Ziroli Douglas C-47 (Buzz Buggy)

[Ed Couch]

About 12 years ago a gentlemen was on a long final at one of our local scale contest or Master qualifier when a down glitch hit his vehicle just prior to touchdown. Two G-38 engines were ejected from the big bird, the nose damaged, gear bent etc. All this time the big Gooney Bird has been sitting in a cold dark bedroom waiting patently for someone to drag her big bad #$@ out of the dark and put a little life into her tired old bones.

Open your big mouth sometimes and you sure can get into trouble and I did Monday night. I've always wanted to build the big Ziroli bird but never had time. A friend and I were talking about it when he remembered another friend of his in Garland had a C-47 in his bedroom. I even remembered the contest and events leading up to its low level crash just before touchdown. I told Bill that I would like to see it if available and damn if it didn't show up at our Tuesday afternoon flight session. I helped remove it from his van and took a hard long look. Grabbed a pen and wrote out a check which turned out to be more than he had wanted but hell I had already wrote out the check and was in a little shock at the size of the beast so I told him thanks and keep the change.

Hundreds of man hours have been saved by purchasing the big plane as it is still solid. I ordered a new nose and cowls from Nick that night. I planned on cutting the damaged portions out at the panel lines and graft the new fiberglass components in place. There are a few stress fractures in the skin and they will be easily fixed. The only time consumming item will be the rebuild of the nacelles but I have most of the wood that was torn out and most of that will fit back in nicely. The new cowls are on their way as well to cover up the new 80 by 85 mm Turnigy motors I plan on installing. She will be flying with a set of 10/3700 Rhino packs in a 4-4-2 configuration for each nacelle. One receiver will be taking care of the motors and all flight controls in the wing while a second unit will handle all flight controls in the tail. Only a 14 gauge set of power wires will be running from the batteries in the nose to power up the flight controls. It will make things much simpler and more reliable than using a single receiver and miles of cable running through the fuselage. The landing gears will be fixed for now but if all proves out as expected retracts will be added at a later date. I have everything I need to pull the build off in a couple of weeks so lets see what happens. Any comments appreciated. ed

[Peter M]

WOW!
Ed, You don't do things by halves! :D
I'm looking forward to following your progress and knowing what you actually said to your wife when you bought it home! (Or more to the point, what she actually said to you!)

Regards
Peter

[Wilit run? 353]

Wow. that looks a big task. where can i find info on the 8085 turnigy?

are you going to repaint the C47

[drksyd]

Nice big project. Don't know why but I like the DC-3/C-47's.

[Ed Couch]

Guys

Betty helped me assemble the big bird yesterday for the photos. There is a new car in the drive, money in the bank and we live in a new house, and our grand daughters are always over so grand ma is happy. We've been married a long time and she has put up with everything I do and laughs at most. In all these years we have honestly never raised our voice to one another. Great lady!!

The information on the Turnigy motors are as follows: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=200&curPage=2&v=&sortlist= . These have proven excellent motors although the 80 by 100 motors I use in my large fighters have to have the bearings changed out before running. Not a big deal, but a pain any way.

As stated earlier, I do not plan on a total repaint except for a dull cote to be added prior to flight. The damaged panels will be taped off and paint only applied to those areas that need it. Save time and keep the theme of the original paint in tack. I told the original owner that he could be there for its next flight and he was grinning ear to ear when he left. He is now in his mid seventies and doesn't presue to scale meets anymore. ed

[LBJ]

Thanks for the pics. Saves me a drive-over I cannot make right now!

Coolness.

I might not repaint anythng but the damaged areas, looks like a war-weary bird that way.

Of course, later you could make it an EC-47 spy plane with the antennas and black radar nose dome and Vietnam camo scheme. Or Puff. Should look fine like it is though.

The flying is what will be nice, no mater the paint.

LBJ

[oldcoot88]

Gonna love to follow the progress on this one, along with the neighboring B-36 build saga of DAG's. Some years ago, i saw a video of a big glo powered C-47 (it might have been a Ziroli model same as this one), and it went in during base leg turn to final due to tip stall. Seems the tapered wing calls for judicious management of airspeed in DC-3/C-47 models of this size/weight.
Bill(oc88)

[Wind_of_Change]

Ed, congratulations on finding such a great plane in such good condition. I'm really looking forward to seeing it electric powered. Best of luck with the reconstruction effort!

Don't forget to take pics and video of the maiden!

Todd

[Ed Couch]

I've flown for the last eight days and finally decided to stay at home for a couple of days and work on the beast. All the formers and replacement bulkheads are cut, motor mounts holes are drilled and blindnuts installed. I've also trial fitted all the remaining wood parts that were with the vehicle when I purchased her. Most everything will fit back with minimal rework although a bit of planking will be required plus putting in hatches for the batteries. The parts ordered from Ziroli arrived a few minutes ago so molding in the nose should not take more than a day in itself. Goals!!

I've beat myself up on the radio installation and decided to go with two receivers with one being located in the tail and the other in the wing itself to keep cabling to a minimum. The only thing common to the two units will be a 4700 6 volt power package in the nose powering the units via a 14 gauge power cable to both the wing and tail. This is how I handle my 20 foot outboor airships and I have never had a problem with the DX-7 radio in this configuration. NCIS is on now so I'll take a break for a while and watch Gibbs and Abby do their things. Got a thing for Ziva!!

Tomorrows plan is to add all the bulkheads and the firwalls. Test mount the batteries and make sure thing fit. Also if possible, start a little sanding and maybe a few hours out at the field with my FW-190A. It needs a little tender loving care itself as it has been a few month since it was put back on ceiling. I love the retirement end of the stick.

