Donald 4/5 seaplane, need help!

[Ray280]

On Esprit models web site a "Donald 5" seaplane is offered under "good deals". Comparatively, Hobby Lobby offers a "Donald 4".

I ordered the Donald 5 from Esprit and received a Donald 4. Don't know if there's any difference or not. Therefore either Esprit is making a consistent and repetitive typo, or doing a bait and switch for an older version.

Anyhow, I am wondering if anyone else has completed one of these kits as I need some help here. The instructions consist of 1 page of very poorly translated Czeck text with no photos at all. Assembly per the instructions is futile as they are non-sensical. This is very frustrating!:mad::confused:The manufacturer's website is also cryptic and no help:

http://www.pbmodel.cz/uvodu.htm

I was hoping this would be an ARF as advertised rather than simply a shell that you have to figure out for yourself.

Any ezoner's have photos or advice please?

[Paul Willenborg]

As far as I can tell the Donald 5 and 4 are exactly the same airplane. Don't know if it's a typo or marketing hype, but don't think you got an older version.

There is one big difference between the kits, the Donald 4 from Hobby Lobby now has photo illustrated instructions written in American English! The original Czech instructions are really quite amazingly bad aren't they? Here's a hint- the part numbers on the instructions do not necessarily match the numbers on the plan, and neither matches the parts list (at least not completely). It did come with a plan right? If you didn't get a plan it may be very difficult.

I was eventually able to puzzle it out by referring mostly to the plan, though this is not foolproof because the plan may be for an older version! Confused enough yet?

It's a nice flying plane, actually a simple build except for a few details. Try staring at the instructions, plans, and parts for a long time, then let me know if you have specific questions.

Now that spring is here I need to get mine out, paint the canopy, and add some more trim color.

Paul

[Ray280]

Hi Paul,

Nice job on yours, and glad to hear it flies well. Specific questions right now are:

• how the bulkheads layout inside the fuse
• how the servos fit and where
• the motor mount assembly
• where to drill holes for the rudder/elevator
• how the rudder attaches
• where to drill holes for the wing mounts
• where the CG is located

And those are just for starters, ugh!

Some interior photos would be great if possible, or a copy of those HL instructions would be even better.

[Ray280]

Just for reference, two differences I noticed about the 4/5 seem to be the canopy (clear vs. tinted and shape) and the rudder shape.

[Paul Willenborg]

Did you get a set of plans with yours? If not, I think you have two rational options-

1. Return the kit to Esprit and purchase it from Hobby Lobby.

2. Call Hobby Lobby, throw yourself on their mercy and offer them some money for a set of instructions.

Most of your questions are answered (or can be deduced) from the plans. I'll send you a PM this evening.

Paul

[Zoomzoom]

I have an unbuilt Hobby Lobby kit and can scan the instructions for you. It might take me a day or two to do it. I haven't looked at the instructions in a long time, so I don't know how good they are. Also, I can't remember the guys name at Esprit, but he was very friendly and helpful to me in the past. I'm sure he is more than willing to help talk you through the build. He probably has a lot of good info that aren't in the instructions anyway.

I've been told that there isn't really any difference between the Donald 4 and the Donald 5. Esprit just wanted to have a little different name than Hobby Lobby.

What motor and battery setups are people using on their Donalds ??

[Ray280]

ZoomZoom,

Scans of the instructions would be outstanding!

The setup I intend to use is coming out of a Pondside that has performed well but is time to replace (I learned water landings with it and it shows). The motor is a Jeti Phasor 15-4 with 1700ae battery packs from a 400x. Have not done any calculations on this combination but it seems to work fairly well.

Paul: there may be no need to write a lengthy answer yet, and thanks much for your advice so far.

[Zoomzoom]

Ray 280,

I got your email. For some reason I didn't get a notification get on any further postings on this string. I dug out the instructions a few days ago. They were pretty lame as well. They are bad copies of copies with no pictures. We'll see how they come out.

[Zoomzoom]

Not too good. I changed the contrast a little on this one.

[Zoomzoom]

This is a redo taking a picture with my digital camera. The scanner wasn't very clear. Sorry this is the best I can do.

[Zoomzoom]

This has been a real pain in the butt........

[Ray280]

Zoom,

Thanks for the effort. I'll press on and take some photos along the way and post when complete. It may take a while, but I will get this thing done one way or another!

[Paul Willenborg]

Zoomzoom,

Those are the old instructions! You need to call HL and get the new ones which are much better and have photos.

