Hyperion Z5045 18B - Help

[Tang]

Looking for some advice/help with my Hyperion Z5045 18B and Hyperion TITAN 90A HI-PRO Brushless ESC OPTO. I was running the Zoar 24X10E prop without a problem on 12s. I must admit the performance was lacking I thought. My results seemed to be similar to Geoff Dryer with around 3100 watts WOT. The plane is a Hyperion Yak180E and comes in at 16lbs on the nose with batteries.

Now for the problem............I changed the prop to a 25x12.5 APC and now the motor cuts out when I go from 1/4 stick to full. I've tried changing all the settings on the speed controller with the programming cable from hyperion, no luck.

Do you think its speed contoller issue? :confused:

Thanks

Jamie

[Z06kal]

Must be hitting the current limiter on the ESC good chance you are maxing it out. I'm running the same setup in my SU-26 the Z5045 on a 24x10 XOAR. What didn't you like about the performance? Geoff said that is supposed to be like 27 pounds of thrust? Did you tach the RPM?

[drstillpatient]

Looking for some advice/help with my Hyperion Z5045 18B and Hyperion TITAN 90A HI-PRO Brushless ESC OPTO. I was running the Zoar 24X10E prop without a problem on 12s. I must admit the performance was lacking I thought. My results seemed to be similar to Geoff Dryer with around 3100 watts WOT. The plane is a Hyperion Yak180E and comes in at 16lbs on the nose with batteries.

Now for the problem............I changed the prop to a 25x12.5 APC and now the motor cuts out when I go from 1/4 stick to full. I've tried changing all the settings on the speed controller with the programming cable from hyperion, no luck.

Do you think its speed contoller issue? :confused:

Thanks

Jamie

What batteries are you using? on the same model, I used a Xoar 24x12e prop on the same motor and ESC and the power was very very good with Hyperion 30C 4500mAH li-pos. With the same setup, Polyquest 4350mAH 25C packs were not very good for power. just a thought.

[Tang]

Thanks for the replies...........the batt's are some zippy 5000 (20C - 30C) and some hyperion 5000 (16C). I know the hyperion batt's are low on the C rating, but the zippy's are giving me similar results as other people running the same setup.

drstillpatient - What watts/amps are you getting on the 30C packs?

Z06kal - I was thinking that 27lbs of thrust would be more than enough, but it just seems sluggish hauling a 16lbs plane around. With my setup and if I set the throttle stick at 1/2, I'm only pulling around 500 watts. Most of the available power seems from 3/4 to full stick.

I did try using a JXF 24x12 (Hobby King prop), but had the same cut out results. It seems like peope with the Hack A60 18L with a 25x12.5 prop are having better success. Some of the threads have video of guys moving around a 19lb AJ Slick with nice authority on the Hacker/Castle speed contoller.

Thanks again for the suggestions

Jamie

[mackone]

Hey Tang , Is the meter still talking to the Esc , Can you list what you have the settings at . Eg - Timing , and Cutout . And what sort of plugs are you running from your batts ?

[Tang]

Hey Tang , Is the meter still talking to the Esc , Can you list what you have the settings at . Eg - Timing , and Cutout . And what sort of plugs are you running from your batts ?

My settings/hardware:

ECS - Auto Timing, cutout 2.0V per cell (No cutout), tried different delays in ECS programming. The only delay that worked was setting 10 - major delay in spool up (like 5 - 8sec to go full throttle)

Plugs - Deans connectors on batt's and 3mil bullets on esc to motor.

Jamie

[Tang]

I continue to fly and love my Hyperion Yak. Recently I changed from the APC 24x12 propeller to a Xoar 24x10. Here are the numbers on my test stand

Hyperion Z5045-B18 motor
Turnigy Sentilon 100 Amp ESC
2 Hyperion LVX 6S-5000 batteries (12S)

APC 24x12 propeller
26 lb 2 oz thrust
86.5 Amps
3712 Watts

Xoar 24x10 propeller
27 lb 10 ox thrust
71.5 Amps
3134 Watts

I have recently changed all of my larger planes to Xoar propellers and seen similar increased efficiency. I now fly my Yak an extra 2 minutes each flight.

