Castle Creations Open Discussion V3.0

[Patrick del Castillo]

Feel free to post any questions about Castle Creations speed controls here!

Thanx!

Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations
www.castlecreations.com

[dgoslee]

Patrick

Please be more specific regarding the Astro 020 Corona helicopter package (I bought it from AeroMicro):

1) You say its an airplane controller, and told Chasvo that Astro hasn't ordered any heli controllers from you, but this is sold as a helicopter package- is this a mistake, or just that a fixed pitch Corona doesn't need any fancy heli stuff?

2) If so, does it have a hard low voltage cutoff?

3) Also, on power down, it stops hard. Is this because it has a brake (for planes), or is this just the cogging torque of the motor?

4) The low throttle setting to get it to shut off requires nearly 1/4 stick of throttle to start.

5) I'm having the controller totally shut down in flight, causing the Corona to just drop. Luckily it's only happened 1-2 feet off the ground, but its happened 5 times, and I stopped flying it. I sent an email to you and AstroBob about this. Bob said it was a BEC shutdown, and that he would replace it for free to a Castle 35 controller. Please comment, and will the replacement also be an airplane controller?

Thanks
Dan

[CharlieS]

Hello Patrick,

I received a Phoenix 60 about a week ago. Today I got around to programming it and testing on a Mega 22/20/2 with 3-1 GB and a APC E 12x6. It doesn't start with the propeller, just shudders. When I take the prop off it starts fine. For comparison I tried my Phoenix 45 on the same combination with the prop and it starts smoothly. Should I send it back?

Charlie

[xen]

I was thinking of getting a Castle Creation Phoenix 10 for a piccolo helicopter, but I am afraid to get one now due to the recent problem people have with the bad board.

[Hovertime]

xen - I don't think that there was a problem with Phoenix10.
Its very smooth and reliable ESC.
Buy direct from CC, then you will get it with the newest software etc.
Relax and treat yourself with Phoenix10!;)

[Patrick del Castillo]

dgoslee - Astro hasn't PO'd us for any 25s, but the 35s that Bob has a full blown Phoenix-35s with all of the programming features. You should have gotten one of those in the first place.

CharlieS - Hmmmm, well you can send it back and we'll check it. Might have a noise problem and can't read the back EMF.

xen - No problems with bad boards on the Phoenix-10 that I know of. We did have a run of Phoenix-10s and 25s where we got a bad chip from one of our suppliers -- these failed early. However, I think we got almost all of them back, and there shouldn't be any problems with any new Phoenix-10s and 25s.

Thanx Guys!!

Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations
www.castlecreations.com

[meteor]

Hi!

Will the CC controllers work in a moderate-amperage parallel-motor configuration?

I'm looking at twin ducted-fan applications using MiniAC or Mega motors at a maximum of 25A, combined.




Thanks.

[JJfromUK]

Hi Patrick. Hey do you ever sleep, mate?

Just wondering how you were getting on with the above little motors.

[locomoto]

Hello Patrick,
Will you have the Razor combos for sale at next weeks RCX show in Anaheim?

Thanks,
Dave

[KrisS]

Hi Patrick,

I just got my new Phoenix-35. Can it be true that you increased its size by 1 cm!?! It now shares the pc board of the Phoenix-45, just has less FETs. That's really a step back because I especially liked the small size of the Phoenix-35...

[fill]

Patrick,
How do you know if you happen to get one of the bad ESCs? I have a Phoenix-25 that acts funny from time to time. What it is doing is the motor won't shut off after moving the throttle stick all the way down. But seems to be more prone to do it when the battery is low.
Thanks
Philip

[Hovertime]

fill - My guess - you run it in airplane with "self calibrating throttle" ?
Program it for "fixed throttle"-that will take care of your problem.

[xen]

Patrick, I planned to order the ESC from Toddsmodel because they have it at a lower price, but how do I know if I will have that ESC with the good chip inside?

[dw1122]

Patrick:

Is it possible to design or tweek a BL ESC to reliably drive two motors? It gets expensive to use BL on twins because of the esc requirement.

Dixon
A happy Phoenix owner

[Hovertime]

Patrick-i wonder if electromagnetic fields, generated by motors affect ESC?
Example-Logo10 helicopter has esc mounting plate close to the motor, esc almost touches motor cooling fins. ( I made special mount for esc to keep it 5 cm away.) Hacker motor has aluminum body, and heat sink is aluminum also, and aluminum does not stop magnetic fields.
Should we try to keep ESC at a distance from motor?

[dw1122]

Patrick:

I had two P25's one bought in October 2002 and one January 2003 and wondering if I should get the March 2003 upgrade.One is used with a Mega 16/15/4 and the other with a Razor 300. What does the upgrade do?

Thanks,
Dixon

[ShamelessMale]

I am looking for a motor combination for a mini electric pattern plane (Ripmax Alliance) with a 3S2P Kokam 1200 HD pack (good for 25 amps in extended bursts <<Er, ah maybe I meant to say 18 Amps??? :eek: )>>. Something that is looking interesting is the Phoenix 25 - Aveox 27/13/2combination on your web site in conjunction with the P37 gearbox and an Aeronaut 7 x 6 folding propeller.

Would this gearbox with nylon gears handle the abuse? As far as that goes, how many sustained watts can this relatively light weight motor handle?

Do you sell / are you considering selling a light weight BEC that could be utilized in conjunction with a Phoenix 25? I believe you once said that 2 motor controllers can provide voltage to one receiver in parallel. If this is true, maybe you could sell a BEC built upon the Pixie7P chassis with no other function than doubling the available current output to make it safe to run four mini-servos with three lithium cells!

(Thank You!)

[Jim McPherson]

Patrick:
I was flying my RZ400/Phoenix 10 today (draws 9.6 amps max). During a low pass, I cut the trottle and let it fly silently by very low and fast. When I tried to give the motor throttle nothing happened, tried several times, nothing happened. The servos still worked so I did my best to bring it down. Ended up ripping the landing gear out of my park cap. When I got to it the Phoenix 10 was blinking rapidly, throttle still didn't work. So I unpluged the battery. Let it sit about 10 seconds and tried again. Still no juice to the motor. I felt the controller it was very cool as was the battery. When I brought it home about 10 min later I tried again. This time it starts up and runs wonderfully.


I've had the same thing happen to my Phoenix 45 and Mega 22/20/2, but only on the ground so far. Any ideas what happened?

-Jim

[ifrichard]

Jim,

I had a similar incident and Patrick told me that the fast flashing was due to the processor losing its timing. And that this failure was a very rare occurrence. I also had BEC power. However, my Phoenix 35 ESC reset with unplugging the battery.

Just for interest, was your battery pack li-poly?

Thanks, Richard

[Jim McPherson]

ifrichard: Yep my battery pack was a 3 cell Li-Poly pack. I've been running the motor and haven't been able to duplicate the problem. The cap is fixed so I'll go out tommorow and try again.

The Phoenix 45 that has done it about 3 times on the ground only (won't run the motor again after lowering the throttle) was on a 10 cell nicad pack.

-Jim

[ifrichard]

Jim,

My pack is a 3s2p 1020 Kokam. The plane has prototype Razor motor, much like the 400. There had been random failures of the restart (BEC auto cut-off) all along, but the last one with the fast blinking caused me to call Patrick. I land on a bluff and so I was continually having trouble managing power to hit the short field without overrunning into the trees. I had stopped doing the 3D elevator stunt as the power would not always return before the ground.