Ray,

Sending you a PM.

Paul

[Zoomzoom]

Thanks for the tip. I called Hobby Lobby and they are sending me the newer set of instructions. Hopefully my scanner will be work a little better by then and if Ray280 still wants scans I'll post them. Let me know.

[Ray280]

Zoom,

I placed an order today with Hobby Lobby and they are including a set of instructions for me also. What a great vendor!

When you finish, post a pic or two, I'll do the same.

Paul - thanks for the help also.

Ray

[Ron]

Does any one have a photo of the Donald on it's " optional " landing gear ?

[Paul Willenborg]

Ron,

I was amazed to find the optional landing gear parts in my kit. After looking at the plans and the parts for a while I concluded it was a really, really bad idea.

The Donald has been in production for many years in various forms- kit, ARC, and ARF. The landing gear is clearly an afterthought that was added on at some later date. I suspect it would work OK as long as you made absolutely perfect landings. But a bad landing would probably cause extensive damage to the fiberglass fuselage. I also suspect takeoffs would be fairly difficult.

Better to just build it as the seaplane it was meant to be.

Paul

[Ron]

Ok... since the " pond " is just across the street, I'll leave it as is.
I am planning to power it with an Endoplasma on a 2.5 to 1 reduction, 8 cells and around a 10 X 7 prop. It's ready for test frights, but weather and work schedule has slowed things down considerably. Hoping to get the bugs out of it before Chilliwack.

[Paul Willenborg]

Ron,

You may need to rethink the power system. The stock setup is direct drive with an 8" prop. and a 9" prop is the biggest that will fit. I just tried a 10" prop- definitely too big!

Paul

[Ron]

Actually, a 10" prop on the gear reduction, GP 2.5 to 1 fits nicely.
You are correct , direct drive,would not allow use of anything bigger than about 9", but since I have never used direct drive successfully on any of my models, I decided on this particular system. should be able to try it out in the next day or so, I'll keep you informed if you like

[Paul Willenborg]

Ah, I didn't consider an offset gearbox. Definitely keep us posted on your results. I build mine absolutely stock and was pleasantly surprised by the performance with a lowly Speed 600 and 8x4 Slim prop. It takes about 50-60 feet to take-off in a dead calm, less if there is wind. I do intend to try a nine inch prop the next time I take it out.

The Donald does have one annoying trait- it does not like to do a high or medium speed taxi. If you start from a standstill and gradually throttle up to medium speed it will bury its nose in the water and imitate a submarine! A slow taxi is the way to go.

To takeoff, I taxi into position, pull full up elevator, and quickly apply full throttle. The prop blast over the stab will hold the nose up and it should get on step almost instantly. As soon as it is planing I neutralize the elevator and keep it there until it's ready to lift off. Once it's up to speed, just a tiny bit of up elevator will lift it off the water.

You actually can do a fast taxi by starting the same way, then throttling back once it's on the step, but it's a bit tricky. One other thing to watch out for- it's very easy to fold the water rudder when putting it in the water. I always make sure it's down before taxiing away from shore. It won't steer very well in a breeze if the water rudder is folded up.

Good luck,

Paul

[modest-master]

If somebody needs the help I am only phone call away.
Zb/Esprit Model


Check the Video of Donald 5
www.Espritmodel.com


Video:
http://www.espritmodel.com/video/Donald%204.wmv

[Ron]

It wasn't too windy last night, so it was off to the pond. Power with the Endoplasma is just short of WAAAAY over powered. It flies on about quarter throttle.
The model definitely needs something done to alleviate the nose in submarine imitation trick, and I think it needs quite a large amount of up thrust. This combined with a good set of " home made " reverse chines in the bow section should hopefully cure it
I'll keep you posted on progress

[Zoomzoom]

Ron,

Do you have any info on your Endoplasma motor ?? Like where do can you purchase one, ect. Got any pictures of the engine installation ?? The extended chine idea is probably the way to go to combat the submarine issue.

[Paul Willenborg]

Ron,

I tried a couple of different chine configurations to alleviate the submarine syndrome, none of them helped a bit! I don't hold out much hope for up-thrust helping either. I don't think it's a thrust angle issue, it's a thrustline way offset from the centerline combined with a short nose issue. A three inch longer nose would really help, but that's not an option. Your humongous prop and its big power just make things worse. I finally decided I could live with a plane that could only taxi slowly.

One of the chines I made did considerably reduce the spray thrown during takeoff compared to the stock set. I'll get a picture tonight or tomorrow.

