8 x CP1300.

The Graupner stock 480 geared 4:1 on 11x7 props maybe is another starting point. That will do a very easy 100W a side at around 10A per motor.

BUT for 20A that is 10xCP1700 or so - thats a pound for the batteries alone. I'd reckon on a pound and a half for decent performance.

I have a formula somewhere that roughly equates watts per pound to motor and battery proportion of teh total airframe. !00W per lb means half the total is the power train, and 50W/lb is a quarter...so a 1.5lb airframe will be 3lb at 100W/lb and 2.25lb at 50W/lb

So the 2.5lb target should net you about 60-70W/lb overall.

DD 400's will simply be revving too hard to get decent prop efficiency on such a large slow model.

[dw1122]

2.5 Lb with batt.??? The Esprit site says 50~55 oz. CRCM you sure built it light!

At 100W per side it looks possible to put separate batt packs on each side. 8 X KAN 1050 or 1400 in the nacelles perhaps? The nacelles look almost as big as a miniflash to me :) Now I just have to get FAA to certify it to fly on a single motor.

[ClosetRCModeler]

Maybe I gessed badly. Figure 2+ lbs plus batteries.

-CRCM

[Megowcoupe]

If it were up to me- I'd look around for some Turbo 450 motors- readily available in Europe, and even cheap. Run them on 7 cells, and an 8 x 4 prop. The motors aren't that light at 4.5 oz per motor- but they're at the extreme front of the airplane. If you need to save weight at that point- go to li-poly batteries-, but I'd bet that a KAN 1400 pack will supply enough watts and should weigh about 7 ounces apiece. But your power system is 1.5 lbs. This will nudge things up in power- over 100 watts easily per side. CP 1300s get you closer to 140-150 watts per side. I used such a power system on a Buzzard Bombshell- worked very well.

By the way- the watts/lb stuff doesn't work well for cheapie ferrite motors.

Sam

[ClosetRCModeler]

Here is a shot of the nacelle jsut about ready for covering. Note the screw hole in the rear balsa block

[ClosetRCModeler]

Here is the access to the wiring from the fuse, through the wing, into the fairing, and finally into the nacelle.

[ClosetRCModeler]

Here are the custom fitted flaps in the up position. Note position of the Throttle stick

[ClosetRCModeler]

Here are the flaps fully extended. Flaps are pluged into throttle channel.

[ClosetRCModeler]

Heres a shot of both flaps down. Any suggestions on wether there should be a center flap section?

[ClosetRCModeler]

Finally all the wood work is done! Covering of the fuselage has begun. It is challenging, but also pretty fun. The carving got to be tiresome because i was just turning big blocks into smaller blocks, and it wasn't very difficult, just time consuming. Now the covering has captured my attention because so much is required. This baby will be in the air before long.
Last problem will be.... How to ship?

-CRCM

[dw1122]

What is the minimum LxWxH do you think is needed to fit everything in? Are the fin & stab removable? I'm thinking FedEx ground but still scratching my head!

[smsgill]

You may want to contact Greyhound Buslines for shipping. I know you can ship pretty big boxes (bigger than USPS or UPS will accept) for around $50.

Scott

[aau007]

I personally do not like Greyhound. If you have seen how the drivers shuff the luggages into that storage area in the bus, you will be thinking if the plane will arrive in more pieces than necessary.

FedEx ground does not use dimensional weight like UPS. They have three rates for ground, regular size (under 72" girth), OS1 and OS2. This will make your shipping cost more predictable.

Goto www.fedex.com and they give a fairly accurate estimate once you figure out the box size.

Couple of precautions. I have heard/read twitches about shipping models with FedEx ground. Make sure you do NOT ship the plane totally assembled. Detach anything that can be detached and mark the content to be Model Airplane ARF "Kit". The "Kit" is important for some reasons if you need to file insurance claim for shipping damage. All carriers only pay for replacement cost "up to" insured value, not THE insured value. Be sure to factor in labor cost in the value of the entire item. Unless you are shipping with a wood crate, please mark on all sides of the box "Top Load Only". Even a good cardboard box can get smushed up pretty good by a Dell fileserver on top. Secure the detached parts in the box nicely so placing the box upside down will not damage any content. In general, nothing should moves inside the box.

[ClosetRCModeler]

aaU007,
Thanks for all the good advice!
I have had no trouble shipping with usps in the past with big boxes.
I can leave the wings detached (obviously), I can also detach the stabalizers, wheels and canopy. This should put me in the neighbor hood of 26wide,12high, and only about 48 long. Its the 26x12 that will make it cumbersome.
I know... Road Trip to California! I'll bring some planes and we can have a good ol' time! I could get it there faster than usps prolly! Ha, oh well, back to reality.

-CRCM

[dw1122]

CRCM, if you take a trip down here we can all go to my favorite schoolyard and maiden the bird there :)

Never paid attention to shipping etc until now. Just found in RCUniverse this is an often discussed topic. Here's a thread on Greyhound for example:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35926&forumid=143

Anyone heard of ForwardAir?

