getting first real heli.

[Orangehat44]

Okay heres my scoop. Im a 4th year mechanical engineering student. Growing up ive always been a simulator junkie (close to every janes combat sim there was) so i have a very good understanding of first person flight mechanics. I started flying RC planes this summer, I soloed after my 3rd session and just built and flew my second plane. I picked up RC planes very quickly and have very little difficulty with orientation issues. I have Real flight 4.5 and have been playing around with the helis every once in a while and started looking at it more seriously in the past week. My girlfriend is enjoys the hobbies with me and she thinks the helis are very cool and wants to buy me one for my birthday.

Between my studies as an engineer, my previous RC experience, my pervious First person simulator experience and real flight, ive decided and had that opinion backed up by other rc heli fliers that i start with a collective pitch model. I have flown coaxial in the past and never had a problem with it and i own a silly airhogs heli that i can fly around the house quite well. I want a CP because know i will be quickly bored with cx. And with my experience feel i will be able to progress along with a model. I dont plan on trying to pull off 3d stuff right off the bat obviously, I will take all the normal learning steps ( hover, then progress from there) and i know the smaller helis are very effected by wind, but i have patience and only fly in conditions im comfortable in and will wait for calm days. And tho i know sim is not real life, I can control the axe cp on real flight very well and purposly(ie i can put it where i want it and through manuvers i want to, im not just flailing it around the screen and using twitch reflexes to keep it up)

Anyways I have some constraints. Our funds are quite limited, $250 is probably the max we can spend. I live close to my college campus, and there is a park in my apartment complex, so there are ample places close by to fly.

The list i had put together from my own poking was an Axe cpv3, blade cp pro or pro2 ( not sure what the difference is with them), I looked at the helimax CP novus but i fear thats too small. (i like closer to the 20 inch size). I also saw the venom night ranger 3d on towerhobbies, it seemed to have similar equipment as the others.

Id prefer to buy from tower, since i have the supersaver membership so ill save shipping and they usually give money off depending on how much you spend, and they also have the easy pay options so i can reduce my costs. Though tower only carries the venom, and the helimaxs.

from what i read theres always reviews of helis in these sizes either being awsome or horrible ( usually for the same models) I know there is lemons out there, But are some really better than others? do all in this micro class suffer from the same common electric failures ( motor burnouts and the like)?

So in conclusion what do you guys think of my list is there one or two that are better than the others, or is there a differnt model i havent seen that fits my criteria. Thank you for all your help.

[grnbrg]

The $250 budget is going to be tight. It will get you a starter heli, but won't leave a lot left over for crashes. And while it does sound like you're capable of starting with CP, there will be crashes.

You might also consider of of the ESky 6 channel (http://www.xheli.com/esky6ch.html) helicopters. A RTF Belt CP or King 3 can be acquired for ~$200, shipped. This can be upgraded to a proper computer transmitter later. You'll have to order parts online, rather than at the LHS, but that's the price for inexpensive stuff. :)

If you're going to start CP, I'd stay away from anything with a motor-driven tail -- they tend to be a lot more difficult to fly.

You may also see recommendations to go with an inexpensive clone kit like the HK-450. I'd (personal opinion) avoid this unless you have some one who is willing to help you build it and set it up -- as a n00b you're not going to be able to tell if it's you sucking or the helicopter sucking. :D


grnbrg.

[Orangehat44]

They are sold out of most on xheli, but the esky belt cp 450 v2 is attractive. but Its not a total budget more of a budget for the inital buy, even at 250 i might help my gf pay for it. But i do work part time, but i have other bills obviously, but parts can easily be supported in my budget. But what about the few i listed, the blades and the helimaxes are at my lhs.

[Orangehat44]

but on xheli there are two esky belt cp 450 v2, ones 174 and one is 159, I dont see where the 15$ difference comes in.

[grnbrg]

but on xheli there are two esky belt cp 450 v2, ones 174 and one is 159, I dont see where the 15$ difference comes in.72MHz vs 2.4GHz radio.

The stock radio (in either case) is barely adequate to learn to fly on, but it gets the job done. I'm not sure there is anything other than a smaller antenna size for the 2.4GHz stuff to make it worth the extra $15. It will probably be less glitchy. :) For me, I'd spend the extra for the short antenna alone....

Others will weigh in shortly, I'm sure.


grnbrg.

ETA: XHeli isn't the only place that carries ESky stuff, just a url I had handy -- shop around.

[grnbrg]

But what about the few i listed, the blades and the helimaxes are at my lhs.I don't have any direct experience with any of them, so this is with a grain of salt...

