Supra setup dumb question and help with EVO setup

[tony w]

Guys,

as always, I very much appreciate all the advice I have gotten on these forums.

I am now venturing into 3M sailplanes. I have a new (to me) Supra that I am starting to setup on my Royal EVO TX. I have downloaded the setup file by Dr. Drela, but there are a couple things that I could use some help with.

1. In reading all of the control throw distances, most of them are divided up, for example:
aileron +15mm
aileron -11mm (I do not have the exact numbers in front of me).

The rudder throws, on the other hand are given as +/- 62mm for the rudder stick. I cannot see any way to make the rudder go 62 mm each way, so does this mean that this is the total control surface movement from all the way left to all the way right?

2. I would appreciate any EVO users letting me know if you were able to achieve the entire suggested setup with your EVO? In particular, I would appreciate your letting me know the settings of your flap and rudder mixers, as they are both pretty complex.

Thanks very much,

Tony

[Anker]

If you can't get your rudder to move 62 mm to either side you need to put a longer control horn on the rudder servo.

Anker

[Jack Hyde]

I don't have a Supra but I do have ac EVO programmed to fly an Aegea --2 flaps,AL RU and EL. My program is a little different than Drela's but does the same tricks.

I assign spoiler to the E slide and flaps to F slide. I then use 3 mixes:
Aileron+ inputs are aileron 69% flap 8% up -10% down
Flap+ flap 6% 39% spoiler -98% 31% aileron 1% 1%
vtail+ elevator 90% 90% rudder 90% 90% spoiler -20% -20%

With the E slider up and flap slider center the flaps are neutral. When I move the v slider down the flaps drop. If I have the v slider up and move the f slider down the flaps and ailerons both drop for increased camber.Moving the f slider up reflexes both the flaps and ailerons. Moving the aileron stick right raises the rt aileron and the right flap, lowers the left aileron and flap.

Crow can be adjusted by changing the % aileron in the flap+ mix.

This is pretty dry stuff. I am pretty sure it is correct for my plane. I have uded this program for yearts on 6 planes and still like it.

[tony w]

Anker,

I wondered about the control horn, but the model is very well constructed and I would be surprised if this simple error in construction was made. On further exam, it appears to me that the rudder cannot physically move 62 mm to either side regardless of the size of the control horn. The actual hinge line of the rudder is maxxed out at around 35 mm to either side.

would love to hear from any Supra owners.

Tony

[Anker]

Anker,

I wondered about the control horn, but the model is very well constructed and I would be surprised if this simple error in construction was made. On further exam, it appears to me that the rudder cannot physically move 62 mm to either side regardless of the size of the control horn. The actual hinge line of the rudder is maxxed out at around 35 mm to either side.

would love to hear from any Supra owners.

Tony

Tony,

Is this the molded Supra made by Vladimir and sold in the US by Barry Kennedy? I know several owners of that ship and I think I would have noticed or heard if the rudder moved that little, but I can check if you confirm.

No my (non-Vladimir) Supras I have the amount of throw specified by Mark Drela.

Anker

Anker

[tony w]

Anker,
I guess I did not know that they might have come from different places. This one has wing #275 written inside the root of the wing if that makes any difference?
Tony

[tony w]

Anker,
It was sold to me here on RCG as a "Molded glass version sold by Barry kennedy". Does that help?
Tony

[spinolio]

Tony, check this thread out. You have a Kennedy Composites molded Supra:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=683470

The top section has links to a lot of good info.

Call me if you have some questions.

[John Walter]

Anker,
I guess I did not know that they might have come from different places. This one has wing #275 written inside the root of the wing if that makes any difference?
Tony

That sounds like a molded Supra not a bagged ship. Go to:

www.kennedycomposites.com

and buy the Supra template set. It really helps to set up the launch, cruise thermal and speed modes correctly.

[lesterpk]

Tony, dont stress over getting the throws exact. From memory I can only get about that much throw on mine. Rudder on the Supra is very powerful and doesn't need much movement to be effective.
Les

[tony w]

Guys,

I am embarrassed to report that all is well with my rudder throws. I have never had a plane before where the control surfaces have a larger chord in some areas. I was measuring the rudder throws where my little throw meter would fit....at the top of the rudder. I measured at the bottom of the rudder this morning. 60mm throws no problem. I am learning. I now see that all throws are measured at the longest chord. Duh.

Here is one more question.....I have ordered the wing templates to help me set reflex/cruise and thermal, but in the meantime would like to get things close for a possible toss this weekend. Where can I get a defined starting point for reflex and camber???

Specifically, if the aileron is lined up with the fixed part of the wing out at the tip of the wing, and the flap is lined up with the aileron, is that any one of the settings?

Thanks,

Tony

[sleep4]

Reflex setting on the Supra will be the aileron/flap setting when the bottom of the wing is perfectly flat using a straight edged ruler to check. Thermal setting will add 2-4mm more aileron/flap down from there.

[tony w]

Sleep,

I can do that. What about the ailerons? At the reflex setting, will the ailerons line up with the flaps?

Tony

[sleep4]

Tony:

Yes, my ailerons and flaps will line up on all fixed settings. I only use reflex and thermal settings on my Supra (after launch). I cruise around in reflex and use the thermal setting for going up in a thermal. You can use multiple thermal fixed settings if you wish or you can also put the wing camber on a slider if your radio will do that. There is really no gain to reflexing the Supra wing more than what I described above. I have found those wing templates unnessesary.