[Ed Couch]

This morning proved bright and shiney with a possibility of rain so I set my mind to working in the shop. Grabbed my first cup of coffee and Skippy peanut butter toast and headed for the shop about 0730. After almost 10 hours of continous work I called it a halt as I'm tired of biting the damn glue from my fingers. I got a lot of work done and hope to finish with the wood work on the nacelles by Friday as I have a standing date on Thursday to fly indoor rubber at a local gym and then maybe off to the field for a few hours as I got caught up in the moment today and didn't make it to the field. I've got to get my priorities straight.

Anyway, I managed to get everything back in alignment and started planking of the nacelles. Figured I might as well mount the spare motor to see what it would look like as well. Took about 6 dollars of hardware from the local Ace store to mount both motors. Looks like something from my Maytag for sure. Once I finish on the planking I'll start with the damage to the fuselage. I need to get the gear to a friend tomorrow for straighting as the after gear bar is bent on both gears. May be able to repair or replace if I'm not lucky.
Another day and a good time had by my Pom and I in the shop. ed

[Wind_of_Change]

That's looking great Ed, you're going to have that thing flying in no time at the rate you're going.

Seriously, I cannot wait to see your maiden. Did I mention that it would be really really sweet if you got video of that? ;)

Sure would be sweet! :D

[Sammy70]

Wow, you guys and your giant scale planes really amaze me. Thanks for taking the time to post all the pics and write about the details. You must be blessed with a beautiful flying field to fly birds this big :) Keep up the great work and keep posting so that some of us can live vicariously through you Ed!!


Sam

[Ed Couch]

Sam

My field is over 550 feet of perfectfly manicured Bermuda grass. It is mowed at least twice a week and watered when needed. We actually use a gang of 5 reel type fairway mowers just for the runway. I've been a member almost since day one of the club. It is only five minutes away from the house. We are lucky in having drink machines, water, and electricity avaliable as well. Over 250 members and any good day will have 25 plus flyers all day long even on a Monday and Tuesday. Its a hoot and a great bunch of flyers. Take a look http://www.flygsw.org/ . More Friday or Saturday afternoon. ed

[Ed Couch]

It's been a couple of days but I have an excuse, I've been flying! I finished the planking of the nacelles this morning and finished a very rough sanding of the components. Not too bad considering the years since I've last planked an aircraft. About 16 years or more I think, now I know why I like ARFs. It took about 20 actual working hours to complete over the last week. The weather around here has been beautiful and I've been flying whenever I can. Now it time to do a final sanding and get out the new bottle of Z Poxy and 1 ounce fiberglass cloth and get things wrapped and in the primer stage. Oh Yeah, don't forget a can of bondo as I ain't perfect and its weight forward if need be. Motors arriving this week and props are right behind them. I'll start on fuselage in a week or so and hopefully have things ready for late June.

Have a great day, I'm headed to the field. ed :)

[old p47]

Looks like the repair work is perfect from here. Would have loved to see how you got it back to gether on a repair video.
Mike

[oldcoot88]

Ooo. Nice work, Ed. Makes you look like Stradivari building a fiddle. :D Looking forward to the maiden and eventual retracts. :cool:

[Coastwatcher]

very cool repair job . Keep the pics and progress comming. Very interesting thread. :)

[Ed Couch]

I spent the better part of the day sanding, sanding and more sanding of the wing center section. I finally decided I could not do more until I had a coat of primer on the nacelles. Now I can see the blemishes that need a little bit of glazing putty. I had picked up a can of Bondo but it would seem I will not be needing it at this time. Things come out pretty good overall. Now she sets in the shop drying over night. Then it's back to the sanding blocks for more finish work.

In the meantime, I installed a new set of Robart retracts into my big Hanger 9 P-51D. I just finished up the door assemblies and everything looks nice here also. Now I can keep my gears up and locked in flight. They were actually a drop in and it only took a couple of hours for the installation. The old mechanical ones would never lock properly in the up position and did not have offset struts as the full size one did.

Once the nacelles are finished drying, I'll mold and smooth out the transition area of the wing and nacelles. just make things pretty and then get ready for paint. I'll start also the repair of one wing which is just gluing the top sheet back on under pressure and cleaning up the joint. Nothing big and it will take only a couple of hours. The wing has to be completely rewired and that will take the better part of a day. All cables will be replaced for the motor, flaps, and ailerons. With that done it's on to the fuselage which will be started later in week. I was headed to Small Steps in Arkansas this Thursday but I may stay at the house and get ready for a Masters Qualification the following weekend. I need to fly a little sometimes this week as well. It's about time to call it a day but tomorrow morning it's one more time into the breach with coffee and toast in hand. ed

[Ed Couch]

Another day in the shop and all seems to be heading in the right direction. Sanded and primed, sanded and primed, filled, sanded and primed and finally I quit. The nacelles are about ready for color, then I remembered I still have to cut a hatch in the top, damn! Now it's time to get out a new Zona saw and see what kind of trouble I can get into. It's not all thought through but I've got a couple of ideas before the first cut is made. It looks like the batteries will stand vertically just aft of the firewall and remain clear of the gear area. Here is hoping.

The left wing was damaged slightly in the crash and took only a few minutes to repair the glue joints with alphetic resin. After that its time to clean things up with a little glazing compound and get the area ready for repaint. I've also mounted new servo's for the ailerons in both wings. I've still got to run new aileron leads into the wings but I think there are a couple of 18 inch ones in my parts box for the task. Once the wings are complete we will start on the fuselage dings and nose rebuild. So far its been fun but remind me later why I'm still sanding.

ed :)

[drksyd]

Great job on the nacelles Ed, almost there.