Congatulations on the first flight and Big Power!

Paul

[Ron]

The Endoplasma was obtained at my LHS I got it because they had no stock on Atomic force or Mag Mayhems, and since it was the same pricewise as the others, I decided to give it a try.
I'm hoping the upthrust and chines will make a difference. It did on another flying boat type plane I had a couple of years ago, but I think they have to go really close to the bow in order to be effective. I'm going to try about 4 to 5 degrees of up thrust, as the plane needs lots of up trim under power,( almost like it's nose heavy) but flares up and tries to stall when you cut the power.
That being said, I think it has possibilities if the bugs are worked out. Granted I may be a little on the fussy side, but I figure if the model isn't doing what I want it to, then it either gets fixed properly or scrapped. I may not have a big fleet, but they at least all fly well. :-)

[TCM]

Just came upon this thread. I also have a Donald which is powered with Phasor 15/4 & 8*CP1700SCR. I have the same problem in that I need to hold in plenty of up elevator & when initiating a turn the plane would dive. Initially I thought it may have been a CG problem although I have it balanced ever so slightly nose down on the recommended CG which I have checked on numerous occasions. I am now wondering whether upthrust is required? Any help appreciated.

[Ray280]

After a few frustrating weeks of assembly, the Donald 4 is now complete and has flown. Many thanks to Paul W. as without his help there would have been little chance of completing the model correctly, if at all.

I have only had 2 flights so far and not enough air time to comment on the turn/dive tendency yet, but I did also experience it.

Here are some photos and thanks again to all who replied on the initial questions.

http://homepage.mac.com/rayandrew/PhotoAlbum17.html

[aeropenguin]

I just want to get subscribed to this thread. Thanks for all the information. A very select few have gotten the Donald and have posted about it. Looks like you guys are really going to open up the business on this thing. Ever since, I've always wanted to get an Aventura and a Donald since they are so COOL. I noticed from the pictures on esprit though that hobby lobby cheated and painted theirs real nice on their pictures. :rolleye: It does look a heck of a lot better there though :)
I was saddened by the video on esprit. As much as I love that video and think it's cool, it shows and makes one think that on a BRUSHLESS upgrade it needs the full length of "pond Atlantic" to take off. I personally have very little space and that video scared me away. Strictly business speaking you might want to take the video down :(
I think I'll be ordering from Hobby-Lobby since it comes with better instructions (when/if I ever get around to this plane). I share my lovely pond sometimes with sailboats, other times with paddlebots, windsurfers (although I think I won't be flying if they are out there!), and kayaks, sometimes waves...
It is nice though, here's a pic I took there while hiking...

Also, I can't afford brushless. Are there any other combos that you guys can comment on that produce nice results? I need to take off in about 50ft MAX and the turning angles have to be fairly tight as the space is somewhat low... I am thinking: Graupner S700 with a 8x6 3-blade prop. I've done that combo before and it's pretty powerful. Oh - that was on 6 cells i think, with 8 it'll be a blast.

-Michael

[Fredrik W]

Originally posted by aeropenguin
I've always wanted to get an Aventura and a Donald since they are so COOL
I have them both on order from France. ;)

The motor should be pointing more up, I have seen the Donald take off, with brushed motor, and it had no problem to ROW at all. The pilot had added more up-thrust to the motor.

I think that I have a got the Donald on video, I will try to locate it and post it here. But it will take a few days.

http://www.flyingmodels.org/bildgalleriet/modellflyg/Haninge_sjoflyg_03/Pic/061.jpg

http://www.flyingmodels.org/bildgalleriet/modellflyg/Haninge_sjoflyg_03/Pic/062.jpg

http://www.flyingmodels.org/bildgalleriet/modellflyg/Haninge_sjoflyg_03/Pic/063.jpg

http://www.flyingmodels.org/bildgalleriet/modellflyg/Haninge_sjoflyg_03/Pic/065.jpg

http://www.flyingmodels.org/bildgalleriet/modellflyg/Haninge_sjoflyg_03/Pic/067.jpg

http://www.flyingmodels.org/bildgalleriet/modellflyg/Haninge_sjoflyg_03/Pic/069.jpg

http://www.flyingmodels.org/bildgalleriet/modellflyg/Haninge_sjoflyg_03/Pic/070.jpg


// Fredrik Wergeland
Sweden
www.flyingmodels.org (http://www.flyingmodels.org)
The Great Electric Motor Test (http://www.flyingmodels.org/motortest/Link_e.htm)

[John E]

If Donald 5 is manufactured by PB it might explain one or two things! - nice music download.