Anyway, the good news is that Patrick suggested I use soft-cutoff. Patrick blamed the problem on the high internal resistance of the Kokams. I think he is correct as I have had some of the same problems with my Radical RC Edge with a Hacker B20-22 and 2 serial Kokam 1525s and a Phoenix 10. I made the programming change on the Phoenix 35 to soft cut-off and now the plane behaves very well. It turns off, goes slow and always restarts.

Patrick also said to program the cut-off voltage back to 7, but I did not have the courage to do that and left the cut-off at 5 volts.

I wonder if the newer li-polys with the higher C discharge and charge rates will be much friendlier to the ESCs.

Regards, Richard

[Jim McPherson]

I'll give that a try, thanks Richard!

-Jim

[evan]

Patrick: I have a Phoenix 35 that I got last February 2003. It has been running perfectly until April 23, 2003. I think it arms (gives you some beeps and when you put some throttle, the LED blinks until you cut it) but when you give it throttle, it only spins the prop 3-6 slow revolutions. I used it on the 22nd and everything was okay; i've checked the connections, receiver etc.; no crashes. I checked it on another MegaMotor [that I bought from you :) ]and it didn't work. I used a Phoenix 25 (got it from you too) and it worked. Are there any other things that you can suggest to figure out this ESC?

p.s.: I e-mailed you this info.

[pmackenzie]

Patrick. I have a Pheonix 35 (late November 2002) driving a Hacker B20-12L on 8 HE cells . If I do a steep descent with the throttle well back but not off, the ESC will shut off the motor with a loud "click" (same noise is made at LVC). The prop does not stop, but continues to windmill. I then have to pull the throttle all the way back to re-arm the controller. I have it programmed as:
5 volt cutoff
standard current limiting
soft delayed brake
fixed throttle
standard advance
hard cutoff
I have not seen this with any other brand of controller.

Thanks,
Pat MacKenzie

[ifrichard]

Patrick,

I have a question about auto-calibrating throttle and the Phoenix series ESCs: On 2 of my planes, I do not run the throttle up all the way until the plane is really flying. I use a 5/8 throttle setting on take off with a hand launch. However, I guess it would be the same question even if the plane were taxing on the runway. So when does the Phoenix figure out the max throttle position? Is there less stick movement and more throttle affect during the period before you have shown the ESC the max Tx throttle position?

Sometimes, it may be a few minutes, before exercising the max throttle position.

This cannot be easy as the pulses from the Rx vary with the end point adjustment of the Tx. The standard end point setup on my Tx is 100%, but to really use all the pulses, I use 125%.

Thanks, Richard

[t.nollett]

hi patrick
i have just got my first CC phoenix 35 and wish to use it with li-poly's. if i'm reading the instructions right it tells you to set the bec to 7.2 volts for my 3 cell packs meaning 2.4 volts per cell, yet i was told never discharge below 3 volts, is this to allow for voltage drop under load knowing they will recover to above 3 volts when not loaded or is this an error with the instructions.
got it from e-flight in the uk, good price and no import duty.

thanks

t.n

[Patrick del Castillo]

Ouch! Better get on here more often!

meteor - Yes, but see my earlier posts about running parallel motors. It will work, but you have to be careful.

JJ - Hey! Those motors work pretty good! I just gotta get 'em off my bench and have Brenda send 'em back to you. The newest software version runs 'em real well.

locomoto - I'll have a limited number of Razor motors for sale.

KrisS - Yes, it is bigger, but better now. All N Channel FETs, and fewer problems with overheating.

fill - I think Hovertime got it right. It's calibrating to glitching that you are getting when your motor is low. Reprogramming to fixed should solve the problem, or you can use the trim (set to max at power-up, trim down a bit on low battery.)

xen - They have the good ones. We recalled from any dealers we knew had ones with bad chips.

dw1122 - Not really possible right now given all of the different motor types out there --- I can guarantee it will work with two pole motors, but not always with higher pole counts. But I'm still playing with dual motor configurations...

Hovertime - It is possible that magnetic interference can affect ESCs (especially sensorless ESCs -- they have a sensitive analog front-end to measure back EMF,) but anything over about 1/2" from the motor should be OK. All brushless motors have a back iron which shields the really powerful fields, but there is some leakage.

dw1122 - You will be fine running those motors. The January release was an update to the governor mode software (fixed some hard start issues.) The March release fixed an issue with small outrunners and CDRom motors.

ShamelessMale - No, I wouldn't suggest using the P37 with the 2 turn motor -- the little gears wouldn't handle the startup torque of that motor. I'd suggest the P44 instead. About the BEC issue -- It's usually not a current issue, but rather one of heat. The BEC on the Phx-25 can get rid of about 3 watts of waste heat. On the Phx-45, the BEC can get rid of about 7 watts of waste heat. It's really an issue of mass. :) We are, however, working on a very small switching BEC, which will power up to 6 servos on up to 36 cells. However, it might be a while, as I have many many projects going on right now. :)

Jim McPherson - Let me know if Richard's suggestions don't work!

evan - Sounds like it lost a phase in the analog section - Can you send it in and let us look at it?

pmackenzie - Hard to be sure, but it sounds like the controller is getting an overcurrent shutdown. Possible that the circuitry is mistaking the generator effect during the dive as an overcurrent situation. Let me know if it becomes a problem, I might be able to work a solution for you.

Richard -- Exactly right. The default max throttle position is at 70% throttle (1.7ms pulse width) and will move up when it sees higher throttle positions, so you might see a shorter throw before the controller has seen the highest throttle position.

t.nollett - The 7.2V cutoff suggestion is for use with the hard cutoff, if you use the soft cutoff, use the 9.0V setting. The 7.2V cutoff is for cells under load, and the voltage only has to dip below 7.2V for about 1/10 second for the controller to shut down. If you used a 9.0V setting, you would get lots of shutdowns on throttle-up even when the batteries were fresh.

Thanx Guys!


Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations
www.castlecreations.com
(785) 883-4519

[Double Dutch]

Patrick,

I just received my Phoenix 25 from dynamo today with a mega 16/15/4 motor. How can I tell if this is the updated ESC? I just want to make sure I have the latest version, even though I am sure it is, unless the guys from Dynamo had old stock.

Also, will you be selling the Pixe 20 at the RCX show this weekend? I need to pick up a couple and I was going to order them from your site directly, but I'll be at the expo on saturday and figured I can just get it there from you. If you are, hopefully you won't sell out before I get there!

Thanks!

-DD :cool:

[rcav8r2]

Originally posted by dgoslee


5) I'm having the controller totally shut down in flight, causing the Corona to just drop.

Hi Patrick;

I purchased an Astro20 /Phonix 35 @ toledo from Astro for use in a Corona. First few flights in my driveway ( just hovering) were fine. Went to the field to fly it, and in FFF it acted up big time.

First time I was going straight and level... motor cut and I flew it down like an airplane ( or so I thought) ...no damage done.

A few minutes later I was in FFF again, and the motor cut again, this time in a bank. All controls appeared to be locked as I had plenty of speed ( air and head) that I should have been able to straighten out, but it just went in on it's side. No real damage done as it was in grass, and by the time it hit the head speed was low enough.

I hovered the pack out ( about 4-5 minutes) right in front of me a foot off the ground. No issues. Motor/bats only slightly warm, and controller cool to the touch.

Like a glutton for punnishment ;) I went back up after a recharge. This time I went a little higher than my normal 2-3 foot, and within a minute or 2, while in a sharp bank at FFF, it did it again. Motor shut off, and all controls locked. this time it augered in pretty good.