[Ed Couch]

It's been a couple of days now since my last post and a little more work has been completed on the rebuild. Servos for the elevators and rudders have either been replaced or verified functional. All cables in aft end of vehicle have been replaced or shortened to allow the second receiver to be installed in the tail. All internal cabling has been removed from fuselage and wing. The damaged wing has been repaired and painted. New servos have been added plus new cables installed in each panel. The two panels are now tested and ready for flight. The nacelles are completed and have been painted using white and ivory (yellow white) Krylon paint. I will hold off on the Olive Drab as I'm having trouble finding anything close to what I have on the vehicle now. The new nose has been cut and fitted to the forward fuselage and will be glued on tomorrow afternoon or later in week. This should take about half of one day to do. Plus 4 to 6 hours to get it ready for prime. Both receivers are mated and ready for installation. I need to run the cables in the wings for the ailerons and the motor ESC's. Still waiting gear but that should be available once friend gets back from Small Steps Monday. I'm shooting for the 11th of July or if possible the end of July. So far I have over 60 man hours in the rebuild and near $1200 dollars in materials (including airframe) to complete the project. Not to bad though for such a big airframe. ed

[Tom Hunt]

Looking great Ed!

I commend you for not only the repair, but tackling the overall mass of a Ziroli model e-conversion!

All the best.

I await first re-flight!

Tom

[Ed Couch]

Thanks Tom and others. The major painting of the center section is completed and the panel lines have all been drawn. I still have to graft the nose back together but have held off to the last on this due to the wiring harness installation for the radios. I am using a 5 cell 4200 mil nickle metal pack for the radios (2 receivers) and servos. I picked up the gear this morning after a friend rebuilt them for me. Basically a few bends here, a wrap there and a little soldering and I'm ready for the installation of the gear. I finally broke down and went to the auto paint store with one of the old cowls and ask them to mix me some damn paint that would match. I had already spent near 50 dollars on various model paint colors trying to match the olive drab on the vehicle. It didn't happen and the more I tried the worse it got. It took them 2 days to make the match by hand but they finally got it on the nose. It took only 10 teaspoons of paint and matching thinner with my old air brush and it's about all done except for th cowls. It cost me 56 dollars for the pint of paint and thinner but it was worth every penny to me. I'll take more pictures tomorrow after I finish up the cowls and mount the motors. I'm about 10 days out now so things have come along quite well. See ya! ed

[KOMET 44]

Ed,Rebuild is looking great.I wish you sucsess on your test flight.
KOMET44

[Ed Couch]

Got another day of work in today to the tune of over 8 hours in the shop. Rained like stink almost all day long so I can't grip too much. Finished the installation of the radio and checked out both receivers and they work fine together with a bunch of servos singing their merry tunes. No problem there. Decided to use single switch and single battery source to simplify everything. No problems expected. Mounted the cowling L-brackets I picked up from the hardware store and picked up a handfull of speed nuts to mount the cowling with. This beats glueing block onto the brackets or soldering blind nuts to the brackets which is a pain in the backside if there ever was one. Let the local auto store help out with the mounting of things in the future. I'll pick up a few 10/24 nylon screws tomorrow morning to mount the cowls with. Simple. Motors had already been fitted so it was no problem mounting the props on the motors with the cowls in place. I used a 1/4 inch square stick to get the relief from the cowl to the prop and then marked and drilled the holes for the screws. Nice and easy. Props are three bladed 17/8 which I plan on mounting on my big Gee Bee and testing the amperage to see if the motor is loading correctly at both 8 cell and 10 cell per motors. I still have to finish mounting the nose next week as I have to start getting ready for a Scale contest this Friday and Saturday.

I plan on flying one of three birds. My P-51B Mustang, P6-E Hawk, or the GeeBee Sporster. All are electric so I don't figure on having any trouble with any of the three. All outstanding flyers.

Early next week I plan on putting her on the gear and test running the motors to see how things hold up. I'll have LBJ (Lane Crabtree) come out and do a once over plus verify my balance prior to going to field. If all goes well I'll call the photographer and set a date for it's rebirth. From there we will see. ed

[Ed Couch]

DC-3 aside. Which one of these three birds should I be flying this week for the scale contest? I fly only in Sportsman scale anymore so it's only for fun and bragging rights. Comments appreciated and then it's back to the big bird Monday. ed

[drksyd]

Ed
All three look great but the P6 is a beauty. I like the Sig P-51B but went with the TF P-51D myself.

The DC-3 is looking great! The nacelles blend in perfectly and looks like it's never been touch with the paint applied. Sorry if I missed it, but are you going to make your new nose a hatch to access the batts?

[Ed Couch]

The nose will be molded into the whole thing. I don't plan on ever going back into it again. That is why I'm taking the time to do it right. The connections are shrink wrapped where they can never be pulled apart. Just old habits I guess. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

Flight batteries are mounted in 1 bulkhead aft of the firewall vertically. They will be installed through the wheel well and held in place with velcro straps. I just could not cut hatches in the top of the nacelles. I know I will regret it later but as Lane told me "You ain't going to be flying it every fifteen minutes" and he promised to help me flip it over each time I need to change the batteries out. It may take a chain gang to move her around though.