The Donald 4 that I now have include motor mounting struts with very noticeable up thrust on them, and I am sure it is far more than was originally in the kits that we supplied. The Donald 4 kits do include full English instructions and a full plan for positioning of formers etc, and have done for as long as I have known the model.

Happy boat flying!

John

[aeropenguin]

Fredrik, thank you a million for all the pictures!!!
They are very interesting and inspiring. I think I have seen about 3 or 4 different coloring schemes though, does everybody cover it themselves or are there diff colored kits like the vaentura in blue and red?
Fredrik, you say it ROWed very nicely on a brushed motor. I could spill out a little (like $50) on a brushed motor but no more than that. You would be the best man to talk to about this. Which rough approximate combo do you think would fly well? I don't need an exact combo just S600 race 8-10 cells something as simple as that
I also noticed that on your photos the motor was mounted very high. I think that either you can do this and mount the motor at an upward angle (not as efficient though!), but the sad thing is that with the prop at an angle you can lower it down further, but then you don't need the angle anymore! :D
I still think a 3-bladed option would work best since you could keep the prop size and mount it lower thus save yourself thrust correction headaches.
-Michael

[Christer Lagerstedt]

The pictures Fredrik have posted are from my son Martin´s Donald4. Martin have been flying it for several years. The kit was ARC and we covered the vings with Fibafilm. We didn´t add any up-thrust. The motor was mounted between the supplied metal struts with metal shells. The motor is a brushed one, earlier sold in U.S.A. as a Strontium 150. Martin is using a 7 cell RC 2000 battery. He is having no problem with the model wanting to act as a submarine. I think he is using full throttle and up elevator when starting.

The Donald is a very nice flyer, very light and can almost thermal. But donnot land on the ground. Martin did that once and we had to do some advanced fibre glass surgery.

Christer Lagerstedt
Haninge MFC, Sweden

[Palmettoflyer]

I am about to embark on a Donald 4 build and have found this thread quite interesting. I have a few questions as I plan my project. I really would like to upgrade the Speed 600 to something brushless. Has anyone tried other motors besides the Jeti Phasor 15/4 or Mega 22/20/3 ? Or are these about the best choices for this size plane? What size ESC should I plan on and any advice about Lipo batteries for this load. I’m assuming I will stay with the stock 8x6 prop but recommendations are welcome? One other idea after looking at the wing, I was contemplating installing ailerons. Has anyone thought through the use of ailerons on this plane?

Thanks for the advice and comments,
Palmetto

[Ron]

ailerons are not really needed. It was designed as R/E, and as such with the T tail, high thrust line etc., it's not what you call aerobatic. It's a relatively decent model once you get the " bugs" worked out of it. Power with an endoplasme, 2.5 to 1 reduction and 8 cells, 10 X 6 prop is as Rolls Royce says, more than adequate. Duration on CP1700 cells is 8 min with lots of touch and goes, and lots left in the tank at the end. I did have to adjust the wing incidence, change thrust angle, and lengthen the nose some to get it to my liking, but then I'm fussy. It will go from stop to taxi at any speed without burying it's nose with no up elevator, and will ROW easilyat half throttle or less , and landings are a nice greased in affair with little or no effort. It actually flies fairly well now, and shows no bad habits. my only complaint is that it's just a bit small. ( if you can call that a complaint) .
My advice.....use this brushed setup, it doesn't need more power.

[Zoomzoom]

Ron- Thanks for the info. What model endoplasme and where is a good purchase one. I have a Donald 4/5 that I plan to build in the near future.

[aeropenguin]

I think it's the Kyosho endoplasma... Tower Hobbies has em, there are other places too I'm sure...
-Michael

[Ron]

Yes it is the Kyosho Endoplasma, but if you aren't able to obtain one, the Kyosho Atomic Force will work about as well.
If you would like a picture of the hull modification, I can arrange it.
keep me posted on how it flies for you. It's actually a fun little plane.

[Zoomzoom]

Ron - Thanks for the reply. Yes, any picture you have of the hull mod would be great. I need to start building mine, it's been sittting in the box for longer than I care to admit.

[Palmettoflyer]

Ron,
Thanks too for your input. Please share what ever info you have that might help. My project is underway. I got the H stab ready to cover last night. Now I'm waiting on my orders of materials to arrive.

Even if not needed, I am planning to do the aileron modification anyways. The weight gain as I plan it will not be noticed and should add something else to play with.

