Scratch build sport scale Widgeon

[jwhitacre]

Well this one has an interesting history. I've played around with designing the Widgeon a few times when I was a kid and was never satisfied with it. A few years ago while on a 2month business trip I had some free time and took another shot at this thing and IMO finally got something that would look pretty scale and also have good flying characteristics. Once I got home the plans went into storage until the winter to build...that never happened. I had actually forgot about these plans until I dug them up in the plans bin last night while searching for something else :rolleyes: I've been looking them over and even though it's a little large for the pond across the street I might go for it. Now before a single part is cut I want any suggestion/improvements that you guys would think is needed. I've scratched built a few planes before with good success but never a seaplane and don't want to leave anything to chance(which is why I've designed this plane quite a few times and never built it) The WS: 61.5" L: 49.75" I will figure out the WA tomorrow(can't find the sheet with all the specs I wrote out)

[jwhitacre]

I found the piece of paper with all the important info :) Here's the full specs
Note: I left some "grace" in the wing loading in case it went over weight
WA: approx 579in sq
AR: 6.2
WL: 19.9@5lbs, 23.8@6lbs
Airfoils: S8036 at the root, S8037 at the tip E168 for tail surfaces
I'm thinking a pair of OS25's would power it just fine

[jwhitacre]

I guess nobody has an opinion ;) I'm going to go ahead and build it over the winter. I'm starting to make up templates from the plans and working on a parts list

[vp46]

I have an opinion... and a question! :D

Can you explain the Incidence angles of the wings relative to the Thrust line or any information you have handy there??... Who's plans are these btw? :)

[Geoffinpdx]

There was a Widgeon thread in the Scale Electric forum, and I recently obtained the Widgeon plan that Bill Effinger did back in the 1970s. The defunct Comet models had a Widgeon of somewhat smaller size. http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8D6kSg_Hes4ShYYqpVJ1KvOkIuZcp_hooPDUhqJ9-If2L7CiGoENVIN9KrjJcZwtK8slrEMNvVwACZKpDZwVZ-AbaOqOdsPPxQ/Grumman%20Widgeon.pdf

[vp46]

Are you building one? I think SVX (Dusty?) had built from the Effinger plans correct? I hope those old comet plans are good.

[vp46]

I think SVX mentioned he was going with 0-0-0.... I was thinking maybe 0-0+1 (or maybe a compromise and +.05) for the motors.

<edit> I noticed in another thread that the incidence on the Widgeon full scale is +3 +3 +4.5 (for motors).... I think my plan may be on the money IE keeping the Decalage at zero <-- I think that is the correct way to phrase degree of incidence without reference to the Datum? <edit>

[prunner]

Found these on the web- thought they might help- good luck

[Airboatflyingshp]

those are in the free plans sticky and I have the colour scan the shaded areas are green If I remember always liked this more than the Goose it would make a nice Ivan P subject for geared S480s like the Sealand. Good luck nice subject.

[Geoffinpdx]

Some day I'll get around to building my Effinger-designed Widgeon. There's a neat article about a father & son team who rebuilt a pair of full-scale Widgeons in the Scale Electric forum:http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=969420&page=4 Post # 54.

[jwhitacre]

Thanks for the great info guys :cool: I will start cutting parts once the flying season is over and it starts getting cold out ;)

[rcmodelman]

Just added the to my subcrib, list. Hope you keep it up dated. Interested to see how this comes together. I want to build the Goose rather then the Widgon and I have not found any plans yet. So this will give me some insite as to develop some sort of plans for the Goose.

[jwhitacre]

I will post as I get time to work on it. This is one of our busy seasons at work so I won't have much free time til after Thanksgiving. I would imagine the Goose wouldn't be much different than the Widgeon as far as design. The outline of it is a bit different but I think the framing could be done basically the same.

[rcmodelman]

jwhitacre,

Did you draw the plans off a 3 line drawing? Is this a removeable wing?

[jwhitacre]

jwhitacre,

Did you draw the plans off a 3 line drawing? Is this a removeable wing?
it is based off the 3 view of the fullsize but tweeked a bit for better water handling and yes the wing will be removable.

[rcmodelman]

Jwhitacre,

That will work good for me. I had a 3 line drawing sent to me so will be able to work off it. Will just need to size it up to 96". This will be my first plans to design so it will be interesting.

[talob]

Anyone know where to get info on the retractable landing gear? Would make a really interesting giant scale project.
Mike

[dlazarus6660]

Mike,

Check out the July issue of Flying Models. There is a retract plan and article for the F4F Wildcat. Just enlarge them. Also, Model Airplane News has an issue and plans of the retracts. That issue came out in the mid-eighties. The same retracts were used in many of the early Grumman designs.

