XFC Nightfly Complete Embarrasment

[MCART]

Thought I would wait to see what others had to say first but no one has yet so I guess I will.

I was really looking forward to the nightfly event, especially with the cool videos and list of participants on the XFC website. Apparently the XFC and AMA forgot to notify the participants on that list to show up.

Where do I start. First while waiting for it to get dark and the place packed with kids, they decided to play music on the PA system with sexually explicit lyrics. What could the AMA be thinking? Even the adults looked uncomfortable as the words pump that ass and what you gonna do with those breasts up in that shirt wrang out through the speakers.

Then finally when the flying started, it consisted of a total of 4 flights, one at a time. Thats right 4. Two helicopters and two airplanes. The airplanes went first and they had what looked like the glow sticks that were passed out to the kids taped to the planes they were so dim. One of the planes seemed to be a foamy or small electric, the other was maybe a 50 cc gasser.

Finally the first helicopter flew and it had some nice bright lights and it was the only flight that was to be combined with the fireworks / pyrotechnics that the web site hyped up so much. The helicopter was supposed to fly through a big ring of sparklers but its blades hit them as it passed through and it wrecked. The rest of the fireworks went off with nothing flying, then a pause while some didnt even go off, and then more went off until they stopped, still nothing flying because the helicopter had already wrecked. That was it for the pyrotechnics.

Then the second helicopter flew and it had great lights, even on the main and tail rotor blades. Finally, one great lighted sucessful flight that really showed what night flying is all about.

Anyone who went to Joe Nall knows how great night flying can be. There were 5, 10, and maybe even 15 or more planes and helicopters flying all at the same time with great lights.

The XFC site listed 7 participants for the night fly including Yuri Higuchi who put on a spectacular show at Joe Nall, maybe even some of what the video on the site showed. Somehow this list of participants was just fabricated to hype the event.

Hope others that were there will give some thoughts on this too. The AMA should formally apoligize to all the parents there with kids for their choice in music. Maybe next year (as they anounced at the conclusion of the night fly there would be a $1000 first place award) some well lit planes will show up but I might think twice before making the 5 hour round trip to see.

Mike :(

[Dr. Sandy Frank]

The AMA did not produce nor direct this event..

located at the AMA/IAC yes...

partially sponsored ( read that FUNDED ) by the AMA.. Yes,

but neither produced nor directed..

[ILv2Xlr8]

I totally agree with your assessment. I brought several people up for the night fly and we were all really disappointed. Only 4 participants, and only one of the helicopters was truly setup for the night fly. The other helicopter did not have illuminated blades which made it hard to watch from any distance. The airplanes, a foamy and a reactor, only had glow sticks taped to them. Definitely a big disappointment compared to last year. There was a better night fly showing at E-fest indoors. Not sure why there were no participants in the night fly, but perhaps it should be a requirement to have a night fly aircraft if you want to compete at XFC. At least the fireworks show after the flying was good; although the timing was off during the start.

The competition during the day was great tho. Some new moves in the helicopter ranks that I haven't seen in competition before. There was a mishap with a helicopter crash that injured the father of one the competitors sitting in the front row, but hopefully he is ok. A great decrease in the amount of vendors present, but understandable with the current state of the economy. The addition of the band did help the time pass between the end of competition and night fall.

[WreckRman2]

Mike,

I could not agree with you more! I summed it up in one word... PATHETIC!

It was hyped up so much... AND NOTHING. They even ran TV ads local to Indianapolis hyping it up too. Last years show was sooo much better.

[DonJuan]

As an older guy and a father of 3 I can say "XFC we Love you, we're just very very disappointed in you right now".
The Hype was huge the show was NOT. If something happened like some of the guys couldn't show for some reason you might want to tell us that. Or if for some reason you suddenly weren't allowed to put pyro on the planes you might want to tell us that as well. And BTW, where was Russian Thunder? Maybe I just missed it but I was there half of Saturday and all of Sunday and nothing was said about the missing Yak. Just tell us what happened. We'll understand. OK, I'll take the last one back. I could have just asked someone to get an answer.

[batusaix]

Nice read. :)

[Dr. Sandy Frank]

lets blame everyone in sight.............

Not the AMA nor the XFC promoted the YAK...

being there...

BUT

lets blame everyone in sight.............!!!

the YAK was on its way flying from the West Coast

and lost 2 Cylinders...


YES Jim B.was there.

everywhere on his golf cart...

I even saw him flying models at site 4 with M.Ramsey and the Muncie Skyhawks.


and YES I did ask Jim where I could see it....

he said it was on the left coast with its engine being removed...


I did ask...!!

but lets all RANT w/o asking !!! it is far more FUN !!!

BTW the Muncie Skychiefs and M.Ramsey had about 50+

beginners on the buddy box during the XFC !!!

Thanks to Futaba who provided the trainers and other stuff...

[GMRO]

BLAME?

I wouldn't say blame. Poor planning is all it was. Yes things happen, blown cylinders etc, everyday that can keep the hyped schedule from going on as advertised. That little phrase that relieves liability - "scheduled to appear" - just doesn’t get it when you drive miles to an event and you feel short changed IF the event does not live up to the hype.

BUT not having a "filler" for any appearance or event that didn't go as hyped? No Plan B - yes poor planning.

Was this a commercial event? Was a spectator fee collected per car or person at the entrance gate? Then there are responsibilities by the organizers to the attendees, paying attendees, to have a good show and a backup plan. Especially if the event was advertised to provide such. IF NO fee - well then you get what you get.

End result is it’s a shame for anyone who drove all that way, based on the hype of the event, and didn't have the fun they had hoped.

I sure hope the injury to the gentleman in the front row is minor. We don’t need this type of publicity for certain.

___________
Best Regards,

Ron Osinski
aka - GMRO

[in2glow1229]

I also agree, the night fly was the most disappointing part about the XFC, especially compared to last year's NF.

I think that song might have been on the radio, so they couldn't have just changed it like a CD, but I don't know why they didn't just turn it off! (all the other music was good though)

From what I heard, Bobby Watts was supposed to light the heli on fire after flying around for a bit, that would have made it a lot better.

But everything else was AWESOME (in my opinion) this is definitely NOT going to keep me from going next year!

[Skaluf]

Thought I would wait to see what others had to say first but no one has yet so I guess I will.

I was really looking forward to the nightfly event, especially with the cool videos and list of participants on the XFC website. Apparently the XFC and AMA forgot to notify the participants on that list to show up.

Where do I start. First while waiting for it to get dark and the place packed with kids, they decided to play music on the PA system with sexually explicit lyrics. What could the AMA be thinking? Even the adults looked uncomfortable as the words pump that ass and what you gonna do with those breasts up in that shirt wrang out through the speakers.

Then finally when the flying started, it consisted of a total of 4 flights, one at a time. Thats right 4. Two helicopters and two airplanes. The airplanes went first and they had what looked like the glow sticks that were passed out to the kids taped to the planes they were so dim. One of the planes seemed to be a foamy or small electric, the other was maybe a 50 cc gasser.