I had a friend with an Axe CPv2 -- I don't know what improvements have been made in the v3, but his Axe almost made him give up on helis... Difficult to control, and fairly expensive parts. The Axe and the Blade CP Pros all have motor-driven tails and dedicated "4-in-1" controllers. The tails are slow to change speed, which makes them difficult to control. A belt driven tail is much better. They're also small, which means they are twitchier to control. Larger is better.

The Novus helis are rebadged Walkera helicopters. Look up the Walkera 4G3 for reviews.

It's not CP, and it won't be as difficult as you might be interested in, but you might also look at the EFlite mSR. It's a $200 ultra-micro fixed pitch heli. Easy to fly, fun to fly, and durable enough to bounce it off the floor (usually) without damage.


grnbrg.

[Balr14]

but on xheli there are two esky belt cp 450 v2, ones 174 and one is 159, I dont see where the 15$ difference comes in.

Cheaper one is 72 mhz, more expensive one is 2.4 ghz. The Belt V2 could use a programmable Tx. If you buy the 72 mhz version, you can find a used Futaba 6exh radio for $50 - 75. The stock TX is setup too hot, it's not a lot of fun to fly if you don't have experience. You will also need a decent 40 amp ESC. That should hold you for awhile.

Ultimately, you will want to upgrade other components, but that's true of any bargain heli.

[Orangehat44]

Im starting to like the belt v2, only down side is the need to order the parts.but i like that is the larger size.

[Balr14]

Im starting to like the belt v2, only down side is the need to order the parts.but i like that is the larger size.

Parts are easy to come by. Blade 400, Align, and most Trex clones parts will fit. I use an Align Trex 450 swashplate and head assembly, Blade 400 tail slider and EFlight gyro in mine; just because I had them left over.

[Orangehat44]

ohh thats cool so if i got that i could pretty much use the spare parts that are availible at the LHS?? so i woudlnt have to order them online?

[Orangehat44]

Is this size still "parkflyable"? Theres a park in my appartment complex size of 2-3 baseball dimonds. and on campus ( around the corner) there are bigger fields

[jasmine2501]

No heli is safe to fly in a park until you can control it well - except the ultra-micros like the mSR, and they don't fly too good outside anyway. I can fly my Trex 500 in a park - flew in the infield of a baseball diamond once, with rolls and loops and all... but I wouldn't expect to be able to do that right away.

400-class helicopters like the Blade 400 and Trex 450 are often suggested for beginners because they fly really well and the parts are cheap, as well as easy to get. There is also a lot of support for the 400 class both online and locally - it is by far the most popular size in electric helis.

But you do not fly like this knob in a park...
http://vimeo.com/2631694

I only did this one time - this park was a little too small and the people walking the dog could have been in danger... but it was Christmas and my little nephew loves helis.

[Balr14]

The LHS works well enough for a lot of parts, but do order some extra feathering shafts online; about 6 should hold you.

A 450 has a rotor diameter of about 24", give or take. I've used blades that give a rotor size between 22" - 26". The headspeed is pretty high, so the potential for damage and injury is there. I would use wooden blades. I fly mine in my yard, but it really could use more room. A small park is fine. The issue with any park is helis attract a lot of attention, so you must be very wary of people, especially children. Try to keep them behind you.

[arbilab]

In your position I'd go to Esky BCP2. I'd also count on replacing the entire radioset, as above, Esky stock TXs are inadequate. Might bust the budget unless you happen across a DX6i used for cheap. Set some aside for parts. Don't pay the GHz premium if you're going to ditch the radioset.

[Greybird]

For your first "real" heli, I would look at the Eurocopter EC130 B4. One of the best looking ones out there... ;)

[Orangehat44]

okay some im leanign towards the belt cp i think. Everyone seems to reccomend going with the 72 mhz one and picking up a cheap better 72 tx, (i will probably search for a used one, what woudl people reccomend for a cheap but adequate 72 mhz tx). Also what should i pick up with the bird if i get it, one reccomended a 40 amp esc. can you guys maybe give me some reccomendations of what i should get with it at initail purchase. In RC planes i have only done glow, so i know very little about the electrical components, and what i should and shoudnt get. So if you guys could maybe help me put together a "shopping list" of essentials. Thanks.

PS. I know not to fly when people are around, I would mainly go to campus most likly A.) we have a RC aero club where im sure i can find help( but im not 100% they have helis, i know they have planes) and B.) there are so many fields theres always 2 or 3 soccer fields or such that dont have a person near for 1000ft

[jasmine2501]

I think people are saying if you go the Belt-CP route, don't spend any extra money on it. Save the money for a better heli when you learn to fly. Don't you have a radio already?

