J3 Cub 1/3 scale need help identifying

[DavidCi]

Does anyone know who may have built a j3 that had a steel wing mounting system in the fusalage, and steel gear that dosn't apper to be robart? the entire fuselage except for the wing mounts is made of wooden dowel. I own this thing, bought it used and don't knoe if it was scratch built or came from a kit.

[pda4you]

Here is my guess:
http://www.balsausa.com/kits/kit.htp?id=18&shopperid=

Mike

[DavidCi]

Balsa USA says its not thier kit. They didn't use Chrom moly tubing in the fuse

[FLYRC18]

This J3 was designed by a Canadian fellow by the name of Robert (Bob) Nelitz. I built one approximately 20 years ago from the same plan and it was a very scale airplane. I had bought the Chrome Moly cabin framing and gear from someone in California (I think) but the name escapes me. The Hobby Barn use to carry the Nelitz plans for the J3 and Taylorcraft. I don't know if they still do.

[DavidCi]

FlyRc18, Thanks so much for your input! I really appreciate the help and will check out the lead. It really is a great machine, very scale. If you can recall where the gear came from that would be great, do you still have the airplane that you bought?

[FLYRC18]

Your welcome DavidCi. FYI I just noticed that Model Airplane News also carry the plans, they may have info on who can supply the gear. I no longer own the one I built but I still get to enjoy it as I sold it to a local modeler.:)

[Highflight]

I also have a Nelitz Cub and Bob Nelitz designed the 1/3 scale model right off the full size plans.
The cabin structure is built from metal tubing, and the landing gear is right on scale. The fuselage is framed entirely of dowel to simulate the full scale metal tubing in the back of the fuse as well.

If yours is a Nelitz, and it was built as per plans (some people might make changes to make it easier to build), you'll see that the inside ends of the main wing spars are tapered and have a single bolt hole that holds each one to the steel frame where it comes together at the roof of the cabin. The rear spars only plug into the fuse about an inch or so and are held in place by a single long bolt installed from below.

The Balsa USA Cub has main spars that actually bolt to each other with a single bolt when you slide them in.

Keep in mind that you may still have a Nelitz Cub even if these features aren't present because of builder's choice. If it is a Nelitz, you've got what is generally considered to be the best scale model of the Cub ever designed (as far as true scale is concerned).

Highflight

[DavidCi]

Highflight, thanks for the input, It appears that mine is a Bob Neltz also. I have damaged the aiplane and need to find a set of plans ans landing gear. Do you have any suggesions. If you have a set of plans would you be willing to copy them at Kinkos? I believe kinkos has a machine large enough to taka set of plans or blueprints and copy them. I would be willing to rembuse you for them. (I am assuming they have templates for the ribs) Does anyone know of any kits that might be available?

[Tony H]

I have a question for those of you with these 1/3 scale J-3’s. I have created a scale Continental cylinder kit in 1/4 size for my GP Spacewalker. I’m in the final stages of getting it finished – see picture below. Yet to be done is the final fitting of the exhaust system and the installation of 00-80 hex cap screws on the edges of the valve covers. Clearer pictures are in the Scale Modleling section here under the J-3 entry.

The cylinders are laser cut aircraft plywood with vacuum formed valve covers and styrene intake and exhaust systems as well as styrene pushrod tubes. Not clear in the pictures are the exhaust and intake flanges. These cylinders are as scale as I can make them within the constraints of normal materials.

I have on order the first of two laser cut 1/3 scale kits for my Sig 1/3 Spacewalker and 1/3 scale Balsa USA Der Jaeger. Thus kits could be available in both 1/4 & 1/3 scale.

I’ve been encouraged to offer these as kits. I can do that but to justify the cost of developing plans and gluing up the cylinders (the 1/4 scale cylinders are composed of 32 individual segments each and have to be assembled on a jig to insure they are straight) means the kits won’t be inexpensive. The exact price has yet to be established.

So the question is whether you think there is a market. Please give me your thoughts.

Thanks.

Tony Howard

[Highflight]

Originally posted by DavidCi
Highflight, thanks for the input, It appears that mine is a Bob Neltz also. I have damaged the aiplane and need to find a set of plans ans landing gear. Do you have any suggesions. If you have a set of plans would you be willing to copy them at Kinkos? I believe kinkos has a machine large enough to taka set of plans or blueprints and copy them. I would be willing to rembuse you for them. (I am assuming they have templates for the ribs) Does anyone know of any kits that might be available?

David,
I could do that but since you can buy a brand new set for $40, you'd probably be ahead buying a new set because by the time I got mine copied, I'm guessing that it would cost close to that anyway. Plus, with copies of my plans, you'd be getting all the gobs of glue and tears showing up on the copies.

If all you want is the ribs, I'd be happy to do that because I could scan what you need off my plans, put it into a CAD .dxf file and email it to you if you have that skill and capability. Otherwise, I could just mail it.