Finally the first helicopter flew and it had some nice bright lights and it was the only flight that was to be combined with the fireworks / pyrotechnics that the web site hyped up so much. The helicopter was supposed to fly through a big ring of sparklers but its blades hit them as it passed through and it wrecked. The rest of the fireworks went off with nothing flying, then a pause while some didnt even go off, and then more went off until they stopped, still nothing flying because the helicopter had already wrecked. That was it for the pyrotechnics.

Then the second helicopter flew and it had great lights, even on the main and tail rotor blades. Finally, one great lighted sucessful flight that really showed what night flying is all about.

Anyone who went to Joe Nall knows how great night flying can be. There were 5, 10, and maybe even 15 or more planes and helicopters flying all at the same time with great lights.

The XFC site listed 7 participants for the night fly including Yuri Higuchi who put on a spectacular show at Joe Nall, maybe even some of what the video on the site showed. Somehow this list of participants was just fabricated to hype the event.

Hope others that were there will give some thoughts on this too. The AMA should formally apoligize to all the parents there with kids for their choice in music. Maybe next year (as they anounced at the conclusion of the night fly there would be a $1000 first place award) some well lit planes will show up but I might think twice before making the 5 hour round trip to see.

Mike :(

All- if there was a piece of music played (non-flying) that was inappropriate, I'll take responsibility for it. I can assure you that was not my intention however. I don't listen to this type of thing and would never intentionally play it for the public.

I did generate a great deal of music for the XFC (8 hours of it) to fill dead time. I tried to get a large variety and thought I had screened everything in advance. It's hard when you don't listen to a certain genre to know all of the lyrics.

Again, I do apologize and if someone can let me know what song it was I'll be sure to delete it from the record case.

Steve

[rgoble]

This was the first night fly I've made it to and I enjoyed it. I wish there would of been a few more pilots but things happen. I could see how you were disappointed if you only watched the night fly.

My guess is that the fire works for Bobby Watts flight were on some sort of timer, so once they started it they had to let it finish even after he crashed. I somehow doubt they would let somebody run around on the other side of the runway with a lighter while he was flying :)

I've got a few pictures for anybody who missed it. Just keep in mind its almost impossible to take a non blurry picture in the dark with no flash and no tripod of a moving rc model. It does make for some neat effects though.

Robert

[rgoble]

All- if there was a piece of music played (non-flying) that was inappropriate, I'll take responsibility for it. I can assure you that was not my intention however. I don't listen to this type of thing and would never intentionally play it for the public.

I did generate a great deal of music for the XFC (8 hours of it) to fill dead time. I tried to get a large variety and thought I had screened everything in advance. It's hard when you don't listen to a certain genre to know all of the lyrics.

Again, I do apologize and if someone can let me know what song it was I'll be sure to delete it from the record case.

Steve

I do remember hearing it, my guess was it was the Black Eyed Peas - My Hump. All the rest of the music I heard on Saturday was fine.

[jbourke]

It's important that attendees feel safe presenting their take on their experience. If we use that information in a positive way it will make the event better. There is no reason for a defensive reaction from anyone involved.

I can see that we didn't explain Russian Thunder's status to the crowd well enough. Some of that is because I was still reacting to the change in events.

As for the nightflying, that is simply out of the XFC's control. People show up to attend according to their own interest. Some years there will be a lot of attendees. Some years there will be a few. That's competitions for you.

On the music, it is good to know that there is some sensitivity out there, but attendees need to expect that contemporary songs like "My Hump" will be played. The XFC is not a concerto - it is a gathering of mostly young competitors who fly routines set to the music they like. This means edgy flying and edgy music. It's important for individuals to know this in advance so they can make a fully-informed decision to attend.

Jim

[MCART]

It's important that attendees feel safe presenting their take on their experience. If we use that information in a positive way it will make the event better. There is no reason for a defensive reaction from anyone involved.

I can see that we didn't explain Russian Thunder's status to the crowd well enough. Some of that is because I was still reacting to the change in events.

As for the nightflying, that is simply out of the XFC's control. People show up to attend according to their own interest. Some years there will be a lot of attendees. Some years there will be a few. That's competitions for you.

On the music, it is good to know that there is some sensitivity out there, but attendees need to expect that contemporary songs like "My Hump" will be played. The XFC is not a concerto - it is a gathering of mostly young competitors who fly routines set to the music they like. This means edgy flying and edgy music. It's important for individuals to know this in advance so they can make a fully-informed decision to attend.

Jim
Sorry Jim but I couldn't disagree more. If the participants for the night flying event are out of XFC's control then they should not post the list of the nightfly participants on their website. They should say "it would great if the people on this list were the particpants but we dont know and were just making this list up". Here is the list I am talking about:
http://www.futaba-rc.com/xfc-rc/night-fly.html

Secondly, what does edgy music have to do with edgy flying? Everything that I heard all day Saturday was appropriate except for that one song. (Alright, maybe the Buffet song lets get drunk and screw.) Fireworks attracts families with young children. The AMA wants to attract young people into their organization. That song was not acceptable around young children. If the XFC site warned parents that "edgy" music is to be expected, then the parents can make an informed decision to leave their kids at home. Does the XFC want to be considered for adults only?

My problem wasn't so much about the music though, it was that the video and lists of participants on the XFC website provided great expectations and what we saw totally sucked. Here is the video from the XFC website:
http://video1.hobbico.com/gallery/xfc/2008-night-flying.mpg

[jbourke]

They should say "it would great if the people on this list were the particpants but we dont know and were just making this list up".


(snip)...what we saw totally sucked.

It seems like you feel you were mislead, and that is the crux of the problem for you. I agree it is unfortunate that some of the competitors didn't make it, but I feel you are placing blame where it doesn't belong. The XFC organizers wanted those competitors to appear just as badly as you did.

Jim

[MCART]

Here is the text from the XFC website:

In addition to an amazing Fireworks show at the end of the evening, imagine having the likes of Terry Hahn, Yuri Higuchi, Marcus Kim, Daniel Katzav, Jerry Smith and others dazzling you with a brilliant light and flying demo. But wait... there's more! Imagine the same show with pyrotechnics mounted on the planes and helis!!! That's right, PYROTECHNICS! With the assistance of the AMA Executive Council, the XFC will be setting new standards for night flying, while introducing a new element into the XFC. The AMA has had a long standing regulation that does not allow pyro equipment to be allowed on the aircraft. With new stringent regulations in place, this can now be achieved!

Was there a single airplane or helicopter with pyrotechnics mounted on the aircraft? No. Was there even a single airplane with lights mounted on it other than glow sticks? No.

This isn't just misleading. You cant make these claims just hoping that someone would show up with pyrotechnics mounted to the planes. This was hyping something that would take a while to setup and work out. Something that was happening for the first time ever.

[Skaluf]

Perhaps a few explanations (as I understand them) will help here.

First I've already apologized for a choice for one particular song that I evidently played. This had nothing to do with the competition, it was simply filler music. I picked the majority of the filler music from the ATF top 100 listing in an attempt to bring music that would apeal to the attedees (I'm old). This song has already been deleted from the record case, and I'll not make the same mistake twice.

