What's wrong in this picture...

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

So, ... See the PIC first. :rolleyes:

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I have been trying, for the last year, to figure out why my
Z drive have been mismatched. The front drive runs like the
wind, with power to spare. The rear drive has been sluggish, and
requires up to 150 percent more throttle to match the rpm of the
front drive.

I have changed the "drive" the lower part of the system that is
in the water. No change.

This time around I changed the motor, Still this discrepancy exists.
So in trying to balance the drives today perhaps using the
transmitter mixing functions All hell breaks loose.

The rear ESC over heats and cuts out, then returns to function.
but, the rear drive seems to be cutting out, and sputtering.
Then stops steering, I stop the motor the drive straightens out.
I start the motor, and it sputters and stops, and ... Chan Cha Chaaaah!!!

Smoke starts pouring out from the exhaust fan under the pilot house.
OH 5h1t,... I engage the front drive, and the boat does a loop, as I
get the boat straightend out and headed to shore, more smoke
starts pouring out... At this point two other modelers on shore have
noticed the emergency and are panicking. They want to go get the boat,
and are debating who will wade out and grab it,.... I, the person that
was hurriedly trying to sail in, tell them not to jump in and declare that
I will go get the boat...

I wade out and pick it up, and walk it back to the pier and set it down.
I have six screws to loosen, before the top can be opened.
Smoke is still pouring out of the fan outlet.
I loosen the screws, and open the boat, and start unplugging things, and
there is actually a fire burning in the hull. so I blow most of it out, and
pull the ESC. It has taken the brunt of this Holocost. Though some of the
pink foam had managed to catch on fire...

The two other modelers were snapping Pics like crazy, so I will get
some of the pre-op pictures at their convenience.
It was pretty funny how many pics they seemed to be taking,
Must be an "Umi has a problem, and we need evidence" thing...

Actually a pretty exciting day.
:p

[Kmot]

Is (was) that an Mtroniks esc?

I had an Mtroniks esc go up in flames, literally. Like yours here. My Wave Shark was the boat, and flame and smoke damage permeated the inside of the hull like yours is.

I can only surmise that Mtroniks esc's are critical when it comes to rated voltage and current. Exceed it, and they will go out in a ball of fire.

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Yeah, an Mtroniks Mirror25.
I picked it up, because I thought maybe the lack of power was
being caused by the port ESC running "reverse" for the counter
rotating propeller...

Up until today, I have relied on the heat cut outs on ESC...
Probably time to put in fuses... :rolleyes:

[Tom Boere]

Aimee,

What where you doing, aren’t there other ways off making real black smoke coming out off your exhausting….. is it a idea off lining up both engines again and do some amps metering with a direct connect too the battery.

So you can find out what the current is, perhaps that gives a idea what the differents between them is.


Tom Boere

[toesup]

So, ... See the PIC first. :rolleyes:

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Smoke starts pouring out from the exhaust fan under the pilot house.


Umi goes for even more realism... :mad:

I didnt realise the SDM was a Viking burial ship...

What?, you expected sympathy? :p

[drakonis]

wow. :eek: real exhaust smoke. nice touch. :rolleyes:

[Rex R]

ooooo that smell... I understand that denatured alchol will work to help rid your hull of that 'burnt offering' stench...:)
rex

[Footski]

I am no expert, but there does not appear to be much in the way of ventilation......Maybe it just overheated!!

Barry

[norgale]

Spraying laquer on the burn? Hope the fire was out. Ha! WOOOOOSH!
Next fire will burn much brighter. Pete

[Prins Willem]

Umi, It sounds like you eliminated every possibility except the upper unit of the drive. Can you tell if there is a difference in the rolling resistance between the units? I was wondering if there is a way to rig a dyno up to check the drives against each other. A drive motor, amp meter and a consistent source of power is what you would need. The drives would have to be pulled and mounted to a test stand on the bench. You could then check for misaligned shafts or gears, bad bearings, or a slightly oversized shaft binding as it is heating up. To find your gremlin is going to take some serious investigation.

The fire was actually the boat sending you a smoke signal saying "Houston, we have a problem".

[Kmot]

Citrus cleaner was the only thing that worked for me to get rid of about 90% of the soot stain from the ABS.

[graphixman]

oops!

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Barry, the small square hole is an air intake.
The wire leading up and out of the frame leads to a
computer fan that pulls the air through the boat.
If you look at the soot stain, you can see how the
fan was drawing the flames and smoke to the front
of the boat.

The speed controls and both motors each have a
water cooling tube attached, and are fed by a
pump that operates continuously with the fan once
turned on.

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The boat ran great till I wrapped a tow line into the
rear drive at the boat's second Foss cup. Things just
simply went down from there... The boat is cleaned up,
I will try the alcohol and Citris cleaner in the hull to help
clear the smell. The soot stain is staying, I have sprayed
that with clear laquer to make it a permanent detail in the boat.

