can anyone Identfy this old-timer?

[Tom Hunt]

Hey Gang
I got this model in an estate liquidation. From the dryness and color of the wood, I suspect it was built in the late 60's, early 70's. I got the model with the wings covered with silk and doped. The tails were done that way also, but were full of holes, so i stripped and recovered them in Clearfilm.

The fuselage was uncovered. Looked like it was intended for .09-.15. I had to completely re-glue the fuselage as all the joints were failing under even a slight load. I soaked each joint with thin Ca and then went over it again with thicker stuff as the thin got soaked up in that bone dry wood like crazy!

I painted the entire structure with Krylons new Latex spray paint (not cheap!) I then covered just the aft section with Clearfilm.

The model has about 400sqin. I decided to put in a small Mega 16/15/3 on my H-100 belt drive at a special 4.8/1 ratio so i could swing a BIG prop on 7-8 cells.

The model, even though expecting it to balance at about 60% of chord due to the large lifting tail, looked like it would still be tail heavy. I decided to put an 8-cell CP-1300 pack on board as far fwd as possible. for the first flight I added a 2 ounce Harry Higgly heavy hub under the spinner.

The model weighed in at 36 ounces RTF. I went out to a small field nearby the house to try it out. with an 11 x 7 APC E prop, it draws only 12 amps. It leapt off the ground with full up elevator, but it needed it all! It was definately NOSE heavy. I dropped the 2 ounce heavy hub for the flying session you see in the pictures. It still is a tad nose heavy, but is much more managable. It was rather breezy this day so I did not fly it very long. I suspect flights on this pack will eclipse 15 minutes as I can throttle way back.

If any of you old-timers out there can identfy the model I'd be most appreciative.

Thanks
Tom Hunt

[Tom Hunt]

side view

[Tom Hunt]

top view

[Tom Hunt]

flight shot

[Tom Hunt]

and another flight shot

[Allan Wright]

I don't know what it is, but I LIKE it! That wing is very bird-like. Nice lines. Very classic old-timey.

[Tom Smith]

Here at the Mid Hudson RC Society (Rhinebeck Jamboree) we have a lot of older flyers, and on Wednesday we meet at the Hopewell Diner for breakfast before going to our field to fly. I just printed out a couple of those pictures and will pass them around tomorrow morning. For sure, someone will know what it is. Unless of course it was a British kit or something, but chances are I will have an answer for you tomorrow. Real nice looking model. Nice restoration. I like doing that too. I am currently restoring a deBolt Rebel that was built back in the mid 50s. It will more than likely be e-powered in it's new life. Tom

[tim hooper]

Tom,

No idea, but that really is pretty!:cool:

tim

[Don Sims]

That is a great looking plane! Still no clue as to what it is??
Don

[weflyon]

Took a quick look through the Model Builder Magazine Plans Catalog #3 and the Danny Sheelds Antique & Old Timer Model Aircraft book but nothing popped out. Beautiful Plane. Lucky find! Congrats. Hmmmmm? Steve.

[Tom Hunt]

I'm going to send off a picture or two th Larry Davidson (multi-year SAM champ). I'm sure he'll know.

But if any of you find out anything, please post it here!

Thanks
Tom

[vintage1]

From the looks of it, I'd say it was a 40's or 50's plane. It looks vaguely familiar - like something from Veron or Mercury maybe,...? I love those old timers.

Imagine what we would have thought then with modern radio gear and a brushless....

[GregG]

I can't think of a plane more relaxing and enjoyable to fly that an old timer. The clear covering over a painted structure really defines the light building techniques used, I like it!

One question, how do you remove the doped on covering without ruining everything?

[Tom Hunt]

Originally posted by GregG
One question, how do you remove the doped on covering without ruining everything?

Greg, the fuselage was uncovered when I got it. I just reglued everything, painted it and covered it.

The horizontal tail was covered same as the wing. It was so brittle with age, it actually came off pretty easily. some sanding with 220 grit took off the fuzz.

The vertical tail is actually new. the old one had too small a rudder for my liking. since it was just 3/16 slab, I made a new one.

Larry Davidson does not know what it is! Go figure! he fwd'd my email off to someone who might.... maybe one day we will solve this mystery.

Tom

[Megowcoupe]

Another guy to try is Eut Tileston- he's probably built it to boot.

Sam

[Tom Smith]

I ran two of those pictures past some of the oldest buggers in my club yesterday at our weekly Wednesday Breakfast Bash and Bull Session, and they were stumped.
Jim Wood, who has been modeling for 60+ years thought it might be a " Larkey", but wasn't positive. So we are going with a Larkey, until someone comes up with a better one, or the real one, or proof positive it actually is a Larkey.
Tom Smith, Mid Hudson R/C Society

[Tom Hunt]

Mal McLean ( friend of Larry davidson) seems to think it is a Nostalgia class model called the Villager 60.

I have ordered the plan from the NFFS.

we'll see when it gets here.