I can understand why some may have been disappointed at the night fly. However, please understand the night fly and the team competition are the only part of the event that the XFC does not invite and get confirmations from the participants that they are attending. Both are open events that anyone showing up can fly in after approval from the XFC committee. A couple of "big names" had to withdraw at the last minute and this left a pretty big hole in that part of the event. It's unfortunate but it happens all of the time. I applaud the guys that answered the committees call and stepped up to fly (at the very last second) in the night fly.

It's important to remember that this is a model airplane competition, not a professional show produced for the sole entertainment of the crowd. Perhaps the XFC has risen to the level that it seems like it is an entertainment event (I know I'm very entertained by the entire event).

My hope is that you had a great time, despite a night fly that did not live up to expectations. I know I did eventhough I spent four days in a trailer playing music and could only see aircraft if they were below 10'!

If I know those involved in the organization of XFC, they are already figuring out how to avoid a similar issue for next year; and make the event better than ever.

Steve

[XPO]

I was a vendor there at the XFC. But just as well, I have been a modeler many times longer than an entrepreneur.

Although very tired after what was a work day for me, I stuck around till the very last firework, AND I am glad I did.

I approach this whole thing with humility and will never take away credit when credit is clearly due. The bottom line is that the folks there put out there best foot forward and the pilots present at the competition are idolized by me no matter who they are. After all, I can only achieve their skills in my wildest dreams...

The bottom line, I drove over nine hours to get there, had my fill as a vendor and as a spectator...and in the end saw amazing and talented folks taking our hobby to the next step and making our hobby what it is today.

I don't buy the next great aircraft because I want to own one, but rather because I want to be one tenth as good as those guys I saw there...

I have only great things to say and applaud the folks who put it all on for us. XFC - you can count on me coming next year. The weather was great, the food was great, the weekend was great and the people I met there and shook hands with were all awesome.

[Bohica35]

First I'll introduce myself as the latest resident newb. So hello to all of you that surely know more about this stuff than I.


After reading this thread, I felt compelled to register and share my experiences at the XFC, from the eyes of a newcomer to the sport/hobby/whatever.


It's safe to say that I am an "outsider", and I'm not part of the RC aero clique. So I find it rather ironic that I am here to defend the event from it's own enthusiasts. I'm not here to contradict what anyone else has said. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I would just like to share MY opinions of the event.

I was not present Friday, so I cannot comment on that day. I arrived around noon on Saturday and stayed till close. I returned Sunday again around noon and stayed to the end.

Competition

I found the competition to be PHENOMINAL. I personally felt privileged that I was able to see the best pilots from all over the globe. I didn't count the countries, but I heard mention of pilots from Germany, Israel, Mexico, Puerto Rico, UK......I'm sure there are more that I forgot. For someone like myself that just tries not to crash......it was amazing to see guys performing maneauvers that seem to defy physics. I have been to a couple of fun flies and have seen some great pilots. Correct me if I'm wrong (my experience in the hobby is limited), but I found the lowest placing pilots to be leagues better than anyone I see locally. So it was a great opportunity. I definitely got some ideas of things I would like to learn, and will definitely be investing in a simulator. (I don't know anyone that could AFFORD to practice these things in real life)

The airplanes were great. It's cool to see such large models performing with such agility. I kept trying to imagine the G forces exerted on these things. It's a wonder they don't self destruct. (by the way I learned that they are not referred to as "airplanes", as I call them, but "fixed wing". So now I feel cool knowing the lingo)

I can't remember the names of all of the pilots, but Jason Knoll really stuck out to me. The patterns he flew seemed very sharp and almost perfectly geometric.

However, the helicopters blew my mind. These guys seemed to be pushing it to the very limit. The crashes are testament to how far they are pushing it.

I was also shocked at the young age of some of the pilots. Apparently the hours and hours of video games are paying off for these kids. Jaimie Roberts (I think 15 years old) was insane. And as the competition progressed you could really see the other pilots stepping up their game to compete with him.

Again, I don't remember all of the names, but Jaimie Roberts, "high voltage" Watts, the guy with the streamer thing (that was sick), and Justin Chi (sp?) all stuck out. That Justin Chi kid (6 years old!) was amazing. I can't imagine having that kind of persistance at that age. There were other guys that I made sure to watch after I saw their first flight, but regrettably I forget their names.


Perhaps I have strayed from the OP......

Music

This is probably the aspect that most prompted me to post.... I thought it was a good idea to have a live band. The "Boat Drunks" were good, and I thought the singer sounded a lot like Jimmy Buffet. I thought the live music broke up the monotony of watching flights for 9 hours straight. Good idea.

As for the now infamous song that has been mentioned several times in this thread.....Black Eyed Peas - My Humps.....that song is played on the radio. I had my young daughter with me, and was never uncomfortable. I don't know that she really listened to the words of any of the music. She danced and had fun all the same. As for the lyrics.....are they something I would want to read to my grandma? No. Were they innapropriate? Not any more inappropriate than any other song on the radio. I don't know if any of you take your kids to the pool, but listen to the music they play there. It's all about booty shaking. It's not my kind of music, but I think you would have to be pretty uptight to make a thread complaining about mention of the word "ass" or "breasts". Even so, if someone finds two little words inappropriate out of hours and hours of music.....that's a win. Seriously, tune your radio into a pop radio station for 9 hours straight. You might be surprised to find out that the kids aren't listening to Frank Sinatra all day. ;)

Night Fly

Was the night fly over-billed? Perhaps. Was it entertaining? Absolutely. There were props, and an overabundance of pyrotechnics. Granted the helicopter flying with the pyro did crash, so the pyro went on after the crash. I don't fault the pilot for that. He was REALLY hanging it out, and when you do that, sometimes you crash. Things happen. (I enjoy crashes, so it was kind of a guilty pleasure for me anyway) I didn't find the lux level of the lights to be distracting at all. I know someone mentioned that they were dim....or whatever, but I had no problem seeing them.

Perhaps it is my inexperience showing, but I found it to be entertaining. And even if it someone considered it to be lacking, I thought of the night fly as kind of a novelty anyway. The main competition, was the clear draw. Complaining about having 4 night fly pilots instead of 7 is similar to complaining that Mick Jagger lip sync'd during the halftime at the super bowl. Only in this case, the super bowl lasted for three days straight instead of 1 hour.

Also, as noted earlier in this thread, the XFC seems to have already taken action to improve next year's nightfly by offering a $1,000 purse to the winner. I don't know what it takes to get into this competition, but I'm willing to detonate my airplane (sorry, fixed wing) in a fiery explosion if it will earn me $1k. :cool: But something tells me that with that kind of money on the line, it might take more than that to win next year.

Fireworks

The fireworks display was very professional and very impressive. To be frank, I expected a lot of "off the shelf" type fireworks. That wasn't the case. These were BIG, BIG fireworks that rival most 4th of July displays. I think it was about 30 minutes long and given that we were sitting so close, the display was much better than most July 4th displays.

I know my wife, daughter, and I enjoyed them. Also, they gave out tons of freebie glow necklace thingies.