I kept meaning to call you about this, but I can only do this at work, and they are actually making me do work at work ;)

Any ideas? I left all programming as it came, as the intructions with the Astro stated it was all set up for the Corona. I am new to brushless so I didn't know waht to tweek anyway. I'm using a 7 cell 1700 mah Nicad pack. I'm fairly certain that it's a 35 as that's what the instructions say, but there is no silkscreen on the controller. The wire is 16 Guage ( kinda small for 35 amps I thought).
I doubt if the radio is bad. When I had a brushed motor ( with the P35---Great controller BTW) it would occationally get glitched right around the time it was time for a brush change. A channel or two would twich for 1/2 a second ( sometimes at the wrong time :( )and that would be it.

I also followed a few threads about these issues, but they weren't exactly the same as mine, and from what I can tell by reading them, I have the updated controller, BEC board is almost as large as the controller, which is to have currected the issue.

THANKS

[JJfromUK]

Thanks Patrick, I'm not sure what version my Phoenices are now, you may be getting one or two back eventually for upgrade:)

[TStokes]

Patrick.

I am a "soft" flyer - rarely using full-throttle. After I experience a low-voltage shutoff, I generally just dead-stick to land. On the walk to the plane, I often hit the throttle a couple times to BEC in order to drain the batt.

Today as I did this, just before the motor cut off, the control surfaces all moved to the limit. I did this several times - and it was repeatable (surfaces moved the same each time). This lasts for about 5 seconds and the surfaces correct when the motor shuts-off. During the time the control surfaces are locked, I cannot control the throttle, either (it is also locked)

The reason I write here is that it requires full-throttle to get it to happen. I used 1/2 throttle until shut-off, and the radio was in control the whole time. This link to the throttle position leads me to the ESC rather than the receiver. It is as if the low voltage jst before shut-off inhibits the recvr from getting the radio signal.

I demonstrated it again with the next battery - so it is not unique. And I was the only one at the field (no interference)

Pixie-20 - default programming
300C - C motor
Electron 6 Recvr
8 720 AAA (9.6v)
Dandy Sport - Red
Futaba 6 channel radio

In a way, this is a relief. I think it explains some low-batt crashes that I had blamed on pilot error.

Any ideas?
Seen this before?
Need more data?

Tom

Edit May 5 - I noticed another symptom. I have a second pixie 20 that I fly with a HS555 recvr - same batteries. This combo performs perfectly. With the problem combo, the cut-off is not "Clean" as it is with the P20/555 combo. The P20/Electron 6 combo surges a few times and that is when the control surfaces move.
Tom

[GBR2]

Have a question about any Phoenix controller. If you arm the motor, then unplug the motor from the controller, move the TX stick to say the middle and then plug the motor back in, what happens??

Is the ESC still armed or does it become unarmed if it no longer see the motor connected to it?

[Fred Bronk]

It unarms when disconnected for the motor, it senses if the motor is attached.

[Hovertime]

Patric - PC to Phoenix interface should be out soon, right? Where do we look for it in CC web site? Under accessories?
Will there be "download" section, with software updates?
Could you recomend timing advance and switching frequency fo these motors used in helicopters. :

Hacker B50-15L
Hacker B50-13L
Hacker B50-11L
Hacker C40-12S
Kontronik Fun 600-18
Kontronik Fun 600-15

Thanks!

[fig8]

Patrick,

Regarding the PC interface, obviously it is for upgrading the software revisions etc. but will it also come with a program to "program" the ESC software also?

Now that would be a great upgrade. Maybe something to think about.

[GBR2]

I've been re-reading all the instructions sheets I have for the Pixie 7P, 20P, Pegasus 35, Phoenix 10 etc.. and I'm curious as to why the cutoff voltages that can be programmed in differ from ESC to ESC rather than having a uniform set. Just for instance, the Pixie 20P has a cutoff voltage of 8.4 that can be programmed but the Phoenix 10 is 9v.

My assumption is that each ESC was developed at a different time and things changed with time so the programming choices also changed. Just curious.

[efuture]

Hello all. Today I finally gave my Eco a brushless motor. I am running a Mega 22/20/3 15t controlled by CC Phoenix 45. However after about 6 min of hovering and about 10 feet up, the motor shut off! Ouch, no damages thankfully. The heat sink was a blistering 175 deg F. It's not hot outside just super humind here in Houston. I have a feeling that this problem could be the way I programmed the controller. Here is a list of the options on which I have the controller set. I need to mention that if I move the throttle back to 0% the controller seems to rearm and I can fly some more but I don't because it might cut out on me again.

Cutoff Voltage
7.2V cutoff

Current Limiting
Insensitive <---- could this be the problem?

Brake Type
Disabled

Throttle Type
Governor (High RPM)

Electronic timing advance
High advance timing (12deg-15deg)

Cutoff type
Soft cutoff

PWM switching rate
11KHz

Any information you can give me will be very helpful because as of right now I am scared to fly until I can get some help. Thanks Jesse.

[havy]

hello Patric,

i apologize for invading the flight forums, i run micro r/c cars and purchased a RZ-micro car motor and pheonix 25 combo for my micro. I had spoken to you before on e-mail about trying the mega- pheonix combo and you recommended the razor. So when i saw Mathew was making a micro car motor 5650kv!, i ordered one. He states that you came out with a prop forrward, brake, and soon reversible contorol. You had mentioned this before on your e-mail. I was just wondering what to expect as I have already ordered and I looked on your site but didn't see an update on the controller.

sorry again but no micro runs this combo yet and I hope to bring good news about this new product, the price is unbeatable! And i have read nothing but good things about razor on this forum and am very excited!!!

havy

[Guyffon]

H patrick, i would like to ask abt the the speed controllers that come with astro 010s, they seem to look like phoenix 10s, are they indeed phoenix 10s? and if so when I tried to program it, it only allows me to enable and disable teh brake, did the ppl at astro do something so that you cannot program much of it. Thanks

[Plane Crazy]

Hi Patrick

A group of us EDFrs were talking about Castle ESCs on the Ezone chat. The question came up. When is Patrick going to release his high cell count (30-32) high amp draw ESCs?

I have a 60 cell (2 30 cell, 65 amp) monster just crying out to try out a pair of Castle High power ESCs.

Gordon:)

[stumax]

Gordon, why stop at 30 cells? We're allowed up to 75V now, how about 50 cells? Does anyone make a controller for that?

Stu.

[Paul]

Partick,

I had a problem with my Pegasus 35 this weekend. As soon as I plug the battery pack in the motor would start running intermittently with the throttle in the off position. It would run at about half power for a few seconds, stop, turn over a few times, stop, etc. All without touching the throttle control on the transmitter. I unplugged the battery a few times, turned the transmitter and receiver on and off a few times and always the same problem. Everything worked flawlessly the previous weekend and on the many flights before that.

AF-15G on 12 cells, Pegasus 35 with BEC disabled, with 12 x 8 prop.

There was no sign of interference on any of the control surfaces, in fact I flew another plane soon after on the same channel without any problems at all.

The throttle trim was all the way down, the throttle stick was all the way down when turning on the radio and plugging in the battery pack.

When I got home I removed the ESC and set it up on the bench with another receiver, Rx battery, 10 cell battery pack, and a S500 motor with no prop. Everything seemed to work fine now, with no sign of the intermittent motor starting observed before.