[tony w]

Sleep,

That is exactly what I needed to know. thanks very much.

Tony

[John Walter]

I have found those wing templates unnessesary.

How do you ensure that the flaps are in the proper position for cruise and thermal? Close is OK, but to optimize performance you want to have the precise position on all surfaces.

[sleep4]

I used the Drela setup for the Supra wing aileron/flap settings which used to be available on the Charles River web site. (It's now being reconstructed). This was how he recomended it be done. Some cut templates from his plans. However if you insure a completely straight underside wing surface, you have achieved his reflex setting and can set the launch and thermal settings from there using a deflection meter. I don't use a cruise setting. I cruise in relex as I believe Drela does.The ends of the ailerons on my wing also line up with the fixed tips when set to reflex.

[tony w]

Sleep,

thanks again for the input. I got almost all of the setup done last night, with just a little more to do tonight. I think I see some trim tosses in my near future!!

I will be curious to see if the templates hold true to my estimated positions.

The crawl/brake controls on my spoiler stick seem a little tricky. If you go just a little bit too far, you are out of crawl mode. Do most Supra pilots use the crawl mode? Are you close to stall in this mode?

Thanks again,


Tony

[sleep4]

Flap deflection to 90 degrees for braking is not mandatory although some people like it. I think my full deflection is to about 75-80. As you apply flaps using the throttle stick, the increased lift during the first third of deflection will balloon the model, so some down elevator compensation will be needed. Trial and error at safe altitude is the best way to tune this setting. Most pilots use the throttle stick to advance flaps incrementally beyond the thermal setting instead of a "crawl' setting. Matter of personal preference.

[Jose E Bruzual]

I used the Drela setup for the Supra wing aileron/flap settings which used to be available on the Charles River web site. (It's now being reconstructed). This was how he recomended it be done. Some cut templates from his plans. However if you insure a completely straight underside wing surface, you have achieved his reflex setting and can set the launch and thermal settings from there using a deflection meter. I don't use a cruise setting. I cruise in relex as I believe Drela does.The ends of the ailerons on my wing also line up with the fixed tips when set to reflex.

Then I wouldn’t say they are ‘unnecessary’ but just another way of doing the setup, as templates are probably the most accurate and fastest way of checking setting in a contest setting, at any rate the information on the CRRC site still available for everyone to acquire

Just go to the homepage, and on the upper right hand corner there is a link to “old site” click there, and you’ll be able to get all the cool CRRC content

Or use this link

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles.htm

[sleep4]

"Then I wouldn’t say they are ‘unnecessary’ ''

My point is you don't have to use the templates to accurately set the flaps and ailerons on a Supra. He indicated he wanted to get some tosses in before the ordered templates arrived. This was a way to do that.

[Robglover]

I made my own template using the drawing from Charles River's website, before Kennedy made them available. I find that the template makes it quicker to set things up. As John says, the template isn't necessary. My template also has the launch setting marked, which would be harder to find without a gauge.

[Jose E Bruzual]

"Then I wouldn’t say they are ‘unnecessary’ ''

My point is you don't have to use the templates to accurately set the flaps and ailerons on a Supra. He indicated he wanted to get some tosses in before the ordered templates arrived. This was a way to do that.


sleep4,

Thanks for explaining what you meant

-j

[Rairwalk]

Guys,
How much aileron travel are you programming in for optimal banking/rolling? I have 14mm up to 8mm down on my Supra-E in low rates. Just got my Supra Pro and have it set up the same. I only have one day of flying with it in breazy conditions so I can't say for sure if this is the optimal differential setting. Thanks for any info.

Rick

[Robglover]

Guys,
How much aileron travel are you programming in for optimal banking/rolling? I have 14mm up to 8mm down on my Supra-E in low rates. Just got my Supra Pro and have it set up the same. I only have one day of flying with it in breazy conditions so I can't say for sure if this is the optimal differential setting. Thanks for any info.

Rick
Rick -
The info is on Dr.Drela's plans here - http://charlesriverrc.org/articles/supra/supra.htm
It's a good starting point, you will probably change things to suit your own tastes after flying the plane a while.

[Rairwalk]

I've read Mark's setup. Just wondering what some other pilots preferances are. Thanks.

Rick

[sleep4]

I've tried differing aileron throws on the Supra with and without differential. I came back to Dr. Drela's 14 mm up and down as my final aileron setting. I found these settings gave me the most roll response with the minimum of adverse yaw. I have been adding 30% expo for distant thermaling. (I use some rudder/aileron coupling to coordinate the turns and combat what little yaw occurrs.) As Rob says trial and error is the best way to find what suites your taste.

[Rairwalk]

Thanks sleep4. Anyone else using 0 differential, or other preferances?

Rick

[Neil Stainton]

I use zero aileron differential, and no aileron-rudder mixing in normal flight mode. I'm no expert though.

Neil.

[Rairwalk]

Thanks Neil.

[Rairwalk]

A source said to try 100% up (mine being 14mm) to 70% down (mine being 10mm) which would be a 30% differential. This will require less rudder input to correct adverse yaw.

Rick

[Neil Stainton]

Not wanting to get in an argument, but an even more reliable source says zero differential.
See Mark Drela's posts (especially #70) in this thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552660

Also post #7 in http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552660

You will find many more if you search.

Neil.

[Rairwalk]

Thanks Neil. No argument here. The more information the better. Thanks

Rick