Glues

[Accu157]

What are some characteristics to look for in glues? I've been using many of the variety out there, and sometimes I can't help but think epoxy or CA isn't always the answer. Sometimes gorilla glue was the answer. I have not used resin.

How firm, soft, elastic, snappy, glass-like, gum-like, crystal-like, are some glues?

Sometimes I'd break a balsa glue joint held by CA, and wonder what would be less likely to snap.

[vintage1]

Well, there a about a million formulations for glue out there, because there are a million different applications..

For woodwork not exposed to high humidity, white glue (PVA) is probably better than almost anything.

[MCarlton]

Glad to see someone else has a preference for white glue/wood glue/PVA.

It remains slightly flexible when dry, and a joint which can flex a little will always be stronger than one that can't and it wicks into the wood slightly and makes a much stronger joint than something like Epoxy which stays "on the surface" of the wood.

Epoxy is something I only really use for non-wood areas, such as joining foam wings, fixing captive nuts and so on. Trouble with epoxy is that it dries hard and brittle, but doesn't actually "bond" surfaces together all that well, it can be "snapped off" fairly easily.

I use CA quite a lot, but mostly for non load bearing areas, such as cap strips, horn reinforcement plates and such. I also use it to harden wood, for example, thin TE's can be hardened a bit by running a bead of thin CA along them.

[eflightray]

Since using depron, I find I am using a hot glue gun more on other things as well. There also seem to be different glue sticks available for different applications.

Biggest problem I have come across with hot glue, and with a 'balsa cement' I use,....stringing. Where you get these darn 'cobweb' like strings as you pull the glue nozzle away. Also hot glue can give a weight penalty.

As for CA, great stuff, just wish I hadn't become sensitive to it, can give me nasty headaches now, even the so called 'oderless'.

[Accu157]

I suppose someone suggested my question I couldn't put into words. What are the best load bearing glues? When bonding two parts together, oftentimes there is no surface structure that the glue can hook into. Maybe that's what makes fiberglass + resin so great. What glues can still take good loads, but has the micro-saturating ability of CA? Perhaps some sort of CA/Wood glue hybrid?

[K9000wner]

glues Cyanoacrylate and kicker..

Just part of a rant I guess but ive been trying to find some info on
CA and Kickers and nobody would fess up to the kickers
at least two chem guys knew but wouldnt say so here

any base will work as water is a mild base it works
but in excess it degrades the joint
Kicker is an alkyl alcohol one of several with other agents
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate#Patent
go to bottom and read the patent info ...
for sure examples 5 + 6
I too thought kicker was too pricey and only need it like twice a year
so was looking for substitute
note h2o with baking soda is a stronger base and will kick the
CA but at what price? see part 2 lines 13 to 20

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=2768109

In my limited chem I think butanol is a major component if THE agent
required as it seems to fill the (alkyl monohydric alcohol ) slot
as stated in patent part 6 lines 4,5,6,7,

thank you for talking about glues so I can get this out of my head

[ghoti]

I can no longer use CA. It interferes with my breathing.
My now favorites are shoe goo (foam, plastic), gorilla glue, and superphatic. The last is only available from Hobby Lobby and I think made in Germany. It wicks well, cures fast (but not as fast as CA) and I have never seen it fail on wood. Of course, Titebond II is good.

I wonder how widespread do health problems arise with CA? More than you might think I bet? Bill

[Geoffinpdx]

Hmmmm... No mention whatsoever of what was considered "model airplane glue" for a half century - the cellulose glues such as Ambroid, Testors, Duco, or Sigment. Is that because all the kids have given up sniffing MEK and acetone? :rolleyes: It's Titebond and Ambroid for me, but then I'm an old fart, not a chemist or a structural engineer.

I think Gordon Banks did a semi-scientific comparison of adhesives about a year before RC Report folded.

Geoff

[groundfx]

Biggest problem I have come across with hot glue, and with a 'balsa cement' I use,....stringing. Where you get these darn 'cobweb' like strings as you pull the glue nozzle away.
Here's a trick I learned from Martha Stewart (queen of hot glue guns) to avoid the cobwebs; push the tip against the thing you're gluing and then pull away quickly, presto, no more strings.

[mnowell129]

Balsa to balsa joints that you need to sand like sheeting :
http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Adhesives&NameProdHeader=Instrument+makers+glue
Dries fast and very hard, sands well, doesn't clog the sandpaper.

Gluing wood to depron:
http://zap.supergluecorp.com/pt56.html
Seems to handle the plastic better than regular white glue. Not as much mess as gorilla glue.

For a sticky RTV like glue that stays flexible :
http://www.artbeads.com/e6000.html

[Ralph Walton]

Aliphatic carpenters glue for wood. Looks like PVA but you can sand it. Great for balsa.