The above message was from Geoff Dryer - My results are very simiilar to his Xoar 24x10 prop.

Maybe its just me, but the power seems nonlinear in relation to stick position.

Do other electric users use throttle curves to change the feeling in the sticks?

Jamie

[blucor basher]

Jamie - on the Hacker A60-18L systems we fly, the Xoar 24x10 does indeed feel sluggish, and we don't run it. The 1/2 square (pitch = 1/2 diameter) are much more satisfying, although that is an intensely personal opinion, and pilots often want different props to suit their style.

If you can force the system to run with the very large prop by reducing the acceleration value to minimum that it seems likely that the timing constraints in the ESC will make it impossible to run that large prop in an aerobatic setup. The only solution may be a different ESC. On the Hacker motor, we have very good luck with the Castle 110HV *on the 1.55 "old" firmware*. On the new 2.0+ firmware it acts much like your system. A properly set-up CC 110HV gives us the ability to run the 25x12.5 prop on 12S...however even on 17-18lbs. the 24x12 gives very, very good performance and is plenty for us.

Because our experience is limited mostly to Castle and Spin controllers, so far we haven't needed throttle curves. Even the Turnigy 100A had a good throttle feel before it failed and there was no need for a curve to fly aerobatics.

To avoid the problem of trying to quantify what "good" throttle response is, I'll link a video of the Hacker setup on 12S 5000mah and 24x12 prop on a 17lb. plane, 12S 5000mah Zippy 15C. You can hear me playing the throttle in the video, it's not laggy at all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iONnNBQxtOc

Anyway, if I had your aircraft, given my comfort level with the CC stuff, I'd probably change to a 110HV controller, and I'd probably run the APC24x12e by choice. Much luck, that's a really nice flying aircraft you have.

[Geoff Dryer]

Hello Tang;

Maybe your batteries are not holding their voltage at high amp pull. This would certainly account for the performance lag. Recently my YAK started to lack power and then my original 20C hyperion batteries puffed. I cannot complain as I got 100s of cycles of of them. I just bought a pair of Hyperion G3 CX 6S-5000s to try. I will let you know how they perform. I dropped the capacitors off my Hyperion ESC so I replaced it with a 90A Hobby City ESC. This controller seems to be a bit smoother on startup.

[Tang]

Thanks guys for the great information.........I think if the plane came in around 14.5 - 15lbs, performance would be ok @ 3150 watts. I like the run up feel of the 3750 watts I got on the ground with the 25 x 12.5 prop. You can roll into the throttle slow and get the timing to hold to WOT. I like to do the back of the heel test against the stab........if WOT becames uncomfortable I know I'm getting close.

Thanks

Jamie

[drstillpatient]

Thanks for the replies...........the batt's are some zippy 5000 (20C - 30C) and some hyperion 5000 (16C). I know the hyperion batt's are low on the C rating, but the zippy's are giving me similar results as other people running the same setup.

drstillpatient - What watts/amps are you getting on the 30C packs?

Z06kal - I was thinking that 27lbs of thrust would be more than enough, but it just seems sluggish hauling a 16lbs plane around. With my setup and if I set the throttle stick at 1/2, I'm only pulling around 500 watts. Most of the available power seems from 3/4 to full stick.

I did try using a JXF 24x12 (Hobby King prop), but had the same cut out results. It seems like peope with the Hack A60 18L with a 25x12.5 prop are having better success. Some of the threads have video of guys moving around a 19lb AJ Slick with nice authority on the Hacker/Castle speed contoller.

Thanks again for the suggestions

Jamie

Max amps with 24x12 Xoar E prop on the ground at WOT was 84-85 Amps. I left default settings on the ESC and experienced similar cutoff, it was gone when i changed it to two positions higher delay.

