Chris Foss Centi Phase

[Gary Binnie]

Hi folks,

I mentioned near the end of the Multi Phase thread that I had a Centi Phase on the way courtesy of eBay, a friend collected it for me and I am now the new proud owner of one slightly used 100S glider of 1979 vintage!

I was given one of these about 20 years ago and it sadly ended up going home in a bin bag when I attempted a bottom of slope landing when the lift died.

I've started this thread as a build log, it would be possible to fly it as it is but I believe that it needs some TLC first (well quite a bit!).

I apologise to the former owner if he reads this, did not meet him and I don't know if he was the original builder.

I've spent a few minutes in the garden surveying the glider, it has some 'interesting features'!

Question is do I put it in the loft with my other retired models, fly it as it is, set fire to it or spend thousands of manhours and pounds sterling to turn it into a thing of beauty?!! As the advert said 'your chance to own a piece of heritage' I suppose it will have to be the last option! :D

Anyway, some photos with captions will describe it best, feel free to chime in with anything Centi Phase related, I might need some help with plans/instructions/dimensions if anyone has them.

£29.99 BTW, cheap as chips!

Cheers

Gary

[Gary Binnie]

I weighed everything before starting whatever it is that I'm going to do, I was intrigued by the weight of the wing panels as they are more than my 12 foot Multi Phase!

Right wing - 400g

Left wing - 460g (60g difference?!)

Tailplanes - 66g

Fuselage and rudder - 810g

Total - 1736g or 3lb 12 oz without radio.

Might be some lead hiding in the nose, haven't looked yet.

This will be a fairly slow, tinkering type project. I've got a kit on the way (Flair Baronette triplane) and a few unfinished projects in the loft.

GB

[Gary Binnie]

Posting a Radio Modeller review of the original kit, the only documentation that I have.

A clear canopy can be seen, the fuselage does not have fillets.

Wing panel weights given as 140g, total weight 1136g (2lb 8oz).

I have found some lead in the nose, looks like it's been poured in or glued, has some drill holes in it, assume it must have been too much.

[Gary Binnie]

I decided to sand the wing root area to have a look at what is underneath. I think that some car body filler has been used, the joiners look ok and the veneer seems good. The paint is very thick but is coming off easily with 80 grit so I might be able to salvage the wing panels.

The rudder is glassed with a fairly coarse weave cloth and weighed 52g which would explain the lead in the nose, easy enough to make a new one.

All good fun!

GB

[Gary Binnie]

Thought I'd finish the evening off with a bit more investigative sanding!

What I can see now is extra reinforcing hardwood strip on the spar joiners, presumably full depth. Does not look like a repair but added at the build stage, overkill and weighs a ton, that's one mystery solved! These wings could be used for slope soaring I suppose.

I checked the dihedral angle that the joiner tubes have been laid in at and they're both different, quelle surprise!

Also discovered that the tailplanes are glassed the same heavy way as the rudder, looked like they were tissue covered at first glance.

The wing fillets are another mystery, from photos of other Centi-Phases none of them have fillets, they look nice but have been built at different incidence angles so I suspect that they will be getting cut off. Not quite sure what the fuselage will be like underneath though, might be opening a can of worms there. Not much to lose really!

Mrs B said that I would be better buying a new one, 'yes dear....!' :rolleyes:

Hey ho

Gary

[GeeW]

Now Mrs B has told you to, you had better go and buy a new glider....it doesn't HAVE to be the same type though. So long as its Black and Yellow when it's finished who's to know?

Just a thought...

Gordon

[Gary Binnie]

My life would be shortened considerably if I bought a shiny starship, anyway it's no fun assembling brand new pieces all straight and correct like!

Thought I would do this one yellow and black instead of black and yellow! :rolleyes: The metallic purple looks like the colour of the hatchbacks that the local 'chavs' drive round in!

Aware that I am picking holes in another builder's model but we all have different standards, plenty of builders would laugh at my efforts probably.