[aau007]

Originally posted by dw1122
CRCM, if you take a trip down here we can all go to my favorite schoolyard and maiden the bird there :)


Then ClosetRC can take it right back to SC for repair. :D I can have my camcorder ready for taping an Aero45 launching into a basketball backboard. ClosetRC, please build him a spare. Second time around should be easier.

[ClosetRCModeler]

Good news. The covering is coming along Nicely, and one more trip to the hobby store in the morning for another roll of white will have this bird clothed. I weighed it will all the goodies on board and came up with an impressive 19.36 oz! All you need to add are the weight of: Drive system, Speed controller, Receiver, and Battery! Of course there will be more covering and trim, a few wheel collars... But I am very pleased with the lightness of this plane. Should float nicely.

[ClosetRCModeler]

Well that will likely be the last plane I build from Esprit Models. It is a nice kit, But requires a huge investment in time and thinking! I think I'll stick to laser cut models for a while. They go together so quick it is as if you could put all the parts in a bag, squirt half an oz of CA glue in and shake vigorously to get a framed up model!

-CRCM

[Blue Bird]

Beautiful!!! ... more pics, please :D

[Spaaro]

Absolutely gorgeous! Such sexy lines, needs a lady's name.

Thanks for the high watermark of finishing for us to aim for.

[ClosetRCModeler]

This plane is a thesis on covering compound curves. I don't think there is a flat section on this plane! I am having a lot of fun with the covering. beats sanding and carving balsa blocks!

-CRCM

[ClosetRCModeler]

It always impresses me what a few stripes can do for a white airframe.

Oh, and thanks for the compliments.

-CRCM

[Megowcoupe]

That's really light! Very impressive! That changes the recs. for power systems- no wonder they said you could use 400s. No reason to go brushless on this bird if you can use decent ferrite motors- One system I like a lot is the MTM S-300 Wasp geared 8:1. They're not cheap, but very well done- based on a 280BB. That should easily swing a 10 x 7 prop- and now you get to go to one speed control and a single battery, assuming you don't need too much noseweight.

Sam

[dw1122]

Thanks for the update. You're certainly right about the trim stripes making a big differrence. It is absolutely beautiful; and the weight, or the lack of it, well I never imagine a 64.5" span scale plane can fly on two 280's ??!! Now it really becomes a possibility but that Wasp cost as much as a Mega brushless sans controller of course. - DW

[Megowcoupe]

Yes, the MTM S-300 isn't cheap- but it does have a nice sturdy gearbox. All parts are replaceable. I'm very hard pressed to come up with a brushless alternative that works as well at swinging a large prop- a Mega 7 turn will swing the 11 x7 SF prop as well on 7 cells, but it takes 14A or so to do so. I think the best brushless bet is an Astro 010- geared 4:1 on a 3 cell pack of li-pos will do it handily. I get away with it on my Wasp with an 8 cell pack of 720s- and they're not being pushed- probably 5-6A instead., Plus, as you point out, there is a significant difference in controller cost. However, if cost is not significant- very hard to argue with the 010 or perhaps now the razzors.

Sam

[smsgill]

Will an 11" prop clear the fuselage? In my humble opinion I would think the Mega 16/15 series would be a perfect match. I've got two Mega 16/15/6's to use in mine along with 8x6 APC E props. ZB over at Esprit Models uses this setup in his Aero 45 and raves about the performance. Anyhow, my 2 cents.

Later,
Scott

[dw1122]

smsgill: Both your comments and Motocalc result (I know Megowcoupe, I know :) it's an estimate and can be off) suggest Espritmodel's recommendation of 9x6 on Mega 6T is overkill. Does your Aero have any bad habits etc.?

[smsgill]

Don't know as I haven't built it yet. I'm going with the 8x6 APC's though not a 9x6. I'm planning retracts etc for mine so the extra power and speed will be nice to have on tap as I'm sure mine will be heavier. Anyhow when I get around to building it I will update everyone on the performance.


Scott

[ClosetRCModeler]

Smsgill,
Let me know if you need any help with the build as far as instructions, translation, hints, etc.
-CRCM

[smsgill]

CRCM,

Thanks for the offer, I'll definately take you up on it. I'm glad you started this thread because I will refer to it frequently during my build.

Thanks,
Scott

[max z]

I've collected a number of pictures on the Aero 45 and 145, both from the net and from a magazine article. Let me know if they are of interest, and I'll post them here. Some you have seen already higher up in this thread. There's a rather good b&w picture of the instruments panel, although partly obscured by the seat.

Max.

[max z]

and here it is:

[ClosetRCModeler]

Here she is in all her glory
Next project: Scratch build bullet proof shipping container!

[ClosetRCModeler]

closer

[ClosetRCModeler]

From another angle

[ClosetRCModeler]

Contrast on the bottom panels for visibility. You'd have to get it out pretty far to miss it. I think this plane will be exceptionaly easy to maintain orientation. The shape is so hard to miss.

[Blue Bird]

She is a real beauty ... I love it! :)

[Blue Bird]

Err ... I mean her.

Cheers,
Bostjan