[mackone]

Id go with the DR tang , I run a 4025 hyperion and had probs , with the timing setting on the esc when using big props , try setting the timing to high . Is the motor screeching at all? when you power up quickly . :)
Big bullets also seem to be the go with big amp set ups , the deans can be " a kink in the amp draw " and restrict the flow to esc .

[blucor basher]

the deans can be " a kink in the amp draw " and restrict the flow to esc .

Still running Dean's above 100A here with no issues and no heating of the connector.

[Tang]

I'm going to try the CC 110HV - I need around 3700 watts of power to lose the slugglish feeling I think????

Do you guys recommend the 25 x 12.5E APC or the 24 x 12E APC?

Thanks

Jamie

[kmp647]

stick with the 24x12e til yu get the 110 up and running and have a couple flights

[baykah]

Xoar 24x10 propeller
27 lb 10 ox thrust
71.5 Amps
3134 Watts


I'm very please with this one on my EF yak 54 88 at 18.7lb ready to fly
8min flight, same power as DA50 (with tuned pipe)

[Tang]

I'm very please with this one on my EF yak 54 88 at 18.7lb ready to fly
8min flight, same power as DA50 (with tuned pipe)

I've been reading this forum for sometime and I agree that most seem happy with Geoff results. My package I thought just seem to lack the performance I expected. Maybe flying profiles and following the Pro Bro scene made me a little power hungry.

I installed the new CC 110HV today with the 1.55 firmware. I'm getting 3600 watts @ 82amps on the 25 x 12.5 APC.

Blucor Basher - Do you have any speed controller setup recommendations that you are currently running?

Thanks again guys for all your help

Jamie

[blucor basher]

Low timing
Acceleration #3
LVC disabled (set to a very low voltage you'll never hit)
Current limiting disabled


I get 3700-3800 W on 12S5000mah Zippy 30C on APC 24x12.

My altitude is 1,600 ft ASL.

[baykah]

Btw, I allready changed once my Z5045-B after front bearing faillure (~40-50 flight) and the second is also loosing oil in the cowl. It's getting very hot 60°C on the outer case.
Anyway, this motor is not for sale anymore, I hope the replacement ZS will come rapidly ... and without price increase (but as seen on the duo and the ZS < 40diameter, I'm dreaming.)

[kmp647]

my z504518B has left oil in the cowl too, but it has not failed or even become noisy

[Tang]

Hi Guys,

Took the Hyperion Yak for a rip with the new speed controller and 25 x 12.5 APC...........all I can say is it feels NICE. The uplines feel smooth and climbs with authority. I'm back on the stick for nice circuit flying and when you need a nice climb for a blender you just roll into it.

I also have oil streaks in the cowl........from the first flight on the 24 x 10 I had this. Is this something to worry about or just some excess oil in the bearing?

[baykah]

my z504518B has left oil in the cowl too, but it has not failed or even become noisy

I'm balancing my Xoar every week now, so far so good for the 2nd motor.

[Geoff Dryer]

Hi Guys,
I also have oil streaks in the cowl........from the first flight on the 24 x 10 I had this. Is this something to worry about or just some excess oil in the bearing?

Mine left a grease ring then about 6 flights later the bearing failed. Watch for a change in the sound of the motor.

[baykah]

Ok, I'm not the only one so ...

If anyone have this problem, don't hesitate to post here

Honnestly, the hacker A60 are from the samefactory but, hacker did not use the Backmout style, maybe the standart mount with the 3rd bearing in the motor mount help ..

[blucor basher]

+1 the grease ring is a bad sign. I don't think there's ever "excess oil" in a little bearing like this. I don't use the Hyp motors now, so I'm not up their latest developments, but the grease ring is a very familiar from back when.

[drstillpatient]

+1 the grease ring is a bad sign. I don't think there's ever "excess oil" in a little bearing like this. I don't use the Hyp motors now, so I'm not up their latest developments, but the grease ring is a very familiar from back when.

I dunno what causes it...I've had the grease ring form with all my Hyperion motors, the oldest one being a 2 year old Z4025 that still runs perfectly.