Can't complain at the price and I might end up with a nice model of a long unobtainable type, my logic was that the fuselage was worth the money even if the rest of it was no good. I've primed 'Mr Foamwings' for some more business.

Hope to fly the Tiger back this Thursday all being well, just ground runs and paperwork to do.

[Gary Binnie]

It's a dreary damp day in England, just right for drawing and doing calculations!

I drew out the wing planform on some old wallpaper and marked the dimensions. I also drew round the rudder and tailplanes ready for new ones to be made.

Wing panels - It looks like the trailing edge is used for the wing datum with the joiner rods and spars running parallel to it, sweepback on the leading edge only with no sweepforward on the trailing edge, this makes life easier. The reason for the step at the fuselage root is that there is a 10mm difference in the chords of the fillet and wing, the wing section is also a lot thicker than the fillet (28mm and 21.5mm). It seems then that these wings did not originally belong to this fuselage (if they did something went wrong!)

Fuselage twist - Looking at the fuselage again closely I think that it is the fin that is twisted off to the right by a couple of degrees. With a steel rod through the joiner hole and levelled the root fillets are fairly similar incidence and the cockpit sides are level as well. I would like to keep the fillets as they are quite nicely done (although probably not the original design) so it looks like I will have to try and correct the rear end twist.

I have read about RC Groupers finding twisted fuselages in their new CM Pro Discus/Ventus kits and the advice that seemed to work was to twist them straight with a heat gun, does this sound reasonable?

Sailplane calc - Gives 700 sq in wing area and a wing loading of 9.8 oz sq ft based on a 3lb model. This seems a little short compared to the Flair Albatross 100S wing area of 794 sq in?

It's all helping to understand the design.

Cheers

Gary

[Gary Binnie]

1. I have straightened the fuselage with a hair dryer and gentle pressure, much better now.

2. Flew the Tiger Moth home safely tonight so hopefully I can get on with some modelling!

GB

[Gary Binnie]

Decided to start scraping the purple paint off of the fuselage.

Using 240 grit wet is probably not abrasive enough, might try 120 for a faster result.

A surprising number of different coloured layers, either one owner got bored or its had a few owners, can't be helping the weight.

In chronological order:

Red - Seems to be the original gel coat colour, 1979, Grease/ABBA

Blue - 1987, Madonna.

Light grey - Presumably primer for the next colour

Metallic light green -1995, U2.

Metallic purple - 2003, Christina Aguilera

Like 'Time Team' this!

It would be nice to use the original red colour but I am going to struggle to get all the remnants of the other colours off, will see.

Can't be sure but there could be a block of lead glassed in to the centre section, might be a hardwood block for mounting the hook but it seems a bit too far back.

Still got to get the lead out of the nose.

Gary

[G Norsworthy]

I got one of these from a friend, Nelson Montgomery, about 20 years ago. The wing rod was a little floppy. After flying it for a while I cut out the wing roots, shortened the span, and made it a bolt-on wing. Flew it for a while longer and ultimately folded it on a winch. The fuse was orange gelcoat, decent quality, and the wings were covered in clear plastic.

[prodjx]

I'd paint over that nose with clear coat, people have actually tried to get that effect diliberatly.

[Gary Binnie]

Yep, the single 8 gauge joiner rod does not look up to the job, will try to improve that.

Never thought of leaving the paint as it is, does look quite racy!!

GB

[Charged]

The wing profile is definately an interesting feature .:)

[Gary Binnie]

Yes, they were on the thick side! Have dumped those wings in the garage with the motorbikes. The fuselage fillet section is much thinner and is close to a 10% Eppler 205 section.

I can't imagine that it flew very well at all, would have struggled to climb in lift.

Just reweighed the fuselage with the rudder and have 750g now instead of 810g so I have removed 60g of paint so far, that's over two ounces in old money!

Using 120 grit now to speed the process up, there was a sediment of thick purple sludge in my water bucket when I changed it tonight. 'Rattle cans' are not the best way to go and this fuselage has obviously had a few applied over the years. I will get the boys at work to paint it eventually.