The P-51B model has always beat out the D for me. It was a no brainer and it has proved a much better flyer as well. She is a rocket on eight cells at well over a hundred miles an hour when the hammer is down and you are past the stops. All rolls and loops are like it's on rails and landings with full flaps are also excellent. Over the last 45 years I have flown many but only two seem to stand out to me and thats been the Sig bird and also the big Hanger 9 Stang which you see photos of above. If it flies I love it wheather its a rubber powered Jetco C or one of my rip snorting big electrics its all the same to me. It is simply the joy of flight. ed :)

[Ed Couch]

Finished up the center section as far as gear, paint, and radio goes these last few days. Fitted and glued the nose cap on and screwed that up but that's another story yet to come. Ain't bad, just needs a little extra work due to a pot of epoxy and micro balloons setting up in five minutes instead of thirty. A friend was over after the contest today and we were talking about the C-47 and I commented that I had not mounted the center section of the big bird to the fuselage yet. Lights flashing, got a friend over, so what the hell. Now she has her gear under her and center section mounted, why not flip her over and take a look. Damn it is sure starting to look like a C-47 again after 14 years sitting in a musty old bedroom. Bill and I flipped her over on her gear and set her down in the middle of the drive sans her wing. Took the place of wife's little Santa Fe and looked better too! Oh hell, lets push it out in the front yard and mount the wings and see what we have. Presto, change oh, a Gooney Bird in the front yard. Stood back and admired the work, not bad, not bad at all. I think I'll keep her. I've still got to work and rework the nose but that's just a day with a sanding block and pot of Bondo to make things fit again. Then a little paint here and there and we will have all the red X's signed off for first flight. Let's shoot for the weekend and see what happens. A few pictures attached but I ain't saying I'm done, just getting there though. ed

[LBJ]

Schweeeet! That guy you bought it from will either be tickled pink or OD Green with envy to see that. Very nice. LBJ

[mpope1]

Nice! Cant wait to see her fly...

[Coastwatcher]

Schweeeet! That guy you bought it from will either be tickled pink or OD Green with envy to see that. Very nice. LBJ


DITTO THAT !!!!
TOTALLY ROCKS OUT. :D

[Sammy70]

Excellent work Ed, looks like a million bucks from here!

So how old of an airframe is it exactly?

[Ed Couch]

Thank you gentlemen for the comments. As for the actual age, I think it is somewhere between 13 and 15 years old. I was able to do a little sanding and shaping of the nose cap this afternoon as I had only a little time to work in the shop and it was hot to boot. I have to see a couple of clients first thing in the morning (I fly RC airships for my spending money) and won't be back home to work until late tomorrow evening where hopefully it will have cooled off a little. I'm hoping for motor run up later in the week but honestly I'm not in a hurry and will probably have to build a special jig to do the weight and balance. LBJ has the welding equipment and offered his assistance in building a balancing jig due to the expected weight of over 50 pounds. As stated earlier I still have a number of red X's that have to be cleared before it will be released for check flight. ed

Oh Yeah. I forgot to say I lucked out this weekend and placed 2nd in Sportsman Class at our Master Scale Qualifier. I flew the P-6E Curtis Hawk and it flew beautifully. Makes this old man look good. My top two flights were a 95 and a 98 so I felt pretty good when the two day meet was over. I used to fly Expert for years but I have a lot more fun now just for the bragging right. There was only a tenth of a point between first and second place. He got the radio and I a tube of glue. What can you say!

[Ed Couch]

Finished rework of the fuselage this morning and gave it a final coat of matt finish to blend in all the work that was done. Nose came out better than expected, not perfect but I can live with it. I still may do a little work on the logo on the sides of the bird but I did manage to save them. The painting stage is over now it's time to get everything else done and that will take at least two or three days.

I've got my two grand daughters at the house today so I figured we might go over to the American Airlines musceam (sp) and take a look around. The girls first time out and then maybe by the club field to fly a kite a while as its over 94 degrees outside now.

One more task complete.

ed

[Ed Couch]

All but two of the X's are signed off holding the bird on the ground. Other than that it's ready for flight. I still have weight and balance to perform but I bet I'm pretty close with the big motors and two sets of 10/3700 mil batteries on board. There is also a substained high power motor run of at least 2 minutes. I sure don't need a dead motor to contend with as that would be damn right embarrassing although it also happens to electrics as well. I may drag it out to the field for the run ups and to take a few pictures prior to it's return to the sky. Maybe next week if all goes well. That's about it for now. ed

[Sammy70]

Thanks for the updates, can't wait to see some pics of her back in the sky :)

[Ed Couch]

The last two items on the board have been signed off. Lane (LBJ) and I checked the C/G and it turned out a little nose heavy but still satisfactory for first flight. Motors run up very nicely and both are pulling approximately 72 to 75 amps at full tilt on 10 cells. Lane was hanging on with both hands, teeth gritted and hair flying. Should work out ok. All controls were checked and double checked and damn if the rudder was not going the wrong way. Thanks for another set of eyes. I had to rebind the aft receiver twice but I've had to do that before. It will be double checked prior to the initial flight. Now its time to start making phone calls to get everybody lined up. What a production. I'd much rather a couple of us would just head out one morning and do the deed but it would seem it is not in the cards. Wish me luck and pardon the quality of these last shots. It was hotter than heck outside and some of the shots just did not work. Can't wait to get Ronnie Polk behind the lens of his camera as that boy is plume good taking great photos.

