New, Deluxe V3 from Donuts models [Archive]

3Don

Jul 05, 2009, 07:06 AM

Hello guys, i have wonderfull news, FINALLY my kits are released. Donuts models did fantastic job, and i believe now we have best indoor kits in the world. Its quite brave announcement, but when you look how Jerome and his team work it make sence. First of all they use ligher and really flat extrupor that is specially made for indoor kits, this is much better than depron. Printing quality and attention to details rocks, im really happy i will not need to airbrush so much right now;) Hardware is also much much better from what i saw in many kits its light and very precise. Time is bit problem as always, but durring next couple weeks i plan to make building review of both new Deluxe and Sultimate.

http://www.donatas.rcmodeliai.lt/foto/deluxedonuts/deluxetail.jpg

EnzoFalconi

Jul 05, 2009, 07:23 AM

Is a JR DS188 servo strong enough for the ailerons on this plane or would a Futaba 3114 be a better choice? I'm expecting my kits to arrive in the USA next week. Have you tried the EP2202-1550 motor that is shown on the web page for this model? What is an average flying weight for an unmilled version of this plane?

Thanks for the great planes

Michael

wardo78

Jul 05, 2009, 07:33 AM

The plane looks beautiful, is there a US distributor?

Thanks,
Wardo

3Don

Jul 05, 2009, 09:19 AM

Michael, new motor from Donuts, should work just fine, but plane was designed for slightly heavier AXI 2203/52 that can swing 9 inch prop, wich is good for braking in downlines.

With lighter motor you will have to put everything in front to get right CG. Maybe slightly heavier battery, wich is good for longer flying time.

I don't remember exact weight, original Deluxe V3 is in France right now...;)
I can give you weight and rest info when i will finish building Donuts kit.
In any case final weight is not so important, it will be heavier than most F3P monoplanes, but its ok since plane is really big, and wingloading should be even lighter than one you have in most small F3P planes.

JR 188 will be enough for eilerons for sure, i flew with only one servo in prototype and i really like it. I think its better than dymond D47.

For USA dealer as far as i know Jerome is working on this right now, but if you don't want to wait, write email to Jerome and order one directly from France right now: "DONUTS" <donuts-models@club-internet.fr>,

richard boyd

Jul 05, 2009, 10:58 AM

Donatas and Jerome, you have produced a beautiful High Quality kit.
2009-2010 will see lots of Deluxe and Sultimates fly !
Well done , I am looking forward to flying this plane.

Richard

aero104

Jul 05, 2009, 11:40 AM

EnzoFalconi

Jul 05, 2009, 12:40 PM

Hi Don,

My 2 Deluxe V3 kits are already in the postal system and on their way to Califronia. They should arrive in a few days. :D I ordered the EP2202-1550 motors because it was shown as one of the motors suitable for the Deluxe V3 in the text below the photos of the model. It had the EP listed as well as an Axi, but the EP costs less, so I bought them. I also bought a Sultimate, so now I have 3 great planes. Too bad I'm not a better pilot. :p

Michael

Azarr

Jul 05, 2009, 12:51 PM

Hey guys,

www.hobby-lobby.com is US distributor.

Send your requests to them at the link below:

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/case.htm

Donuts models currently in stock (http://search.hobby-lobby.com/psearch/svc/search.php?uid=1&q=donuts&submitit.x=0&submitit.y=0&submitit=Search)

Personally I have been requesting the Sultimate and V3 to be carried. :)

Chris

Unfortunately HL does this quite often. They convince an overseas manufacturer to give them and exclusive and then instead of bringing in the whole line they bring in only one or two models. It's very frustrating.

Azarr

Andycap

Jul 05, 2009, 01:58 PM

Don Ive been through the painstaking process of developing my own AM and F3P models. I know just how much work is involved, Congratulations to you and Jerome, Again a stunning model with a scheme to match

Andy

Donuts

Jul 09, 2009, 07:14 AM

Hi guys
to answer to Azarr

i agree on some points
We at DONUTS released a lot of new planes over the last 18 monthes and the only new item HL brought was the Elipsia (only few pcs) and they just did bargain sales without even advertising on the plane.

too bad for HL, the Elipsia became 3 times french F3P champion this year. it could have been a great hit for HL
Anyway.
as a manufacturer we look for a distributor that brings our whole range
at this time nobody does the correct job for the US

this is why, after many inquiries from US pilots to get our planes, and the fact that they were not available at HL, we decided to provide directly to pilots when they ask for.

For those who do not know about these new planes please find a link here:
http://shop.donuts-models.com/boutique/liste_produits.cfm?code_lg=lg_fr&type=13&num=14

Cheers
Jérôme

EnzoFalconi

Jul 12, 2009, 03:46 PM

I just received my Deluxe V3 kit and it's an extremely well done product. The graphics are done better than any kit I have purchased so far. The waterjet cutting is amazing. It leaves a finer cut than any process I have seen. The kit comes with high quality hardware. Donatas and Jerome from Donuts have teamed up to market a very nice plane. I'm looking forward to getting mine flying.

Thanks for a great kit

Michael

Jim Woodward

Jul 15, 2009, 12:54 PM

GREAT looking planes! Too bad there is not a US distributor yet.
Jim

aero104

Jul 15, 2009, 05:56 PM

I just got my order in yesterday. :)

I can't wait!