[Orangehat44]

An old jr 631 not a heli radio by any means. only programming it has is flapperons and such. Are the higher radios capable of helix and planes? My jr will only served for maybe one more model. So I will prob be looking for a nicer radio next year. Can the stock belt cp serve me enough to get a taste of heli. Then once I get a better radio I'll have a better idea if I will be continuing down the heli path. So that being said what do I need with he belt other than radio equipment, is he esc a definite replace. And if so what are good escs. Sorry typing on gf's itouch if there are typos.

[arbilab]

Yah, I meant buy the 72MHz one cuz it's cheaper and you're going to closet the entire radioset and replace it with programmable, which today also means GHz.

Funny, I'm an expert on antique electronics, like why 50C5 superceded 50B5 audio output tubes (filament pin placement). But not antique RC. How the devil did this ever work at all, 20-30 years ago before everything was chips?

[jasmine2501]

How the devil did this ever work at all, 20-30 years ago before everything was chips?

Transistors, tubes, reeds, escapements, galloping ghosts, and so on. And it didn't work too good :)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280092

http://www.rchalloffame.org/Exhibits/Exhibit27/index.html

[Orangehat44]

http://www.xheli.com/20esbecpv26c.html

http://www.esky-heli.com/esky-belt-cp-v2-green-6ch-ccpm-rc-helicopter-rtf-000003-p-4340.html

They supposedly are the same as far as i can tell but 10 dollar difference. is there a difference, is one place better to order from than the other, or is there a different site i havent found yet that is better to order from? With the planes ive done most to all of my ordering from tower.
Also at my lhs they have 35A GWS, and electric fly brushless ones for 40-60 ish dollars are these okay?

[jasmine2501]

No, not really... the Electrifly Silver Series isn't great, and the GWS should be cheaper. I don't think the GWS is appropriate for helicopters. You can get a better deal on better quality...

A Phoenix is only a little bit more - top quality too.

http://www.readyheli.com/Castle_Creations_Phoenix_25_Brushless_ESC_p/phoenix25.htm

Or....

http://www.readyheli.com/Scorpion_Commander_35A_ESC_p/s-com35a-esc.htm

[ewoodcox]

okay some im leanign towards the belt cp i think. Everyone seems to reccomend going with the 72 mhz one and picking up a cheap better 72 tx, (i will probably search for a used one, what woudl people reccomend for a cheap but adequate 72 mhz tx). Also what should i pick up with the bird if i get it, one reccomended a 40 amp esc. can you guys maybe give me some reccomendations of what i should get with it at initail purchase. In RC planes i have only done glow, so i know very little about the electrical components, and what i should and shoudnt get. So if you guys could maybe help me put together a "shopping list" of essentials. Thanks.

PS. I know not to fly when people are around, I would mainly go to campus most likly A.) we have a RC aero club where im sure i can find help( but im not 100% they have helis, i know they have planes) and B.) there are so many fields theres always 2 or 3 soccer fields or such that dont have a person near for 1000ft

Well, I think that is a terrible heli as a primary heli, but it is cheap and you will learn.

Am I also to understand you will use your own TX/RX, hmmmmm, I might suggest you fly a RTF for at least 3 months. Helis do not fly like airplanes and your airplane flying experiance will not help as much as you would like to think. Although you will use the rudder properly on your airplanes after flying a heli.

Only after you can hover a heli and start some FFF should you really try to program your own TX. You won't even know how to fly and be trying to debug and tune a heli, complicated enought after your first crash using a RTF.

Everybody seems to hate 300 sized helis wth tail motors, I have several Axe CPV3s, modified with HH gyros and Spektrum receivers, fly great, learned to fly and fix helis using these stock. I've seen people maline the Blade CP Pro, Axe CP, and Esky HB CP, not sure the problem, trimmed and tweaked they fly great, on a computer TX it's even better.

Good luck, a RTF Belt CP is allot of heli, my first serious crash only cost ~$12, just had to wait for 5 days to get the parts. You'll want 2 to keep flying.

I know your a smart guy, the best way to stunt your flight training is to buy a heli w/o local parts support, on a major budget, and then try to program, troubleshootm and tweak a heli when you can't even hover.

My free advice: I'd likely go for the eflite Blade CP Pro, don't like the looks, but eflite stuff is top notch, EVERYONE SUPPORTS IT, and there is a large group of fliers who can help.