Now it's time to get the little F-104 finished. It still likes the paint and final assembly. Ed :)

[LBJ]

Ed, I got to thinkin on the way home. It would actually be easier to change batts by pulling the wings off and rolling the fuse over vs wings on. Two guys vs 4 or 5. If you can get those spars where they will glide in and out of their holes it would be a snap. LBJ

Oh yes, it pulled about 90 percent as hard as the big Mustang with the 80-100 Turnigy. Not bad for all that wing. You won't need that to get flying, but nice for war reserve power. Should fly nicely on 50 percent power.

[Ed Couch]

Might be an idea. I brushed them out this afternoon and will trial fit tomorrow. We can give it a try if you come back this way anytime soon.

Also remember you were holding onto a 50 pound aircraft and not some puny 20 pound Stang. It should feel a little different. I guess we need to put a scale on here and check static thrust.

It looks like Wednesday morning will be the first attempt as Ronnie, Lex and Sparky are going to join in with camera, video, and moral support. Plan on spending the morning flying as all will be packing something to play with.

I'll have my big Tony and the P-51B with me to limber up on. See ya there.

ed

[drksyd]

Looks great Ed. Look forward to seeing video of it's re-maiden.

[Wind_of_Change]

Wow, I can't believe how quickly you pulled that off! Amazing work.

I really hope your maiden goes without a hitch!

[navee8or]

ed couch. good day to you sir. I have recently viewed your thread on this wonderful example of aviation history. I couldn't help but notice the motors you are using and if I may I would appreciate if you could say how it was to deal with hobby city and how quick is their service. The reason I am asking is I am on a new project and it is my first electric build . I saw an add for this place and it stirred my interest.Part of the history of the DC3 invovles new england where I'm from.Up until the mid 1990's the DC3 with the most air time of all DC3's was flown by Cape Cod airlines, in fact it has way more time on it than the one in the smithstonian. That's something I thought you might want to know. By the way, great restoration and rebuild. I can't wait to see the video of here where she belongs. navee8or

[Sammy70]

Fasten your seatbelt and have a great flight Ed!! :)

[Ed Couch]

Navee - Hobby City has been outstanding to work with. The product line for most part is excellent with very little problems. Normal service to my house is 4 to 5 working days. I can't get that out of houses in the US most of the time. I never back order anything. If there is not a positive quantity I don't order and they do ask. The Zippy line especially the Rhino batteries have been excellent and I use the blue Zippy in my commerical airships as well.

Thanks guys for the good wishes. I spent the day going over everything again and waiting for Wednesday morning to come around. My big Mustang had a bad landing and blew out the gear so its putting little pieces of wood back together. Now I need a little bit of sanding and we will be ready again. Happy Fathers day to all gents. ed

[LBJ]

navee08or

After you've made a few orders with China Hobby, you get a little discount thrown your way. Usually 5 or 6 bucks that you can use to defray you total costs. Not much, but better than nothing. Be sure to create an account and always sign in so it will show up before you place your order. There are two shipping options with them; expensive and more expensive! But, you still save a lot of $$ over buying it stateside even with shipping charges added. If you want to save some money, choose the least expensive option and you will get your stuff in two weeks tops. And, might as well make it worth the shipping $$$ and get some of the things you are going to always use like servo extensions, y cables, servos, pilot figures, and the like. I haven't had any trouble with them yet and have made about a half dozen orders. LBJ.

[rogerchr]

... My big Mustang had a bad landing and blew out the gear so its putting little pieces of wood back together. Now I need a little bit of sanding and we will be ready again. Happy Fathers day to all gents. ed

Is that the H9 one? I just got one and am trying to decide whether to upgrade the gear to Sierra or Shindin like I did with my H9 P-47 150. A fellow I fly with had nothing but trouble with his P-47 stock gear. I'm not saying that upgraded gear will save us from gopher holes and landing screw ups I'm just wondering if using those H9 servo operated gear make any sense on airplanes that size.

[Ed Couch]

Roger the Mustang in question is the Hanger 9 model as stated earlier in this threat. I dropped in a set of Robarts and they worked well. No real problems except having to enlarge the holes due to pattern from original gear a fraction different. Taking the holes next drill size larger solved the problem. Lay in some fiberglass cloth and resin prior to the gear installation as this area needs to be beefed up a little. A few pieces of triangluar stock will also help a bunch as well. As to which gear is the best, you will have to decide. I went with Robart but others have chosen others. Your call there.

I also agree with Lane on the Hobby City comments. ed

[RiBell]

Very cool.
Just found this thread.
Nice job on the repairs
I've got a set of Ziroli DC-3 plans and would love to build one some day.
Looking forward to flight reports.
Rick

[dawnron1]

I hope Ed doesn't mind, but here are some photos I took at the maiden this morning. She flew great! I'll let Ed give the flight report, but he is one proud papa!

Ronnie

Preflight check
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3662788886_16e35be20a_o.jpg

Lots of power!!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3408/3662789366_18f78790ff_b.jpg

Liftoff!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2598/3662788748_de42366ac9_o.jpg

Ed at the sticks...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3662789444_70d36eec8a_o.jpg

Climbing outhttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3375/3662788664_cf4705fce5_o.jpg

Beautiful in the air
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3578/3662788544_ce1e50321c_o.jpg

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Landing!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3339/3661988127_41fe0d8e63_o.jpg

[LBJ]

Ronnie, those pics are just great! Hard to imagine any better pics. LBJ

[Sammy70]

Wow, incredible plane and even more incredible PICTURES!@! Excellent job to all involved :D

[Ed Couch]

I just came in from the field and thought I would fill everyone in on the flight attempt but you guys beat me to it. Ronnie, the photos are fantastic. Thanks so much for being there. There were over a dozen folks show up for the 0800 test flight. I arrived with my Mackie D sack at 0715 and had breakfast at the field. Several of the folks showed up and helped me unload the bird and we started the assembly which took about 20 minutes or so to complete. Preflight was done and I shut her off and took a break as it was hot and humid and I'm getting a little long in the tooth. After a short break and a few lies or two Gastone pushed her out to the line and we did another control check just to make sure everything worked in the right direction. Gastone grabbed the tail and hung on for dear life as I went to full power. The pictures above show him with eyes closed, tye flying and a nashing of the teeth as he holds on. Ronnie did himself proud catching the shot. Instead of taxiing to the end of the runway and wasting the power Gastone pushed her down the end of the runway and swung her into the wind for me.