The thing that bothers me is that I have flown this exact setup many times without any problems and then suddenly one day it starts acting up without having made any changes at all. Any ideas on what the problem could be?

Thanks,
Paul

[poobs]

Patrick:

I emailed you earlier . I apologize if you alredy replied.

My astro 010 ( 14 turn ) comes with what seems like a Phoenix 10.

The motor came from Aeromicro with a gear box and wired for reverse rotation. Its a couple of months old

Sometimes at start up, it used to shudder slightly before the prop would spin.

After about the 5th flight it refused to spin. It only vibrates back/forth and occasionally it will spin the prop.

I tried another receiver and battery pack and also re- routing the wires etc.

I do not see any loose wires.

Any ideas?

Who repairs this problem Astro or Castle?

Aside from the above - should the timing on the speed control have been changed to allow for reverse motor rotation?

Thank you in advance for your help :)

[flipnidaho]

Love your ESC by the way. My question is a weird one... Here is the setup:
EPP Foam warbird
TX is a Hitec Focus 3 FM (no throttle trim setting)
RX is a GWS 6 channel
Mega 16155, Pheonix 25 ESC
Battery packs 9.6V Kan, Hecells, 500AR's and 600AE's
3 servos (two aileron and one elevator).
What has been happening recently is that when I land after the battery pack weakens, I walk to the plane and find that the prop is turning slowly even with the throttle turned completely off. I blip the throttle up and down and it will stop. Normally, I run the motor a little just to draw the battery down a little more on the walk back to the box but when this occurs, it doesn't allow me to do that... I have to unplug the battery pack and replug it in and it obviously resets and functions normally again.
Another variation is that during some approaches (maybe 3 out of ten), the brake function does not stop the propeller completely. When I get to the plane, I blip the throttle and nothing happens. All control surfaces still move as normal. I have to take the battery pack on and off again to reset then everyting functions normally... I don't think this is the LVC since I land with about 4 minutes to spare on the pack (I get bored after 5 minutes flying :D )
Does this sound right?

[E-Challenged]

I had same problem with MiniAC 1215/16, GWS B gearbox and Phoenix 25 on 12X6 GWS props. Sent ESC in to CC . The invoice said that ESC had been repaired and reprogrammed with later software. On 12X6 prop, prop still oscillates and motor and esc get hot. On 11" and smaller props it runs normally. Could see no evidence of repairs ( really neat work?)

There may be some minor binding in my GWS geardrive/pinion mesh that when combined with the inertia of the 12" prop is too much for the esc's characteristics. The motor feels "coggy" but gear mesh seems smooth enough. I have tried lubricating , no change.:confused:

[flipnidaho]

Today, as soon as I plugged the battery in and the ESC went through it's beeping routine, the prop started turning at very low rpm's. Nothing that I would do would stop it other than removing the battery.
Very odd...

[havy]

Patric,

Are you there?

havy

[turbojoe]

Patrick,

I'm thinking of getting the Astro Flight 010 heli version 801H. Does it have the same ESC as the 801G e.g. the castrated partial featured one. If so I'll buy just the motor and get the ESC separately even though it'll cost more. (By the way I just sent both of "Astro" Phoenix 10's to you for updating. You've got a great deal for that service.) Why did Astro Flight cheap out in this area? Did they really save THAT much money buy having you make a special version?

Joe

[bandit409]

I have a Mega 16/15/4 with a Castle Creations Phoenix 25 controller, it came as a combo from edogfight. Received it this week flew two flights and the motor shut off. I thought it was the battery I replaced the battery with another charged fully charged battery. It flew about one minute and it shut off again, this time I noticed one of the IC's was brown and the clear wrapper,around the controller, next to the IC was melted. I am waiting until Monday to call edogfight. Is there some problem with this controller?

Bandit409

[David F. Plummer]

Hi Patrick!

I recently purchased one of your 60A brushless controllers for my Martin P6M-2 model; I'll be needing 3 more (there are 4 HW609 fans for the model), but would like some suggestions on how to wire the 4 motors/contollers/batterys for the model. I've tested the controller with my Mega motor and the HW609 fan, got ca 350W/28A on 10 x CP1300's at full throttle, so hopefully this is going to work. I'm assuming I'll just need to wire each of the motor/controller/battery sets separately, but wonder about the fuses and arm/disarm switches. I plan to connect the controllers to the rcvr with a set of 'Y" cables. Any suggestions on the power wiring would be appreciated.

David Plummer

[Chasvo]

Pat,
I just bought 2-803HC combo for the Corona and one of the two is acting different when throttling up. It makes a rattling sound/movement (for about 3-4 secs) that made me think I must be missing a few teeth in the main gear. Closer inspection indicated this wasn't the problem. When I removed the motor and held it in my hand I discovered that during that first 5-10% throttle, the motor rattles but doesn't turn. I contacted Astro and all they would say is that sensorless setups do not start up smoothly and if there is any problem it's the esc and that I should contact Castle.

"there is nothing wrong with motor.
starting is not perfectly smooth on sensorless motors.
that is a castle control 35H
please contact castle about control. "

Not quite what I'd expected since the combo comes from Astro. Could you please advise if anything could be done. I'd hate to have to live with this problem.
Charles

[jhearn]

I am flying a CC Pegasus 35 with my AF in my 110 electric. I have had cut-outs but have blamed them on radio interference. Now I learn from another thread that CCs have a tendency to cut-out. Can anyone tell me if this true and a good way to isolate the cut-out and determine if it is caused by the ESC? Thanks, Jim

[fwilly]

I plan on using a Razor400 and Phoenix10 on a 3 cell Etec. I need to run 4 hs55 servos. Can the Phoenix10 handle that many servos on 3 lipos? If it can't, would it be possible to wire two servos in series? If I figured right, then the BEC would only be seeing the current of 2 1/2 servos. Would the two series servos move insanely slow?

[ifrichard]

fwilly,

The 4 servos is edgy, but I have done it. I try to use the Phoenix 35 even though I do not need the 35 amps for the motor. What I need is the 2 BEC chips. When running 4 servos on a Phoenix 10 or 25, I use Hitec servos as they definitely draw less current and I cut the shrink wrap away from the BEC chip. For maximum cooling, I always mount the ESC on the outside of the fuse on the side, so the sun does not hit it. The symptoms of overloading the BEC are: servos slow down, pilot wants plane to maneuver, pilots gives more servo input, servos slow down more, pilot either levels plane and stops all input (hopefully plane does not crash) or pilot keeps trying to give input into the servos and the plane does crash. You can test the BEC temperature by feeling the chip after each flight.

Your serial idea will not work as the voltage is controlled by the linear BEC chip at 5 volts. Half of 5 is 2.5 volts and that is insufficient to run the servo (may burn it up). However, if you were thinking of using the power directly from the 3s batteries, then I have no idea what would happen. I doubt that you would have a complete circuit unless both servos were moving at the same time.

Regards, Richard

[fwilly]

How do I tell which one is the BEC chip?

[ifrichard]

fwilly,

On my Phoenix 10 it has the black power wire soldered very near it and is near the blue cylindrical capacitor. There are 3 connecting tabs on the chip. It is about 3.5 x 6 mm. Lower left corner if the motor leads are coming out to the right.

Regards, Richard

[fwilly]

Thanks. Do you think a small heat sink made from a soda can might help?

I didn't know it was always 5v. If adding mores cells does not increase the voltage to the receiver, then why does it burn up a BEC by adding more cells? If it's the same 5v for the 2 and 3 cell battery, then what makes the same four servos draw more current? I'm lost.