I'm quite determined now to put this dear old machine back to how it was meant to be in 1979, might drop Chris another letter, he will think that I am mad!

Still got to get the lead out of the nose, is it possible folks that this was poured in hot? It looks like that is what happened but surely that would melt the fibre glass resin and there is no sign of any damage?

GB

[fudi50]

Hi Garry FYI
I weighed my wings tail and fuse here is individual weights
port wing 11.04
Starb 11.25
Fuse 31
Stab 1.75
Total all up 55.04Oz
As I have said flying requires little elevator. Spoilers are effective and predictable. turns require Rudder/Elevator input [at least for me]

If you PM me your address I'll send you airmail a copy of the original plans
David

[Gary Binnie]

I've just got to get this out.

Perhaps I can drill and tap it and pull it out.

Stretching the camera limits here.

Spot the pop rivet used as a canopy retainer! :rolleyes:

No pain, no gain.

GB

[Gary Binnie]

Marvellous, thanks Dave.

Have PM'd you. This is what RC Groups is all about, friendly co-operation.

Need to convert your weights to Metric, like many Brits of my era I was brought up on pounds, shillings and pence and pounds and ounces. As an aircraft engineer I only hit the Metric System about 1992 with the Panavia Tornado. I have an original DH Gipsy Major engine manual for the Tiger Moth and there is a mixture of units from about 1955, very strange.

All very confusing and I struggle to do the sums in my head.

At least the 'Euro' is effectively the same as Pound Sterling now!

Your weights are with radio but it gives me a good baseline to aim for.

Cheers

Gary

[Gary Binnie]

More paint removal has the weight down to 708g so another couple of ounces have gone.

Tried to remove the lead from the nose but not having much luck, have just managed to drill some more holes in it.

The wing fillets are actually made out of hardwood of some kind which is not helping the weight. I am wondering what to do with these, leave them as they are, sand them shorter or take them off completely.

If I sand them off I won't need to worry about matching the wing section to them, guess I'm just dithering at the moment!

Gary

[fudi50]

Hi Garry

There are no wing fillets on a Cent-Phase, just an anti crush brace in fuselage, Maybe the original owner hung arround Ricki Shaw, one of Chris f
Foss friends, and picked up on Ricks models which featured wing fillets that had a 1/64th ply wrap around that way it illiminated wing tape.
Copy of original plans airmailed today you should have them by Monday Tuesday latest
Carry on the build mate
David El Britto

[Gary Binnie]

Cheers Dave, you are a star!!

Yep, I've noticed that other Centi's don't have fillets, I think they are going to have to go, just a little bit worried what state the glass will be in underneath them.

This one has the anti crush brace fitted, looks like half kidney shaped pieces of ply glassed in either side where it attaches.

The lead in the nose is annoying, maybe it will need some of it.

I might have a lead on canopies, a guy who runs a model shop in Oxford reckoned that he used to make canopies (and wings) for Chris's kits. Possible that he might have some lying about or maybe a plug for moulding. Fingers crossed.

Shame I don't have any photos at all of my first CP, I am sure that it had a wooden fuselage but I could be wrong!

Cheers

Gary

[fudi50]

i don't think so, Chris was a friend/club member and he liked the way I built in fact he copied my starburst orange on the wings, as such I had his first production kit which was F/G fuse, obechie over foam wings, balsa R/S. Plans show this configeration. Heavens know's this could be a first time I was wrong, Nah! as my wife!!!
Bloody Brit.
David

[fudi50]

Garry,
I would wait on the lead I have a 5 cell battery and lead how much? in mine for C/G
David

[Gary Binnie]

Pass the sanding disc please nurse!

Well the fillets are history, whizzed them off in about five minutes.

Glass is good underneath and I have uncovered another set of joiner tubes!!

Presume these are the originals, two equal diameter brass tubes, they look well fixed.

