DS Fest 2004

[ShredAir]

Right now, there is exactly 387 building and practice days left for the 2nd DS Fest at Cape Blanco on May 14-16, 2004 (at least that's the date I'm pulling out of the hat for now...). The tests of the radar and safety equipment this past weekend demonstrated that we can safely hold such an event.
Thanks go to Bob "Glider King" Bingham and Craig Toutolmin for supplying radar gear, and to Cliff Lindgren and Scott Hewett for building the "shark cage" for the radar operator.
The Ka-band radar guns with remote display allow for the relatively safe placement of the radar equipment and operator; a construction-site fence will protect the staging/viewing/parking area, and radio communication (still to be tested) with the pilot will remove the pilot's helper from the flying area.
So, mark your calendars and get cracking, so to speak...

Dieter Mahlein
http://shredair.com

[Tim Bigley]

Are you going to have a foamie class in 2004?

[ShredAir]

Originally posted by Tim Bigley
Are you going to have a foamie class in 2004?
The fact aside that "foamie class" is an oxymoron, 4 kinds of foam will be allowed... :o)
1. the kind sandwiched between wood, such as a sheeted wing
2. the kind sandwiched between composite material, such as bagged or molded wings
3. the kind used for padding of on-board RC equipment
4. the kind which keeps a good beer cool (hint: Budweiser doesn't foam, nor is it beer)

Clear and fair enough?

Dieter Mahlein
http://shredair.com

[Bart Vaio]

Originally posted by ShredAir
The fact aside that "foamie class" is an oxymoron, 4 kinds of foam will be allowed... :o)
4. the kind which keeps a good beer cool (hint: Budweiser doesn't foam, nor is it beer)

http://shredair.com

Hey, no picking on my favorite beer :) hehe..

[Mark Wood]

That would be a "No". ;)

mw

[pmccleave]

C'mon Dieter,

Tuff Puppy needs something to play with. Gotta Love what that pup does with foam.

[danand]

Is DS Fest 2004 still on track? I have heard rumors the location will be changed to a site in Washington State. Any info out there on similar DS event plans?

Thanks for any info,
Dan

[fatboywings]

Hi Guys,

It is a pitty you will not consider a EPP foam class for your Event. Especially as a 60" foamie is going only 25mph slower than you 60" composites.

60" composite record stand at 175mph as I understand it and Pat Bowman has hit 150mph with his 60"JW.

Don't tell me the composite 60" class is scared of epp foam??

Benjamin

[Bart Vaio]

I don't think construction matrerial is a class... That would be like saying 100" hollow molded is one class and 100" bagged structure is another class. If you think you can compete in the 60" class than have at it. If you need to create a new class to compete that seems lke a bit much. Let's keep it simple, not like AMA comps where you have RES, Nostalgia, Wood, Multiple span classes, etc.. next thing you know we will be arguing about skegs and landing scores! It's about going fast. It's not what your plane is made of but how you use it right?

[cobalt]

Originally posted by Bart Vaio
It's not what your plane is made of but how you use it right?

Well, apparently not.

Originally posted by ShredAir
[snip] 4 kinds of foam will be allowed... :o)
1. the kind sandwiched between wood, such as a sheeted wing
2. the kind sandwiched between composite material, such as bagged or molded wings
[snip]

EPP covered with a plastic material like Ultracote or Solartex and/or thinned-goop, fiberglass tape, etc., is not allowed. Foam wings (read non-EPP) covered by glass and/or carbon fiber for example, is allowed. Foam is not allowed to be used in the fuse apparently. At least that's how I read it.

The fact remains that for the 60" class the top EPP speed is currently about 11% off the performance of the top composite model...

Jason

[Craig Toutolmin]

Don't get too worked up over what planes will be allowed in the 2004 DS Fest. I'm pretty sure it is not being held for safety considerations. Dieter, please correct me if I'm wrong.

An option is to buy a radar gun and host an event. Along with F3Fs and foamie MOMs our club is trying to hold a"speed trial" each month based on conditions. Everyone is insured, signs a "release of liability" and must have a safe plane with internal ballast. The fastest speed wins. No FAI limits, no classes, climb out in a thermal or DS ...the radar gun will sort 'em out.

Craig

[danand]

Mr Toutolmin,

Is it possible to gain membership into your club? If so where do I send payment for the dues and insurance? When is your next event/gathering going to take place?