Gorilla glue is excellent but the foaming reaction can be unpredictable. For example in a hot dry room there's often marginal moisture to "kick" it into foaming. My favourite glue for spars into epp.

My favourite method is to mix a couple of drops with the gorilla in a plastic cup and stirr for not more than 4 seconds with a broken propellor. Foaming is much more consistant.

30 min epoxy has its uses too good for urgent fiberglass cloth jobs, and great as a high strength glue.

Plus various grades of CA

Shoo goo/ goop is great for flexible gluing, fastening servos(it can be melted with toluene or similar later) Tip plates onto flying wings

[KenSt]

A past trip to my local craft store turned up a chart. It lists many glues from a number of craft glue vendors such as Aleens, Elmers, beacon, etc... It also lists materials such as wood, foam, glass, leather, etc... As the horizontal glue names cross the vertical material names there is a black dot indicating if it is compatible. It would be great if there was an equal chart in the hobby industry.

In my mind, Cya revolutionized our hobby because of its combination of cure speed, penetration, and strength with balsa wood. Each material combination has its "best" glue and there are many choices that do equally as well. As an example, I have switched to building with foam so I like to tack with dots of low temp hot melt and finish with Aleens Quick dry tacky glue. While other prefer Foam friendly Cya. for some joints and Urethane foamers for others. Balsa guys probably use Cya. more than anything else.

Yes, a chart would certainly help. I will have to "google" this.

[KenSt]

http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploadedImages/articles/issues/2003-06-01/198-088-02tab.jpg

[Aphorism's Dream]

Here is the mother lode of wood info.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/search/search_action.php
The Wood handbook is here down loadable by chapter. Look for: RWU4723 listings.
I'll attach several pertinent sections.

[Altocirrus]

By far the best glue I've ever used on wood or foam is the Bison 'Universal Hobby' glue:

http://www.bison.net/upload/af993e0fc2c7dd2dc07b76.gif

Dried quickly but left you with time to position parts, left a virtually invisible join and was stiff but not brittle. I've never had a join fail with this stuff.

The snag is, I haven't seen it around for years. If you find some, definitely buy it and let me know where you got it from ;)

[Roj]

Remember a glue called stabilit-express from Graupner?
Found it excellent for almost anything. Even ABS plastic.
But I can't seem to find it anymore.
Does anyone know what type of glue it was?

[MCarlton]

Stabilit Express was a two part resin glue, with a powder hardener rather than a liquid.

Its still out there, but is a bit pricey at around £17 (AU$30) for 80g.

It is brilliant, and will glue ABS, as I remember, it was the recommended glue in the old Robbe Focus I had.

Strongest glue I have ever used though

Mind, the strongest "glue" is one from nature, made by Caulobacter crescentus bacteria, which is apparently around 4 times stronger than any manufactured glue.

http://www.livescience.com/animals/060410_nature_glue.html

http://videos.howstuffworks.com/national-science-foundation/681-strongest-glue-that-nature-offers-video.htm

[KenSt]

Here's one I saw at my local craft stores and Wal-Mart this weekend. Has anybody tried this one?

http://www.eclecticproducts.com/ecoglue/index.htm

They claim it is stronger than other white glues and tested "superior" to urethanes.

[groundfx]

Here's one I saw at my local craft stores and Wal-Mart this weekend. Has anybody tried this one?

http://www.eclecticproducts.com/ecoglue/index.htm

They claim it is stronger than other white glues and tested "superior" to urethanes.
Looks like a PVA glue similar to Weldbond. http://www.franktross.com/weldbond.asp Weldbond is probably cheaper (comes in bigger sizes) and it's been around forever and is proven.

But it should work okay, the other slight problem with PVA glues is that some can be rubbery when dry which can make sanding an issue if that matters.

[KenSt]

Thanks for the link Fx! They have model building tips under hobbies and crafts! I've been happily using Aleen's quick dry tacky glue for my foamie's. I "spot weld" with low temp hot glue, then fill in the rest with tacky glue. The stronger part caught my attention with the Eco stuff and thought maybe somebody had already tried it. Rubbery and foam is a good match, but sanding is a little annoying. I Don't like the urethane's "foaminess" but wanted something as strong.

[reinking]

Altocirrus,

A ten-second Google search produced this link for Bison glue-

<http://www.choiceful.com/choiceful-id-17270-Bison-Universal-Clear-Adhesive-25ml.html>

reinking

[mnowell129]

If you want a PVA glue that dries hard and sandable this is excellent:
http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Adhesives&NameProdHeader=Instrument+makers+glue

Water based, dries fast.