Value

After recently spending over $300 on two tickets to a Cirque du Soleil show, the entertainment value was astonishing to me. In a time when it costs me over $30 to take my wife and daughter to a stinking movie (not including refreshments) I think we got our money's worth. I don't know how the XFC can put on this caliber of a show for $7. For the cost of a Chipotle burrito, you can watch a whole day of elite, world class aerobatics, a live concert, a night fly, and a professional fireworks display. Hell, I regularly spend $5 on those glow necklaces for my daughter at various events. She got 4 of them for free. I saw other kids that were in 7th heaven with 10 or more of them. So we made our money back on glow necklaces alone! :D



As a bonus, I thought it was very cool to be able to walk through the "pits" or whatever they're called and look at the pro's setups. The pilots were all very friendly and were willing to talk. The general mood amongst pilots and fans alike was very fun-loving and upbeat. I walked away from the event with an overwhelmingly positive feeling about the hobby. I immediately started looking for the next event to go to, and I will DEFINITELY be back at XFC next year, and will probably take some friends along with me to introduce them to the hobby.


I respect the TS's opinion, but I think words like "complete embarassment" are a little overdramatic, and nitpicky. Not to mention counterproductive. I think it could have been worded a little more constructively.

I don't know how many people were at the event, but I would guess it was in the thousands. I saw probably 20 RVs, and probably as many tent campers. I think there were 40 international pilots total, not including the exhibition pilots, several vendors, giveaways, silent auctions........it just seems to me that a WHOLE lot of effort and planning went into a great event that seems to gain positive exposure for the hobby. This kind of nitpicking in such a public way seems like it could undue a lot of progress.

Luckily, from the vibe I got from the event, and the people I talked to, these opinions are in the vast minority. I know I can't wait until next year.


Kudos to the XFC!



As the new guy, I don't mean to offend anyone. Just my $.02

[Dr. Sandy Frank]

agreed !!!!

with the above 2...

[MCART]

Bohica35,
Welcome to RC Groups. Great thing about America is everyone is entitled to their own opinions!
Mike

[Acefredbaron]

I've been going to the XFC ever since it was held in Troy Ohio but this will be my last XFC. The problem wasn't the music alone. The problem was the timing. You just finished talking about the future of the hobby being our youth and children just comming up in the sport. You handed out kids toys and light rings so that every kid there was front and center and then you played music that was filled with sexually unacceptable lyrics for children. I saw more than a few people pick their kids up and leave before the fireworks even began. Is this really the image the AMA wants to promote to the public? If that is what you want to promote to our children next time hand out little pole dancer dolls and BK childrens booty meals so we'll know what to expect. I was also really impressed with the Futaba F.U. tee shirts. "Futaba put the F.U. in fun"? I think Futaba put the F.U. to the AMA and it's public relations. It's not like we don't have enough problems with public relations and the noise connected with the hobby without adding this kind of crap. Flying model aircraft was one of the last safe venues for our children to participate in and now even that has gone to dogs. I don't even want to get started on how the AMA and Futaba treated the JR and Horizon half of the hobby by not allowing them to market and promote their products. Didn't anyone wonder why there were no flags or booths or banners for JR? Yes I know, they could have come if they wanted to as long as they didn't fly any banners or flags with the scarlet letters on them. I saw that other RC products and manufacturers were allowed to pomote their products. In America we thrive on competitiion. Americans are not afraid to compete with fair rules applied to ALL the competition, not just the ones favored by those running the event! If the event was held at a private Futaba field I could understand it but it was held at the AMA world headquarters paid for by OUR AMA dues. My buddies and I drove many hours to see the state of the art night flying and could not have been more dissappointed. Next time the AMA ballot comes in the mail, I'm going to vote the bums out!!!

[Skaluf]

I've been going to the XFC ever since it was held in Troy Ohio but this will be my last XFC. The problem wasn't the music alone. The problem was the timing. You just finished talking about the future of the hobby being our youth and children just comming up in the sport. You handed out kids toys and light rings so that every kid there was front and center and then you played music that was filled with sexually unacceptable lyrics for children. I saw more than a few people pick their kids up and leave before the fireworks even began. Is this really the image the AMA wants to promote to the public? If that is what you want to promote to our children next time hand out little pole dancer dolls and BK childrens booty meals so we'll know what to expect. I was also really impressed with the Futaba F.U. tee shirts. "Futaba put the F.U. in fun"? I think Futaba put the F.U. to the AMA and it's public relations. It's not like we don't have enough problems with public relations and the noise connected with the hobby without adding this kind of crap. Flying model aircraft was one of the last safe venues for our children to participate in and now even that has gone to dogs. I don't even want to get started on how the AMA and Futaba treated the JR and Horizon half of the hobby by not allowing them to market and promote their products. Didn't anyone wonder why there were no flags or booths or banners for JR? Yes I know, they could have come if they wanted to as long as they didn't fly any banners or flags with the scarlet letters on them. I saw that other RC products and manufacturers were allowed to pomote their products. In America we thrive on competitiion. Americans are not afraid to compete with fair rules applied to ALL the competition, not just the ones favored by those running the event! If the event was held at a private Futaba field I could understand it but it was held at the AMA world headquarters paid for by OUR AMA dues. My buddies and I drove many hours to see the state of the art night flying and could not have been more dissappointed. Next time the AMA ballot comes in the mail, I'm going to vote the bums out!!!

The FU shirts had absolutely nothing to do with Futaba. They belonged to a team there.

Horizon Hobby most certainly was invited and most certainly could have flown their flags and banners as they have in the past. I suspect like most of us they too are feeling budget crunches.

[barracudahockey]

The GTO or Go Team Orange was a group of pilots and their families, they had/have nothing to do with Futaba.

As for the music, I wouldn't have known either. I've gotten crap at hockey games for the same thing. I try to find the music the kids are listening to, if I had to preview every word of those songs before hand I would have to drill a hole in my skull.

[jbourke]

I didn't hear or see anything at the XFC that I wouldn't encounter at a typical shopping mall, gas station, state fair, or any other public venue.

That might not make the scene acceptable to every parent, of course.

Jim

[BladeMan]

For what it's worth the wife and I had a great time. The price was affordable to get in, and the BBQ for $8 -great deal. The only thing I would change would be to have lights in the port-a-pot's. I had to go in with her and hold a flashlight... a new bonding experience for us...

Why can't the AMA have regular bathrooms? Probably $$$$

I would love to see next year an open fly (for all AMA members) in the dead time while waiting for it to get dark (just to have something in the air) I have a order in for some LED lights for my foam planes and yes, I have a 2.4 radio

My 2.5 cents - I will be there next year, Thanks for a good show!!! The kids loved the free glow sticks. And one more thing - How about some country music? Never any bad words.

[xfc3dcd]

I firmly believe and encourage everyone to express their constructive opinions about our event. We have solicited input from day one and it has been vital to evolving the XFC to its present form. I must admit I do get discouraged when the comments are false, harsh and mean spirited however. I don't know that all people realize that this is a volunteer effort and not a profit motivated one. The sole mission of the XFC has always been to promote and grow the sport of model aviation.

Obviously the world is made up of people with a wide range of sensibilities. Case in point, we had persons who traveled as far away as Alaska specifically to attend the XFC and enjoyed themselves. We have others who were local that felt misled and disappointed. What a surprise!

We won't always get it exactly right but we will always attempt to and we are fully capable of learning from our mistakes. For those who think we don't care about family values please read this verbatim quote from the XFC rulebook:

"Music

Obscene, vulgar or objectionable lyrics are not permitted and use of such will result in a zero score for the flight. Since the audience includes families and children, lyrics should be "PG" rated. Contact the Contest Director if unsure."

