Senior Telemaster ARF

[vhoward1122]

I wish Chinese companies would have better quality control and better building techniques. The plane looks nice out of the box, but the hardware is horrendous, the control surfaces are pre installed for you, but the hinges are not glued in, they are screwed in with a screw from the bottom. I wish they had done it like every other ARF I have bought and left the control surfaces uninstalled. The landing gear wire is too large for the slots in the fuselage. I am sure I should have stripped all the covering off to re-glue every joint, then recover it in real covering. The engine mount beams are either too far apart or too close together. I was going to mount my K&B .61 two stroke up front, but the beams are too far apart and would require much modification. I have a RCV .91 CD four stroke I can put on it and the beams will only have to have about 1/8" shaved off for it to fit. Probably too much motor for this plane, but I was going to mount floats on it. Hopefully it won't be too heavy now. OH, and the manual that comes with it is almost useless.

I had a bad experience with a Hangar 9 Super Stick 60 Econo Series. It was extremely poor quality and now after a little research, I find the Senior Telemaster is made in the same Chinese factory. I wish I had done that research first, because I would not have bought the Senior Telemaster. The Senior Telemaster cost more than twice what the Super Stick did. You would think that the Telemaster would have been better quality.

Since I have already started building it, I can't send it back. OH well, live and learn.

Rant is done.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Vance

[Monza Red]

Calm down Vhoward. You'll love that Telemaster in the end!

I passed my A Certificate on a 5'6" version years ago. This is the equivalent of passing your driving test, an A Certificate enables me to fly unsupervised at any British Model Flying Club . I then bought the remains of an old barn door Senior Telemaster for £10 (about $16) which I repaired and flew for years until it went in with "radio failure."

Last year I set up Telemaster Sales UK (www.telemastersalesuk.co.uk) as a sideline. I've sold 23 kits so far so I'll not be giving up my day job. The Senior Telemaster ARTF is my most popular line but I've had no complaints about them and they sell for $385 over here because of the cost of shipping and Value Added Tax.

I've just checked my K&B 65 in the nose of a stock STM ARTF and it fits but the bolt holes would be close to the inner edge of the engine bearers. I've also trial fitted an OS 61 SF and a Thunder Tiger 91FS, they both fit perfectly but you'd need to put a groove in the side-cheek to allow for the TT's needle valve. If you're concerned about fitting the K&B, you could make up an ally plate, bolt the engine to that and bolt the plate to the engine bearers. I've fitted mine with just such an arrangement so that I can convert from E/P to I/C very readily. I use a Thunder Tiger 91 fourstroke and it's fine.

As for the pinned hinges, I've not experienced any problems. I suspect they're glued and pinned but if you've any qualms, try wicking a little thin cyano into the slots.

Please bear in mind that the Telemaster was designed as a trainer and not as an aerobatic model as the Stick series is. If you try rolling it, on your head be it! Literally!

Attached a few pictures to encouage you.

[vhoward1122]

The kit is fine. Except I haven't got room to build a kit of this size. I was expecting better quality from a product that Hobby Lobby imports here in the States. They did have that reputation, but no longer.

I wasn't planning on aerobatics with this plane. Just wanted something I could put around with, fly off the water with floats, and maybe mount a camera to get some aerial pictures.

The hinges are definitely not glued in. I took the screws out and the hinges just slide right out. They will be getting epoxied in with tooth pick to pin them in or maybe the screws put back in. It is just soft balsa where the hinges are, but this planes would not get going fast enough in a dive to rip them free. I guess old habits die hard, Hinges need to be glued in.

If this was intended for a beginner, you would think they would include more detailed assembly instructions. How do you glue the horizontal stabilizer in without smearing epoxy all over half of it because you have to slide it in from the side. How about suggestions on the best routing of the control rods through the fuselage so they don't interact with each other? How about instructions for installing an IC engine as well instead of just an electric motor?

I have built kits, scratch built, and assembled many ARF's, so I can do these things without the instructions. But what is included leaves much to be desired. It's great if you have an experienced modeler available to help, but your SOL if you don't.

I will enjoy flying this plane because it is I who assembled it and made the needed modifications to make it airworthy.

[Monza Red]

I agree that the instructions could have been improved vhoward. I've also built thirty or forty models ranging from small free-flight gliders to 1/4 scale stuff but I found it impossible to understand how the struts were supposed to be fitted to the wing on this model despite all of the photographs. In the end I epoxied some threaded rod (studding) to the hard-points in the wing and made up some ally brackets which fit to the strut using nuts and bolts. This lot is then bolted to the threaded rod with a nyloc bolt. No problems so far. I wrote an account of my solution which I've called, "Strutting My Stuff," which I send out with every kit I sell.

I solved the tailplane-glueing problem by stripping the covering from the central part of the tail and the fuselage, pushing the tailplane through from one side and only applying glue at the last moment to the exposed balsa wood of the tail, whiping off the excess when the tail was home and square in all planes.

I am curious to know however, why Hobby Lobby chose to mount the tail in this way. There are eight different Telemasters, five builder's kits ranging from 3ft to 12 ft in the wingspan, (0.91mtr to 3.65mtrs) and three ARTFs in the intermediate sizes. It is only the 8ft (2.4mtr) Senior Telemaster ARTF which features this way of mounting the tailplane. All of the others, including the Senior Telemaster builder's kit feature the tailplane on top of the longerons in the ususal manner. What's so hard about that, why should this one be different? This arrangement also requires the elevator pushrods to run over the top of the tailplane, aesthetically very unappealing.