Weight is now down to 660g (including the heavy rudder), just a little more sanding to do to tidy up the wing root area.

Yep, the lead might be needed, no clue at this stage.

I will try to contact the original owner of my first CP, he will know more about it having built it. I do remember that it was white all over.

Just off to deliver the dead Gipsy engine to a syndicate partner for storage, I did blog the engine change BTW. He is an aeromodeller and has in excess of 400 unmade kits at his house!! Not been there before so I could be a long time!

Gary

[Gary Binnie]

Just got back from my friends house, we were too busy parking the dead engine to have a look at his models but another kit had just arrived, a KeilKraft Slicker 50, you know its old when the box has rusty staples!!

Back to the CP, just converting David's weights to Metric for reference:

Port wing: 313g

Stbd wing: 319g (noting that the wings have spoilers fitted)

Fuselage/rudder (radio equipped and noseweight/joiner wires): 879g

Stabs: 50g

Total RTF: 1560g

E-mail just in from 'Barry the cutter', lets see what we can do about some new wings.

GB

[Gary Binnie]

The plan that David sent me all the way from California just arrived safe and sound. A thousand thanks Dave, have PM'd you.

I am over the moon!! :D

It has certainly cleared up some mysteries, the plan is much more detailed than I was expecting with a built up wing and spoiler option. Marvellous!!

There is some sweep forward on the wing trailing edge (I thought there was none) and the dihedral angle looks much more than my guessed figure.

A minor mystery is that the fuselage nose is about 1" longer than the plan view, it follows the line exactly everywhere else, maybe it is a mod to reduce noseweight. Not important, just interesting.

Now I have a choice of foam wings or built up wings, doh!!

I have also started another model, double doh!!

Too much to do, not enough time, roll on retirement!

Cheers

Gary

[Gary Binnie]

I just spotted in the photo of the nose above that it says '30 x 53' in the bottom LH corner of the plan which would presumably be the size of the black line frame outlining the plan.

I measured it and I'm getting 28.5 x 50 inches so there has been some shrinkage coming across the Atlantic!!

Handy that Chris Foss put that there originally, it's no problem at all, I can apply a correction factor, all the angles are not affected, bonus!

Happy days :cool:

GB

[prodjx]

His drafting is outstanding as I've seen on my Phase 5 plan's, I think most people can appriciate that. My plan outline also has a dimension. I also enlarged a set of his plan's for the Phase 1+4 that was featured in June 73' issue of Model Airplane News. A sloper of similar dimension to the 5 but has a T-tail with an E-374 airfoil, some day.

[Gary Binnie]

You can't beat a good plan, I can stare at them for hours!

Technical Drawing (or 'TD' as it was known) was a subject that I wished I had taken at school.

Have you got a thread going on the Phase 5? Would like to know more about it.

GB

[prodjx]

Gary go to slope, Phase 5 build thread. Drafting was my best subject in school, went all the way to architecual drafting and got an a+ grade for the year. The only A I ever got. I also did some H.S. level teaching of drafting. My mom was a tracer for Falk co. right out of H.S. too. BTW she also ferried a few P-47 Thunderbolt's that had British marking's according to her diary of 44'. Woop's there I go again yakking about my mom, sorry. Later Dave.

[fudi50]

Hi Garry,
Don't do any alterations of measurements I just checked original plans [yours are a "Blue Plans Service" copy who always asure acuracy! my original plans aalthough a little frayed around the edges have outside dimensions 30"x35" inside lines are as you quote 28? what ever.
Hey! here you are having great weather, way to go!
Tuesday tried to slope fly my C/P opted for prudence wind was blowing 18mph came home intact.
Ex El Britto

[Gary Binnie]

Cheers Dave,

You are right as I measured smaller parts with a vernier and they are all absolutely spot on! The 3" balsa sheet of the tailplanes is exactly 3" on the plan and the spoilers are exactly 1" in chord. Must be the longer nose that threw me.

The weather was good about a fortnight ago but has turned unsettled and showery, good for building.

Yep, 18 mph is a bit much for the CP, the original wing joiner rod is very short, is yours like that?

I do like the Phase 5, I popped in on the thread, maybe this winter!!

Gary

[fudi50]

Hi Garry,
Thought perhaps you woul;d like to view a couple of pictures of my scratch built circa 1940 Hawley Boulus Super Albatross there are only two in exsistance mine is at a local airport livery is all white with blue Niki type logo on fron of fueslage and blue trim edges of flying surfaces we started this project back in Sept 07 it will maiden Oct 17th at Visalia CA best thing is the original owner Earl Menefee 92 years youn is coming to see it
David

[fudi50]

Could not find where I put picture first pictue is not S/B = Super Albatross its me silly bugger

[prodjx]

fudi50, any chance of me getting a copy of those plan's as well?

[Gary Binnie]

Interesting type Dave, not sure that I could fly a glider with a yoke! A friend has a nice Grunau Baby, he is not current in glider flying and I am slightly too heavy to fly it so we both stand and look at it!!

Cheers

Gary

[fudi50]

Hi Garry re rod as plans showrod has to be short to go between top and bottom spars.
Hi prodx? probably got that wrong! Re plans these are not building plans like Chris Foss plans, they are just for want of a better discription plans that give measurements.Our plans which my friend John Raley drew to 1/3 from Earls are not detailed either. I originaly came up with the idea of the d-box using blue foam glued to the maid spars which are 1/8th x 1/2 5 pieces top and bottom then going to 4 and to 3 Ect he used compufoil to draw ribs and we had them laser cut. I built both sets of wings and tailplane, John made the plug I soend three weeks sanding filling sanding to finishe plugs we then made a pair of fuseelage shells John had a friend down south do a faux finish on his fuselage even at a couple of feet it is difficult to tell it is not mahogany sheets, which was the original way the Baby/Super and Senior Albatross models were constructed , back in the 30's you could but the Baby in kit form for I believe $700
FYI if you want to see pictures of my Baby Albaatross go to Sky Bench.com look at the scale models scroll to bottom of page and you will see my very much modiefied model. We did start a type of build log on RCGroups again look for Super Albatross and updates there are a quite a few pictures there.I wish that I had the wherewithall to draw plans it would have made my life over the past year so much easier it was like R&R in the dark,so if you want to build a Baby Albatross 12ft span Skybench do a short kit. If you want to do your own I'll send you a set of 4 pages drawn by Earl Menefee they are like 1/10th scale pretty acurate as far as I know, but then what do I know!
David AKA The Brit

[Gary Binnie]

Thanks Dave, yes, it has to be short because of the dihedral angle, just looks...well, short!!

Did Prodjx mean CP plans I wonder?

Gary

[fudi50]

I guess I was caught up in my own ego damn!
I don't have another set I would have to get them done if interested at my cost
plan $4.50 postage $6.50 postage is a killer!
David

[prodjx]

David, CP plans's was what I meant, do you want to send me a copy and I'll pay for the cost of copying and postage or send you $ and then you send me the plan's? I can go either way. Dave.

[fudi50]

Hi Dave
No problem can get a copy run off and sent to you.
PM me your address and I'll do that right away
David

[prodjx]

Thank's alot fudi, I mounted the wing's on my Phase 5 and it look's great. Dave.

[Gary Binnie]

I was cruising through some classified ads yesterday and saw a 'Chieftain' for sale, the sellers name was familiar, he was actually the designer!

I half built its bigger brother a few years ago, the 'Medicine Man' but the project was shelved, the plan is available for that at: http://www.myhobbystore.com/1116/Colyer-RC1475---Medicine-Man.html

I think the Chieftain plan is still available as well but I can't find the number just now. Ed's note: The plan number is RC1434 but does not seem to be currently listed.

A very nice design with a three piece wing, weighs 3lb 8oz RTF, the Medicine Man comes out at 6lbs I was told.