Chris

nakorn

Jul 16, 2009, 10:50 PM

Very grate pilot and f3p indoor

chere's/nakorn

eli5539

Jul 17, 2009, 11:13 AM

Where are you folks ordering these from, I can not seem to find them

EnzoFalconi

Jul 17, 2009, 11:29 AM

You can order direct from Donuts Models in France. Jerome is a great guy and very helpful. Donatas and Jerome have teamed up to produce a very high quality product. I'm in the USA and it was worth the cost to buy my Sultimate and Deluxe V3 and have them shipped here.

Michael

eli5539

Jul 17, 2009, 11:56 AM

I too live in the USA, that explains why I can not find a us supplier. I only have a month or 2 left before I start indoor flight again and this bird looks like it maybe a nice addition. Michael how long did it take to receive your order

aero104

Jul 17, 2009, 05:30 PM

Where are you folks ordering these from, I can not seem to find them

see post #10

order directly from donuts-models.com

Azarr

Jul 18, 2009, 10:28 AM

Hello Jerome,

Is it possible to get any of your kits without the printing? I'd like to use my own color scheme.

Azarr

3D-Seth

Jul 19, 2009, 10:38 PM

Don,

Looks like a great airpane from you and Donuts. Might have to get one of these someday if I can ever get the money to ship one over!

Seth Arnold

c-182

Jul 22, 2009, 09:37 PM

Sounds like we need a USA importer.

EnzoFalconi

Jul 22, 2009, 10:28 PM

It's very easy to get one from Donuts. I emailed Jerome and got his paypal account info. Within a day my kits were on their way. Order more than one kit and the shipping drops per plane a LOT. Two or three kits ship for the same as one due to the weight size used by EMS for cost calculations. Since we get a price break in the USA by them not having to add VAT, we probably don't pay any more than if a dealer sold them here. Most people buying these in the US would still be paying shipping from outside their home area.

c-182

Jul 23, 2009, 08:49 PM

Roughly how much for a V3 kit US dollars and how much shipped to USA ?

Donuts

Jul 24, 2009, 06:04 AM

66 euros for the kit
29.5 Euros for shipping (same price for up to 3 kits)

cheers
Jérôme

aerolite

Jul 24, 2009, 08:24 AM

66 euros for the kit
29.5 Euros for shipping (same price for up to 3 kits)

cheers
Jérôme

Today's exchange rate:

95.5 euros = $132.53 US

aerolite

euros calculator

http://www.unitconversion.org/currency/euros-to-us-dollars-conversion.html

öple

Aug 11, 2009, 11:35 AM

Hi guys

I have now built deleuxe v3.

My components:
Motor a 2204
controller phönix 10
servo 2 fs 31 and 1 jr 185
Accu Extremepower 2s 300mAh
receiver ar 6100e
Wight 145gramm

cheers
Christian

jet A

Aug 12, 2009, 05:31 AM

Hello everyone.
I know the quality of this planes, I have two Vega an One Progress from Donuts models. Right now I,m training for F3P in the Spain, and I wish to know if this Deluxe is a better plane for this job.
Some one can help me.

Thanks in advance

richard boyd

Aug 12, 2009, 10:19 AM

Hi Jet A, I have a few Deluxes and they are a truely beautiful plane to fly.

Richard

jet A

Aug 12, 2009, 11:48 AM

Thank you Richard.
I´ll get one an let´s see. :)

EnzoFalconi

Aug 17, 2009, 02:43 AM

Where should the CG be for a plane that is neutral in pitch for upright and inverted? The instructions in my kit don't give any recommendations. I'd prefer to get it set it as close as possible before I fly it.

Will the plane fly much differently without the small top wing? I'm still fairly new to RC and that part looks like it would be easily damaged in a crash. I know, the cure is not to crash, but unfortunately I still do it occasionally. :o

Thanks

Michael

3Don

Aug 20, 2009, 02:56 PM

Michael,

Quite funny story but i don't know exact number;) I left my Deluxe V3 in France after French championship, it was to difficult to transport it safe home. But from my expierence i can suggest mount everything ESC, elevator servo and battery, as much as possible in front. Also icg will be different if you glue front wing pieces and if you decide not to glue them. If you plan fly more agile and difficult sequences, you don't need these parts, if you beginner and plan to fly simply sequences i suggest to use them, it will slow down plane.

Hope this help. Affter EXFC i will prepare manual together with donuts.

CPLR canard sure help in few ways, and its not so fragile if you make it stronger with carbon pieces. I cut it in half and glue flat piece of thin carbon 0,5 mm affter that i support it with 0.7mm carbon rods that are connected to fuselage and in X shape are connected to tips of T-canard, i had several inverted landings and it was ok. Bigger risk to damage it is durring transportation, be carefull its really big plane;)

EnzoFalconi

Aug 20, 2009, 07:15 PM

Thank You for the information. I love the way the plane looks. I won't have access to the gym as soon as I thought, so I am currently building an epp version of the plane like I did for my Sultimate for outdoor use. I never get completely calm conditions to fly in. The epp versions are great since I'm relatively new to RC and I crash more often than those of you who are good fliers. I'll email you some photos of the epp V3.