[BEC]

They don't draw more current - the BEC regulators have to dissipate more energy dropping the voltage from the three-cell battery DOWN to 5V to supply the same current. That's where the issue comes from. The difference in voltage between the supply battery and 5V is dissipated in heat at any given current draw.

See my October 1999 "Controlling Interest" on the Ezone for lots more data: http://rcgroups.com/links/index.php?sid=498277416&t=article&cat=210&id=3296

[Patrick del Castillo]

Hi Guys!

Sorry it's been so long... I've been REALLY busy developing new goodies, but I finally have a chance to get on here.

DD - Should be the newest version.

rcav8r2 - HMMMmmmm... if you are losing control of the servos also at the same time, it sounds like you are getting a complete loss of signal at the receiver. I would try replacing the receiver to see if that solves the problem.

JJfromUK -- And you know what? Your motors are STILL on my bench. I'll get them back to you this week. I'll include a Phx-10 at no charge -- I appreciate your help and patience!

TStokes -- Seen that before -- bad receiver. What is happening is that the shift register on the receiver is outputting DC to the servos for short periods of time when the voltage gets low. You can mask the problem by increasing the cutoff voltage at the Pixie to compensate.

GBR2 - by the time you reconnect it, the controller has already determined that there is no motor connected. So you will need to rearm the controller before it will try again.

Hovertime -- RSN. I decided to just go straight to the USB version, and not even mess with an RS-232 version. So that slowed me down a bit, but we are on track and it should be shipping pretty soon.

fig8 -- Yes, the USB programmer will allow both downloads of new software updates, as well as the ability to program the programming settings. Also, the USB programmer will eventually allow much more complicated programming than the LED interface.

GBR2 - Actually, it has to do with hardware on the controllers. The Pheonix line has a more capable A/D converter, so I was able to pick EXACTLY what cutoff voltages I wanted to use. The Pixie and Pegasus controllers were limited to certain choices.

Electricfuture-- Hmm, sounds like you might need a little more gear. Try using a smaller pinion gear to unload the motor a bit.

havy - Coming real soon now. Beta testers have early product in hand right now, but I'm still working a minor problem with startup on the reversing controller.

Guyffon - They are indeed Phoenix-10s, but with limited software.

Plane Crazy - Funny, I just got quotes today for the 60V MOSFETs for the high voltage version of the Phoenix. We will have a 40 amp and a 70 amp version available. Again, they will be available Real Soon Now. :)

Stumax - Gets REAL expensive above 60V... but our 40 and 70 amp High Voltage controllers will be able to handle up to 36 cells.

Paul, Usually that happens when there is a lot of short signal interference. That mostly happens when the transmitter is real close to the receiver, and the receiver starts putting out garbage. Try keeping the transmitter a little further away, and you prob ably won't see that happen again. Also, be sure you have your transmitter ON before powering up the controller and receiver.

poobs - Send it to us. Timing doens't need to be changed for forward or reverse, the controller sets the timing automatically.

flipnidaho - Hmm sounds like the clock is drifting. Might mean you are heating up the controller too much -- what size prop are you using?

E-Challenged - It's possible there is a slight mismatch on the resistors on your controller. Maybe we could fix it -- but give me a call and I'll send you a replacment to try. Then we could see if it is your particular controller or if there is a problem with that setup and the Phoenix controller.

continued -----

[flipnidaho]

Thanks for the response Patrick... I'm using a 6.5X4 Graupner semi-scale prop. It did it again today on my first flight (so the ESC has not been heated up by the battery or motor). However, it was 95 degrees outside when I started flying...

[Fred Bronk]

Patrick, it all sounds good. We had wondered where you went but glad to see it is time well spent.

Put me on the list for the USB interface!!!!!!!! :D

[Patrick del Castillo]

continued...

flipnidaho - You should be able to reprogram the controller for "fixed" throttle range, and that should take care of the problem.

turbojoe -- No, you should get the full featured version with the heli motor.

Bandit -- Talked to you yesterday on the phone. Again, you should be using a 6.5" or a 6" prop with that motor on 8 cells. A 7" prop just loads up the motor too much, and can damage the controller (as you saw.)

Dave -- yes, you can just wire everything as a separate system, and then run the connectors together with a Y harness. As for disconnects, etc, you should be able to use a deans style disconnect between each battery and controller. Never fuse between the motor and controller with a brushless, that can damage the controller.

Chasvo -- Strange. You should send us the controller and let us test it out for you.

jhearn - Well, I can't tell you, because you didn't tell me if you had the Pegasus-25P, Pegasus-35H, or Pegasus-35. If you have the standard Pegasus-35, then yes, you will get cut outs, because it has a low voltage cutoff. If you have a Pegasus-35H, yopu shouldn't see any cutoffs at all. A Pegasus-35P would have to be programmed to eliminate cutoff.

fwilly - I woundn't recommend 3 LiPolys and 4 servos together on the Phoenix-10. It's just too much power loss in the BEC. You would risk BEC shutdown (the BECs in my controllers are fully protected, so you won't toast 'em, but you risk having the BEC shutdown in flight.) Now that I've said that, there are many people running the BEC that hard, some with good luck, and others with less luck. Mostly it depends on your particular setup. We can (for $20.00) add the big Phx-35 BEC to the Phx-25, but then you end up with a controller that costs as much as a Phx-35. :(


BEC - Will be sending you my bench Phx-10 micro for testing as soon as I get new boards and can have Mary build me another one for testing. It's running very well right now, but I'm still working on the input capacitor issue -- so the beta you are getting has a small electrolytic for the input. The next one should work OK without (going to a ceramic input cap with a resistor network for input snubbing.)


Thanx everyone!

Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations
www.castlecreations.com
(785) 883-4519



Thanx guys!

[rcav8r2]

Originally posted by Patrick del Castillo
Hi Guys!
rcav8r2 - HMMMmmmm... if you are losing control of the servos also at the same time, it sounds like you are getting a complete loss of signal at the receiver. I would try replacing the receiver to see if that solves the problem.

Eventhough this is the same receiver I had in it when using a brushed motor, and it was in my 110+ for 4 years with no problems?

I will try to dig up another receiver to try though. I did have a weird UBEC issue that was resoved by swapping the receiver.

This is an AM set up... could that be part of the issue? I don't think so, but a few buddies are trying to talk me out of using my AM setups.

THANKS

[flipnidaho]

Hi Patrick,
Thanks for the response. I looked at the manual and it said that the Fixed setting is recommended for Helis. Will I lose any of the excellent throttle sensitivity by going with this mode.
BTW- I use the ESC on a warbird so I like the linear throttle response...

[erashby]

Hi Patrick,
I've got a Phoenix 25 that I got in the combo with a Mega 15/16/5T from edog last December (I think). I haven't flown it yet-It tests Ok. I am now going to use the Phoenix 25 for a PJS 300 (small outrunner motor). Where do I send in my Phoenix 25 for the software update? How long will I be without my ESC? Or will the USB software updatedevice be out soon enough that I can update it myself? I'm also thinking of ordering a Phoenix 10 and RZ300 combo from you. The Phoenix 10 will work with the PJS 300, right?
Thanks,
Eric

[havy]

hey Patric,
On Mathew's page he states right now the pheonix 25 that comes in the combo RZ-MICRO motor has prop brake, and reversible soon. If the reversable comes out later and I got the one w/ prop brake, can I exchange it w/ you? I would like reversable. I wrote Mathew that if it came in, then to send w/ reversable instead. Will the price be the same? Have you tried the RZ-MICRO motor on your micro?