The XFC Committee implemented this rule unsolicited many years back. As Steve mentioned the "R" rated song played before the night fly was an honest mistake. I do find it somewhat amusing that those who object the loudest about issues of morals/values always assume they are intentional and are often the ones who are not capable of exercising the golden value called forgive and forget.

It is not XFC policy to threaten pilots with bodily harm should they cancel Night Fly attendance at the last minute due to crashes, loss of jobs, illness, family issues, etc. (all of which occurred by the way).

Regarding misinformation, I would like to correct some.

1. JR was asked to attend the event and provide banners, as in previous years, but declined for financial reasons. They were an event sponsor once again and to say their involvement is important and appreciated is a huge understatement.

2. Some people left after the night fly because they did not hear the announcement or otherwise knew that the regular fireworks were about to start immediately afterward.

3. The AMA has always emphasized the need for family values for the XFC and we agree. The event happens in real time and is supervised by four individuals. It gets larger every year and so can be a challenge to keep perfectly on track. Each year we have a long laundry list of corrections for the following year.

Overall we feel this was the best XFC to date. Sure the night fly with pyro stumbled out of the gate but just wait til next year!

Wendell Adkins
XFC Contest Director

[Acefredbaron]

I didn't hear or see anything at the XFC that I wouldn't encounter at a typical shopping mall, gas station, state fair, or any other public venue.

That might not make the scene acceptable to every parent, of course.

Jim

Your right Jim. I just didn't expect to hear it over the loud speaker at a AMA event after a pitch about the future of the sport being our children. I don't think the language standard for the AMA should be the same as the standard for unsupervised teens at a mall and I'm not suggesting that it is. As for the JR, Horizon account, it happened in the past and that is why they are not there anymore. I stand by my account. Sorry if I offended anyone by being offended.
Thank God we can agree to disagree.

[xfc3dcd]

Your right Jim. I just didn't expect to hear it over the loud speaker at a AMA event after a pitch about the future of the sport being our children. I don't think the language standard for the AMA should be the same as the standard for unsupervised teens at a mall and I'm not suggesting that it is. As for the JR, Horizon account, it happened in the past and that is why they are not there anymore. I stand by my account. Sorry if I offended anyone by being offended.
Thank God we can agree to disagree.

So are you speaking on behalf of JR/Horizon?

[Acefredbaron]

So are you speaking on behalf of JR/Horizon?

No, I am not connected with JR or Horizon in any way whatsoever. Just my opinion. Sorry if I have ruffeled any feathers. Best regards.

[bjpaul]

I didn't hear or see anything at the XFC that I wouldn't encounter at a typical shopping mall, gas station, state fair, or any other public venue.

That might not make the scene acceptable to every parent, of course.

Jim

So Jim, I could post the lyrics to the song on RC-Groups without violating the "family friendly" policy ?

Interesting in that the same speech you can hear at a typical shopping mall, gas station, state fair, or any other public venue will get you awarning point here, OR has the policy changed? :rolleyes:

[xfc3dcd]

No ruffled feathers whatsoever. I just feel obligated to not permit dissemination of incorrect information regarding the XFC. Since we have clarified that you are not representing anyone but yourself I will explain why your comment is incorrect.

The XFC, not unlike many other sporting events, uses a tiered sponsorship program. With increasing levels of contribution comes increasing levels of exposure. Futaba is the largest contributor and title sponsor and so has the most visibility. Just like Nextel in Nascar. Below Futaba are our anchor, platinum, gold, silver and bronze level sponsors. Every vendors visibility at the event is in direct proportion to their individual level of contribution.

Make sense?

Wendell

[MCART]

This was the first time I have ever started a thread and I did it for my own personal reasons. Everyone is free to attend the XFC for whatever interests them the most. Personally, I attended because I was extremely interested in the night fly event. After attending the Joe Nall and watching all the night flying activities, I bought lights and outfitted my aircraft with them because this was something new for me and I found it very interesting.

Please note that I did not and have not said a single negative comment regarding the competition, the great barbecue meal, the access to the pilots, the vendors, the facility, the boat drunks, the fireworks, the weather..........

And while I did mention that I thought that one and only one particular song was inappropriate, I said "My problem wasn't so much about the music though". And I most certainly was not "pretty uptight to make a thread complaining about mention of the word "ass" or "breasts". I made the thread complaining about the night fly event.

I attended XFC for the night fly event. Not for the competition, food, music, fireworks etc. It may not have been the primary mission of the event but I did so based on the great expectations that the web site set forth. So for my personal reason for attending, it was a complete disappointment.

I understand that some of the participants did not make it and that was out of the XFC's control. How did I come to know this? By starting this thread and allowing those involved with its organization to make a statement. To my knowledge, no announcement was made at the XFC during the course of the day to this affect.

But that still leaves me with one final question for the organizers. If whomever the participant was that failed to show up would have showed up, what type of pyrotechnics mounted to the aircraft would we have seen? Roman candles mounted to wing tips, giant sparklers mounted to the landing gear, maybe remotely fired pop bottle rockets? I certainly hope that all that hype wasn't pure speculation and nobody has volunteered any information yet as what was actually planned. Please tell us all that hype was not just fabricated.

[MCART]

Regarding misinformation, I would like to correct some.

1. JR was asked to attend the event and provide banners, as in previous years, but declined for financial reasons. They were an event sponsor once again and to say their involvement is important and appreciated is a huge understatement.
Wendell Adkins
XFC Contest Director
Just out of curiosity, do you mean they were a sponsor this year? Because I don't see any mention of them on your website list of sponsors.
http://www.futaba-rc.com/xfc-rc/sponsors.html

[xfc3dcd]

Regarding next years Night Fly, all I can say with absolute certainty is that several of the top competitors told me on their way out that they would be back next year prepared to impress. I am confident the $1000 purse will help also.

There were a few sponsors that did not commit to support the event until quite late, some as late as the week of the event. As I mentioned in the pilots meeting, we are eternally grateful to all our sponsors, particularly considering current economic conditions.

Wendell

[Shpook]

Just thought I'd mention that this thread has done nothing but talk UP XFC, and really make me wanna go. Whether you enjoyed it all or not, they have succeeded in a very important task: they've provoked you. :D Maybe one day I can make the trip to attend.

[barracudahockey]

I think anyone would be satisfied with a trip to any of the big events at Muncie. Pick one that intrests you like XFC, IRCHA, the Nats or whatever, stop by and meet your reps at the AMA, spend an hour or two at the museaum, and hang out with the top pilots in your favorite catagory. I can promise its worth the trip.

[jdracing3]

Does anyone have any info on Mr. Chi? My wife and I were sitting next to him when the heli part hit him and I gave him my shirt to cover his injury.

I called the AMA Monday and was directed to a voice mail with no return phone call. I hope his injuries are not serious.

John

[Jim T. Graham]

I saw him the next day at the award ceremony.

[jdracing3]

I saw him the next day at the award ceremony.


Great!

...Thank you! :)

[jdracing3]

I did receive a call this morning from the AMA...Thanks guys.