Michael

richard boyd

Sep 11, 2009, 05:38 AM

The instructions in my kit don't give any recommendations. I'd prefer to get it set it as close as possible before I fly it.

Hi Michael, the new instructions tell us that the CG is located 250mm -260mm behind the motor mount. Again you will need to play around with the CG depending on what equipment and add ons you have on the Deluxe. Hope this help with your build.

Richard
www.expressfly.co.uk

EnzoFalconi

Sep 11, 2009, 02:23 PM

Hi Richard,

Thank You for that info. My instructions are the early version and they're pretty basic. They have more than enough info to build the model, especially if you've built one of these foamies before, but the cg info was missing. It was included on the Sultimate instructions.

Cheers
Michael

DaveL322

Sep 16, 2009, 05:37 PM

richard boyd

Sep 24, 2009, 03:49 AM

Hi , I have my New Deluxe V3 finished and now ready to test fly !
I totally enjoyed this build as everything fitted perfectly together and even the small holes for the carbon strengthener were made for you.
Fantastic quality plane from Jerome,Donatas, Thanks

Richard
www.expressfly.co.uk

Ron.S

Sep 24, 2009, 10:42 AM

Succes with the maiden Richard :)

I also bought a DeLuxe V3, and it's paintjob is realy worth the money!
There is a small fault in one of the parts where the cutter had been ~3mm off center, but it is a white part so i just cut a new one.
I see you didn't installed the 4 triangular parts on the wing. Do these only make the wing stronger and more stiff, or do they have positive effects on the handeling?

Regards,

Ron

3Don

Sep 24, 2009, 12:34 PM

Hello Guys,

Good to hear you like your models, tommorow i will start build my own. And give some ussefull tips and suggestions. Main of them are use holes in airbrakes they are necessary, to not disturb air and create to many turbolense, (it can effect your flight affter loop). To make holes use old not necessary radio antena, you simply need one piece of it, make edges sharp with ussed knife and simply cut as much holes as possible.

Reason why this is not done by Donuts is simply, with so many brakes and holes it increase price of cutting, since its already hi compared to other kits available on market, we decide not to do this. Believe me guys this is very easy and fast to do.

I will try to explain why i use this triangle and what advantages it give. Deluxe V3 is different size compared to Deluxe V1 and V2, basically wing is smaller and ailerons are much bigger, this improve snap roll characteristics. Also with smaller wing plane feel less influence from turbulence left by propeller, im sure many of indoor pattern pilots remember old F3P-A sequence maneuver loop with half roll integrated on top. Almost every time when you finish loop you fly in to turbulent air left by your plane when it enter loop. Its one thing you can not control and usually in competitions get lower points if plane “jump” on exit. With smaller Deluxe V3 wing i notice this problem is not so big as i had on deluxe V1 and V2. Naturally making smaller wing area give me other problem, now wing loading become bigger and plane is faster. So this support triangle add about 3 square dm of wing area, and add huge amount of strength. And last but not least ailerons become little more effective since air is in some kind of tunnel , and when aileron is deflected down, air have no space to go other directions, and rolls are faster. Fabien Turpaud and Gernot Bruckmann use this update on theyre planes, this show that my idea is working and its worth to try.

richard boyd

Sep 24, 2009, 12:39 PM

Hi Ron , and thanks for nice comments.
The picture I took of under side of wing was taking during building, I now have these pieces in place. Small triangular pieces act as brakes and large pieces do help with handling ! also these will help with strength of your wing.
I also have no holes in the aileron brakes as I want to see the difference between handling.

Richard
expressfly

Ron.S

Sep 25, 2009, 01:35 PM

Thanks for the tips Donatas! I was always struggeling with the holes, but the antenna is a great idea!
I just mounted the underside of the plane and the carbon V.

Ron

3Don

Sep 25, 2009, 02:28 PM

Hi Guys,

With the help of Donatas (long time email friend) and Jerome, I recently put together an order of kits for myself and some friends in the northeast....and I got a few extras. If interested, PM me for details. I can bring them to NEAT, KIEF, or JR Indoor. I probably won't see email after about noon on Thursday when I leave NEAT as I am staying onsite.

Regards,

Dave Lockhart

David thank you for help making Donuts/My design more popular in USA!!! With your help it will be much cheaper deliver kits for US customers, also one great feature kits will come in perfect condition. Currently im finishing Sultimate and as soon as i get it in air to practice new AM routine il finish Deluxe. First competition test is German F3P championship.

Ron , no problem mate, build it slow and precise, then it will fly long time and give you pleasure. I suggest to mount all equipment in front of plane to avoid problems with CG, in other hand if you don't use front piece for wing increasment CG will be fine with very light equipment.

Ron.S

Sep 25, 2009, 04:46 PM

I suggest to mount all equipment in front of plane to avoid problems with CG, in other hand if you don't use front piece for wing increasment CG will be fine with very light equipment.
My setup:
-Axi 2203/46
-3x D47s (looks like the holes are made for them)
-Turnigy 6A ESC
-2s 350mAh 20C ~18gr
-AR6300

Would i have any CG problems with this? or is that only the case if you use motors like the Strecker 195.03 and other 12~14gr with 240mAh batterys of 13gr?
I'll use the closed loop system that comes with the kit, that will save some weight in the back. This will be my first closed loop in a smaller plane then my Su29 50E, so I'll take my time to get it perfect.
I noticed the servo arm that comes with the kit is actually larger than the rudder horn, Shouldn't these be the same length? In this way it would amplify the servo deflection and reduce the strength. Am i right?
Tomorrow I hope to do the CF to the tail and the landing gear.

