pico pilot

[jaysbay]

I am new to uav rc planes,and was wondering if any of you guys have used the pico pilot na system.I am thinking about purchasing one and would like to get your opinion .I am planning on installing the system in a easy glider.

Thank you
Johnny

[tekrunner]

You'll find there aren't many fans of UNAV around here or anywhere that I know of. You're light years better off with Deans Atto Pilot. It's about the same price and has much more features.

BTW, the easyglider is a bit small but has been used successfully.

[Irv]

You'll find there aren't many fans of UNAV around here or anywhere that I know of. You're light years better off with Deans Atto Pilot. It's about the same price and has much more features.

BTW, the easyglider is a bit small but has been used successfully.

I second the AttoPilot reccomendation and the use of the Easy Glider

Irv

[Gary Mortimer]

Another great place to look is DIYdrones, bit of work required on that one though http://www.diydrones.com

Attopilot...

http://www.attopilot.com

or

http://www.attopilot.ning.com

[jaysbay]

I second the AttoPilot reccomendation and the use of the Easy Glider



Irv
Thank you guys for the reply's,I guess I will go with the atto pilot when the time comes.But the price yikes..........Irv I noticed that you are also here in San Diego,Do you or any of the guys you fly with, fly uav,s.If so where do you guys fly.
Johnny

[dmgoedde]

Thank you guys for the reply's,I guess I will go with the atto pilot when the time comes.But the price yikes..........Irv I noticed that you are also here in San Diego,Do you or any of the guys you fly with, fly uav,s.If so where do you guys fly.
JohnnyThe Atto might have more features than you need. The price was set based on cost and time spent on a lengthy development, and the fact that it has several features that you won't find even in the $6k IMU autopilots (5Hz datalogging of 75 params to removable micro-SD card, automatic airspeed-based gain scheduling in the 50 Hz attitude control loops) and is comparable to those IMU units in other respects (self trimming, 50Hz attitude control, elevon mixing, 2-way telemetry and control, autonomous takeoff, integrated power sensing and programmable mAh failsafes).

For a couple hundred $ total, you could give the Ardupilot a try.

[airmcn_3]

Thank you guys for the reply's,I guess I will go with the atto pilot when the time comes.But the price yikes..........Irv I noticed that you are also here in San Diego,Do you or any of the guys you fly with, fly uav,s.If so where do you guys fly.
Johnny


Ardu is not a bad option if your on a budget, you really cant beat Atto for the price....

[zlite]

I'm the developer of ArduPilot, but if you're new to this field I recommend AttoPilot. ArduPilot is an open source autopilot and designed for people who want to get into the workings a bit. If you're looking for something closer to plug and play, you'll find AttoPilot very mature and capable.

One thing we can all agree on is to avoid PicoPilot!

[Irv]

Thank you guys for the reply's,I guess I will go with the atto pilot when the time comes.But the price yikes..........Irv I noticed that you are also here in San Diego,Do you or any of the guys you fly with, fly uav,s.If so where do you guys fly.
Johnny
Yes, I fly an Easy Glider as a UAV in North County. Email/PM me if you wish.

Irv

[Buzz_Lightyear]

Since 2 of the "Big Three" have been named, I might as well name the last one. If you are looking for great feature set at a much lower price, check out paparazzi. Takes a bit of work, but the project is coming closer and closer to "plug and play".

http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Main_Page

[dmgoedde]

Since 2 of the "Big Three" have been named, I might as well name the last one. If you are looking for great feature set at a much lower price, check out paparazzi. Takes a bit of work, but the project is coming closer and closer to "plug and play".

http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Main_PageAt $535-$575 assembled and requiring some work can the paparazzi really be called a "much lower price"?

http://ppzuav.com/osc/catalog/index.php?cPath=2&osCsid=b5e267f86d7274611ee24b9fdebd8432

[zlite]

At $535-$575 assembled and requiring some work can the paparazzi really be called a "much lower price"?

http://ppzuav.com/osc/catalog/index.php?cPath=2&osCsid=b5e267f86d7274611ee24b9fdebd8432


Good point:

--AttoPilot is $800 with EVERYTHING
--ArduPilot looks very cheap at $24.95 for the main board, but by the time you put together everything else you need it's about $200.
--the UAVDevBoard (http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9038) is $149 for the board w/sensors, but when you add the GPS and required PIC programmer, it's around $300 (the software doesn't support waypoints yet and it's the only one without a ground station)

In terms of complexity and "plug and playness", I'd put them in this order (easiest first)

1) Atto
2) Ardu
3) UAVDevBoard
4) Paparazzi (mostly because of the additional Linux complexity. If you're a Linux pro, it would rank higher)

[RolandS888]

edit

[Buzz_Lightyear]

At $535-$575 assembled and requiring some work can the paparazzi really be called a "much lower price"?

http://ppzuav.com/osc/catalog/index.php?cPath=2&osCsid=b5e267f86d7274611ee24b9fdebd8432
At $330 (basic system) to $455 (includes telemetry and adapter for any RC receiver), I would say yes. In my book, half price qualifies for much lower.

http://chebuzz.com/paparazzi/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=15

PS - And the work required is the same as with Atto, as far as I understand, which is installing it to an airframe and then tuning gain parameters.

[jaysbay]

Good point:

--AttoPilot is $800 with EVERYTHING
--ArduPilot looks very cheap at $24.95 for the main board, but by the time you put together everything else you need it's about $200.
--the UAVDevBoard (http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9038) is $149 for the board w/sensors, but when you add the GPS and required PIC programmer, it's around $300 (the software doesn't support waypoints yet and it's the only one without a ground station)

In terms of complexity and "plug and playness", I'd put them in this order (easiest first)

1) Atto
2) Ardu
3) UAVDevBoard
4) Paparazzi (mostly because of the additional Linux complexity. If you're a Linux pro, it would rank higher)

Firirst off,thank you guys for all the info.I am still looking around but it looks like the attopilot is more user friendly,and with me not having any experience in electronics and very little in computers i think the attopilot is best suited for me. looks like I am going to have fun with this whole uav stuff.
Johnny

[brakar]

I take it you live in the US then. We in Europe do not have that option, yet anyway...

[webfoot175]

One thing we can all agree on is to avoid PicoPilot!

I have a picopilot on my Hobby-Lobby Hawk and it works great.
Obviously zlite is just trying to sell his autopilot.

[Buzz_Lightyear]

I have a picopilot on my Hobby-Lobby Hawk and it works great.
Obviously zlite is just trying to sell his autopilot.
Trying to sell an autopilot that is cheaper and more capable than the mentioned competition? I see nothing wrong with that. :) And if you have frequented these forums, you will know that zlite was just echoing the prevailing opinion when it comes to the picopilot.

[spitfiremk9]

I agree Buzz, zlite is telling the truth and sharing his opinion, nothing wrong with that at all, it is common knowledge that there is a substantial amount of bad feeling toward Picopilot and its manufacturers
I for one would have much prefered to have been forwarned before I parted company with my dough!

[zlite]

I have a picopilot on my Hobby-Lobby Hawk and it works great.
Obviously zlite is just trying to sell his autopilot.

Actually, if you read my post you'll see I was suggesting he buy Dean's AttoPilot.

As the unhappy owner of two $800 PicoPilots and their appalling software, I'm just motivated to see other people not make my mistake. We don't sell ArduPilot (we give it away; other companies make and sell them) and I'm just keen to see people have a better newcomer experience than I did, which is why I usually recommend Dean's gear.

[webfoot175]

As the unhappy owner of two $800 PicoPilots and their appalling software...

Yes I've seen the negative comments about Picopilot but since I've had such good luck with mine I really doubt their creditability. Guys like IceBear and others have been posting "good" picopilot experiences for a couple years now. It looks to me like most of these nay-sayers are actually supporters of other autopilot projects so I have to conclude they are just trying to cast doubt on their competition. Picopilot works for me !

[spitfiremk9]

Yes I've seen the negative comments about Picopilot but since I've had such good luck with mine I really doubt their creditability. Guys like IceBear and others have been posting "good" picopilot experiences for a couple years now. It looks to me like most of these nay-sayers are actually supporters of other autopilot projects so I have to conclude they are just trying to cast doubt on their competition. Picopilot works for me !
Hi Webfoot, I am genuinely happy for you having had good results from U-nav, but personaly I would like to know who the
"others" are who are posting good things? I haven't seen them and would love to read such posts
We all know icebear and are familiar with his exemplary achievements, another could be Workshop, he may have picopilot?
I would like to set the record straight right now, I have no connections with any AP manufacturer, I am just an honest guy giving a truthful account of my dealings with Picopilot and the company, if you conclude that as naysaying then I question your calculating skills

[webfoot175]

Hi Webfoot, I am genuinely happy for you having had good results from U-nav We all know icebear and are familiar with his exemplary achievements, another could be Workshop, he may have picopilot?


My point is that I have picopilot and I personally haven't had any of the problems some of these guys have claimed. I bought my pico-na in October 2008 for $600 and I didn't have any problems installing the software or installing the autopilot. I did have a few frustrations setting up a USB to serial adapter but that's normal computer stuff. My Hawk flys straight to the waypoints and holds altitude within about 20 feet and it makes turns in about 50 feet. I've flown a few test flights using all 32 waypoints with no problems. Inspired by IceBear's missions, I'm setting up a side mounted camera on my Hawk for some picture missions. I wouldn't be doing that if I didn't trust the autopilot. All I'm saying is that some of the complaints I've read on this forum simply don't match up with my experiences. IceBear, workshop and Mark Hanson are the guys I was refering to.

[spitfiremk9]

My point is that I have picopilot and I personally haven't had any of the problems some of these guys have claimed. I bought my pico-na in October 2008 for $600 and I didn't have any problems installing the software or installing the autopilot. I did have a few frustrations setting up a USB to serial adapter but that's normal computer stuff. My Hawk flys straight to the waypoints and holds altitude within about 20 feet and it makes turns in about 50 feet. I've flown a few test flights using all 32 waypoints with no problems. Inspired by IceBear's missions, I'm setting up a side mounted camera on my Hawk for some picture missions. I wouldn't be doing that if I didn't trust the autopilot. All I'm saying is that some of the complaints I've read on this forum simply don't match up with my experiences. IceBear, workshop and Mark Hanson are the guys I was refering to.

Wow! sounds like you got straight on the button, it didn't work out that way for me or 99% of the others, but then again we all have different experiences

[webfoot175]

Wow! sounds like you got straight on the button, it didn't work out that way for me or 99% of the others, but then again we all have different experiences

I think you are talking about popularity. Anyone in advertising will tell you that popularity is based on perception and not necessarily on the facts. Just because some guys on a forum say the moon is made of green cheeze doesn't mean its true.

[spitfiremk9]

I think you are talking about popularity. Anyone in advertising will tell you that popularity is based on perception and not necessarily on the facts. Just because some guys on a forum say the moon is made of green cheeze doesn't mean its true.
You're wrong, we're not talking advertising here or propaganda posts, we are talking bad autopilot manufacturers and how to avoid getting a bad deal!
Like I said, congratulations on succeeding where many others have failed

[webfoot175]

we are talking bad autopilot manufacturers


your statement sure sounds like propaganda to me, sorry to hear that you couldn't figure out how to get your picopilot working.

[spitfiremk9]

[QUOTE=webfoot175]Yes I've seen the negative comments about Picopilot "


Its hard to avoid them there have been so many, some of them so bad that they have been removed! If you have had so much success with your Autopilot?Uav, please post some pictures? Everyone on here would be delighted to see them

[webfoot175]

My 15 year old nephew is looking for some summer work, maybe he can help you get your picopilot working.

[ehx]

"My 15 year old nephew is looking for some summer work, maybe he can help you get your picopilot working."

I'm glad your picopilot is working well for you. If you can show us some pics of what you do with it that would be great.

U-nav wouldn't still be in business without at least some satisfied customers. I'm sure their products work at least in some instances. The problem I have with them is the false information they put out in their FAQ page about GPS. They claim that clouds and/or rain affect GPS and therefore the performance of their autopilot. That's simply not true. The GPS frequencies were chosen specifically because they were immune to weather influence.

Why U-Nav has this false information in their faq I'm not sure. Maybe it's an easy way to "explain" problems with their systems. Maybe GPS is really just a "black box" system to them and they have no clue as to how it works.

Whatever the reason, it ought to be a red flag about the company.

Over the years I've talked to several head engineers of companies who have developed autopilots. Typically they have computer engineering and/or software backgrounds and GPS was a "black-box" technology to them. But, they were good engineers and tested the technology and eventually developed a good understanding of how it works. They didn't make up stuff like U-Nav.

When a company has false information on their website and it's still there after it's been pointed out ... well, they deserve some bad publicity as they are doing a disservice to the community as a whole.

[spitfiremk9]

My 15 year old nephew is looking for some summer work, maybe he can help you get your picopilot working.


I sold that pos on ebay last year, I have cloud cap system now and that works perfect, even in bad weather so I'm sory your 15 year old nephew will have to look elsewhere, NASA maybe?

There seems to be a few that would like to see pictures of your system Webfoot, if they exist we would love to see them

[jaysbay]

I sold that pos on ebay last year, I have cloud cap system now and that works perfect, even in bad weather so I'm sory your 15 year old nephew will have to look elsewhere, NASA maybe?

There seems to be a few that would like to see pictures of your system Webfoot, if they exist we would love to see them
Boy did I open up a can of worms.............
Jaysbay

[GeeW]

And there was me thinking all the people on this forum would be as nice as the crowd over in the AP forum!
I, like Jaysbay, am seriously interested in UAV and am looking to puchase an autopilot system.

[dmgoedde]

I sold that pos on ebay last year, I have cloud cap system now and that works perfect, even in bad weather so I'm sory your 15 year old nephew will have to look elsewhere, NASA maybe?

There seems to be a few that would like to see pictures of your system Webfoot, if they exist we would love to see themYes, from Webfoot, ChuckyDGr8, EddieHaskel would be nice to see their UAVs.

[spitfiremk9]

And there was me thinking all the people on this forum would be as nice as the crowd over in the AP forum!
I, like Jaysbay, am seriously interested in UAV and am looking to puchase an autopilot system.

Most of us are nicer, its just that the majority on here that have bought certain autopilots, have had bad experiences with certain "vendors" and are unhappy! Some of us have coughed up thousands of Dollars and got treated like manure by the company after purchase which compounds the disappointment, so I believe all the anger is justified.

There are many like you on here that are seriously interested in UAVs, some of them just happy to watch a small airplane fly around by itself until they decide to regain control and land it, then some that want forementioned small airplane to guide itself to the top of that little hill just there consistently and take a picture.
Then there are the academic/semi genius types that create such devices, some of these are willing to part with formentioned hardware and the knowledge to operate it for little more than the price of a square meal, others require a more realistic figure because of the more sophisticated nature of the device, but still offer a tremendous amount of aftersales support and advice.
Last but by no means least there are the ones that have no other ambition but to chase the proverbial 30 pices of silver

[Mark Hanson]

Last but by no means least there are the ones that have no other ambition but to chase the proverbial 30 pices of silver

....are you talking about CloudCap ? The last time I heard, their Piccolo-LT was priced at $6000+

[Gary Mortimer]

Er I don't expect he was same user many times over

[spitfiremk9]

Er I don't expect he was same user many times over

Er clarification there please Gaza

[brakar]

Mark Hanson, you may have noticed there have been a good deal of speculations about the usability and intended areas of use for the new UNAV3550 autopilot. It woul be nice to have your view on this.
Regards, brakar

[patrickegan]

You could, but…
The new heroes will only dish out preconceived misconceptions of a product who’s main deficiency is being devoid the self adulation experience of the twitter set. My advice would be for UNAV to start discounting product with promises of future free/low cost goodies (how this all started) as to enlist its own cabal of sycophants and toddies (sock puppets et al). You’ll have to express to the board that a company has to emulate the jackal (as we have witnessed) as it is the new way of business. :(

[Mark Hanson]

Mark Hanson, you may have noticed there have been a good deal of speculations about the usability and intended areas of use for the new UNAV3550 autopilot. It woul be nice to have your view on this.
Regards, brakar

The 3550 was specifically designed for small, commercial UAVs (small electric fixed-wing aircraft). The 3550's feature set supports proposed FAA guidelines for Group II sUAS operations.

http://www.u-nav.com/3550.html

[patrickegan]

Mark,
Do you think UNAV will support/participate in the ASTM F-38 certification standards?

[spitfiremk9]

You could, but…
The new heroes will only dish out preconceived misconceptions of a product who’s main deficiency is being devoid the self adulation experience of the twitter set. My advice would be for UNAV to start discounting product with promises of future free/low cost goodies (how this all started) as to enlist its own cabal of sycophants and toddies (sock puppets et al). You’ll have to express to the board that a company has to emulate the jackal (as we have witnessed) as it is the new way of business. :(

Ahh preaching to the choir!

[patrickegan]

Nah, that's tweetin' to the choir.

[professor]

I have a picopilot on my Hobby-Lobby Hawk and it works great.
Obviously zlite is just trying to sell his autopilot.

I found the customer service at Pico to be actively hostile. Their autopilot is junk and they try to distract from that fact with rudeness.

We purchased a $12K Micropilot system and their customer service was nonexistant. Atto, Atto, Atto.

[spitfiremk9]

I found the customer service at Pico to be actively hostile. Their autopilot is junk and they try to distract from that fact with rudeness.

We purchased a $12K Micropilot system and their customer service was nonexistant. Atto, Atto, Atto.

I could not agree more, this is IDENTICAL treatment that I received from U-nav!
However, I'm sure that Professor will be quickly cast into the " Gratis brigade, twitter set, nay sayer, sycophant " pile by the powers that pretend to be

[patrickegan]

Lest we forget… Sock puppet and paid spokes-tweeter :)

[dmgoedde]

I found the customer service at Pico to be actively hostile. Their autopilot is junk and they try to distract from that fact with rudeness.

We purchased a $12K Micropilot system and their customer service was nonexistant. Atto, Atto, Atto.Professor - as a paying customer of mine, I think you can agree that you owe me nothing in terms of talking nicely about me... i.e. I have not payed for your loyalty by giving you a free-ish beta unit. Would you mind writing down the chronology of support you got from me, starting in mid 2008 with a very early pre-order of the Atto, through where you are today?

[spitfiremk9]

Professor - as a paying customer of mine, I think you can agree that you owe me nothing in terms of talking nicely about me... i.e. I have not payed for your loyalty by giving you a free-ish beta unit. Would you mind writing down the chronology of support you got from me, starting in mid 2008 with a very early pre-order of the Atto, through where you are today?

And where is he today, this "paid spokes tweeter"?

[airmcn_3]

:D And where is he today, this "paid spokes tweeter"? :D