Luis J Ramos - Havy

[Guyffon]

Patrick, if they have limited software, how can I get it to use teh full software, for I am using 3S lipos on them and will want to set up the cutoff voltage to that of maybe 9V instead of teh usual 5+ volts

[kelvin]

I switched my HM ESC with a Phoenix 45. The E3D has a Mega 22/30/2 and geared 4:1 Superbox and a 14x7 prop.

First flight today. Temperature was in the 90s. I'm using a 3s4p Thunderpower Lipo pack.

The motor cut out on me after about 7 minutes. I cycled the stick and nothing. I glided it in to land and cycled the throttle and it came back to life just before I landed.

I ran through all the settings again and I found a problem. Run the motor and then chop the throttle. When the motor spins down, brake is off or on soft set, with the throttle off if you advance the throttle as the prop is about to stop there is no throttle response until you pull the throttle all the way back again. This is reproduceable.

The ESC wasn't hot after the flight.

I have set the ESC with all the default settings except changing the brake to soft or disable and it still does it.

Any ideas what is wrong. With the E3D you are always chopping the throttle then advancing a little.

Kelvin

[kelvin]

I read some of the other posts and found several with the same problem. I just finished reprogramming my 45 and connected the TP 3s4p Lipo to it.

Cutoff Voltage = 7.2 Option 4
Current Limiting = Standard Option 3
Brake Type = Disabled Option 5
Thottle Type = Auto Calibrated Option 1
Timing Advance = High Option 1 (Mega 22/20/2)
Cutoff Type = Soft Cutoff Option 2
PWM Switching = 11Khz Option 1

I'm still getting shutdown of the motor. If I rev up the motor and let the prop spin down just before it stops and then advance the throttle then no response. I pull the throttle back and advance it and it sounds like the motor doesn't know what to do. Crunching sound as the pinion and spur gear aren't meshing correctly.

Why would Lipos cause this. Isn't electricity, electricity?

The Lipos run a lot cooler than my 10 cell nmih so if the resistance is higher than wouldn't the pack be hotter after a flight?

I'll try the test on one of my 10 cell Nmih packs and will report back.

Thank you

Kelvin

[kelvin]

I just tried a 10 cell Panasonic 3000mah Nmih pack. I can reproduce this problem. Run the motor up and then chop the throttle and as the prop spins down just before it is about to stop then advance the throttle slowly. I can do it just about everytime. So it doesn't appear to be related to the type of battery. Looks like the ESC looses timing as the prop slows down and the throttle is advance slowly.

Kelvin

[pmackenzie]

Kelvin,
My CC35/ Hacker B20-12L does the same thing, with an audible "click" just like the motor makes at low voltage cut off. I found that by always keeping a bit more throttle on the problem could be avoided. Patrick ( at CC ) responded earlier in this thread (2nd page) about this, so perhaps with your observation he will look into it in more detail.
Pat MacKenzie

[edbuell]

What is the right timing setting for

AXI 2820-12 in a 2 meter glider

10 1950 MAH cells

with the 35 AMP Phoenix controler.

Ed Buell

[kelvin]

Originally posted by pmackenzie
Kelvin,
My CC35/ Hacker B20-12L does the same thing, with an audible "click" just like the motor makes at low voltage cut off. I found that by always keeping a bit more throttle on the problem could be avoided. Patrick ( at CC ) responded earlier in this thread (2nd page) about this, so perhaps with your observation he will look into it in more detail.
Pat MacKenzie

Pat, did you try the different timing options. I tried option 1 and 2 only. I've already pulled this ESC from the plane and will put it back in my Kwik-e.

I decided to go back to the Hacker Master ESC for the E3D. I was unable to get this problem to happen on it. Bummer, the 45 is so much smaller and lighter.

Kelvin

[pmackenzie]

Kelvin,
I did not try any other timing settings. According to Patrick the settings are a "hint" to the controller and the timing will automatically be optimized anyway. This is I think a feature unique to the CC controllers. It could also be the cause of the problem since the part of the software adjusting the timing may be getting confused by the windmilling prop. This is of course just a guess on my part.
I am still using the CC35 in my Sukhoi3D since as you say it is very light, and by adjusting my style on the throttle I have been able to prevent it from recurring.
Pat MacKenzie

[turbojoe]

Originally posted by Patrick del Castillo
continued...


turbojoe -- No, you should get the full featured version with the heli motor.


Thanx everyone!

Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations
www.castlecreations.com
(785) 883-4519



Thanx guys!

Patrick,

I beg to differ. I just received my 801H package and it only has brake programming. I bought it from Aero Micro because I wanted his modified GWS gearbox so I could use the motor in a plane as well as the heli. I decided to just buy it all in one place. Do you get the fully programmable version only if purchased from you?
I see Astro Flight FINALLY has some decent non generic info on the different motors and it says it only has brake programming. Now I'm bummed out. I use my Astros on Li-Poly exclusively and I NEED that cut-off voltage adjustment. I guess I'll have to send this one to you to update like the last two. I really expected this one to be ready to go based on your reply.

Joe

[Takao Shimizu]

Patrick,

I am very confusing.
The Phoenix 10 User guide v.8 date/05/08/03 says;

8.2.10 Phoenix 10 responds: flash-flash-pause
8.2.11 Phoenix 10 is now in programming mode.

Stick middle.

Then,

What should I do to get into programming to change the timing only (9.5)?

My CD-ROM motor does not work properly at the factory setting timing.

[ssatoru]

Originally posted by Takao Shimizu
Patrick,

I am very confusing.
The Phoenix 10 User guide v.8 date/05/08/03 says;

...

Hi Takao-san,

I replied in Japanese BBS on this question. You can skip other parameters with no, no, no...

That non-rewound CDROM motor does not work yet. I have not pinpointed a cause yet.... No go with all ESC I have.
(Update. It worked fine with changing timing to low. It is great I can control this with Phoenix.)

satoru

[mt_100]

Patrick,

Will you be stocking the MP Jet brushless motors and offering them in combos with your ESCs?

[erashby]

My Phoenix 25 ESC won't start my new PJS 300 BL motor. It just stutters unless you very slowly advance the throttle. It only happens on 3S1P E-tech Lipo pack not on the 2S1P E-tech Lipo pack.

On a 2S1P e-tech 1200 pack it starts and runs fine.

On a 3P1S 1200 e-tech pack it has dificulty starting. If you increase the throttle slowly then it will start, otherwise it just stuttors and chugs. I think I have tried every combination of settings on the Phoenix 25, but it still won't start. With my Kontronic Smile 40-6-12 it starts and runs fine.

1) I have a Phoenix 10 on order. Will it have the same problem?

2) Does the new software for the Phoenix 25 solve this problem?

3) Also, even with the brake set to no delay hard brake I get alot of windmilling. Is this normal?

I thought that I saw a post with the same problem, but I could not find it now that I need it..

[Fred Bronk]

I can answer the brake issue at least for sure.

A brake only stops the prop, it does not hold it in place. That way it draws no power after stopping.

My thought on the no start with 3 LP cells is you are over the max cell limit on the ESC. Smiles are rated for 10 cells, the CC is 8 cells and 3 LP's is over 12 volts. The BEC is heating up and possibly affecting the ESC side.

[Wheazel]

Hi

I wonder if it is ok to use BEC on 4s4p Etec 1200 with Phoenix 25?