Ron

Azarr

Sep 25, 2009, 08:08 PM

David thank you for help making Donuts/My design more popular in USA!!! With your help it will be much cheaper deliver kits for US customers, also one great feature kits will come in perfect condition. Currently im finishing Sultimate and as soon as i get it in air to practice new AM routine il finish Deluxe. First competition test is German F3P championship.

I got a Sultimate from Dave, it's definitely a beautiful kit, the printing is just outstanding. I'm working on a few other projects at the moment, but hope to have it flying at the KIEF in mid Oct. Thinking about adding a Mamo upside down system for fun.

Thanks to Don, Jerome and Dave.
Azarr

EnzoFalconi

Sep 28, 2009, 12:50 AM

3Don

Oct 05, 2009, 10:55 AM

Hi Donatas,

Is it better to cut the upper canalizer and add a 3mm x .5mm spar across the middle or to use .13mm material and run it across the leading edge as shown in the photos of one of your personal planes? I noticed that you have done it both ways, but on different V3's.

Thank You

Michael

Hello Michael, there is no difference, both ways work fine, more important is to have X carbon rod support that join T Canard with fuselage.

Yesterday i test my new Deluxe. Im very happy with the way how it fly, first flights were done without CPLR wing and wheelpants. Only few small negative things i saw so far: very small coupling in KE to wheels and to backward CG. Installing rest of aerodynamic updates and puting some stickers infront of nose to move CG forward.

Few building tips for you, use pull push (1mm carbon rod) instead of pull pull, it will leave yoour fuselage straight and control will be more precise.

If you use JR 188, simply use plastic horn instead of one fiberglass that is included with kit, that part is ok for Sultimate but here you will get to big deflections on ailerons.

Material Donuts use is very light but also quite soft compared with depron, so for ailerons i suggest to use flat 0,5x3mm piece to extend line where control horn is glued.

Today im going for one more flying session, and try to make close pictures of all changes and updates i made.

EnzoFalconi

Oct 05, 2009, 11:49 AM

HI Donatas,

Thank You for your post. I have my model built and was about to rig pull/pull for the elevator. I'll switch to the carbon rod method. I have some .13mm carbon ribbon that should work well for the aileron reinforcement. Would it help the aileron stiffness to add a strip for the entire trailing edge of the aileron? I have a Futaba S3114 for the ailerons. I used a DS188 for the ailerons on another depron plane and it had lots of sloppiness in the aileron travel when they were neutral and they shook a lot until you started flying. The sloppiness is caused by the gears in the DS188's. My landing gear is slightly heavier than a regular model because I added wheels so I could fly it outside on calm nights. I used GWS light spoked wheels. It adds 1.3 grams to the plane with wheels and the wire for the axles. My model should weigh about 166 grams when ready to fly with a lightened Rhino 2s 360. Will it fly much faster than yours that is milled?

Cheers
Michael

3Don

Oct 08, 2009, 07:43 AM

Michael, extra weight in front such as wheels should help to keep CG in place. But i suspect 250 is to light and you might have to backward CG. Deluxe is probably biggest F3P plane available as kit. And normally weight without battery should be about 145g + 20g battery. So wing loading is low even if RTF weight is 165g, if you make plane to light it will star fly "funny", not sure how to describe it, but its same case like when Derk Van der Vecht build Click lighter than 100g, that did not flew as well as 130g version.
About milling it help to make speed slightly smaller, but it will not be huge difference. Milling extrupor don't give so much weight saving as milling depron, but i still do it because of braking effect it have, when you look at milled wing it have allot of small steps in milling that actually work as brakes.

I made one more change for my deluxe i add another T canard under fuselage, since with one on top it had small tendentious to roll to wheels. Now with second canard under wings its fully symmetrical, and fly VERY good. But still small Rud to Ail mix was necessary to make it perfect, i will share all my setup (throws, CG, DR, MIX) tomorrow.

Here couple pictures of my Deluxe while i was building it.

EnzoFalconi

Oct 08, 2009, 12:11 PM

Hi Don,

Can you please post a photo of the additional canard?

Thanks

Michael

EnzoFalconi

Oct 08, 2009, 02:32 PM

Hi Don,

This is the motor I'm using. It's a lightened Turnigy 2204-14. I did it on my cnc mill and it only takes a few minutes once the fixture is installed on the machine. With a carbon shaft it weighs the same as my Axi 2203-46. The 2204 will swing a 9x4.7 prop without getting hot, so I'm hoping for similar performance to the Axi 2203-52. I have some EP2202-1550's from Jerome, but they are a couple grams lighter than the Axi or lightened 2204. For cg reasons I'll use the 2204-14 on this model.