[arbilab]

Gotta inject from my priceline perspective, that Eflite charges a retail premium up to 100% over what Esky sells that's essentially the same thing. Neither is issue-free, in fact they are most likely to have exactly the same issues. Eflite will bind with DX/JR transmitters. Wanna pay double for that? Or add $50 to Esky to make it Spektrum compatible. Do the math that matches your circumstance.

[jasmine2501]

There is definitely a different perspective, but I can't imagine suggesting a CP Pro unless you are selling it. Yes, with the right upgrades and tweaks, it is flyable, but it's a horrible thing to do to a beginner. In order to learn, you've got to have a heli that flies good and doesn't have many bad behaviors. It is hard to find one like that, but the 300s with the tail motors really suck. I have flown a few of them, and never have I found one that was anywhere near as easy to fly as a properly set up belt tail. It took me 7 or 8 battery packs to even get the CP Pro to hold heading moderately well, and if I was a rank beginner at the time, it would have been crashed several times by then.

[ewoodcox]

I guess a Belt CP it is, I suggest a RTF and plan on upgrading the TX/RX when you have the cash. But learn to fly first. :p

[skizziks]

When you have the money change the esky servos....Tower pro 9s are cheaper servos but are much better...In this hobby it matters if you are into it for a few kicks and laughs or do you realy want to do learn extreme 3D...If you have low cash funds you can upgrade as you learn because you can always sell the heli later on and upgrade to a better heli...The blade cp pro 2 will cost a lot more to fix after a crash...Blades cost just about $20 a pair...The landing gear are like toothpicks and will break on a heavy landing...The main motor is a brushed motor...The tail motor is a direct drive brushed motor....Brushed motors wear out...The belt cp has 1 motor and it is brushless...The blades for the belt cp cost between $9 and $13...I had both helis and the belt cp is a much better heli....

[Balr14]

When you have the money change the esky servos....Tower pro 9s are cheaper servos but are much better...In this hobby it matters if you are into it for a few kicks and laughs or do you realy want to do learn extreme 3D...If you have low cash funds you can upgrade as you learn because you can always sell the heli later on and upgrade to a better heli...The blade cp pro 2 will cost a lot more to fix after a crash...Blades cost just about $20 a pair...The landing gear are like toothpicks and will break on a heavy landing...The main motor is a brushed motor...The tail motor is a direct drive brushed motor....Brushed motors wear out...The belt cp has 1 motor and it is brushless...The blades for the belt cp cost between $9 and $13...I had both helis and the belt cp is a much better heli....

The Belt CP V2 uses digital servos. I haven't tried using analog servos on my V2, but I didn't think that would work. An upgrade to better digital servos will cost over $150 and should include a digital servo programmer. Except for the tail servo, I don't see a thing wrong with the stock servos.

You are absolutely right on about the BCPP2, though.

[jasmine2501]

You can swap out digital and analog servos all you want. The differences are all inside, and it's a really small difference anyway. For something like the Belt-CP, I would bet that a high quality analog servo like HS-65 or something, would actually work better than a low quality digital.

[Orangehat44]

Thanks guys. Ill prob go the belt cp route then. Ill follow the normal slow learning route. Start with hovering and such. Also lots more sim practice. And progress from there. and ill slowly upgrade as needed. thanks for all your help.

[Balr14]

You can swap out digital and analog servos all you want. The differences are all inside, and it's a really small difference anyway. For something like the Belt-CP, I would bet that a high quality analog servo like HS-65 or something, would actually work better than a low quality digital.

Thanks for the info! I was hoping to use HS5055 digitals with a digital servo programmer down the road; just to see.

[jasmine2501]

Oh... if you can use that size, then the HS-55 servo will work great. I have maybe 30 of the little suckers and it's a really good servo. It has nylon gears which will strip in a crash, but it will stand up to the normal forces of flying just fine. I use them on my Blade 400 and they are fine for that.

Can be found for $10 or less...
http://www.hobbyhorse.com/hitec_hs55.shtml

[Balr14]

I have been using HS55s most of the time, for over a year. I just wanted to see what the digitals were like.

[arbilab]

Fun links to the distant past, Jas. I hadn't found those.

Around the time digital proportional was being invented, I was running an AM music station out of my bedroom that covered the neighborhood. Not sure what FCC would have said about it had it come to their attention.

[jasmine2501]

I don't think they would have said very much other than "do you want a lawyer" :D

[arbilab]

Hawhaw, but that's where I had them, I was underage. The most they could have done was confiscate my equipment.