Do you know the angle at which your incidence ended up with? The plans show +2 degrees. How much did you have to change that angle and how much did you move the motor thrust line?

Thanks for all your advise,
Palmetto

[ctoms]

If I follow the plans and use the stock power, will this thing fly OK?

I ask because people seem to be upgrading things before they fly it.

I will be using the 600 motor and recommended prop but I only have Lith poly cells. It sounds like I need to run a 3 cell pack because 2 will not be enough.

Anyone see any problems with running a 3s 2100mAh pack?

Thanks
Charlie

[Ray280]

Hi Charlie,

I can only speculate from what I have done with mine, and I did go brushless straight away (see previous posts). This was before LiPo's were common so that was not an option.

Therefore you have an advantage of lighter weight so the stock 600 motor will do better than the original design spec's. The ailerons are not needed at all with this plane. My best guess would be that the 600 motor with the LiPo's will do fine although I cannot speak to the 2 vs. 3 cell question.

One good thing about the seaplanes is that you can test fly on a calm day over a long stretch and see for yourself without much risk. See how the taxi goes, and fly in small spurts like the spuce goose until comfortable.

Hope that helps,

Ray280

[Palmettoflyer]

I plan to stay with the stock sp600 motor. At least at first. I did some testing with NiMH cells and the Graupner 8.4 volt sp600 motor. With 10 cells it got hot very quick to the touch. On 9 cells it still warmed up a bit within a minute. On 8 cells the thrust still felt good and the motor did not feel like it was going to overheat. Of course this is just un-scientific testing and purly subjective to my touch. If you run with a 3 cell LiPo battery, you may need to change the prop size to reduce the motor current. Otherwise, I don't think the brushed 600 motor would last long at 11.5 ~ 12.4 volt range and the DD 8x6 prop.

I am about half way built on my project. So I don't have any flight data yet.

Palmetto

[Zoomzoom]

Anyone found a good LiPo setup for the Speed 600 ?? I'm leaning torwards AXI, but if I can get the Speed 600 to work I'll go it.

Any other lessons learned from a summer of flying their Donalds ??

[Zoomzoom]

Started building the Donald 4 last night. I have the crappy old instructions, so it's a guessing game to say the least. Does anyone have a good picture of the way they mounted the servos and motor to the pod ?? What holds the windshield in place ??

The main metal spar certainly weighs a ton. Has anyone replaced thiers with the carbon fiber one ?? I can see without power the Donald will sink like a rock.

Thanks, Rick

[Zoomzoom]

Bump...... there has to be someone who can answer a few questions for me. I want to maiden it next weekend.

Like how is the canopy held on ?? Worked through most of the other questions.

[Palmettoflyer]

I used 2 4-40 screws in the front 2 corners to hold the canopy in place. Drilled the holes and glued 2 4-40 T-nuts, or blind nuts in a small block of wood that align with the holes in the canopy. This worked good but you still need to use some sort of tape to seal the edges. So the screws are really not needed. You will get water over the bow no matter how careful you are. Just use a piece of electrical tape, or colored vinyl tape to seal the forward and bottom edges. The wing keeps the back edges in place.

Palmetto

[Palmettoflyer]

It is a little unsightly in this picture. :o You can see the black tape on the bottom and front edge of the canopy. White vinyl tape would look much better.

[Zoomzoom]

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a whirl. Your plane looks nice sitting in the water. Is that your nice big house in the back ground ??

Are the plastic splash chines just supposed to be glued to the hull ?? Are they needed and effective ??

[Palmettoflyer]

Thanks for the complement. I built the plane for a friend who lives on that lake. Lots on nice houses there. Qy8flyer lives very close to this spot too.

Yes, you need the plastic splash chines. I epoxied them to the hull in the locations from the prints. Then I used plastic filler like Bondo to fill the edge to blend it into the hull shape. Of course this was before painting. Might not be so easy on the ARF version. Without them you will get lots of water over the bow.

[Zoomzoom]

Palmettoflyer - Thanks for the info and reply, I apperciate it.

Almost got mine done. I bought it over two years ago. Didn't recall that I bought the whole Hobby Lobby package with a Speed 600 and battery. The battery and motor alone weight 21.7 ounces, that's insane !!! The plane with everything except the battery installed weights 41.5 ounces..... ouch. I think with a good LiPo and brushless setup I can reduce the overall weight by 6~10 ounces. Removing the heavy metal spar and replacing it with a carbon fiber one will save some weight as well. Might make a difference in how it flys.