Regards
Wheaz

[Patrick del Castillo]

Hi Guys!

Kelvin - Hmmm, well I'll explain it. The Phoenix continues to watch the back-EMF while the motor is slowing, or windmilling. This is so that there is no delay when powering back up from a free wheeling prop. This also prevents the a jerky restart like some other controllers exhibit. When the prop comes to a stop (or very close to a stop), the controller will lose synch with the motor. At this point, the controller does a soft reset. It takes about 1/1000 of a second for the software to reinitialize, and then the controller looks for a good "off" throttle pulse train (5 pulses, or 1/10 of a second) to ensure good connection with the transmitter. If you throttle back up during that time (between the soft reset and verification of good signal) the controller won't respond until you throttle back down, hold the off throttle for 1/10 second and throttle back up. You would have to hit the throttle almost EXACTLY when the prop stops to see this happen. It's funny, but that behavior has always been in the software and no one has ever complained about it before.
If I had had someone complain about it, I would have changed it long ago (pretty easy fix in software - add a bit to test for a soft reset caused by loss of sync, and not require the controller to check signal before restarting the motor.) Guess it's time to revisit that part of the code (which hasn't changed in two years!!)


pmackenzie - Not sure, but I think we were talking about a different behavior--

turbojoe - I know that Astro is now shipping their heli motors with the full-blown version of the Phoenix. Perhaps AeroMicro had some older stock???

mt_100 - No plans to carry any of the MPJet motors. You should be able to order the motors from some of our dealers though... NSP or New Creations R/C should have them.

erashby - We made a change early this year (March) to support the little outrunners... The January version of software didn't have enough junk filtering on the back EMF digital filter to run the little outrunners well. You should get your older Phx-25 updated.

Wheazel - Well, how many servos and what type? You could probably get away with 2 servos, (even though that is beyond our recommendations.) The Phx-35 would handle it even better, because it has a 5 watt BEC (up to 7 watts in most cases) vrs a 2.5 watt BEC on the Phx-25.


Thanx guys! Guess I better look at that 'rearm after loss of sync' bit in the software. :)

Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations
www.castlecreations.com

[kelvin]

Originally posted by Patrick del Castillo
Hi Guys!

Kelvin - Hmmm, well I'll explain it. You would have to hit the throttle almost EXACTLY when the prop stops to see this happen. It's funny, but that behavior has always been in the software and no one has ever complained about it before.
If I had had someone complain about it, I would have changed it long ago (pretty easy fix in software - add a bit to test for a soft reset caused by loss of sync, and not require the controller to check signal before restarting the motor.) Guess it's time to revisit that part of the code (which hasn't changed in two years!!)


Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations
www.castlecreations.com

Patrick, Thanks for the response. The E3D was flying slow and throttle off so maybe the prop was at that small window of RPM that didn't allow the plane to throttle up. I remember once the motor went dead I tried several attempts to throttle back and still no restarts. I figured the motor was permanently off so I left the throttle off until the plane was about 10 foot above the ground then decided to try it again and then it started. Maybe in the panic of the motor not starting up I didn't wait long enough at first. Luckily I was up high enough to glide in. I've see some fly their E3Ds very low with the motors shut off and the prop windmilling very slow. Not having power at low altitudes would be disasterous.

I'm hestitant to try your controller again in my E3D. I'm not sure how many are using your controller in the E3D. I know someone in the area that bought a Mega 22/20/2 and 45 combo and has experienced this but is learning to adjust the throttle differently now.

I think for normal planes the software is fine but with the radical throttle management E3D pilots use the software is not fine tuned enough.

Thanks

Kelvin

[turbojoe]

Originally posted by Patrick del Castillo


turbojoe - I know that Astro is now shipping their heli motors with the full-blown version of the Phoenix. Perhaps AeroMicro had some older stock???


Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations
www.castlecreations.com

Patrick,

This will be the third ESC I send to you for upgrade. I've learned my lesson. I'll buy the next package from YOU!

Joe

[GBR2]

I was wondering if you could give us some information about the programmer that you will be releasing. One of the things I'd like to know is about the LVC setting. Will the programmer allow you to set whatever voltage you want or will it only program those voltages that are currently listed in the instructions? I'd really like to have ability to set it any where.

Second, what controllers will the new programmer work with? Will it work with the present day controllers or newer controllers that you will come out with?

Would some older controllers be able to be updated?

Thanks, looking forward to this piece of equipment.

[erashby]

Originally posted by Fred Bronk
I can answer the brake issue...

A brake only stops the prop, it does not hold it in place. That way it draws no power after stopping.

I thought that the brake provides a back EMF that slows and prevents the prop from turning. This would draw some power. If the "wind" force is greater than the braking force then the prop will still windmill albeit somewhat slower.

Turning the brake off allows the prop to windmill.

I did some experimenting and found the problem. First the Kontronic Smile ESC stops the prop quickly, so I investigated my CC more closely. The CC Phoenix 25 needs to have the throttle held back, that is I probably still had one click of throttle. So I will program in the throttle calibration instead of having it be automatic. Or better yet, I can just leave the throtle up a couple of clicks when I connect the battery. I tried it, and it works.

My thought on the no start with 3 LP cells is you are over the max cell limit on the ESC. Smiles are rated for 10 cells, the CC is 8 cells and 3 LP's is over 12 volts. The BEC is heating up and possibly affecting the ESC side.

The Instructions for the Phoenix-25 list options for up to a 16 cell pack or 4 cell Lithium pack. I called Patrick at CC, and he said to send it in for new programming and that the old programming is overly sensitive to the "noise" that the outrunners produce at higher voltages. This was fixed in the new programming.

[Wheazel]

Hi Patrick

According to my post when I asked if 4s Etech 1200 would work on the phoenix25. Answer is 4 servos hs55.

Should i Upgrade to the phoenix 35 for it to work?

Regards
Wheaz

[jperch]

Patrick,

I have a Phoenix 25 with a Hacker B20-15L. I use a Berg 5*DSP rx. I have not flown this setup yet but I have tested the power setup and it all worked fine.

Now, I have been having jittery servo trouble that I think might be caused by the Rx. Today is the first chance I have had to try another Rx (the trouble with the servos started several weeks ago). I replaced the Berg Rx with a Hitec Electron 6. Now I get no response whatsoever from the ESC. According to the troubleshooting section in the manual, my ESC is not seeing a braking signal at power up. Because I couldn't tell exactly what the output of the Rx is doing, I disconnected the ESC, and connected a DMM to the ground and signal lines of the throttle channel of the rx. I connected a temporary Rx pack to an alternate channel. I adjusted my Tx until the voltage the DMM sees is as low as possible when the stick is in the brake position (this corresponds to a low pulse width) and as high as possible when the stick is in the full throttle position. The ESC still seems dead.

I tried powering off the ESC and putting the throttle stick at full and then powering up the ESC. According to the instructions, the ESC should beep and flash in preparation to go into programming mode. Nothing. Is it dead?

Thanks,
Joe

[turbojoe]

Joe,

If you're trying to enter program mode try this. Reverse channel 3 and operate the throttle backwards e.g. idle is full throttle and vice versa. That's the only way I could enter programming with my Eclipse/Electron6 radio. Just remember to re-reverse channel 3 after programming.