Michael

EnzoFalconi

Oct 09, 2009, 02:30 AM

Hi Donatas,

Is the V3 model you took to France different in shape or size than the model we can buy as a kit? The photos I have of that model don't show an additional canard on the bottom like you mentioned adding to your personal kit. I also noticed what appears to be a greater number of smaller diameter holes in your underwing brakes than the French contest model. Is that a refinement or are the holes in the contest model a good size to use? Will the kit foam be OK without the added tape reinforcements at the carbon glue points as shown in your current photos? The kit instructions didn't mention adding the tape. I already have my carbon installed without that tape and this lighter foam seems to be slightly softer than the other depron kits I have bought from other companies.

Thank You

Michael

Jurgen Heilig

Oct 09, 2009, 03:47 AM

...
I made one more change for my deluxe i add another T canard under fuselage, since with one on top it had small tendentious to roll to wheels. Now with second canard under wings its fully symmetrical, and fly VERY good. But still small Rud to Ail mix was necessary to make it perfect, i will share all my setup (throws, CG, DR, MIX) tomorrow.
...

Hi Don,

looking forward to seeing how the Deluxe compares with designs like the Helix, the Manta V3 and whatever the top pilots from Switzerland, Czech Republic and the Netherlands will using next weekend.

:) Jürgen

EnzoFalconi

Oct 12, 2009, 03:23 AM

Hello Donatas,

Are you only using 55% power from your Axi 2203-52 on the V3? I have programmed throttle curves for my T Rex 450SE, but I didn't know they were useful or needed on an indoor f3p.

Thanks

Michael

Ron.S

Oct 14, 2009, 10:28 AM

to Enzo falconi.

I also used throttle curve on my Clik. The AXI 2203/46 is just to powerful for a 140gr plane. Reducing the power with the trottle curve gives it a less sensitive response in the usefull area. You can also use it when your plane reacts sensitive when hovering. But i won't need this on my Deluxe.

My Deluxe is finished for a week now. I build it as the manual says. But i made holes in the brakes, and i moved the rudder servo forward. I used a custom GFK horn on the aileron servo (otherwise i had extreme deflection and my servo was resonating!)
With the 2s350 Zippy my CG is at 162mm from the engine mount. So i'm first going to fly it without the white strip on the LE. If the CG is a little front heavy i'll add them to get more wing. The battery weighs 18,6 grams (with connector), so i could use a heavier one, but my origional Hyperion 240's are way to light.
The Deluxe weighs 155gr (RTF) now. Batteries are charged and the maiden is planned for next sunday. :D

regards, Ron

Ruud_NL

Oct 14, 2009, 05:07 PM

Hey Ron,

Looks realy good, good job!!! :) I'm very curious about the flying.

See you soon
Regards
Ruud

www.f3p.eu

Ruud_NL

Oct 15, 2009, 04:29 PM

Donatas,

Can you tell us how deep you go with the milling?? What kind of factor (50/50, 30/70 etc) makes that you still have a solid part and light?

I've started milling parts tonight. I want to put it on the weightbalance before and after to see the effect. Have you done that too? What kind of "rendement" do you get with milling?

BTW; thanks for sharing the settings in the transmitter, realy cool!!!

Regards
Ruud

www.f3p.eu

Ron.S

Oct 19, 2009, 10:42 AM

The Deluxe has spread it's wings! I made 2 flights last sunday.
My first reaction was that this plane with its 155grams has a realy smooth look in the air. I had to put on 2 grams in the nose to get the CG a bit forward. The AXI 2203/46 with 8x4,3 prop has just the right amount of power.
But i need to get used to the rudder response in knife-edge. Maybe i need more Expo, I'm now at 65%. I set my aileron deflection to 45deg, it rolls fast enough for the low dutch halls.

Here are some pics in it's natural habitat. I can't wait till the next training!

Regards,
Ron

3Don

Oct 20, 2009, 03:12 AM

Ron good to hear you like the plane. I use AXi 2203/52 with 9x4,7 prop, (that help bring CG in front) and also make downline speed slower. now i plan to work on custom propeller for this motor, lets hope i can find time for all my ideas;)

German championship was first test for Donuts Deluxe. I was happy with plane performance, and i think it did quite well, what i can not say about myself (i was not really ready for such level competition, i spend one week without practice in China, but its another story). After German championship i have motivation to test some new thing, and first of them will be super light Deluxe.

Il share my progress here and in my homepage.

Rudd for milling i left 1mm from 3mm, so 33/66 ore 40/60, would be good starting point.

EnzoFalconi

Oct 20, 2009, 04:19 AM

Azarr

Oct 20, 2009, 05:46 AM

Hi Donatas,

My model is being built unmilled and will weigh about 162 - 165 grams with a 19 gram battery.

Michael

Dave Lockhart won the F3P "A" event at KIEF this weekend with his Deluxe. He may comment, but he told me he was at 146g without the battery which would put him right about where you are weight wise. I was amazed at how slow and surprised at how large the Deluxe is.