[jbourke]

So Jim, I could post the lyrics to the song on RC-Groups without violating the "family friendly" policy ?


RCG works with the community to develop standards, just as the XFC organizers work with the attendees. The process involves give and take and is effected through years of effort and feedback.

The standards do not need to be the same for both organizations, and it should be expected that mistakes will be made.

At RCGroups we have the opportunity to hide information that is inappropriate, but it is still available for a brief period before we are able. The XFC has no such option.

My point in this thread is simply that when you choose to use the internet, or go to a public venue, you will occasionally be confronted with things that offend your sensibilities. If one cannot allow organizers the occasional mistake, then reducing one's exposure can be accomplished by avoiding the risk entirely.

I don't see anything in this thread, or at the event itself, that reflects any sort of hostile intent by anyone involved, and I seek only to make sure we are listening. What I expect to come out of it is better understanding on both sides. For the organizers of the XFC, a better understanding of what some attendees felt was inappropriate. For those attendees, a better understanding of what the organizers intended and are realistically capable of promising.

Jim

[Tipover]

Just for the record, there -WAS- a JR banner up on the inside fence in front of the bleachers. This was directly to the right of the pavilion as viewed from inside the fence area. Probably not very visible, but it was there. Wish I had a picture to prove it.

As for the night fly... I though the foamy with the glow sticks was a bad joke at first, but I quickly got over it. I personally was a little concerned about how safe it would have been launching fireworks from 35-40% aircraft flying in the dark with all the kids and adults in attendance. I also wondered if that same thought might have had some bearing on the lack of participation by pilots at the last minute. It sounds like a lot of fun, but there is still something uncomfortable about that situation with the general public in attendance.

Three of us drove 600 miles in the RV for 3 enjoyable days. Overall a great time.

Kevin

[Tipover]

Here you can see one corner of the JR banner :)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2584233

Kevin

[bigdarylg]

i want to mention that the banner on the right side of the flightline had all sponsors and their level of sponsorship,Horizon was definately on it.

[MCART]

I wasn't hoping for anything dangerous. I was hoping for something like this real airplane did at a show I attended put on by Hartzell Propeller.

[bjpaul]

Does anyone have any info on Mr. Chi? My wife and I were sitting next to him when the heli part hit him and I gave him my shirt to cover his injury.

I called the AMA Monday and was directed to a voice mail with no return phone call. I hope his injuries are not serious.

John

Who was flying the heli? I noticed the name Mr. Chi, and I remember that a 4 year old Justin Chi hit a spectator last year at XFC, any connection?

[AndrewsJr]

Who was flying the heli? I noticed the name Mr. Chi, and I remember that a 4 year old Justin Chi hit a spectator last year at XFC, any connection?

My recollection was the the Justin Chi incident happened at NEAT '07 not XFC.

Jon.

[*MoNSteR*]

On the music, it is good to know that there is some sensitivity out there, but attendees need to expect that contemporary songs like "My Hump" will be played. The XFC is not a concerto - it is a gathering of mostly young competitors who fly routines set to the music they like. This means edgy flying and edgy music. It's important for individuals to know this in advance so they can make a fully-informed decision to attend.

Jim


Actually, Jim, attendees need to know that they can safely bring their children to special *PUBLIC* events without exposing them to this sort of thing.

Its one thing for the youngsters who compete who havent developed a sense of respect yet to play these tunes for their flight, but for a mature adult such as yourself to consider it OK for the other mature adults who are the ones presenting and running the event to loudly broadcast....

What u gon’ do with all that ass?
All that ass inside them jeans?
I’m a make, make, make, make you scream
Make u scream, make you scream.

...then you arent doing your job in the position you are in, and neither are they, and in no way should anybody expect this and stay home as you suggested.

Way to promote the hobby Bourke, tell everyone to stay home if they dont like the way things are ran. NOT very professional.

Not only was it inappropriate for the kids, it offended a lot of adults as well who did not have kids with them, including myself, and everyone with me. We all looked at each other and said "WTH are they thinking" . They obviously were not.

I personally feel 99% of all hip-hop is inappropriate for a public event. Most of it is all about mature situations and parents attending with children dont have the option to change the station as they do in their SUV.

This was my first XFC, and must say I was disappointed in all of it. From the way competitors were judged, to the planning of the night fly, which was a MAJOR let down.

I personally like the way the events are going, a little more loosened up and not as up tight as they have always been, BUT, there is a line to be drawn with a public event and should be handled in a much more professional manner.

Although, I WILL NOT be attending another XFC, for reasons that are better left to another discussion, but its quite sickening how the competition is ran, not fair at all, and I refuse to support it, and the supporting "groups" and parties. Especially if they feel the same way about things as you do J.Bourke.

"To Hell with the attendees!! Lets Party!!!! errr.....Fly!!!"

[WreckRman2]

Sure the night fly with pyro stumbled out of the gate but just wait til next year!

Wendell Adkins
XFC Contest Director

HAHA, that's a bold yet funny comment. With all of the hype for this years show followed by a HUGE let down I for one won't be back next year.

I had a great time last year and made sure to bring my family and friends this year. I was in shock and awe about how pathetic it was this year. We didn't even bother sticking around for the fireworks because that's NOT why I came to the night fly.

Here's an idea! Don't limit the night fly competition to only those flying in the XFC... OR, make it mandatory that every contestant must participate in the night fly.

[*MoNSteR*]

HAHA, that's a bold yet funny comment. With all of the hype for this years show followed by a HUGE let down I for one won't be back next year.

I had a great time last year and made sure to bring my family and friends this year. I was in shock and awe about how pathetic it was this year. We didn't even bother sticking around for the fireworks because that's NOT why I came to the night fly.

Here's an idea! Don't limit the night fly competition to only those flying in the XFC... OR, make it mandatory that every contestant must participate in the night fly.

Ya, and you dont live but a few minutes away. Imagine the folks who drove hours!!

I imagine that there are many many folks disappointed that just dont come here to state their opinion and never will. Im sure there are many many more that feel the same.

[mony]

"How about some country music? Never any bad words." This is not true... Have you ever listened to David Allen Coe??? His songs can be very rude, crude, and funny (if you don't take it seriously).

[joseosanchez]

Hi All,

I am new to this forum, but I just wanted to give my nickels worth comments.

This was my first time to the XFC championship and I loved it. It is true I was expecting more of the night fly. After a whole sunny day, my wife and myself were exhausted and decided to stay because of the big hype of the night fly. Didn't happen, but still the balance is tipped completely to the "I had a great time" than to the "I will never come back again". I think the XFC organizers know that was a miss and I bet they already have taken steps to have a way much better event next year.

About the music, not much to comment, we don't have kids and we really don't pay much attention to what is played on the background. But as explained by the organizers they will take care of that next year too.

Just some suggestions,

- I think the different stages on the event should be clarified by the PA, even though a calendar was posted, people like to hear it too. Additonally, when things happen like pilots didn't show up for whatever reason, the public should be communicated of the change of plans.
- Also I think during the dead time, were there are no flights a quick 3D explanation of maneuvers by some pilots will be nice, for those spectators that don't know much about it. Example, this a blender (and do a blender in the air), etc.