I couldn't resist and it wasn't very far to drive. Roger (designer) has given up the hobby completely and is selling everything. So I came away with the Chieftain, a JR 2610 Tx (6102 in the States?), another bungee, a hand operated winch (fascinating) and some 66kg monofilament line.

He also gave me a big pile of balsa and some plans, one of them happened to be for the Phase 5, my lucky day!!

We had a good chat about '80s' gliders and I said that I would take care of the Chieftain for him.

Roger described the Chieftain as a 'wooden Centi Phase', as far as my CP goes I am thinking of building the sheeted wings as drawn on the plan but I need to prioritise my multiple projects!!

Need to get to grips with the JR programming, it was Mode 1 but I converted it to Mode 2 fairly easily despite nothing being in the manual about this common job.

Happy days

Gary

[GeeW]

Hi Gary
I take it Mrs B was every bit as excited as you on your latest aquisition? :D I'm still waiting for you to start a build thread on a CF Force Four (despite it being a sloper)? Always wanted one as a teenager,but the slopes of Chobham Common were not really up to it!
Chieftain looks good.

Regards

Gordon

[Gary Binnie]

Oh yes, she was ecstatic as usual!! Am I 'bovvered'? Nah! :D

The Force Four is down the list of things to build, I am really getting in a mess with too many projects. I think this has come about because of my changed work pattern (work for three days, build model aeroplanes for four days etc.)

Anyone know the compatibility situation between JR and Futaba gear? I was told that they are compatible but am reading on here that they are not.

Worst that can happen is to buy some more JR Rx's, the R700 that came with the Chieftain is an ideal size for gliders.

Was going to try and fly tonight but it's quite blustery.

GB

[Gary Binnie]

I think I have answered my own question by reading this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11021977&highlight=JR+Futaba+compatibility#post11021977

It seems that on 35 Mhz (UK) they are compatible (in PPM only) but on 72 Mhz they are not.

If that's the case that is excellent news as I can give all my models names on the Tx now.

GB

[Henk Goosen]

Hi Gary,

I`m using a JR X388 s with Futaba and Multiplex receivers. Works beautifull!!!

HG

[Gary Binnie]

Thanks Henk,

Yes, it looks like I am ok, just need a pair of crystals for my frequency (Ch 62) and I might upgrade the Tx battery as well. Looks like I won't be going to 2.4 just yet!

Just been looking at the Phase 5 plan, it's a cracker!!

Gary

[Gary Binnie]

A question for 'woodie' builders.

I am erring toward building the original plan wings which are balsa sheet top and bottom with 21 1/16th ribs made sandwich style using the root and tip templates provided.

If you make a pack of ribs with the spar notches perpendicular to the root rib then the sweep back of the leading edge of the pack is much greater than the actual sweepback which results in the leading edge of the rib not fitting properly (looking from above the plan).

Hope that you are with me! I'm sure I've seen a method where extra sacrificial wood is placed between the ribs to space the pack out, presumably the ideal is to get the sweepback of the rib pack the same as the actual wing but this would end up with quite a thick pack.

Another method is to sand the pack as normal then unpin the pack and reposition the ribs to get the sweepback then square the noses up.

Any links or tip would be appreciated. I've done a quick search through here.

I may be worrying about this trivial problem too much but I like to get it neat and if there is a 'right' way to do it then why not?!

Cheers

Gary

PS: If I don't answer posts it's because I'm out of the country from 24/6 on holiday (no building for a week, doh!)

[OZPAF]

"Another method is to sand the pack as normal then unpin the pack and reposition the ribs to get the sweepback then square the noses up."

Gary,

This is the method I'd use. Trimming the rib ends to match the plan taper is quick with a long sanding block.
Also If the spar line is swept then it is probably best to not cut the spar notches from the templates but place on the plane and cut with a long straight edge over the plan.
Just another reason for straight spars.

regards

John

[Gary Binnie]

Hi John, that's probably the way to go. In reality only a tiny trim is needed. The spars are at right angles to the fuselage and ribs so that makes life a bit easier.