Azarr

3Don

Oct 20, 2009, 05:47 AM

Hi Donatas,

In an ealier post you said a plane that is too light may not fly well. What do you feel is a good weight for a Deluxe based on your current experience with it? My model is being built unmilled and will weigh about 162 - 165 grams with a 19 gram battery. I'm using a S3114 and 2 DS188's. The esc and AR6300 are stripped to save a couple of grams and all leads are just long enough to reach the rx. My interest in a lower weight model is primarily to get a slower flying model. The gym I'll be getting access to is fairly small with an 8 meter height. I have another V3 that can be built lighter if it will help.
Thank You
Michael
Michael, thats what i want to find out, how super light Deluxe fly compare to regular unmodiffied version. I learn that lighter model i flew beffore had issues with CG. So hope with right CG even lighter planes can fly as good as stock heavier Delexe i have now. My goal is to have slower plane with same stability. We will see how it goes, i will share my experience here.

I just check my milled Deluxe is 172,5g, so your weight is even better;) I use 20g battery.

Cheers,
D.

Jurgen Heilig

Oct 20, 2009, 05:53 AM

...
Deluxe is probably biggest F3P plane available as kit. And normally weight without battery should be about 145g + 20g battery....

The only bigger model available is Gernot Bruckmann's SPARK or the older REFLEX design from BPLR.

The Deluxe V3 was the biggest and heaviest model at the German Indoor Championship by quite a margin. The majority of F3P models are still 800-840mm wingspan and weigh approx. 100-110g.

:) Jürgen

3Don

Oct 20, 2009, 06:04 AM

Jurgen i don't think latest Gernot Spark is avalable as kit, and Reflex is AM not pattern plane ;p

Will be interesting to see how Deluxe on diet fly compared to one i have now;) Avcourse it would be good to have German championship each month to see how updates work compared to best German planes;)

DaveL322

Oct 20, 2009, 02:01 PM

146 grams is correct, and I am using a TP PL V2 350 which adds 23 grams. I had limited time on the plane before KIEF, but got quite a few flights at KIEF, and am very happy with the way it flies. The plane is very solid flying fast or slow, and I heard many times that it had the most "locked in" appearance of the F3P planes at the event. Thanks Donatas and Donuts for this great flying plane!

My plane uses Neutrino, Phx 10, GWS 8x4.3, 6110e RX, adn 3 x 188 JR servos. I have stretched the nose a bit (Neutrino is lighter than AXI Donatas uses), and moved the equipment forward to move the CG forward, so this added a couple grams.

I fly in some very small gyms (25') and a large blimp hangar (big enough to have it's own weather patterns, and substantial breeze). I am going to build another Deluxe V3 as light as I can for the small gyms.

For anyone in the US interested, I have the Donuts Deluxe V3 kits available substantially cheaper than ordering direct from Donuts. PM m for details.

Regards,

Dave

Dave Lockhart won the F3P "A" event at KIEF this weekend with his Deluxe. He may comment, but he told me he was at 146g without the battery which would put him right about where you are weight wise. I was amazed at how slow and surprised at how large the Deluxe is.

Azarr

öple

Oct 20, 2009, 02:16 PM

hii
i made my deluxe easily i use for all cable Copper Wire.
my deluxe wight now 133gramm wit the battery
motor epower 2202
regler thunderbird 6
1 jr 185 2 fs 31
battery 2s 240mAh Hyerpion
revicer ar 6100

cheers

chrigi

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs222.snc1/6933_1131819817888_1299044311_30339360_1021252_n.j pg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs234.snc1/8127_1130811912691_1299044311_30335983_2562772_n.j pg

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs214.snc1/8127_1130811992693_1299044311_30335984_6991308_n.j pg

Ron.S

Oct 20, 2009, 02:34 PM

133gr with bat. :eek:
Thats 22gr lighter than mine!
Keep in mind that lighter planes do not always fly better, but it will go extremely slow!

The deluxe flies very slow and smooth to what i'm used to.
How much expo and deflection do you guys use on rudder?

Ron

öple

Oct 20, 2009, 03:09 PM

i find the deluxe flight better now with 133gramm than 155gramm because teh plane is calmer.

i have on aile -70 % expo, on elvetor -70% expo and on ruder -100 %expo

cheers

3Don

Oct 20, 2009, 03:37 PM

Outch 133 with battery, that's 41g lighter than my Deluxe!!! I start milling new Deluxe kit and plan go with lighter battery and some other updates to keep it lighter. Ople can you take video of your Deluxe in flight? What about cutings on fuselage, i suspect they change KE characterystics, how plane make integrated maneuvers with this update? How much weight you save?

By the way guys i have Awesome news from my mate David Lockhart from US, New Jersey, here is his email for me and Jerome;

This past weekend was good indoor F3P contest, and Expert class flew German version of FAI F3P preliminary schedule. 6 ETOC pilots competed, and most flew Fancy Foam Osiris. I flew Deluxe V3, and won competition.

You can see info here:

http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg107/47710-keystone-indoor-electric-fly-wrap-up.html
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1120744

At KIEF, I fly Osiris planes of RJ Gritter, Jamie Hicks, Lee Morey, and Devin McGrath and setup of CG is all similar to my V3. All pilots tried my V3, and think it is very good plane. Devin bought some kits and will probably use at 2010 ETOC. Lee also has his V3 flying, but will keep flying his Osiris until he makes modifications for his V3 CG to match mine. Extra pictures attached show changes in my V3 to make roll rate faster and make CG forward.

Congradulations David, and thank you one more time for great representation in USA!!!