Just some thoughts.

Anyway, thank you for the event, I loved it and I will back next year.

[cjcyclesrc]

"How about some country music? Never any bad words." This is not true... Have you ever listened to David Allen Coe??? His songs can be very rude, crude, and funny (if you don't take it seriously).


Yep. He is a jerk for sure. I worked security for one of his concerts and I was very dissapointed in the way he acted. No respect for other people's property.

[jbourke]

Way to promote the hobby Bourke, tell everyone to stay home if they dont like the way things are ran. NOT very professional.


There is simply nothing about my posts in this thread that expresses that sort of sentiment. I clearly welcomed all comments, including yours.

Jim

[AndreasHeger]

Sorry to all that the Night Fly didn't turn out as well as it did last year...
Unfortunately I couldn't make it this year but the last year's Night Fly was spectacular.
I am positive that the XFC organizers will make sure to have another great one next year.
-A

[*MoNSteR*]

There is simply nothing about my posts in this thread that expresses that sort of sentiment. I clearly welcomed all comments, including yours.

Jim


but attendees need to expect that contemporary songs like "My Hump" will be played.

then reducing one's exposure can be accomplished by avoiding the risk entirely.


These two statements by you essentially translate into, "If you dont like it stay at home"

[Bohica35]

For those of you that haven't read or followed this entire thread (as I have) I would like to provide some cliffs notes. Mainly because I see the same topics being rehashed even though they have been addressed. The great thing about message boards like this is the everyone can discuss and share their input and recommendations. The advantage that THIS message board has over other forums I belong to, is that everyone here is on the same "team". Everyone wants to see advancements in the hobby, and I don't think anyone here is "anti-XFC". We all seem to think it's a great event want to see it get better.

So in an effort to be productive, this is what I have taken from the thread.


Suggestions/concerns

- The nightfly didn't quite live up to the expectations due to pilots having unforeseen last minute problems.

- It was suggested that these ^ types of problems are communicated to the crowd in the future. (good idea)

- In order to improve next year's nightfly, the XFC has announced a $1,000.00 purse to the winner that will surely make that portion of the event even better.

- Someone suggested that the nightfly be opened to the public (or maybe attracting pilots that specialize in this type of thing). I don't know the rules about this, but I wouldn't think the XFC would be opposed to this, They already have exhibition pilots that are not competing... I don't know. I'm sure they would want it organized ahead of time, as opposed to a "run whatcha brung" type of situation.

- It was suggested that an itinerary is more clearly communicated, explaining what is next, what is after that, etc. (another good suggestion IMO)

- The gentleman coordinating the music made an honest effort assemble new and popular music that falls in line with promoting the sport to the youth. He selected songs off of the top 100 list and didn't listen to every song and review all lyrics. As a result, there was one verse that some found offensive. **personal comment** I think we can all appreciate that this was an honest mistake and not meant as a way to promote breasts or asses to the crowd. One offiensive line of one song in 8 years of competition seems to be an overwhelming ratio of good/bad music.

- JR and Horizon were both participants in this event and both had banners displayed. It was also explained that the level of exposure is directly related to the level of sponsorship. And it sounds like JR is feeling the crunch of the economy (as many of us are) so I think it's understandable that they participated in a lesser capacity.

- Aside from one person in this thread, everyone is in agreement that the main competition was great.

- Someone suggested an informational demonstration, explaining what certain moves are. I personally think this is a good idea. Especially if they would be able to fit it into the transition periods between airplane and helis.

- Someone mentioned having lights in and/or around the porto-potties


Just as important as it is to mention areas of improvement (as above), it's equally as important to mention what is already good. This way they know where the value is, and what to build on. Below are the areas that seems everyone is very happy with

- Quality of pilots. The level of talent was absolutely top notch, no if's, and's, or but's. The best pilots known to mankind were in attendance. As I mentioned before, at the XFC there are no "losers". Even the lowest placing pilots would be the stars of most competitions. This is probably the biggest attraction to me personally. The XFC is the equivilent of a HW title fight. Even the worst pro boxer would make the average neighborhood toughguy look like a girl scout. The XFC is no different. These pilots come to compete in a serious, serious way. When these guys are all competing against each other, they are pushing the boundaries of what is possible. I talked to several serious enthusiasts of the hobby at the XFC that mentioned they were seeing maneauvers that not only had they not seen before, but they didn't think they were even possible.

Similar to witnessing Travis Pastrana's first ever double backflip, Tony Hawk's 900, Wilt Chamberlin's 100 point game, Michael Phelps' 8 gold medals, or Michael Jordan's first dunk from the foul line.....watching the XFC I get a sense that I am witnessing history in the making. It's pretty exciting stuff.

-The combo competition with airplanes and helicopters. You get a real feeling that this event is a true display of the best the hobby has to offer as a whole as opposed to just planes or just helicopters. It's a good way to present the hobby to newcomers (as I am)

- The nightfly. Even though this year's nightfly was a cause for some criticism, apparently there is a large demand for it, and the choice to add the nightfly to the XFC seems to be a good decision. With it being an actual competition next year, I think it's going to be a huge hit. I personally see it as a fun, novelty sort of thing, so my suggestion would be to make it a "crowd favorite" type of judging as opposed to being judged on technical merits by the typical judges.

- It seems to be the concensus that the live band was a good idea. Most people have commented that it was a good addition.

- The BBQ dinner seemed to be a big hit also. I know we participated and it was a welcome alternative to the hot dogs, burgers, and pizza that were available all day from the vendors.

- The value. I think I am the only one that has mentioned this, but I will mention it again. $7 is INCREDIBLE value. I usually spend more than that on parking when I go to most concerts, full scale air shows, sporting events, etc. The XFC is a great way to have entertainment for the whole family for a reasonable price. You'd be hard pressed to find a better value. I'm not sure if there is an extra charge for it or not, but there is plenty of room, and seemed to be a fun atmosphere for camping. I wish I hand an RV.

- Open "pits" and access to the pilots. There aren't many international competitions where you can literally walk up and talk to the competitors like this. Not only that, but the pilots were all extremely friendly. I got a true feeling that these guys love what they do, and felt honored to be able to perform for such a large crowd. It's a very personal event.

- The ability for spectators to fly. Futaba had a bunch of planes there on buddy boxes, and were allowing people the opportunity to fly. There were a lot of people over there that had no involvement with the hobby and attended solely from the advertisements. Having these planes available opened the door to a lot of people that would have not had this opportunity. Kudos to Futaba. I hope they do that again next year.

- The fireworks. Having a professional fireworks display is definitely cool. It's great for the family. Sometimes it's hard for wives and children to stay engaged with watching RC all day, but things like the band, the nightfly, and the fireworks definitely have a broad appeal that they find entertaining.

- The silent auctions and raffles. This is a good way for people to get into the hobby for a reasonable price. I didn't get anything, but I saw $350 heli kits going for $140, $80 nightfly kits for like $30.... It's a good opportunity.

- The freebies. They gave out glow necklaces, t-shirts, some sort of messenger bags (or something), can coozies, etc. People like free stuff, and it seemed like it was keeping the crowd involved. The crowd participation seemed pretty good.