Just have a few loose ends like installing the chines, sealing of the rudder cable and finalizing the wiring layout. Mounted the servos differently then the instructions said to. Wanted more room inside the cockpit.

Hope to maiden it this weekend.

[Palmettoflyer]

Looks like you are ready to go. The speed 600 is plenty of power for flight. Looks like you have the recomended graupner 8x6 prop too. With the 8 cell battery look for discharge amps to be around 30 amps. Is that a 1700 size battery? My guess is flight times will be about 5 minutes. I agree a LiPo battery will lighten it up a lot. But it would take something like a 2s2p 2200 to handle the amps. But this wont have the punch of the 8 cell battery. I tested the 600 on 9 and 10 NiMH cells and it got real hot quick. So I would be cautious to run the speed 600 on 3s2p unless you limit the throttle.
The Donald I built weighed in at 48 ounces, that's with the aileron mod using 2 extra HS-81 servos.

Good luck on the maiden flight.

[Zoomzoom]

Yes, the battery is a 8 cell 1700 mAh battery........ weights 13 oz. 5 minute run times aren't going to cut the mustard either.

Was your AUW 48 oz. or was that with all equipment except battery ?? Mine with said battery would have an AUW of approx. 54 oz. Needs a Jenny Craig diet or something to that effect. Tried to keep mine light during the build.

Hooked up a ThunderPower 2100 mAh 11.1V LiPo and it didn't seem to swing the prop any faster. Might try flying it once I get the maiden out of the way with two TP 2100's. I'm willing to be the big motor could get pretty hot before anything bad happens to it.

How much real-estate does the Donald need for take off ?? In the Esprit Models video it looks like a lot. With all the weight and small wing span I would guess it needs a fair amount of power to stay in the air. Have been kicking around the though that a bigger set of wings would help out in that area.

[Palmettoflyer]

Now that you mention it, I think it was in the mid 50's in weight with the battery. I no longer have it here to weigh. But it didn't fly too portly. Tomorrow if I have time, I can upload a series of pictures from a take off run.

What is the max amps on a TP 2100 battery? Take care not to thermal overload it. Do you have a way to check the motor amps?

[Zoomzoom]

Yup, have a plug in amp meter. I'll check the amp draw with the setup I have now. The generation II ThunderPower 2100 LiPo's supposidly can handle short 12C draws. I'm hoping two 2100's in parallel should handle it.

Since your a builder. Any thoughts about a better wing for the Donald ?? I like planes that float well in the air.

Looking forward to seeing your pictures. Got to go glue my chines on ..........

[Zoomzoom]

1700 mAh 8 cell battery pulled about 29 amps then dropped down to 24 amps after a few seconds at WOT. It only has a couple of charge cycles, so I assume they are not fully seasoned yet.

Tried the TP 2100 11.1V LiPo started out at 30 amps and held a pretty steady 28 amps at WOT. They started getting pretty warm so I didn't run it any longer. I suspect with two TP 2100's it should be fine. The weight savings would be around 3~3.5 ounces going to two 2100 LiPo's.

An AXI brushless might save another 3.4 ounces with more thrust. I've got one I'll try after a few flights with the Speed 600. Shortening the takeoff run would be a good thing.

[Palmettoflyer]

Your amperage load is exactly as mine was. I used Sanyo 4/5 HR1950FAUP cells which are advertised as 30+ amp discharge. They work fine for about 4 minutes at WOT but then the ESC cuts off due to the low voltage at WOT. At that point, we throttled back to about 3/4th throttle and were able to fly comfortably for another 4 minutes. I am very interested to see how a 3s2p 2100 LiPo does on the speed 600 motor. I didn't have one to test. My concern would be that it is going to make the motor run very hot. At the time of the build, the owner did not want to spend ~$150 on a motor system or ~$180 for LiPo batteries on a float plane. Save those for more aerobatic designs.

A better wing would be to use spruce spars and a full D tube construction. The aileron mod is well worth the effort too. As far as space to fly, you need about as much room as you would with a .40 size airplane. At 55 ounces it is far from being a park flyer.

More pictures coming soon.

[Palmettoflyer]

As promised, here is a series of shots of a takeoff run. I wish I had video but this is the best I can do with my camera. One other point I don’t know if you know. I learned from other Donald owners that it needed more up-thrust on the motor than indicated on the plans. I put 2 small 4-40 flat washers under the front screws of the clam shell motor mount to raise up the forward end of the motor. I don’t know how this compares to not having them because we never flew it without them. But it seems to pull quite good with the washers there.

