Dynaflite Butterfly or similar airframe as platform for UAV

[ColbySTS]

I am College student working on an aerial mapping and imaging project of my Campus. We plan to use a Attopilot, a point a shoot and a glider to do 2 hour flights over our campus and create a map of our campus using GIS software. After searching the internet for hours for a potential airframes i stumbled across some discussion of the Dynaflite Butterfly. Its slow flying, very stable and incredibly efficient. The only problem is that it comes as a kit, and we want to spend our time calibrating and testing our camera and autopilot as apposed to building 2-3 Butterflys in our basement. Does any one have any suggestions for an ARF with similar dimensions and flight performance? One idea i had was to use a fuselage from a .40 or smaller trainer and buy some spare glider wings and convert the fuselage to work worth a much larger wing.

We plan on mounting the camera internally so we need a fuselage with width of around 4 inches, aerodynamics to a glider and a flight duration of 2-3 hours using a brushless outrunner and multiple Lipos, 7000 MaH.

Does any one have any recommendations?

[kbosak]

If you would accepts payloads up to 300g for camera and 15min flights with 5min fuel reserve, EasyUAV would do. Sold tuned and flight tested, focused on lightweight semi-pro photojob.
http://www.vimeo.com/5832423
http://www.aerialrobotics.eu/easyuav/easyuav-manual-en.pdf

Extensive autopilot manuals also available.
http://www.rc-cam.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3278
3 weeks leadtime, 1199EUR+shipment and taxes, flies out of the box.

[space 1]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1117083 I GESS I COULD BUILD ONE FOR YOU IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT

[Gary Mortimer]

How big is your Campus?? I'm not sure you are allowed to fly for more than 30 minutes autonomously in the USA without a COA.

Any bigger powered wing will work for vertical shots with an Atto, I have integrated an Atto into three different wings and the setup file worked everytime out the box.

Unless you have a huge area to record it won't take more than 40 minutes!

[brakar]

ColbySTS, I think we are quite a lot of people here at RCGroups who are trying to accomplish the same thing as you are trying to do. Possibly, there might also be a few who have allready accomplished the task, even if I have not yet spotted anyone who have told much about it. A few hints for the road:
- Teach yourself the regulations concerning UAV operations, (patrickegan here at RCG is probably one to ask),
- see if you can reduse your requirements for weight and flight-time, (life will be much easyer and it will save you time, money and effort),
- look for an IMU based autopilot, I think most important with regard to vertical photoshooting, they provide more accurate orientation datas. There are currently quite a few present. From the top of my head, among others: MicroPilot, Kestrel, SLUGS(?), FlexiPilot (I have one) and PicoPilot. Several others, at least: Attopilot 3.0 and Ardupilot Pro, are in the pipeline. (AttoPilot 3.0 are coming soon I believe).
- If you are not allready a good rc-pilot, you might be best off with a foamie airframe. The EasyStar is probably the prime choice for beginners - and for most people dealing with UAVs here at RCG, even if it has its limitations when it comes to payload, about 450 grams including batteries.

I wish you luck with your project, and hope you will post here about your progress.

Regards,

brakar ;)

[dmgoedde]

The Atto v1.8 is not really intended for motor gliders, or I should say ones that are rudder as the onyl steering method. It's intended for planes with ailerons or elevons. This is because the thermopile-based autopilot has only a vague and laggy idea of yaw rate from GPS. This is not a great system to control a rudder airplane with.

Regarding the advice of choosing and IMU autopilot, all I can say is Atto v1.8 is about 1/3 to 1/10th the cost of the IMU systems, and the pitch and roll is constantly trimmed against standards so that it is fairly accurate. There are also the ability to trigger photos at user-defined distance intervals and even have the motor shut off right before a photo if you want (to eliminate motor vibration) while holding a flat level glide. And, there is significant data logging pertaining to each photo. Oh yeah, and Atto v1.8 ability to hold a line has been observed by many individuals and commented as remarkable.