As an overview. The XFC is a great event. There were a few minor snags this year, but the good thing is that all of them are very fixable, and for most of them, it sounds like they have already been addressed. I thought this year was great, and with the plans for improvement next year, it will likely be even better. I can't wait


I apologize that my "cliffs notes" turned into a novel. I tend to get long-winded. :o

[jbourke]

That's a good summary.

My perspective is that the event gets better every year. The XFC organizers have proven that they listen to the feedback.

Jim

[joseosanchez]

Great summary.

[WreckRman2]

My perspective is that the event gets better every year.

Jim

The original post was about the embarrasment of the night fly portion of the event and I'm sorry but this time it did not get better. :eek:

[Bohica35]

The original post was about the embarrasment of the night fly portion of the event and I'm sorry but this time it did not get better. :eek:


I think he was saying that the "event" was better as a whole despite the problem with the nightfly.


From my understanding, the nightfly is a new addition to the event. I think last year was the first year for it...?

With that said, this is not a nightfly competition. The nightfly is icing on the cake. It's a very small portion of the event. But it sounds like the XFC is making efforts to get even more participation next year.

[AEROCOLOR]

I have perused this thread completely and am feeling it has served its purpose.There is a tremendous amount of labor and effort by many people to make this competition possible and I can`t believe one hour out of four days is what we are still dwelling on. LET IT GO.
See you all next year.

Bill

[MCART]

- Quality of pilots. The level of talent was absolutely top notch, no if's, and's, or but's. The best pilots known to mankind were in attendance. As I mentioned before, at the XFC there are no "losers". Even the lowest placing pilots would be the stars of most competitions. This is probably the biggest attraction to me personally. The XFC is the equivilent of a HW title fight. Even the worst pro boxer would make the average neighborhood toughguy look like a girl scout. The XFC is no different. These pilots come to compete in a serious, serious way. When these guys are all competing against each other, they are pushing the boundaries of what is possible. I talked to several serious enthusiasts of the hobby at the XFC that mentioned they were seeing maneauvers that not only had they not seen before, but they didn't think they were even possible. :o
At the risk of starting a whole new debate, in my opinion you went a little too far. While the worst pilot at XFC was a 1000 times better than me, when you say the best pilots known to mankind, what about (in no particular order):

1) QQ
2) Chip Hyde
3) Andrew Jesky
4) Jason Schulman
5) Mark Leesburg
6) Sorry to the others I am forgetting.

Disregarding the night fly event was this the best XFC ever? Not for me. I also missed Matt Chappman flying his Eagle 580 in tandem with Jason Knoll (or was it Frank). That was really cool.

[Bergwood]

when you say the best pilots known to mankind, what about (in no particular order):

1) QQ
2) Chip Hyde
3) Andrew Jesky
4) Jason Schulman
5) Mark Leesburg
6) Bergwood

Hey, you forgot about me. ;) Just kidding :D

Berg

[*MoNSteR*]

About the night fly, I think part of the problem was everyone had to compete the following day and didnt want to risk their bird.

I personally think the night fly should be a seperate competition available even to those who may want to night fly only. With the $1000 prize next year it will be more attractive, but it should not be an option for the main event competitors only.

There is more risk involved with spectator safety with the night fly, so there should be at least some sort of pre-requisite. Maybe take the not-so-named pilots to the back 40 and have them demonstrate their ability to fly in the daytime in a manner consitent with night flight, the day of the competition. Those who cannot demonstrate adequate skill with their particular aircraft should not be allowed to fly in the night competition. This would also take in to account the type or aircraft that would be flow. Obviously a 6oz. foamy would fall farther in to the safety margin than a 15-20lb 50cc giant, or a 90 size heli.

[AEROCOLOR]

Both Team & Nightfly are seperate competitions that anyone can enter. The XFC Committee has to approve all props and pyro before they are used to ensure safety for all.
As far as getting the "big" names to fly there really is not a concern. One of the original thoughts for the XFC was to showcase new and exciting talent in the 3D realm of flying. There are many great pilots that will never be invited to the Masters or Shootout due to their location or chosen flying discipline and that`s where the XFC comes in. A good example is Gabriel this year. It would be a shame to not ever see him fly. Gernot was another one. Look at the heli side. These guys are all young and awesome and we get new pilots each year that amaze me with their skills.I`d much rather have skilled pilots that are appreciative for the opportunity than the same old list of pros.
If anyone wants to get in to the nightfly, team or the XFC competition, all it takes is a demo video sent to the committee or try out for the last chance qualifying on Thursday.

[Bohica35]

There are many great pilots that will never be invited to the Masters or Shootout due to their location or chosen flying discipline and that`s where the XFC comes in. A good example is Gabriel this year. It would be a shame to not ever see him fly.


I don't know Gabriel's background, but I agree. I thought he was one of the better airplane pilots. I really enjoyed his flights. While I thought that Jason was still more technical and polished....Gabriel was a little more of a crowd pleaser. It seemed like everyone was amped every time he flew.






As for someone mentioning the other great pilots that weren't there this year....if you search their names....most of those guys (if not all, I don't know) have XFC on their resume....

I'm pretty sure that any pilot on the planet would be ecstatic to have an XFC championship on their record. And I would expect that with the visibility of this competition, it definitely helps people with their courtship of sponsors. If I were going to try to go pro doing this thing (which won't happen because I don't have the ability or patience) the competing in, and winning the XFC would probably my ultimate goal.

[Acefredbaron]

What would be some of the criteria for your XFC presentations? Could we use sparklers on our planes along with the lights? What did the AMA wavier cover this year for attached pyrotechnics? It would be nice to know so we would know what to include in our video presentations.

[MCART]

I called the AMA to find out what exactly they had negotiated to allow at the XFC. While the XFC had hoped for roman candles mounted to the aircraft, apparently the rules comittee had only authourized sparklers to be mounted to the aircraft and as we all know this never actually happened.

Regarding next years competition, they advised that it would not be allowed (for the purposes of making a contest entry video) to mount any sort of pyrotechnics to an aircraft. They were not sure if the XFC would need to go before the rules committee again to request such an exemption for next year or if this was a one time exemption.

[Acefredbaron]

Thanks, MCART, that's the best explanation and the most information about what the AMA authorized that I've heard! Now I know what I would have seen if I had seen what I might have seen if it had happened.

[DonJuan]

Sparklers? Really?!! Really!!!

[foam and tape]

I called the AMA to find out what exactly they had negotiated to allow at the XFC. While the XFC had hoped for roman candles mounted to the aircraft, apparently the rules comittee had only authourized sparklers to be mounted to the aircraft and as we all know this never actually happened.

Regarding next years competition, they advised that it would not be allowed (for the purposes of making a contest entry video) to mount any sort of pyrotechnics to an aircraft. They were not sure if the XFC would need to go before the rules committee again to request such an exemption for next year or if this was a one time exemption.


what about foutain type devices? If you don't know what they are theyre essentially slightly larger sparkelers. the reasons for foutains are, the burn times are longer, they are MUCH easier to remotely ignite from the plane and easier and more visually peasing. Fountains dont shoot any type of flaming balls though, they aren't roman candles.

if they say no to this I REALLY dont know how anyone will be impressed with ''sparkerlers'' :confused: