Halifax at 10ft 4inches--finished and flown on Aug22--scroll down

[Pat Daily]

So you like them big, huh? Try this--all up weight expected to be 30 lbs with 4 electrics pulling! A group effort of John Hunton, Mike Dale, Bill Hadden, Don Srull and others. All balsa, operating bomb bay, 12 servos. This is the team that built the Handley Paige HP-42. More later.

Updated on August 25, 2009--the Halifax has flown--scroll down to the 2nd page and see photos and videos from Aug 22.

[Berean]

Lookin good

[eye4wings]

Yes, it'll look great in the air...
But I am confused - THIS looks like the Halifax to me! The nose shape is Halifax... the fin shapes are Halifax (almost) - definitely NOT Lancaster which had fins egg-shaped.
Are you sure?

And 30 pounds seems a bit hefty even allowing for retract weight and bomb door... or does that include the bomb load?

I'm embroiled in a Heron 1 build at the moment, with 9" more span - and if it comes out much above half that weight I will be gutted! I thought that electric aeromodelling was essentially trying to get balsa to occupy as much space as possible.

I am not trying to belittle the team's most laudable efforts, but I am just wondering if there has been a mix-up somehow?
Sorry Pat, but are you sure?

[dag214]

Yes, it'll look great in the air...
But I am confused - THIS looks like the Halifax to me! The nose shape is Halifax... the fin shapes are Halifax (almost) - definitely NOT Lancaster which had fins egg-shaped.
Are you sure?

And 30 pounds seems a bit hefty even allowing for retract weight and bomb door... or does that include the bomb load?

I'm embroiled in a Heron 1 build at the moment, with 9" more span - and if it comes out much above half that weight I will be gutted! I thought that electric aeromodelling was essentially trying to get balsa to occupy as much space as possible.

I am not trying to belittle the team's most laudable efforts, but I am just wondering if there has been a mix-up somehow?
Sorry Pat, but are you sure?

You are correct, at least from what the plane looks like, the tail is not a Lancaster, the Lancaster's H-stab is at the bottom of the fuse, this planes H-stab is above the fuse center line. The V-stabs are not Lancaster. And 30 pounds sounds high to me, should be about 16-18, but what do I know about weight, I thought my B-36D was going to be under 70 pounds when I changed my design midstream, and she looks to be 95 now.
The plane in the pic does not have the lines of a Lancaster.

Cheers, DAG

[oldcoot88]

The lines are much closer to the Handley Page Halifax ('cept for the fin shape).
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Halifax_Bomber_2_ExCC.jpg

[Mike Denest]

It's a B III

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Halifax

[Pat Daily]

My mistake--it is a Halifax--I was thinking about Dam Busters when I posted. I corrected the post.

[eye4wings]

Right, Thanks!
That's a relief. Not knowing you Pat I was wondering if the build team were having a laugh at your expense!

The vertical stabs changed to the square form after the Mk 2 when they used more powerful engines to improve performance. Hence the difference between the examples shown in the two posted links. When I originally raised my query I had forgotten the curves to the rudders top and bottom. Having refreshed my memory it now looks exactly like a Halifax fin. Sorry if my glitch led anyone astray.

[hrvojekl]

Very nice. I always liked Halifax. Here is another big one :

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=865647

Hrvoje

[Pat Daily]

eye4wings

You know how it is with those Brit jobs--they all look the same!!! Not really, but I was thinking about the movie Dam Busters which was on TV this past week as I posted the photos. I must admit, I do get confused as I don't know many of the intricacies of British bombers, or US ones for that matter. I tend to like WWI and golden age planes more.

As far as the weight--they estimated it would be 20 lbs, but seems like they are moving the estimates higher. Having never built anything over 48 inches in span, it is like a whole different world to me--I can't compute a 30 lb plane. Heavy to me is over 30 ounces.

[Airboatflyingshp]

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/halifax_spec.html 3 view from Bomber command.

Way heavy even for a Heavy bomber :eek: wheres the wt got in?

[eye4wings]

Pat,
Until about 5 years ago I churned out loads of small models, then I started to see how the bigger I built them the nicer they flew. They had more 'presence' in the air and looked more like the real thing. So my designs became gradually larger - and with the onset of brushless motors and LiPo cells suddenly I could get way over double the power AND half the weight. Who wouldn't get a bit carried away with all that?
Now I could hope (and expect) to fly at scale speed and look back on such exploits as my 60" Liberator flying like a jet fighter just to carry those old NiCads around as 'never again' experiences. And the old building light habits keep paying dividends.
I notice there is still a tendency among modellers as a whole to build as if we were still having to stop reciprocating motors from tearing themselves out of the airframe and the consequent tendency to over-power models adds weight too. The other Halifax thread posted above was a case in point. Brilliant bit of building though.
I've been resisting the 'beef it up a bit just in case' tendency for years - and reducing structure progressively. I suppose there could come a day when one of my models will break up in the air - but it hasn't happened yet!
The other campaign point is to design to use scale-sized props - essentially over-propping the motors - but this enables me to use fewer cells to keep the current draw down... another weight (and cost) saving.

Anyway I hope the Halifax flies well in due course.
No doubt we can look forward to a video of the maiden flight?

[Jaketownsend36]

Wow, that handley-page Halifax looks great.:D
I love british bombers, they just seem very graceful.
I am very lucky where i live because the BBMF lancaster flies over alot btw, just felt like saying that.

[Rengine]

Hey Pat - I love 'em big - and that's looking REAL good for sure!

Have to agree with eye4wings too - having built a 7 foot span P-39 that flys great and came out at 5.5 pounds AUW (no gear, belly landing) or 6 pounds (with non-retract gear) I too think you'll be ending up with maybe 15 pounds or so. You could get away with 2 motors if you really wanted...

I'm finding out that giant scale electric planes can be built with mostly foam and end up much lighter than traditional balsa/ply/covering built for petrol engines...

Can't wait to see her fly!! :) :D

[Jaketownsend36]

Keep us updated with the build mate :)

[Pat Daily]

Here is a link to an update on the Maxecuter website.

http://dcmaxecuter.org/017BJULY09PHOTOPAGE/017BJULY09PHOTOPAGE.HTML

[eye4wings]

That Halifax comes apart in more places than I've ever though either possible or wise! I normally use four pieces so I'm surprised!
And since the join points always add weight that explains some of the extra pounds I wondered about.
Still, I'm looking forward to seeing it complete and in the air.

[Pat Daily]

I think they plan to fly it on a test hop tomorrow. I will be there and get photos if they do.

[Pat Daily]

No flight yesterday since not all of the team was present at Mike's--but they did taxi test her and she accelerated nicely, good control on the ground and got light on the wheels. Weighs 34 pounds.

[Pat Daily]

On Aug 22 the Halifax flew--go here for photos and video.

http://dcmaxecuter.org/017GAUGUST09PHOTOPAGE/017GAUGUST09PHOTOPAGE.HTML

[Haole]

Thanks for sharing! Looks like a really fun model.

Carl