[jglenn]

Colby: Look up the TeleMaster. It comes in various sizes, conventional airplane layout, lots of room, easy flying, good old balsa wood! To get 2 hours
in the air you will need a pretty big battery, but keep the weight down and the power needs will be minimized. Use the ailerons and the Atto should be happy.

[Mecha]

I second jglenn on the Telemaster, get the plane to run on 8s-12s with 5A-8A draw and you are in business.

[airmcn_3]

Unless you plan on flying in very low winds don’t get a telemaster. It’s a giant kite with a lumber yard worth of wood.

You should look at purpose built aircraft.

[jglenn]

You can adjust the wing loading. I find that heavy planes with a lot of power
can punch thru the wind. When I launch into a strong wind, the plane is like it is on an elevator, stunning climb rates. Just load about 5 2200 maH batts on
it! And a big ass motor. The flying balsa yard will do just fine, as you know, wood...


is more efficient for structures than foam, none of the wimpy weakness. :D

[airmcn_3]

You can adjust the wing loading. I find that heavy planes with a lot of power
can punch thru the wind. When I launch into a strong wind, the plane is like it is on an elevator, stunning climb rates. Just load about 5 2200 maH batts on
it! And a big ass motor. The flying balsa yard will do just fine, as you know, wood...


is more efficient for structures than foam, none of the wimpy weakness. :D


Heavy wing loading equates to fast landings and nasty stalls in lower wind conditions, finding a motor combination to fly that heavy bird efficiently will not be an easy task. Chances are you will be over weight for a lot of countries with UAS airframe limitations. Nitro or Gas is the way to go if you want any type of efficiency for a bird this size and weight. The facts are simple, take a fuse with a cross section the size of this bird and try and hold it out your car window at 40mph at any angle........ It’s a freaking barn wall.

This bird is good for what it was designed for. Lazy RC flying with no care for efficiency.

Foam can be plenty strong especially when it is a core of a fiber glassed wing.

[jglenn]

The guy wants to fly 2 hours, and does not need a hard to fly plane, like a flying wing. A conventional layout, like a trainer, should be efficient. He has
to stay away from strong winds. I guess the wing loading should be light for a long flight time. Fiberglass over foam is super, as long as it is not an airbus
rudder. Held on by 2 or 3 pins. Scary, I saw the pic. :eek:

[airmcn_3]

Fiberglass over foam is super, as long as it is not an airbus
rudder. Held on by 2 or 3 pins. Scary, I saw the pic. :eek:


LOL. When things go bad with composites they usually go very bad.....

[jglenn]

I am an electrical head, was amused to read a tech analysis of a carbon fiber
airliner fuselage, seems it does not have a characteristic that everyone has
gotten used to:

The Faraday Cage.

Sensitive electronics and steering junk is protected from lightning with aluminum.

But carbon fiber does not conduct as well, so they embed tiny wires in it to conduct the millions of amps. No inherent shielding action.

And they wonder why they slam into the ocean during storms. Blame the
pitot tube. Well, it is true the computer is mainly looking at airspeed, everything is based on it, there is no backup. Some people are screaming for
an angle of attack sensor. Heck if I know. :confused:

[jtprouty]

Flying wings aren't that difficult to fly, especially if you have Atto assisting and pick the right airframe. Flying in over 20 MPH winds with great efficiency is easy with the proper airframe.

Jimmy

[airmcn_3]

Flying wings aren't that difficult to fly, especially if you have Atto assisting and pick the right airframe. Flying in over 20 MPH winds with great efficiency is easy with the proper airframe.

Jimmy


True that!!!

[jglenn]

I'm not saying that flying wings are bad. They are just usually too fast for me.

Too used to rudder and elevator. Everyone tells me you just need elevator and ailerons, but I am old school.

[wbuttry]

just get a easy star put ailerons on it and put on your equipment and dont worry about the rest a easy star will fly its self all u got to do is fine tune the direction a bit you wont be sorry you can use some henerys cloth and 3m90 to reinfoce the fuse under the batt bay so your equipment will be protected it is a good flying craft i have 2 of them getting ready to order more for 73 dollars thats not expencive at all and if you do crash it you can use medium ca to glue it back together again and fly it again in a few minutes of repairs unlike a wood kit you crash it it is destroyed but good luck anyway keep us posted

[RolandS888]

Punctuation is overrated anyway....

[philthyy]

QUOTE: "Punctuation is overrated anyway.... "
Hee hee

[wbuttry]

well grammer is not the end of the world on this forum. flying illeagel uavs in the united states is what you half to worry about not grammer . i work for the state of missouri and i checked in on it and it is illegal to operate in the nas system .you can only fly it in line of sight and no auto flight is allowed only thing that is allowed is return home .just like aerial photography for hire is illegal the faa has got to give approval for such uses and that take a lot of hurdle jumping and money to do and the arc has not ruled on any of the new rules to allow except for the military they are not goverened buy anybody . but if you do fpv you might be able to get away with it and then there is a size and weight limit on that . i dont own a uav i own a plane for fpv 3 or 4 of them:p but i do fly and do pictures for my friends and family it's not my fault if they grease my pocket book i dont charge they give me gas money so i get around being considered commercial . during my off time with the state i'm off all summer prime flying time and good friends always show up in summer time for thier exchange of gas money for a favor ....:)

[Gary Mortimer]

Getting gas money is considered benefit, that is commercial work.

[RolandS888]

Yep, thats correct, its commercial, make sure you declare the income for taxation purposes.

I ran out of breath at about line 4.

[wbuttry]

its not commercical if you do pics for free they just wanna see me fly and pay me for the gas to come out for them to watch me fly my little plane anyway. i own a 75 ft mast. and im also employed buy half of the real estate agents in town to do photos for the agency im employed by. plus do yard work for them cut trees so i get paid for that stuff to not just the aerial side its all good. by the way there is periods at the end of every sentence no capitals but there are periods thank you for not noticing:rolleyes:

[heba66]

Hi,
I do not have the material. but i am telling you... where you can find it.
Just go through Freelancer.com. There you find thousands of providers who are really very helpful and active. You will find some extra feathers if you use this 'NUTSANDBOLTS' coupon word.
Best of luck to you
bye

[ColbySTS]

thanks for all the help. i ended up going with an easy star with an easy glider wing.
Foster

[macboffin]

Flying wings aren't that difficult to fly, especially if you have Atto assisting and pick the right airframe. Flying in over 20 MPH winds with great efficiency is easy with the proper airframe.

Jimmy Insitu don't seem to have any problems with flying wings!
Me neither! Operated a lot of them for AP, FPV, military surveillance. Building one right now, O.S.90 powered.

[Gary Mortimer]

Ohhh nice one Mac, can I bring an Atto around in March for some test flying, will surfaces move on both wings?? Do you have a build thread??

[patrickegan]

well grammer is not the end of the world on this forum. flying illeagel uavs in the united states is what you half to worry about not grammer . i work for the state of missouri and i checked in on it and it is illegal to operate in the nas system .you can only fly it in line of sight and no auto flight is allowed only thing that is allowed is return home .just like aerial photography for hire is illegal the faa has got to give approval for such uses and that take a lot of hurdle jumping and money to do and the arc has not ruled on any of the new rules to allow except for the military they are not goverened buy anybody . but if you do fpv you might be able to get away with it and then there is a size and weight limit on that . i dont own a uav i own a plane for fpv 3 or 4 of them:p but i do fly and do pictures for my friends and family it's not my fault if they grease my pocket book i dont charge they give me gas money so i get around being considered commercial . during my off time with the state i'm off all summer prime flying time and good friends always show up in summer time for thier exchange of gas money for a favor ....:)
:rolleyes:;):cool:

[Gary Mortimer]

I knew there would be a thread Mac http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1155415