As for the glueless screwed hinges, I've just checked the hinges on the "works" TSUK Senior Telemaster and on one I have in stock and they both feature mylar hinges pinned with dowel prior to covering.

Maybe they'd run out of cocktail sticks when they built yours!

Happy Landings


Dave Davis
TSUK

PS. My girlfriend built one of these under my supervision and an article was published in the British magazine, "Aero Modeller International" in June of this year.

[vhoward1122]

Now I have found a large square piece of wood loose in the right wing. I will have to open that bay where it is and figure out where it is supposed to be and re-glue it. Fortunately, they included some extra covering for repairs so I can match it up nicely.

Of all the ARF's I have had, the ones from Great Planes have been the best.

[Monza Red]

I don't know why I am bothering to do H-L's job for them but in my experience they will replace any defective part provided you notify them within a month of purchase.

Of course then you have the hassle of packing it up, sending it back and waiting for the part to be returned, it's often much easier just to repair it yourself.

[vhoward1122]

It is amazing how Hobby Lobby isn't interested in this post. You would think that customer satisfaction would be priority especially in this economy. I have emailed them without response. I don't want anything replaced as I have already fixed it. It would be nice to know that they would want to talk to the factory about quality control at least..

Thanks for taking the time Red to respond to me. It is turning out to be an OK plane now and will serve the function I intended.

I doubt I will take a chance with anymore Hobby Lobby products.

Vance

[Michael in Toronto]

It is amazing how Hobby Lobby isn't interested in this post.

Maybe they are.

Consider the following:

1. You started off rude simply by labeling this thread a RANT.

2. You made a lot of complaints.

3. You never asked for their help.

4. If I represented Hobby Lobby, I would not care to help someone who posts a statement such as "They did have that reputation, but no longer."

Do you normally "rant" to a wide audience when you have a problem, and potentially hurt someone's reputation?

Would it not have been better to contact Hobby Lobby first?

Would you have "ranted" had you spoke to them in person, or would you have been polite?

The internet is not an excuse for rudeness.

[vhoward1122]

Maybe they are.

Consider the following:

1. You started off rude simply by labeling this thread a RANT.

2. You made a lot of complaints.

3. You never asked for their help.

4. If I represented Hobby Lobby, I would not care to help someone who posts a statement such as "They did have that reputation, but no longer."

Do you normally "rant" to a wide audience when you have a problem, and potentially hurt someone's reputation?

Would it not have been better to contact Hobby Lobby first?

Would you have "ranted" had you spoke to them in person, or would you have been polite?

The internet is not an excuse for rudeness.
How is labeling a thread as a rant "rude"?
I made a lot of complaints because the plane deserves that many complaints. It is deficient in a lot of places.
I did ask for their "help" in the many emails I sent to them without getting any replies. I was not "rude" in any of the emails. I tried calling them and either get an answering machine, or a busy signal. Calls not returned. Maybe they are on vacation. Maybe their spam filters are deleting my emails.
I have done business with Hobby Lobby before and got excellent customer service from them, even with a previous problem. But now? Absolutely nothing.
I am not hurting their reputation, they are. At least to me they did.

[Michael in Toronto]

You didn't mention that you had tried to contact them.

Sorry, maybe my opinion was wrong.

[Flyboone]

Of course we are interested in this thread. We have been caught up in emails and support cases for a while now as well as returning voice mails. I'm betting we've replied to your emails and it's not making it to you. Please PM me some your information so I can track that down.

Thanks,
Jason Cole

[vhoward1122]

I am OK with this now. I have corrected the deficiencies and repaired the wing and the fuselage. It was quicker than packing the thing back in its box and sending it back to wait for the replacement. I never buy an ARF expecting to be able to use any of it's hardware, so that was a minor issue. The hinges really should be glued in as well as pinned. These were just pinned with screws. It is just soft balsa where the screw is and easily pulls out as was evidenced by my pull test that I perform for pre-installed hinges. Glue helps hold them in by spreading the load to more surface area. I have glued them and re-pinned them.

The Telemaster of any size is what appears to be a plane for a beginner. If I was a beginner having to depend on the instruction sheet included with this plane, I doubt I would have had a successful flight with this plane. Please consider re-writing the instructions.

Please consider talking with the China factory about quality control. There was no outward sign that there was anything wrong with the right wing, but there was a loose piece of balsa rattling around in one of the rib bays. I cut that bay open to find that there was a piece with very little glue on it that had come loose. I re=glued it. That is what makes me wonder if I should have stripped all the covering off and re-glued everything I could get to. Hopefully, that was the only piece to get little glue at the factory.

Man, I wish I had just bought the kit.

Vance

[vhoward1122]

Well, after waiting for a relatively calm day, I finally maidened this plane. It flies like a Telemaster. Slow, gentle, and takes off in 2 feet with the .91 four stroke, and lands very slowly and easily.

On the first take off, not knowing what to expect, I gave it full throttle and the plane just rolled 2 foot and jumped into the air. Flew it around and got it trimmed out, then landed it. On landing approach, I throttled down to idle and just about fell asleep waiting for this plane to land. Could have walked faster than it was going.

On the second take off. I only gave it 1/3rd throttle and the plane did a nice graceful rollout and lift off.

This plane will serve my camera plane duties very well as it is very stable in the air. Even in a gentle 6 - 10 mph wind.

I have purchased a set of sea commander floats for this plane for our clubs float fly days. I expect it will do great.

After fixing the problems I had with this plane, it is good.

[Flyboone]

Good to hear you got it up and running. Post some pics if you get a chance.

Thanks,
Jason Cole