Daniel

[wallis_100]

Hi Mike

watching with interest, looks like a pretty cool project :D

i like the idea for retractable undercarriage, i believe in operation they are similar to the PBY-5 catallina, Grumman albatros, Short Sealand, CL415 etc.

there are several people out there who have done working retracts.

If your after simplicity rather than accuracy, Ivan pettigrew did a lightweigh set for a catalina at some point

scott

p.s. your plans show 'drilled' holes in the step regions, are you planning on ventilating them?

[jwhitacre]

Hi Mike

watching with interest, looks like a pretty cool project :D

i like the idea for retractable undercarriage, i believe in operation they are similar to the PBY-5 catallina, Grumman albatros, Short Sealand, CL415 etc.

there are several people out there who have done working retracts.

If your after simplicity rather than accuracy, Ivan pettigrew did a lightweigh set for a catalina at some point

scott

p.s. your plans show 'drilled' holes in the step regions, are you planning on ventilating them?

Holes, where? :confused:

[Geoffinpdx]

Ivan Pettigrew, who was mentioned above, has written some good info regarding seaplane hull, wing, and motor angles: http://ivansplans.com/Flyingboats.htm

If you had followed the Acme/Fly2Build Goose threads, you'd have learned that what's ummmm. errr... good for the (full size) Goose isn't necessarily good for the little gander!:rolleyes:

Geoff, who just got Goosed (bought the kit)

[wallis_100]

Holes, where? :confused:

Hi, Mike

SORRY :( my mistake, the holes were in the step formers on the 3-view, not your plan.
I HANG MY HEAD IN SHAME

I was just wondering, as PBW and myself are looking into this very idea on :http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1062431

Regards
Scott


P.S Geoffinpdx
Ah, someone else who know of IVANS wisdom eh? have you built any of his plans? As for the handling discepencies, its generally because relative to the full size, we are overpowered.... :eek: but then we have to be to deal with MOTHER NATURE, who won't scale air/water to help us out

[Geoffinpdx]

P.S Geoffinpdx
Ah, someone else who know of IVANS wisdom eh? have you built any of his plans?
Not yet, but have his Albatross and his Lancaster plans. I intend to build a York using Ivan's Lanc wing and tail on my own fuselage. Paul BW has sent some good shots of Yorks. I've gotten four Magnatic Mayhem motors and gearboxes for the project.

Geoff

[wallis_100]

Not yet, but have his Albatross and his Lancaster plans. I intend to build a York using Ivan's Lanc wing and tail on my own fuselage. Paul BW has sent some good shots of Yorks. I've gotten four Magnatic Mayhem motors and gearboxes for the project.

Geoff

lol, just be warned, when you start, its quite difficult to stop. :D
i have his twin otter 480, as well as plans for the Sealand (which for jwhitacre's attention, i was considering a scale retracting UC) and his minicat

good luck with them

scott

[jwhitacre]

Well guys, I'm starting to cut out parts;) After a lot of suggestions to go larger on the other forum I'm sticking with this size:p I have plenty of larger birds and don't need this to be one of them. Anyway on with the build:)

[vp46]

Good to hear you are moving forward with this one-I'll be watching!

I just completed and have flown a 34in ws Gummy band conversion/bash of the Widgeon. Have yet to manage to make it to water, using plug in gear..Been a lot of fun!

[Geoffinpdx]

You got some photos, VP46?

Geoff

[vp46]

Sure - really had a lot of fun with this one. Fuse was stick built, sheeted, then covered with 1/2 oz cloth using z-poxy finishing resin. This was my first twin and first flying boat.

[Geoffinpdx]

Sure - really had a lot of fun with this one. Fuse was stick built, sheeted, then covered with 1/2 oz cloth using z-poxy finishing resin. This was my first twin and first flying boat.
Very nice! Has it gotten its bottom wet yet? Or do you not live near a big enough body of water to find out whether it IS a waterplane?:D

Geoff

[vp46]

YEs and no... I have in-laws with a lake... and a boat. We visit on a regular basis so at this stage just trying to get the darn thing trimmed out - VERY CLOSE to completeing this. I have been tweaking the wing and playing with the CG as well as refinishing the hull in the process (on my third refinshing.. only two required more resin ;) )

[vp46]

OH btw she is pretty darn heavy by flying boat standards... FAST and fun though, 1.9 lbs AUW.

[jwhitacre]

She looks purrrdy:cool: I would imagine you are going to need a long stretch of water to get it up given the high wing loading.