enhanced sailing

[leaky bill]

Greetings

I am wondering if there is a radio system on the market which would permit a modeler with two same scale models to sail in parrallel, that is to say one radio which controls both models. This would not only enhance the fun of sailing but allow simulated unrep ( RAS ) on the lake...

Does such a radio exist...certainly a person with experience in electronics could make it..

I would not expect the models to sail in perfect formation due to water conditions, rudder sensitivity etc but it seems like a logical extension of the hobby...I have tried this idea with two separate radios and it was chaos...
two hands is simply not enough to sail that way..

Cheers from my dockyard

John

[Kmot]

One transmitter will send its signal to as many receivers as are on the same frequency. One, a hundred, it doesn't know the difference.

[norgale]

That's my point too leaky bill. Get a crystall for one receiver and put it into the other receiver and then the one radio will controll both boats. I think you will still have chaos but maybe more fun. Pete

[toesup]

.. or you could mechanically link the two transmitters... :rolleyes:

[leaky bill]

Good idea

However I think it would still require considerable skill on the part of the
radio operator to synchronize the motor speeds.., rudders.....but yes, I agree the use of duplicate crystals is a first step, I believe it would require some sort of home made coupling device to move the four sticks in parallel..

I plan on experimenting with this idea..

I am suprised that it is not an item discusse3d much on the web, sounds like an inexpensive way to enhance the sailing pleasure...

Cheers

John

[patmat2350]

Prediction: It will enhance your frustration level, and certain exclamations unprintable here.
Don't forget-- once the boats are out in the middle of the pond and for sure heading in opposite directions, steering one for shore might send the other into the weeds...

Best to sail with two radios and one friend...

[patmat2350]

Or... 1 Tx, 2 matched Rx's, and only control speed/steering on each (2 channel operation). One model on one joystick, the other on the second... will require ambidexterity, but you'll be able to run them both.

[leaky bill]

Patmat

Yes. I agree that in a perfect world it will work but in reality it is an
unrealistic idea with so many variables both on the water and the radios...I can see it leaving harbor in parrallel for a few yards.. but the first attemp at a turn, the frustration would be immediate.

Reminds me of my first driving in England, got off the ferry and for about 5 miles all went well, then I came to a busy roundabout...oops

Cheers

John

[norgale]

Ya See? They do drive on the wrong side of the road. I told Ya. If I ever go to England I won't drive at all. That will save at least my life. WE get bad accidents and deaths here in Fl. from the Englanders that come here to vacation and try to go driving around. Happens every year. Pete

[Accu157]

Spread Spectrum airplane radio, modify each stick so they ratchet like a throttle, one stick for each model, except model 1 has servos on channels 1 & 2, and model 2 has servos in channels 3 & 4. :)

[tigerbay]

You would need very sophisticated mixing programmes.
I think it is unrealisitc.

Thinking of soldiers marching as a troop (even in fours) highlights some of the problems you will have. Think about how these manouvers could be achieved through channel mixing.
You do really need one brain for each boat.
As has been suggested, sail with a friend. It is more fun anyway.

Basic Army Drill

Manouver 1
Marching in a straight line.Solder needs to match pace and direction with all others (possible).
Think of soldier in the middle as soldier 'O', in front of him is A, to the left is B, to the right is C, behind me is D.

Manouver 2
A left wheel
The soldiers on the left side march more slowly than standard. Those on the right march faster.
The solidier 'O' in the middle needs to compensate to keep the rows and columns in line until the manouver is complete. All relative to soldiers A,B,C, and D, around him.

Manouver 3
A left turn
All soldiers (irresepctive of the number of rows or lines) must turn simultaneosly through 90 degrees.
The soldier on the left front corner become the the soldier on the right front corner.
The soldier on the right front corner becomes the solidier on the right rear corner. etc.
So for soldier 'O' A becomes C, B becomes A, D becomes C, and C becomes A.

Reverse this for a right turn.

Manouver 4
An about turn
All soldiers (irresepctive of the number of rows or lines) must turn simultaneosly through 180 degrees.
The fron left becomes the rear right, and front right becomes rear left. etc.
So for soldier 'O', who the hell is A, who the hell is B. I want my mummy.

If you are one of the guys on the edge of the formation it gest more complex,a s somethines there is no soldier in the slot next to/infront of/behind you.



Luckily for soldiers, the guy in front is always the guy in front. Every time you turn this guy changes, but that is ireelevant, he is still the guy in front. You know when you are on the outside that you have a slightly different task when manouvering. E.G. Go faster, go slower (by how much) maintain the line.

Luckily we have a brain.

But if we were individual robots, with a simple computer, we would have to keep track of all the other members of the squad and where we are in relations to them, and how we should manouver in relationshinship with them, and maintain the correct distances between those around us.

So even with only 2 boats, you can start to see the magnitude of the maths, and vectors required.

[Brooks]

I have used Accu157's method with my tug and barque..... sort of.... both boats have their rudders on the same channel (aileron). I don't have enough channels&joysticks to set up both ships independently, unfortunately. It's pretty hard to control both, both in *brain power* and rudder complications. But it can be done, to a certain extent and is fun in a "no way to get bored with this setup" fashion :-). Running as a team (parallel courses, speeds, turns) has proved beyond my capabilites for more than a 50' path or so.

I have this 1 tx setup so that I can rescue the barque with the tug while only hauling 1 tx to the pond. That is, if the barque gets in trouble, I sail only the tug, not caring what rudder commands I send to the barque. I've made many practice rescues this way.

I think 1, 2-joystick tx for 2 sail boats, provided you only need 1 stick/boat, is more feasible than wearing 2 tx's and trying to juggle them around your neck. I'm thinking particularly of leaning over a boat to make an adjustment (sails or towline) and trying to keep the 2 clunky tx boxes from clobbering the boat.

[nick30head]

just a thought, what about 2x 35mhz 6 channel recievers with identical crystals and a 4 channel transmitter, i'm using a similar principal for controlling 2 motors with 2 esc's wired to the one reciever that way i dont need a rudder (use the motors to steer) the 2 sticks should operate the boats independantly, i live in england an the same can be said for yanks, frogs, aussie's and the rest of the world

[nick_75au]

I take offence to that :p , us Aussies drive on the left(right) :D side of the road as well.
Nick

[boater_dave]

Two boats in tandom? Side by side or end to end? Sounds like a fun event at a precision steering regatta. It would also be very neat to rehearse some kind of water program for a demonstration, like a steeplechase type event where the chase boat has to stay within a few boat lengths of the leader. A kind of model boat synchronized swimming. Use the simple ABS speedboats so that small contact doesn't harm anything.

Dave

[fooman2008]

while the electronics/parallel receiver is not that hard the simple truth is that everything on the water will effect the craft differently causing each of them to be in a slightly different position is relation to its 'wingman;' waves, wake(s), propeller torque, rudder slop, electronic lag in the system, wind, tide, current(s). If it was just a matter or building something that could just follow the same course every time then DARPA would have just built it without any sort of competition rather having to pay $10 million! Instead they have discovered that sensors to be able to react to changing conditions and able to avoid obstacles and problems.
Foo

[nick30head]

sori nick 75, i forgot that the aussies drive the same side as us pom's mate, wish you luck with getting the boats to work on tandem, another thought is that the speedos have to be the same, dont want one speedo with forward only and the other with forward and reverse