No wind, lucky me. The photographers and video people spread out along the runway (both sides) and Lane was asked to call for me as we have flown together for almost 30 years now and I trust his judgement. The others of the crew stepped back from the line and give us room to work. Well, now was the time of truth. I had checked everything including the C/G and she was nose heavy, the motors run well, controls were right, what did I forget?
Nothing, called ready to the cameramen and crew and started the takeoff roll. She started to roll dead center of the runway, holding a little right rudder the tail came up on her own and she was building speed rapidly. She lifted off perfectly on her own and leveled off. Speed was increasing and she was having no problems with power so I gently nudged her with a little up and she headed up beautifully. I initiated a 180 degree turn staying in the pattern and added a couple of clicks of up. Now she is perfect, flying straight and level at about 125 feet agl. Rolled left towards the runway and hit full power as I lined up on the centerline. She dropped her nose and built up a little extra speed and I let her have her head at about 10 feet and damned if she did not bobble or roll just flew straight and level the full length of the field. Nothing wrong with the way she flew. I made about a half dozen passes down the runway and hopefully the video will show what we were doing as Ronnie has done so beautifully above. Lane was watching the time and I told him lets make the flight about 3 minutes long. I was coming down the runway at the 2.5 minute mark so on his call I pitched up and headed crosswind for the landing. Down wind I dropped 20 degrees flap and noticed no nose pitch. Base leg was a little early but I went ahead and started the flaps down to 45 degrees. About that time I started the roll to final and I got a little balloon as I rolled out. Throttled back a little more and let the nose drop on through. She headed down and everything looked good but as I rounded out the elevator just played out at the last second (all rates were in low) as I had pulled the power back a little to far and did not get it back in as I normally do. A 50 pound aircraft does not bounce very well. The right main gear touched down with the aircraft in a slight yaw and it spread the main and allowed the axle to pull out of the main gear housing. The tire/wheel seperated the vehicle and the strut assembly doug into the wet field. The video will show the whole thing. It was not my best landing but other than a 45 dollar prop and a bent gear she was ok.

Would I do it again, not this week but next week maybe. It took me over an hour to settle down. When I recharged the battery packs they only used 1900 or so mils of power. The flight was exactly 3 minutes so I actually had about 5 minutes of flight available with a slight reserve for emergency. Not bad. We did it, she will be flying again soon.

I think now I'll go set in my chair, watch a little TV and grin like a kid with a new toy. It's been fun. ed

[dawnron1]

Ed,

It was an honor and a pleasure, my friend. I'll get the full res pics to you soon.

Ronnie

[Ed Couch]

Ronnie

I await the pictures and look forward to seeing them. Who got the video?

I noticed that the pilot was missing but I think I may have just the right one in my people files.

I've got to start unloading things but I think I will hold off until tomorrow. Ya'll have fun now, ya hear!! ed

[turbonut]

Wow what a great looking airplane! well done..funny I noticed in the pic of the landing flair the right main looks tweeked..then I read the whole post and walla there is the answer...great job..makes me want one..

[Flyer175]

Congratulations... She looks great!!! Wonderful pictures too.
Noticed the right main wheel in the pictures....must have been right after the ever so slight bounce. :D :eek:
Bill

[Ed Couch]

After talking to the other members of our crew I got the same answer as discussed. The photo of the landing flair and I need the video to prove it is immediately prior to the first touchdown. Attitude was correct although I prefer a wheels on touchdown normally and let the tail fall on its own during run out. We simply had a mechanical failure of the right main gear which means it was my fault. I should have seen the problem and resolved the issue prior to flight. I've had conversations in the last couple of hours on ideas of how to resolve the problem before the next flight. I think we know how to resolve the immediate problem but if I add retracts later it's going to be back to square one. As I said before 50 pound airplanes don't bounce. I spent two hours yesterday on a simulation program flying some large B-17 and B-25 gas models and honestly they really helped. The simulation had a DC-3 but it was too overpowered to do any real good. The two bombers pretty much matched what I was seeing and feeling with the big Gooney Bird. It looks like it will take a couple of days to correct the problem but thats part of modeling. We are talking about building our own hubs and making props with a lot of pitch to load the motors as they should be. There is a honest 10 amps difference between the props used and the one I use on my big GeeBee. The GeeBee is impossible to hold onto when I'm running it up on the stand in my shop. The DC-3 with two turning should be the same. We need to work out this problem before the next flight. I have a number of friends who have the skill and machinery to make whatever I need to make it right. Put the challenge forth and everyone will step forward to offer their help. Thats modeling. ed

[drksyd]

Great job Ed! I know it'll be more cost and work but a plane this beautiful should be fully equipped. A nice low flyby with gears up would be a great pic.

Excellent job on the pics Ron. That morning sun makes for some good lighting.