Thanks for any consideration or reply,
Dan Anderson

[Craig Toutolmin]

We are limited to 25 members due to negotiations with local land managers for site access. You can attend the events hosted by NCSS. Contact me off line to get on the contact list for F3F, Speed Trial or Foamie MOM.

Craig@thehelix.com

[timmig]

Just a fair warning to guys considering getting into a "shark" cage for protection!! I happened to live in Az for a time-- and flew Warbird Pylon racing. We had a VERY unfortunate accident where a caller-- in a steel mesh cage-- cyclone fencing-- was killed by a runaway warbird!!!! He was hit in the head with the spinner and crank still attached-- went right into the cage!! While obviously -- a very feak accident-- the fact is a cage -- will NOT stop the skinny fuz's of most of our fastest planes that are used for DSing! They would make a VERY effective SPEAR at those speeds!! And I doubt that any attorney would have a problem arguing that the event organizer's did not provide adequate safety!! Signing a liablity waiver does NOT release liability that easily!! So while I am a fan of DSing-- and plan on joining the crowd trying to go fast--- I DON'T think putting a human in the path of these planes is the safe method of measuring speed!!!!!! Use a remote and a trypod!!!! The Jet guys do it!! Find a way--- or someone may get hurt! Not trying to be a doomsayer--- just that I've personally seen the damage a plane can do--- and the warbirds only flew about 125mph!!! We're talking --- heavier planes above 200mph!!! Safety needs to be the PRIMARY consideration!!
Thank you,
Tim

[Craig Toutolmin]

I understand that safety is the primary concern. I have a tripod and mount for the radar gun. The gun we use (stalker) can pick up the average plane from over 100 yards with excellent consistancy. This range can produce cover in the form of a vehicle, tree etc. The tripod option is for when there is no protection for the gunner. By assessing the quality of the person and ability of the pilot we can limit the potential problems too.

Craig

[timmig]

Again--- the quality of pilots is not the real problem-- the warbird had won several races--excellant pilot--- seemed to be flying well--- the radio quit and the plane went out of control during the pylon turn-- kept turning and hit the cage. Just an example of everything possible going wrong at the wrong time. The trypod is a GREAT idea--- keeping people out of the path of the plane is paramount--- things can happen in the blink of an eye that we cannot control-- but NOT putting bodies in the direct path of planes would really reduce the chances of someone getting hit!
Tim

[ShredAir]

Originally posted by Craig Toutolmin
I'm pretty sure it is not being held for safety considerations. Dieter, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Craig

Craig is correct. Contrary to what I posted initially, there will not be another advertised, organized, sponsored DS Fest at Cape Blanco. It's a State Park with all the political issues surrounding these, and it's highly unlikely that current DS records can be approached there; the hill isn't big enough, and it's too turbulent.

ShredAir is working on another BS/DS event elsewhere, and there will be an announcement about it on our website later this month.

Dieter Mahlein
http://shredair.com

[timmig]

Suggest you hold it at Parker Mountain--- still the best opportunity for good wind and great DS conditions. You can literally fly either side --

[Terminator]

I agree with Timmig and a dose of that thin air couldn't hurt either :p
Terminator

[danand]

Dieter,

A site with multiple hills that can be DS'ed from variety of wind directions would be ideal. Vincent and Parker are good in that they within a few miles of each other, are two premier sites, have somewhat limited access (less chance for injury/death to an unaware, innocent bystander), and will work with the any of the likely wind conditions. Mammoth has the altitude advantage and is remote, but is somewhat unproven as a premier DS site. I realize that plans are well underway as far as site selection and any event at a new local is certainly going to present a myriad of logistical problems.

But is a site with a high and well-defined separation layer really what is desired for a BS/DS fest? Maybe it would be preferable to find a site that presents both pilot and aircraft a more challenging situation (low boundary layer with some turbulence thrown in for good measure). Separate the wheat from the chaff, the men from the boys, the well engineered/constructed machines from the posers and the also rans. Not to mention it would surely provide Dave Reese and the other vid producers with some excellent footage. Truly "separate" the DS from the BS.

In any event, it certainly will be interesting to see if under similar conditions the 2M size gliders continue to come out on top. The large gathering will also afford the opportunity to compare the different makes and models of radar guns, most significantly their capture abilities and accuracy. As an aside, it would be interesting to incorporate DS aerobatics and racing into the event to help dispel the common notion that DS is strictly about flying in circles.

Whatever you come up with, thanks for what are to likely to be your considerable efforts, Dan Anderson