I'm working on the CP right now in the garden, making a new rudder and digging out the old balsa sternpost, just broke a scalpel blade, doh!

Will post some photos later today.

Gary

[prodjx]

fudi50, recieved the CP plans yesterday in good shape went to F/K and made a copy as I wont dare put a pin hole in the original. Does Criss Foss ever design a bad looking glider, not a chance. If I decide to build it it look's like I'll be doing some carving to make a plug for the fuse. Thank's again for the plan's, I'll do right by them, Dave.

[Gary Binnie]

They're breeding slowly!! It is nice looking isn't it? I'm taking care to get the curves of the tail feathers the same as the plan.

I'm going mad and making some new tailplanes, will post piccies later.

GB

[Gary Binnie]

Nice day again and I had nothing particular to do so I killed some time in the garden making a new rudder and tailplanes.

All straightforward, the new rudder weighs 20g against the old one at 54g, good effort to get it that heavy!! :rolleyes: Only tip I can think of is to chamfer the hinge piece and cut the slots before gluing it together, I have gone for three hinges instead of two shown on the plan.

The old rudder was a slightly different shape to the plan with a broader chord, perhaps it was a replacement for more rudder area, anyone want a purple rudder?!

While I was at that end I dug out the rotten balsa stern post and the weird hinge wires, again the stern post is only supposed to be 1/2" deep, the one I took out was double that, overkill. There were remnants of old Kavan hinges in there as well. Cost: One broken scalpel blade.

The tailplanes are easy as well but you can see CF's mind at work with using separate pieces with different grain directions, clever! They weigh 20g each against the old ones at 30g each, I've got to add the tubes yet but if I use aluminium instead of brass as suggested on the plan that will also save some grammes.

That will be it for a week.

Cheers

Gary

[Gary Binnie]

Just noticed in Pic No 1 above that I got the grain direction wrong, you can see the lines on the plan under the triangular piece. No biggie but annoying, will get it right for the next one when Prodjx starts making fuselages!

I know that the aero balance part of the rudder is not recommended now but I'm building it as it was and I fly very gently (honest!)

I could get some profiles of the fuselage using a gauge, I'm sure Chris would not mind replicas being made. I mentioned to him that people are interested in his older designs.

Could build a wooden fuselage (like I think my first one was) but it would be a challenge to get all the graceful curves.

Late night ponderings, waiting for a Boeing to take me away to the sunshine!

Gary

[Bogcat]

Hi Gary

I was just in the process of trying to find info about the centi phase when I stumbled across this thread. I had an original glass fus one back in the early 80's and as I recall it was too heavy to be any use as a thermal machine but was ace at cross country on the slopes.The balsa version is far better and lighter! I crashed the Centi of course but not before converting it to ailerons which was a vast improvement I would really love a copy of the plan, as I want to build another, call it nostalgia, but it is impossible to get now. I can trade copies of phase 5 and mini phase as I have non used copies of these plans

Bogcat

[Gary Binnie]

Did you have a wooden fuselage then? I am convinced that my first 'Centi' had one. That's not on the plan. This little project is on hold while I am busy with summer full size flying. I've just got a Phase 5 plan, what is a 'Mini Phase'? Not heard of that one.

No copying facilities near me unfortunately but I have several plans that I would like copied just for safety, will have to see where I can get it done.

Cheers and welcome to RC Groups BTW!

Gary

[G Norsworthy]

Here is the Centi-Phase I got from Nelson Montgomery about 20 years ago. this is after I cut the center section out and made it a 1 piece bolt on wing. It eventually folded on launch.

[Gary Binnie]

Great, nice to see other 'Centi's'. Interesting hybrid, the rudder has no aero balance horn as well. Looked good.