Thanks all,
Tom

[Tom Hunt]

Well,

it's NOT a Villager 60, the plans arrived yesterday, but I suspect it may be from the same designer! The designs are VERY similar, but the V-60 does not have a winshield cabin and windows. The V-60 has a much lower aspect ratio vertical tail too. The wing and Horizontal look identical though.

the search goes on!

Tom

[David Hogue]

Old timer indentified....

It's Ed Lyerly!!!!!

Later,
David

[GregG]

Foote Westerner?

[Warren Delane]

Bob, I wonder if it might be a Bill Dean design, perhaps The Southerner? I believe it was kitted by an English company like Keilkraft or Veron. I have seen a photo of The Southerner in an old magazine but have never been able to find out any more info on this beauty. Perhaps John Pond has plans of it? Good luck on your search. I have always been an admirer of Bill Dean and his designs and of his excellent draftsmanship.

Warren Delane.

[Warren Delane]

Sorry, TOM, I got you mixed up with Bob Hunt, the famous C/L Stunt writer and frmer editor of FM. Excu-u-use me!

from Warren Delane

[GregG]

Welcome to the Ezone, Warren! :D

Hey Warren, good to see you on here. See you at the meeting this week.

[Tom Hunt]

The name of the "MARCO" plans i just got of the Villager 60, which as I says bares a striking resemblence, is Bernard Schoenfeld.

does this ring a bell with anyone?

Tom

[Tom Hunt]

Originally posted by GregG
Foote Westerner?

Sorry Greg, not even close. Foote westerner is in my MA-T plans catalog. It was a pylon model, and wings and tail were not eliptical.

Thanks anyway,

Tom

[Don Sims]

I've passed the photo to some folks that I thought might know... but none of them knew! Maybe someday it will be ID'd.
Don

[Jay Burkart]

Tom,

Did you ever get an answer to your mystery Old Timer?

If not I run it by the guys at the SAM Champs.
Jay

[Bill Mixon]

Could it be a "one of" scratch build ???

[JohnC]

Tom That is a very nice find! I don't have a clue. Say Hello to Larry Davidson for me.

John F. Clarke
AMA 9473

[JohnC]

I forgot that Ray hasn't gotten his feet on the ground yet. He is still on Cloud Nine over your flying his Bucker Jungmeister. What a beatiful plane.

John F. Clarke
AMA 9473

[GregG]

This will be seen by a more focused group over in Vintage & Old Timers.

[Tom Hunt]

This will be seen by a more focused group over in Vintage & Old Timers.

Thanks Greg,

when i started this thread, I don't think this category existed! It was quite some time ago!

Tom

[Jim Robinson]

Well I can't offer any ideas as to what it might be, but it sure is neat! I'll be watching this thread in hopes that somebody cracks the mystery and hopefully I can score a set of plans.

Jim

[Chas]

Warren,
Ben Buckle has kits and plans of the Southerner, 60 inch and 32 inch sizes I believe. Kits are printed wood but great for that! Optional polyhedral or straight dihedral.

http://www.benbucklevintage.fsbusiness.co.uk/

Chas

[forresterace]

I am so absolutely smitten with the look of this model, that I am quite prepared to draw plans for it based on Tom Hunt's excellent photos. I have reprinted the photos and they are hanging on the bulletin board next to my drafting table (I still draw on paper - imagine that :) ) It is in my "to do soon" file.

I'm still hunting the internet in attempting to identify the original, however. I think I have found something closer than anything else so far. I don't think it is exact, but quite similar.

Louis Garami's Molecule - 1939

http://www.theplanpage.com/Months/2308/molecule_files/molecule.pdf

Doug Forrester
Forresterace Designs

[Ercoupe Ed]

I can't think of a plane more relaxing and enjoyable to fly that an old timer. The clear covering over a painted structure really defines the light building techniques used, I like it!

One question, how do you remove the doped on covering without ruining everything?

To remove doped covering, very careful use of an exacto knife and sandpaper will do the trick.
Sandpapering old doped tissue or silk or silkspan off can be done, but very carefully so as not to damage airframe. It is a time consuming process also.
Somewhat similar to recovering a full size aircraft.

[Mike Rolls]

A less fraught - but equally time consuming - way to remove tissue or silk which has been doped onto an airframe is to cut away all the unsupported fabric leaving just what is directly stuck to the wood. Then paint thinners onto it and keep on doing so until it can be peeled off. It is NOT quick - and i have never used butyrate dope, only nitrate and acetate, so don't know if it will work with butyrate. If the covering has been fuel proofed over nitrate (or acetate but haven't seen acetate dope in 40 or more years), provided you can get the thinners to the back of the fabric it will still work - eventually.

Mike

[gossie]

Or put some thinners in a plastic bag with whatever you want the old tissue off, and let it sit for a while.
Beware if the thing was built with 'balsa cement' though.
Off course one has to tie the end to seal the wing etc inside.