... :p

[gpzy]

I had a Mtroniks esc in my Coast Guard boat, the flex cable was binding in one of the outboards, caused my esc to go up in smoke.

[drakonis]

now im leary of my viper15 in my wyeforce. but...i have made everything turn freely and there is no bind. so these mtroniks like to burn huh?

[jeno]

Umi,
Sorry for your loss, it happens to the best .
Sounds like it is time to install a Halon system.
Cheers

[fooman2008]

almost sounds like something is still wrapped around the shaft (or jammed in the lower bearings for the z-drive). I am not sure how hard it would be to pull the drive apart and make sure there is nothing in it. I have had stuff happen on R/C Cars before (carpet rave car) with one of the nylon threads from the carpet backing, and it screwed up a steel shaft! Ropes and wheels are always a back combination.
Foo

[ropanach]

Umi:
Sorry to here that your system has been giveing you problems. :eek:

But now you can make it more better, :) starting with new some times is much less work than trying to find an electrical problem, as a head electrican at the plant says. "( If it an't broken I can't fix it )" And now you have a lacored trophie :D

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Disassembly is pretty easy.
We disassembled the drive at the pond, and found nothing wrong with
the propeller or underboat end of the drive. The offending bearing seemed
to be the one that bushes the steering gear at the top of the drive.
I had noticed that the steering was having trouble centering while
the drive was running...

Here are Neal's pics as I slowly take the deck screws out... :p
and open up the boat.

It is the waterproof "potting" That seems to burn... and wiring insulation. :rolleyes:

Drakonis, Fuses at the battery, or right before the ESC probably would have
prevented the melt down... Of course so would've a new drive rather than
replacement pieces... :o
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ready for these? :rolleyes:
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[Kmot]

It's a flamer!! :p

I know the feeling of "hurry-hurry-hurry" when you see the smoke pouring out and you are wondering how expensive and how long it will take to recover from it.

[woodybob]

Gotta love a lady that knows the business end of a screwdriver. :rolleyes:

I always fuse the ESC, seems like cheap insurance for the install.

[drakonis]

so nice shots. you look calm cool and colected...not :rolleyes: workin that screwdriver like a pro. so i have a 15amp esc should i install a 10a or a 15a inline fuse. on the + or - lead.

[MILLERTIME]

Gee Umi,
You had a Memorial Day BBQ and didn’t invite us?
That’s OK; I don’t like BBQ boat anyway.

Don

[mxz70017]

Where both motors running the same direction?Im also not exactly sure If Graupner speed motors are Zero timed either.But If there not an ones going In the opposite direction.You never would get the same power. An rpm's the exact same from both.I too have made radio adjustments to get them close.

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Millertime,

No ribs in this boat...

Mxz70017,
The motors ran fairly matched the first year up until snagging the tow rope.
But I was testing the timing this round, which was why I was adjusting settings
on the transmitter.

Aimee

[knightsy]

Hi Umi
Is it possible that when you snagged at the Foss Cup you bent the vertical drive shaft? That caused both the overloading of the speed controller and, because of the design at the top of the unit, the sticking of the steering? Just a thought.

Regards Trevor Knights

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

knightsy,

The vertical drive shaft was changed out when I changed the
lower, exterior part of the drive. It is one unit, and the housing
cracked as a result of snagging the rope. So at this point, everthing
had been changed out but the bushings.

[Tom Boere]

Wow Aimee,

It looks that you were keeping your head cool, I think that we don't wanne know what you where thinking att that moment.....o sh#$% etc...

By the way, wrong T-Shirt.... :-)


Tom Boere

[Vince Hoffmann]

Wow, that's quite a moment of panic!

I would imagine that a Norse Funeral is not what you had intended this boat for... :D

[Tachikaze]

How can you make the fire look more scale next time?

[pkboo]

Umi, things were really cooking there :( Good job on the keeping cool side! Boo

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

No scale fires... That's as good as it gets..

I probably would have driven the boat in on the front engine if
the other modelers wouldn't have been absolutely freaking out.
Allen was joking later that he and Neal, were just yelling and that
I had actually turned the boat and had it heading in before I
decided to wade out and get it. :o

As I was unscrewing the top, I was counting screws, and trying
to imagine what wires to pull to stop the power, and to be careful
that wires that I would be grabbing were not red hot. As it
occured, I actually unplugged wires "backward" to the issue.
Starting with the output, input then battery.. Should have started
at the battery, but the fire just demanded attention. :rolleyes:

As it turned out, just the ESC, wire insulation, and the "potting" were
the major contributors to the excitement, and it stayed fairly contained
to the location.

:o

[Tachikaze]

Did that black stuff that the Mtronik ESC is encased in burn? melt?

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Did that black stuff that the Mtronik ESC is encased in burn? melt?


"Potting material".... on fire... supected reason for
flaming meltdowns as descibed by Kmot.