Here are the pics….

[Palmettoflyer]

...

[Zoomzoom]

Palmettoflyer - Thanks for the pictures. They helped get a minds eye for the takeoff run. Also, your right about jacking the motor up more it needs it.

The little kid in me couldn't stand it anymore. I wanted to see how it sat and taxied in the water. So, I went to a park pond not too far from me. Plopped the thing in the water. She sure sits low, I guess they all do. Let is sit there for a few minutes and it didn't sink, which is a good thing. Then plugged in the battery and did a short taxi test. Seemed to steer fine that kind of surprised me. I was expecting the worst. Did that a few more times. Got crazy and cranked the power WOT to the un-stick from the water point then backed off.

I didn't want to fly it in the park, because too many people and too tight flying wise. It seems the motor needs to be cranked up more because it just pushes it under the water. With a fully charged battery it can get past that, but only once or twice. Took in a little water as well. I think it's coming in from the rear rudder area.

Need to go to one of the big lakes around here to actually fly it.

[Zoomzoom]

Cranked the motor up, hope it's not too much. The Donald does need the nose to be yanked up during the early part of the takeoff run.

[Palmettoflyer]

Your plane looks nice sitting in the water. You have your motor set higher than I put mine. If I remember right, I had two small 4-40 washers. Looks like you may have three? I also drilled a hole at the base of the pylon to pass the wires through. Also, I have the CG right on the spar.

I'm looking forward to your first flight report.

[Zoomzoom]

Yours is the bench mark for good looking Donalds :D

Might have jacked the motor up too much, don't know. It did plow the nose in really bad without the washers. I hate to cut a hole in the fuse for the motor wire. Struggling with that one.......

[SteveO]

I'm thinking of getting one of these from Esprit Models. They're on sale for $119. Any suggestions?

[flightdogy]

I just finished my Donald 4 and I have one very simple question...how do I attach the Canopy or hold it down? Thanks for any help.

[Palmettoflyer]

I put two small 4-40 screws in the front corners. You don't need anything in the rear because it is tucked into the wing LE. Even with the screws you should apply tape to keep the water out. So all in all, just use some sort of vinyl tape.

[lthibault]

Hi,

I've just finished to assemble the plane. Anyone interested to see pictures and get feedback? I've done mine with several improvements:

- Hatch with magnets & isolation - no nedd to use screws and tape
- Different covering & colors - Fisheries and Ocean Canada version
- No use of the suggested wood tray contraption

On the overall, a very simple project, I didn't care about the instructions :rolleyes: , the diagram was enough and you figure out the rest of the stuff :p .

[Palmettoflyer]

We are all very interested to see pictures! More the better. :)

What is your power setup too?

[lthibault]

We are all very interested to see pictures! More the better. :)

What is your power setup too?

Hi,

unfortunately I've decided to put an end to this project. Too many bugs to fix, and parts are very difficult to get. I ended up broking one of the wings, the tubes in the Balsa became loose and water started to weaken the balsa.

I learned my lesson as to be careful and choose a well-supported brand.

I will opt for another product, maybe the E-Flite J3-Cub 25 with floats.

[lthibault]

I'll give help to anyone about this product: DON'T BUY IT!

It ended in the trash can where it belongs. Had many flaws, aileron didn't fit the wing, parts impossible to order.

From the couple of lessons I've learned in this domain, two things:

1-Use a proven configuration (company developers had to test and crash so you don't need to)
2-Make sure parts are easily available within North America

Anyway I'm going for the E-Flight J3-Cub 25 with floats, check Greg Covey's great review at:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4496267&key=

[ctoms]

I enjoy mine. I run it stock per the instructions but use a lipo pack. It is not aerobatic r fast but it sure is fun to take off and land.

[Ron]

I agree with the " trash" designation for this model......poorly designed, and even more poorly executed....I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[flightdogy]

I've been running mine just fine on the stock setup 8C 1700 mAH. If I ran two TP 2100 lipos parallel at 11.1 V would you say the Jeti 45 amp brushed controller could handle it...assuming I'm using the Speed 600 Brushed and recommended prop"?

[Palmettoflyer]

Depends on which prop you use.

It has been a while since I did the amp measurements on the Donald I built. A 3 cell LiPo is closer to the voltage of 9 or 10 cells. ~12.4 volts when fully charged. If you use the same prop you had on the 8 cell setup, I would bet the ESC would last longer than the motor. I would suggest measuring the current on the 8 cell pack and then take test measurements on the 3 cell LiPo with the expectation you will need to use a smaller prop. Now the problem is will the Donald fly ok on the smaller prop?