As far as gear goes, the Nelitz design is a real work of art and unless you are a VERY skilled welder, I would suggest you just buy the 1/3 scale set outright (although no, it's not cheap). I forget who makes them, but I see their add all the time in one of the more popular mags so I don't think you'll have much trouble finding the company or maybe someone here will chime in.

You'll find the plans for $39.95 at the following site, and while scrolling down to where they're listed near the bottom of the page, stop and check out the plans for the 1/4 scale Kinner Sportster. I have those plans as well but have not yet started the project but am getting antsy to do so. I really nice looking ship that I have seen only a couple at meets over the years.
http://www.reidsmodels.com/products/plans.html

No one makes a complete Nelitz Cub kit as far as I know, but I'll bet you that Kit Cutters makes a partial kit although I won't guarantee that.
But if they do, I'd also bet you could talk them into making a set of wing ribs for you so it might be worth a try. You can go to their estimating page and plug in the numbers to get a quote on a custom order as well at http://www.kitcutters.com/PriceEstimator.htm
There's also "All American Kit Cutters" (a different company) you can try at http://www.aero-sports.com/aakc/

Highflight

[Highflight]

Originally posted by Tony H
I have a question for those of you with these 1/3 scale J-3’s. I have created a scale Continental cylinder kit in 1/4 size for my GP Spacewalker. I’m in the final stages of getting it finished – see picture below. Yet to be done is the final fitting of the exhaust system and the installation of 00-80 hex cap screws on the edges of the valve covers. Clearer pictures are in the Scale Modleling section here under the J-3 entry.

I’ve been encouraged to offer these as kits. I can do that but to justify the cost of developing plans and gluing up the cylinders (the 1/4 scale cylinders are composed of 32 individual segments each and have to be assembled on a jig to insure they are straight) means the kits won’t be inexpensive. The exact price has yet to be established.

So the question is whether you think there is a market. Please give me your thoughts.

Thanks.

Tony Howard

Tony, the only problem with your plan is that you are under the impression that you can actually make money in this hobby. :D

Seriously, I don't know if the volume with be there for you. And beyond that, A lot of the guys who build the really big and really scale models do that kind of detailing themselves.
While time consuming on a one-off basis, Nelitz (as an example) shows how he makes jugs for his Cub on his plans by stacking plates for the fins with spacers in between, all cut from ply.

In fact, I took his drawings, scanned them into AutoCad and cleaned them up, then I exported the full set of cut parts to G-code and cut them all out with my CNC rig. If you think you want to go ahead with the project, I'd suggest doing the same because you can cut set after set of parts to an accuracy of .001" without spending hardly any time whatsoever.

I wish I had saved the drawing but I never intended to make additional sets beyond my own so I eventually deleted the CAD and G-code files off my hard drive in one of my annual "computer clean up" campaigns. If I still had it, I would gladly give it all to you. It's not that hard to do, however, so you'd only have to spend a couple of evenings or so creating your own output for a CNC machine.
Now if you want to really high tech, and expensive, you can look into one of the laser cutter machines. :cool:

Highflight

[Tony H]

You're so right about making any money in this hobby. I've been doing R/C kits off and on for almost 40 years. And never make enough money to even remotely consider leaving my day job. It was however a great way to hide my hobby expenditures from my wife!

I'm retired now and have the time to spare for a project like this. But that's not to say that I'm willing to work for nothing. However it remains a good way to hide my hobby purchases.

BTW, these are made from laser cut parts. For over 7 years I've been doing limited contract work for others converting plans to laser files which I outsource. Most of my own projects are laser cut as well.

The source for these cylinders was a scale drawing of a Continental A-65 along with several photos of a display engine. I've never seen the Nelitz plans although I do faintly recall the kit. But all the other the engine kits I've seen fall far short. That was the incentive to make my own. And maybe build a few kits. After all the development cost is already amortized in the engines for my planes!

Thanks for the input.

Tony

[Airnut 2]

Great looking scale cylinders Tony! I scratchbuilt a 1/3 Scale Flybaby a few years ago and purchased a set of "Resin cast" cylinders that were nice (but heavy) not nearly as detailed as yours.
I saw Bob Nelitz fly his Cub several times at various events and it was the most realistic version I have ever seen, both in the way it flew and appearance. It was hard to believe it was powered by a Quadra 42!

[DavidCi]

highfligh, thanks so much for your help. I have contacted Reids and they are shipping the plans. I am going to send the gear to robart and maybe they will be able to identify it. It looks as though they may have made it but it is not exactly like thiers. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Tony, I think there is a market for those cylinders if you can produce them inexpensively enough. There are so many models out there with the exposed continental motors. It seems that sooner or late if your in this hobby you end up with one. good luck.

Dave C