Joe

[jperch]

Joe,

I didn't need to enter programming mode. I was just trying to get some kind of response from the ESC. I have been able to program this ESC before when everything was working. I just don't know what happened over the last few weeks.

thanks,
joe

[erashby]

Patrick,
I received the Phoenix 10, and it works better with the PJS 300 outrunner motor and three lithium cells than my Phoenix 25 did with the old firmware and three lithium cells. The Phoenix 25 is on its way back to you to be upgraded to the new firmware.

I am still having a problem with the Phoenix 10 and the PJS 300 on three lithium cells. The engineer who designed the PJS recommends that the timing be advanced to 30 degrees, but it will run fine with a less advanced timing. When I advance the timing to 15degrees -option 1 when programing- the motor slows down after about half throttle. It does this with either 2 or 3 lithium cells. It does this on any timing advancement (option 1 or 2, but not on 3 the default).

Any ideas what is going wrong?

[burgan]

a hi-freq esc (100 khz) for brush motors any time soon? i have an orion elite coreless motor and would like to see how performance/lifespan of brushed would change with a hi-freq esc. will need continuous cutrrent of 4 amps.

on 3 cell lipolys i typically run at 50 percent throttle and have heard that this creates problems for low inductance coreless motors.

thanks,

jeff

[JohnM]

Hi Patrick,
I am having motor shutdown problems in governor mode with my Phoenix 45 in my Eolo heli.
I am using the following:
Futaba 9CHP TX
Futaba R148DF RX
Mega 16/15/3 motor
Phoenix 45
8 cell packs of Panasonic 3000HV cells

It is a new 2 board Phoenix 45. I originally ran it in non-governor mode using the following settings.

1. Cutoff Voltage - #2 - 5.0 volts
2. Current Limiting - #3 - Standard
3. Brake Type - #5 - Brake disabled
4. Throttle Type - #2 - Fixed Throttle
5. Timing - #1 - High advanced
6. Cutoff Type - #2 - Soft Cutoff
7. PWM Switching Rate - #1 - 11KHz

The controller worked without any problems for several flights with the above settings. I then re-programmed the controller for governor mode with the following settings:

1. Cutoff Voltage - #2 - 5.0 volts
2. Current Limiting - #3 - Standard
3. Brake Type - #5 - Brake disabled
4. Throttle Type - #4 - Governor Mode - High RPM
5. Timing - #1 - High advanced
6. Cutoff Type - #2 - Soft Cutoff
7. PWM Switching Rate - #1 - 11KHz

I noticed a few differences after re-programming. The first was that the headspeed, even at 100% on the throttle curve, was much slower than when at the 85% setting on the throttle curve in non-governor mode. The LED would never turn on indicated that the throttle was at maximum. I flew the Eolo like this and it resulted in a motor shutdown. I increased the end point on the throttle channel to 125% and this raised the headspeed but it was still not as fast as in non-governor mode. I flew the Eolo successfully for a couple of flights, but on the third flight the motor shutdown again. I then increased the end point on the throttle channel to 140% and the headspeed is fast but the LED would still not turn on indicated that the throttle was at maximum. The controller is in the open air and does not seem hot at the end of the flights.
Is there something I need to do to calibrate the high throttle setting? Is the PWM setting of 11KHz correct for the Mega 16/15/3? I have since re-programed the controller for a 4.0 cutoff voltage and current limiting detection disabled. I flew a few more successful flights but I still don't think the controller is functioning properly.

John

[Snow Owl]

I have a new Pegasus 35, and I want to put a fuse inline with the motor. I've been to the website and it says to use a 35-45 amp, which makes a lot more sense than the size in the printed instructions. Question. Apparently, automotive spade fuses stop at 30 amps. The is a much bigger(heavier) style of spade fuse in this amperage range, and I suppose if I soldered directly to the lugs and cut off most of the lugs with a Dremel it might work, but I found called a Littlefuse PAL AUTO LINK mini female terminal at 40 amps. Do you know if this is suitable?
Also, I can solder, and have rosin core solder, but at Radio Shack I saw "Silver-bearing Paste Solder weld" and got it to experiment with. Is this suitable for electric flight uses?
Thank You.

[Fred Bronk]

Guys, the new place for these questions directed to CC is the forum in vendors.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127227

[JohnM]

Thanks Fred, I'll repost my message there.
John

[edbuell]

Patrick

unless I missed it, you never asked my timing question on
and AXI 2810-12 outrunner posted on May 31.

ANy info

Hope to get a chance to chat with you at the neat fair.

Ed

[madkiwi]

Hi Patrick

Greetings from New Zealand. The following is my setup for a 650grm 2.0metre glider:

Hacker b20-15l with 4.4:1 maxon gearbox
11 x 8 Graupner blades
7 cell HE cell 1100's.
Berg 5 channel receiver

I have been flying this setup with a Kontronik Smile controller and have had no problems.

I bought Phoenix 25 from Aircraft world in Japan and can not get it to work.

After connecting battery I wait the required 4 seconds. When I advance the throttle it will start and then stop. After that it will not restart and i can only do that by unplugging battery and starting again. When i took the blades off it would intially start and I would get some throttle but then it will stop and I have to unplug etc... so I figure it must be an overload issue (ie too many amps). Measured with ampmeter and at 14 amps should be OK. Tried different cells CP1300 and again same issue wont go so ruled out cells.

Went right through programming options, even making it insensitive etc but still no joy.. Made sure chose option for hacker motor etc...

Please help. Since I'm in NZ it aint easy to just send you controll
er etc. I've put the kontronik controller back in and it works just fine.

Thanks

Dwayne

PS I posted this on the main board as a topic as well

[Patrick del Castillo]

GBR2 - Well, I can't comment at this time. Sorry. We're still deciding on the feature set, and don't want to give anything away yet. :)

erashby - Actually, the brake works by forcing the motor to act as a generator, dumping power back into the battery. This way it actually reclaims power, rather than using it.

Wheazel - 4HS-55s and 4 lithiums is a BIG drain on the BEC. I wouldn't even suggest it with a 35.

jperch - Hmmmm..... Might it have been one of the ones with the bad chips (manufactured in Jan???) If so, you might have gotten a bad one. Email us, and we'll replace it at no charge (info@castlecreations.com)

erashby - Yeah, these outrunner manufacturers are driving me nuts. USe the default timing mode and you should be ok.

burgan - At this point, probably not any time soon. It's been shelved, because interest in brushed motors is waning.

JohnM - The LED doesn't come on in governor mode at full throttle... About the shutdowns, are you possibly exceeding the current rating, forcing an overcurrent shutdown???

Snow Owl - any 40 amp auto fuse should work well. As far as the silver solder is concerned, it's much harder to work with than regular tin/lead, and the only advantage is strength (the silver solder is about 50% stronger mechanically than regular tin/lead)

edbuell - I'm sorry ed, can you repost it?

madkiwi- Contact us at info@castlecreations.com -- we'll get you a replacement sent out to try.

Thanx guys!

Patrick del Castillo
Castle Creations
www.castlecreations.com

[JohnM]

Patrick,
I have switched back to non-governor mode again on my Phoenix 45 and I have had no more problems. It still seems to be related to the ESC not seeing full throttle when in governor mode. As I stated in my last post, I had to change the throttle channel high end-pont to 140% to get it close to full throttle. Is there a throttle calibration that I need to do?
I do notice that I have a difficult time programming the controller in heli mode on my Futaba 9CH. The mid point on the throttle stick is not mid point for programming. If I switch to airplane mode on the Futaba 9CH, I do not have a problem with programming.

John

Update 7/7/2003
I have switched the controller to the new one I just received and it does not exhibit the same problem. Governor mode is working flawlessly.