[Ed Couch]

No argument on the retracts but I think I'll just fly her and say she never left the pattern. After a dozen or more flights I may spring for a set of Roberts or turn loose a couple of friends who have offered to custom build them for me. I'm in no hurry at this stage. It's not an issue for competition at this point so I'll take my time. I've actually done exactly what I wanted to do by making the successful conversion to electric and making a good flight. From here on its nothing but gravy for me. Its big, bold and flies like a dream. Pulling the gear would be the cherry on the cake but I'm in no hurry.

If anybody knows of a set slightly used retracts drop me a line as I might leap a little earlier than planned. You just never know I may just jump tomorrow if things came my way. ed

[drksyd]

I hear ya Ed. This bird is a great success, look forward to seeing more of it.

[mpope1]

Great job, that is a beautiful bird! The pix are amazing...

[KOMET 44]

Great job ed.The pictures,man, there out of this world!!!!!!!!!
KOMET44

[dawnron1]

Thanks for the comments guys, this bird was a real pleasure to shoot :D

Ronnie

[LBJ]

I've got KemK's video of Ed's flight. But, I am a bit strapped, technically. I don't seem to have an IN VIDEO port on the back of my computer. I feel like I can use the USB port, but am not sure. Seems logical that I can load my still pics in theru the USB port, so why not the video? The donor unit is an older Sony 8mm cam corder with cassette cart. the other thing would be a suitable adapter cable to get out of the camera into the computer. Anyone pretty familiar with converting to computer movie with this setup?

[drksyd]

I've got KemK's video of Ed's flight. But, I am a bit strapped, technically. I don't seem to have an IN VIDEO port on the back of my computer. I feel like I can use the USB port, but am not sure. Seems logical that I can load my still pics in theru the USB port, so why not the video? The donor unit is an older Sony 8mm cam corder with cassette cart. the other thing would be a suitable adapter cable to get out of the camera into the computer. Anyone pretty familiar with converting to computer movie with this setup?
Does your camcorder have a memory card slot? Might be possible to convert the vid to mpeg* and save to the memory card. That's what we used to do with our old Sony VHS-C camcorder.

[Bergwood]

Spectacular job Ed. The pictures are beautiful. I too am a huge fan of the C-47/DC-3 and yours simply looks amazing. Congrats on a job well done! ;)

Berg

[LBJ]

"Does your camcorder have a memory card slot? Might be possible to convert the vid to mpeg* and save to the memory card. That's what we used to do with our old Sony VHS-C camcorder."

No, no memory on this one. Old tape version. Prolly about 8-10 years old.

[dawnron1]

LBJ,

I got your e-mail and I'm sorry to say don't have an answer on how to retrieve the video. Let me check with a buddy and see if he has any ideas.

Ronnie

[Tonystott]

Any computer store should be able to provide you with an inexpensive adaptor

[Ed Couch]

Minor dings from lose of right wheel have been repaired and everything reassembled. Old gear blocks were stripped out and new main gear braces replaced with plywood instead of maple or pine, can't tell what. Also gears were held into blocks with straps and wood screws. Things simply pulled apart due to age. Using bolt/blind nuts now and the blocks are multiple layers of 1/4 inch plywood pinned together with 1/8th inch dowels. Wing will come apart before they break now. For now this should be ok but everyone keep looking for a good set of Robart retracts. Drop me a PM or email if you find anything. Appreciate all the help and suggestions. ed

[Ed Couch]

The 8 mm tape has been converted and I can review it on the computer now.
Ouch, that's expensive to do but I wanted to see what had happened at the landing and honestly when flying I never get to see her fly anyway. I appreciate Kim getting the video for me.

Now for the fun part. I did bounce and the first bounce spread the gear just enough to release the axle and wheel assembly. I did need to carry extra speed so I now know what not to do. What ever! I'll try to load the tape up as it's a little over 3 minutes long. If it works, great, if not, I'll keep trying.

ed

Blasted file is to big so I will have to try some thing else.

eec

[barneybdb]

When I was in the US last year I bought a tape video camera from Walmart for about $140, bought an adaptor and software from one of the local computer shops for about $39, have since recorded many hours to tape, saved to dvd, edited etc, I am currently trying to finish a job in England and all the gear is home in Australia. Will be happy to supply all details when I make it home, meanwhile keep up the great work with your model, I spent over 26 years working on C-47's for the Australian military. The real ones can take a lot of punishment so a properly built model (as yours is ) should last long enough to keep us all entertained for some time

[Douglas C]

Very nice job on this one would love to see it in person.

[Rudderman98]

Fantastic work and flight Ed.

Congrats! She's a beaut!

Perry

[Ed Couch]

More photos taken of the lady last Saturday at the Warbird Fly-In at the Ft Worth Thunderbirds field. She was on her best behavior and flew as sweet as she looks. Honestly guys, she flies great but like a lady there is that little bit of mischief in her and glint in her eyes that says you damn well pay attention as when I rolled in on final I thought I say a little wiggle in her tail. Figure she will bite hard when you get lazy and forget how she is. I've received a number of shots from three different folks and they are all appreciated. Bill, David, and Ronnie thanks so much for the photos. ed

[Gree]

Looks beautiful Ed! What ever happened to the video you were trying to upload? I have been hanging out to see it...

[Ed Couch]

I can't seem to make the video work as it's too big. I will have to try again after a friend takes a look. Sorry for the delay. ed

[LBJ]

Might have it now. Fairly short clip. "KemK" took the video on an older cassette camera. There's enough here to demonstrate the flying qualities.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/numskin/?action=view&current=ed3.flv

While I'm at it, how/what do you do to get the whole movie to play right here in the window? I tried several options on the link and all, but only got a still frame of the video to load and clicking on it only took me back to the Photobucket site.