I just upgraded my friends Donald to a Balsa Products outrunner, BP2908-10. http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V450327&pid=W466625

To get the amp range that I liked on the motor I had to use a 9x4.7 APC-e prop and a 3s2p 1800 mAh LiPo battery. We have not yet flown this setup yet but it feels like it should be a little stronger than the stock setup and about 10 ounces less than the stock setup with an 8 cell subC size battery pack.

[shv2sail]

Palmettoflyer...have you flown your Donald with the new brushless system yet? I have a "5" version I will be starting soon and am looking for (cheap) brushless suggestions.

THANKS!

shv2sal

[Palmettoflyer]

I wish I could say I have flown it but I haven’t. I live in Charleston, SC and the actual owner of the plane is in Atlanta, GA. I have the fuselage and he has the wings. We have not had a chance to get together and test it out. It may be the spring time before we get our schedules together and do another float fly.

[jan brilman]

Hello!

I purchased my Donald a month ago in Tsechie (was there for the skiing, but that was a no go: no snow :mad: ).

I am very happy with the price and the content of the kit: this is what it looks like.

http://obag.vyrobce.cz/anglicky/index3.htm

It comes with manual/building instructions (in English) and plan.

On the plan the wing incidence is 2°, and the up-thrust of the motor is a full 4,5°. :eek:

Can the people who have been flying Donald succesfully confirm that these are the correct parameters?

Thanks.

jan.

[Palmettoflyer]

I do not know the exact numbers of the one I built but you sound about right. The most important is the motor up thrust. The large amount of up-thrust helps to lift the nose of the plane out of the water. Flies just fine with that amount too.

Look at post #61.

[jan brilman]

Yes, I saw that picture. :eek:

That is the set-up/up-thrust that worked fine?

Thanks.


jan.

[rckamikaze]

I may be mistaken, but I read recently that tha "5" is equiped with airlerons, while the "4" is rudder/elevator.
:D
***out of watts, altitude, & ideas!!***

[tking2097]

I picked up a used Donald 5, which did not come with information on where the CG point is. Before my first flying attempt, I would like to check the CG with my battery setup. Can anyone help?

[Palmettoflyer]

You will be fine at 25-30% back from the LE of the wing. Nothing special about the CG on this plane. It is a very stable flier. It will handle pretty much like a trainer type airplane in the air.

[tking2097]

Thank you for the information on the CG. After a good preflight check, the maiden flight went very well. Takeoffs look quite stunning, but will need to work a bit on the landings. We had some "plop" type landings, which did improve with a bit more speed on the landing approaches. I got brave on the second flight and found the Donald rolls with nice authority, and loops look good as well. Flying the Donald was a blast!

[Palmettoflyer]

Congratulations on the successful maiden flight! Figuring out the landing is half the fun of float flying. I don't know how the wings are constructed in the Donald 5 but if they are like the 4 version, don't pull too many G's doing loops. The spars are balsa in the 4 and the plane is a bit heavy.

What did you use for motor, prop, and battery?

[tking2097]

The motor appears to be a speed 600 with 35A ESC, mated with a Graupner 9-5" Slim prop, and I used a 11.1v 2200mah lipo.

Thanks for the heads up on high-G loops. I looked at the spars, and agree they appear to be a bit under-rated for the weight of the plane. This is a very sharp looking plane, and I would prefer not folding the wings on it.

[cahoo]

i made some aileron for the donald 4 and it works like a bird you should try it

here is the link for the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GY2EILx7l4

if you need pictures i will gladly send some

[tking2097]

I have the Donald 5, which includes ailerons. :)

As you have discovered, it is a nice flying plane. Glad you are enjoying flying the Donald.

best regards,
Tom

[cahoo]

yes it is amasing but i had to make the aileron can u send pictures on carolosm@gmail.com or on the thread

[cahoo]

here are some pictures of the modification

[Jan Zelenka]

Donald 4 New:
http://www.rc-lamino.tym.cz/index.php?page=donald


The companies Obag and PB Model finished their business. Manufacturing of their models have been assumed by another company. More information on the e-mail:janzelenka@email.cz

[jondon69]

I just picked up a Donald, partially built... thinking a ducted fan might be cool :-) Anybody have any ideas? Still need to track down specs on this plane - like AUW so I can decide on a power unit...

Thanks :-)