GB

[Bogcat]

The Mini Phase was a small version of the original middle phase which had a balsa fusalage. It is quite interesting as it had a solid balsa wing ! It came in 2 versions:- Rudder elevator with 72" span Two sheets of 1/2" balsa for the wings! There was also a cut down 56" span with ailerons. They were sort of the fore runners of modern epp combat planes. I'll see if I can get a copy done for you. Most estate agents know someone who can copy plans in my experience. Bogcat

[Gary Binnie]

Ta, just been eyeing up a large copier at work but I would get shot if I used it.

Sounds interesting, there must be an original 'Middle Phase' as you mention because the current kitted version is a 'Middle Phase 2', still got mine but it's retired now, would win a prize for most battered sloper.

GB

[prodjx]

Bogcat, I can copy my Centi-Phase Plans send them to you if you'll send me a set of the Mini-Phase plan's. I also have a set of plan's that were published in a June 72' issue of Model Airplane News, dimention's are similar to the Phase -5 but a total E-374 wing and a T-tail. Later Dave.

[prodjx]

I sorry it's called the Phase 1+4.

[Bogcat]

Hi Prodjx
That's a very kind offer, I will try and get the Mini Phase plans copied this week. Do you need phase 5 plan while I'm at it? (so to speak!) Bogcat

[Bogcat]

Hi Gary
The original Middle phase had if my memory serves me rightly same plan form for wings and tail as the Mk 2, and a balsa fus with 3/16" sides lined internally with 1/32" ply. Top and bottom was I think 1/2" balsa. This had to be planed and sanded to quite a nice round section. The fus was in my opinion a lot stronger than the current ply sided one, but a bit less streamlined I guess. This is from memory as I built my first Middle phase in 1979! It flew really well once I had corrected the reversed aileron throws!!! Bogcat

[prodjx]

Bogcat, my Phase is almost done, thank's anyway. I'll PM you my pertinent info. Dave.

[Bogcat]

Hi Dave
I've got the info. I'm on the case. My memory is coming back and the Mini Phase was produced as a kit by Micro Mould. I built one and managed to squeeze 3 standard size servos into it (no mini or micro servos in those days!) It was exciting to fly because it tended to tip stall! I always meant to build another with increased cord but never got round to it........ Bogcat (Chris)

[guy mckenzie]

Mini Phases were notorious for their tippies, if slowed down! Weren't the wings skinny and solid balsa?

[Bogcat]

Your quite right Guy the wings were 72" span but 4" cord despite built in wash out, it was a pretty unstable plane but jolly tough all the same and great fun.

[prodjx]

Bocat the Centi-phase plan's are on their way to you, plus a set of plan's of the Phase 1+4. I wonder how many glider's Chris Foss has designed/produced? BTW I too have Dave Hughes classic book on glider flying. There's so much to learn, still. Dave.

[Bogcat]

Prodjx Thanks very much, your right Chris Foss is a brilliant draughtsman. I am trying to draw up plans of the middle phase MK 1 from memory and using the current MK 2. I will let you know how I get on although I suppose this should really be in the slope section! Regards Bogcat

[prodjx]

Bogcat did you recieve the plan's I sent you, I'd like to know you got them, Dave.

[Bogcat]

Hi prodjix
I've got the plans. Sorry I've been on holiday to Ireland for the last 2 weeks very wet! Thank you very much you are a scholar and a gentleman. I'm trying to see how I can construct a wooden fus for the centi phase. I'm thinking along the lines of the phase 6 fus. What do you think?
Bogcat

[prodjx]

Bogcat, glad to hear you got the plan's, there's no reason you couldn't use a P-6 fuse, is it close in length? otherwise I was thinking a lost foam fuse or even a plug to make a molded glass fuse. I just finished a mold of a S. African Petrel, see finally molded Petrel on this Thermal site.

[Bogcat]

I'm not too good with modern materials so I think I will stick to balsa and ply! might have a go at fiberglass cloth skinning on the fus although I find nylon just as strong and a bit flexible, in the event of a sudden landing (crash!)