[denial15]

Might have it now. Fairly short clip. "KemK" took the video on an older cassette camera. There's enough here to demonstrate the flying qualities.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v228/numskin/?action=view&current=ed3.flv

While I'm at it, how/what do you do to get the whole movie to play right here in the window? I tried several options on the link and all, but only got a still frame of the video to load and clicking on it only took me back to the Photobucket site.


Load the video to You Tube, Google Video, or Vimeo. You can post the link from those sites into your post here and they will play directly in the post. Just like you did it with the above post - Photobucket just does not do it.

That's a pretty cool video - what's there at least. Very nice looking plane.

[Ed Couch]

Thank you Lane for getting the clip to play. The original tape was 3 minutes and 12 seconds long. A lot of long passes but not much different than you see above. The only thing missing was the landing but I think it shows how well it flies. Last Saturday in a 10 knot headwind it came off the ground before I got the throttles to 60 percent. The 17/8 Turnigy 3 bladed props are if anything just too small. I built up a set of 17.5 inch 12 pitch Zingers but they were just a little to long and would have marked the fuselage. I need to check the motor alignment as one touches the fuselage and the other is clear. Something is not right but damn, what is there works and works well. Several of the shooters have been kidding me about the big Mustang with two motors due to its ability and speed. I don't fly scale speed and honestly don't plan on it. As stated earlier I see a little mischief in her when I slow down. Speed is safety and I don't mind flying a little fast for that reason. I have no plans for loops or rolls even if she could as there is no point in it. Now it's time to start thinking about retracts but there are other projects on my table that will hold me back for the next six months or so. I hope all have enjoyed the rebuild and first flights. For me it was a dream come true. Have fun!! ed

[Gree]

Wow listen to that thing! You can also see just how stable it is too. Nice job!

[krles]

Hi Ed,
nice job! I have a similar plane, more photos come soon.

Tom

[krles]

here some photos, I promised...

[LBJ]

Dayum nice! I like it. LBJ

Oh yes, what was the final weight?

[dava92]

Wow!

[drksyd]

Wow. This is the best foamie I've seen. Great job Tom.
Did you make those retracts?

[Ed Couch]

Very, very nice bird. Well done!!

Also, where did you get the 17/10 props? I need a little more pitch on mine and the size is right. Cannot seem to find anything local. ed

[krles]

Ed: the props are homemade (not me), from two-blade ones

drksyd: yes, retracts are 5 months of my own work...there is an electric motor with a motional screw. Powered from 3s Lipo 2200 via esc.

LBJ: the final weight is 26lb (12kg). It is not a lot, but on the other hand, the minimal speed is very low.

Cheers
Tom

[LBJ]

That's why I don't get carried away with scale details, I can't touch that! Very nice indeed. LBJ

[Smash McCrash]

Great job! Those retracts are very impressive. I love when they are done scale on something like the DC3.

Mike

[oldcoot88]

A very nice brand new vid here-

http://www.asb.tv/videos/view.php?v=d70a8591

[surfer]

Hi Krles, beautifull dc-3, congratulations!

I am also converting a (fiberclassics) DC-3 to electric. I was wondering as it looks like you have made a battery access on the top of your fuse. It looks really convenient. Would it be possible to see a closer picture of this battery installation and access? I am thinking of building this kind of solution too, so you can easily remove packs for charging.

In case it might interest someone I can post some pics of my DC-3. I think it is a bit smaller than ziroli (wingspan is 325 cm) and length is about 225cm. It is actually a second hand Dc-3 crashed and repaired. I bought it recently and I have already installed 2 kontronik koratop 30/12 motors. I intend to use 2 seperate 8cells LIPO 5000Ma. The total a.u.weight should be around 14 Kgs and props will be ramoser 14x10 3. It is with genuine fiberclassic electric (winch) retract.

[krles]

to surfer: yes, the battery access is really from the top of the fuse (see attached pics). Battery change is very easy (with one hand) due to pins soldered to a PCB plate.
Btw using two separate 8cells isn´t a good idea; better join them parallel. Both motors become so the same voltage.
Post some pics,
Cheers Tom

[surfer]

Hi,

thanks for these pictures. You are right you must connect batteries with one hand only wich is not easy if you don't have a good connection system.

I will make some pictures of the building stage of my DC-3. One of the main concern is about long motor leads because I will need to put batteries on front of the fuase to get the CG. The plane is all fiber and thers is lot of weight on the back of the CG.

[surfer]

sorry for the cat but he wanted to be on the picture!

[surfer]

one more pic

[RiBell]

Hi
~ One of the main concern is about long motor leads because I will need to put batteries on front of the fuselage to get the CG.
There is a guy building a huge B-36. He has done some testing and has had a great debate in his thread from what seems like people that know a lot more than me about it starting here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13135016&postcount=3936) with the question and testing. then the long debate starts here on page 266 post #3977 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=933242&page=266) there is quite a long discussion about longer leads. Both from the ESC to the batt and ESC to the motor.
Also a friend of mine needed to lengthen his Batt to ESC leads and when he e-mailed Castle; he got a response from telling him exactly what to do for his situation.
Rick

[Tonystott]

Rick, just a small point... as users can change the number of posts per page, the page number for a particular post will change.

[RiBell]

Rick, just a small point... as users can change the number of posts per page, the page number for a particular post will change.
Yes and for that reason I also added the post #