öple

Oct 21, 2009, 10:33 AM

my delxue wight previously 155gramm with the axi 2203/52 and i didn`t easily (stripping)
now ih made all component easly.
my sulti wight 123 gramm with de battery!!!!
whenn are wou want i can send picture per mail form my deluxe.
in 2 weeks i`m going to fly in the halle i will make a video;)

cheers
chrigi

pvtzemerak

Oct 26, 2009, 09:03 PM

Hey guys,
I used a FF yak first my first F3p competition, and ive been looking around for 2 acuall F3p worthy planes.
My first one is a fancy foam Osirus. Im pretty much deciding that this is going to be my second one, i love the look of the Deluxe V3 and the SUltimate.
Subscribed,
Cant wait to hear more!
--PvT

eli5539

Oct 27, 2009, 08:23 PM

Ruud_NL

Nov 01, 2009, 12:46 PM

Donatas,

Just a question about the milling. On the wing you have done triangels and on the ailerons and elevator little squares at the end only. Can you explain why? Does more milling on the the controlsurfaces making them weaker?
As far as I could see you didn't mill the underside of the horizontal part of the fuselage (tail part). Is it wise to not do? Or can you do without problem?

Thanks in advance!

Regards
Ruud

DaveL322

Nov 04, 2009, 11:13 PM

For anyone going to JR Indoor this weekend, I will have some kits with me, and several will be flying.

Regards,

Dave

3Don

Nov 06, 2009, 07:22 AM

Here is my new Deluxe on diet;) Milling save 15,7g, i would say that's quite impressive. Milling tail make things much better with CG, now with AXI2203/52 and Wess 8x4 carbon prop i have front CG, this mean i can put battery servos in place and battery will be almost on CG, this will allow me to test different weight batteries without mmaking changes to plane. Looking forward to see how new Deluxe will fly.

Andycap

Nov 06, 2009, 09:22 AM

Will the milled version be making its way over to the EIM with you Don?

jet A

Nov 06, 2009, 12:21 PM

Wow!!!

Really nice work. It saves a lot of weight. DON please write down about the conclusions, if the mill work results ok.

Best Regrads

Chris-DC5

Nov 06, 2009, 01:12 PM

I like the look of this model.

How do you do the milling or is it done at the factory??

And i am interested in the fillets that are on the wing bracing?? how do they help???

Thanks

Chris.

Vibe Ration

Nov 08, 2009, 07:15 PM

Hi Donatas,

On your web site, you sugest AXI 2203/52 with GWS 9x4.7 propeller. I accidently bought 2203/46... do you suggest same prop with it?

Thanks!

Ron.S

Nov 09, 2009, 05:02 AM

I have the AXI 2203/46, with GWS 8043 prop. If you use the 9x4,7 you will have more power, but it will draw a lot more amps.
My Deluxe weighs 155grams (not milled) and i think it's just the right amount of power.
The seasons first F3P competition is just 6 days from now. Can't wait!

regards,
Ron

Vibe Ration

Nov 09, 2009, 05:49 AM

Thanks Ron!

Good luck for your season! :)

3Don

Nov 09, 2009, 04:42 PM

Wow!!!

Really nice work. It saves a lot of weight. DON please write down about the conclusions, if the mill work results ok.

Best Regrads

YES! Just test plane, it fly better than one i had in Germany. Weight now with battery is about 133 g, i will add some more small updates (brakes, different prop) and then can see final weight, but already now i see that it fly better than first 172g Deluxe i had beffore;)

Andy this plane will travel to EIM with me.

Vibe normally 46 is made for smaller prop. I think 9x4.7 will be to much for it. But since in F3P you need thr curce and only about 50percents of power, i think you can make some measurment and see how much amps it draw. And if its reasonable fly and compare wich one work better for you. Some pilots like 8 some 9 inch props, its question of taste;)

Vibe Ration

Nov 09, 2009, 09:01 PM

50%!!!!! Gosh... Deluxe V3 is that lightwieght!!! hahaha

I am a helis flyer. I decided to try a 4Site few weeks ago and I totaly felt in love with indoor planes! :D I saw your videos OMG and I bought my Deluxe V3. I should it received tommorow. With my 4Site, I need to be at 75% to hover (well I need to say it has a pound of epoxy glue on it now!!! hahahahahaha). I just can't wait to fly your plane! You did a great looking job! ;)

Now I understand you throttle curve.

3Don

Nov 13, 2009, 12:13 PM

Vibe be sure you will not rush with building, more carefully you build and spend time on setup, more satisfied you will be with final result!

Ok guys i already flew new milled Deluxe few more times, and i must say i like lighter Deluxe more and more. I add rudder brake, two TCatalyzers one on top and on under fuselage both 0 degree. I also put back GWS 9x4,7 prop, it sure gave more braking than WES 8x4. It fly slower than Deluxe i had in Germany even without BIG brakes on ailerons. Overal each maneuver improve, point rolls are easier to do precise. Also 45 degree upline with 4 point roll looks much better without droped tail. Milling save almost 16g, also milled tail solve problems with CG, its much easier to balance it right, and give more freedon to put equipment where you want. Also i change battery packs now i use 16g 300mah packs from Donuts models. Last equipment change was esc i change good old phoenix 10 to thunderbir 6, it also save few grams. Overal plane is about 35g lighter than one i had in Germany;) This mean one i had in Germany is even heavier without battery than new one RTF;)

Here some more pictures as i promise:

F6Bert

Nov 13, 2009, 12:39 PM

You like the lighter deluxe more and more so... donuts gonna sell a milled version???

Andycap

Nov 13, 2009, 02:19 PM

Nice work Don,

I see you dropped the parachute brake too. The model looks nicer without the Aileron Airbrakes too

Andy

3Don

Nov 15, 2009, 05:01 AM

Bert, i can as Jerome about this , but last time we talk about this, he mention it will be very expencive, so i don't think there is much point for doint special milled version.

I think its better idea to include stencils from depron with kit, ore add wt as possible extra with bevieling tool and stick plane for practice.

Andy parachute brakes are in place now. Pictures were taked first night i flew. Hower i like plane much more without brakes on wings.

Andycap

Nov 15, 2009, 05:07 AM

We found out during testing of our new Silent Angels that removing the brakes makes for a much nicer machine. We also use the Axi 2203-52 and 9" prop to provide the only braking for the model. Milling is a slow process for CNC and I understand Donuts are set up for Water jet cutting and not routing so it would be very expensive as you say. Really looking foward to December now Don and seeing you fly the Deluxe in the flesh

Ron.S

Nov 18, 2009, 10:03 AM

Hi guys,
I've some good news!
Last sunday i won the Dutch F3P-B with the Deluxe v3!
Here are my results:
1 Smetsers;Ron 545.6667 (R1:255.0000) R2:264.0000 R3:281.6667
With that score i'm 30 points ahead of the 2nd, i hope i can keep that untill the end of the season.

Every flight i like the plane even more. I just got it trimmed straight now but my engine angle is still a bit off. There is definitly potential in the plane!
But i wished i milled it out before i built it. It flies great, but when milled i could chose some different batteries and save at least 10g!
So keep that in mind for the next plane, but i can finish this season with the deluxe, and probebly longer.

Regards,
Ron

3Don

Nov 18, 2009, 02:09 PM

Ron, congradulation with victory, really happy for you! And you right about potential of Deluxe, hope we can meet in some competition this season, then i could give you my milled Deluxe for test flight, i was pleasantly surprised how better it fly without big brakes on ailerons and when its build very light. Do you have any videos ore pictures?

Ron.S

Nov 18, 2009, 03:10 PM

Andycap

Nov 18, 2009, 03:19 PM

Hi Donatas, i want to go to the BMFA Electric Indoor Masters in Bradford UK 5-6 dec. But for now i have no transport. Also the ferry trip isn't cheap so i think i'll be staying at home.
There is a vid of the first round, i'll ask him if he can upload it on youtube or send it to me. But my 3rd flight was way better.

Pity you cannot beg a lift Ron

Ruud from R Planes, Winfried De Vries, Derk, Bert and Peter van de Riet are all coming. If things change please contact me, there is no cut off date for international contestants

Andy

Ruud_NL

Nov 18, 2009, 03:28 PM

Hi Ron,

I have a photo of you the hall of fame :-)

http://www.rplanes.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ronsdeluxe.jpg

I'm just doing some video of the first round of the Dutch championship. Will upload yours tonight. Link will folow here. Anyway great performance!!

Regards
Ruud

www.f3p.eu

Ruud_NL

Nov 18, 2009, 04:25 PM

And here your video. I have no idea which round this is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geE6RZEU2b4

Regards
Ruud

www.f3p.eu

Ron.S

Nov 18, 2009, 04:31 PM

Ruud from R Planes, Winfried De Vries, Derk, Bert and Peter van de Riet are all coming.
Thanks Andy, but i already contacted Ruud, but his car is full. I'm still waiting on the response of the van de Vecht's but i can't expect them to stow the car uncomfortable full so i can go with them. It's a preighty long trip.
I still have to ask one or two days off from school but that won't be a problem.
I'll let you know when i got some news.

Regards, Ron

Edit: Thanks for the vid Ruud, i think it was my first round indeed. I hope all the Deluxe customers are as happy as i am ;)

jet A

Nov 20, 2009, 12:21 PM

Thanks Don for your impresions about the milled version. It´s really nice to have your feelings and updates for the deluxe. I allready order one to join the spanish F3p seasson. First I´ll try to build a normal one then may be I try to mill another.:)

Andycap

Nov 20, 2009, 02:46 PM

I'm still waiting on the response of the van de Vecht's but i can't expect them to stow the car uncomfortable full so i can go with them. It's a preighty long trip.
I still have to ask one or two days off from school but that won't be a problem.
I'll let you know when i got some news.

Nice flying anyway Ron, Keep it up

Trisquire

Nov 21, 2009, 03:05 PM

Jurgen i don't think latest Gernot Spark is avalable as kit, and Reflex is AM not pattern plane ;p...........Jürgen may have been referring to Gernot's '07 Spark which had a 1,000mm wingspan. In '08, Gernot reduced the size a little. The '07 Spark is still available on the HEPF website:

http://shop.hepf.com/index.php?cat=c359_Indoormodelle.html

I saw some of your Deluxes flying at the JR Indoor a few weeks ago. In the hands of a good pilot, it's an impressive plane.

Tom