15' Span Jenny

[dgrush]

A friend, Wendell Hotmann has taken the plans from the Proctor Jenny and enlarged them to 33% which is rioght around a 15' ws. He told me the plans designer, but I forgot his name -sorry - I will find it out. I asked if I could post what he has been doing and got the okay. I figured he said yes because when he needs an extra pair of hands on this project I am it!

For a little background, Wendell is an mechanical engineer and a very good builder. This winter on of his projects was to build a tigermoth from a Premier Kit. British I am pretty sure. We did a co-op build of what we called the "Big Splash" based on his model of the Splash-E that was free plans in RC Flyer I believe.

The Jenny was designed as a quick build - we actually hope to have it flying at our Electric Fun Fly in Madison the 11th and 12th of July - yes this year.

I will try to answer any questions that you have. but will have to get most answers from him.

The plans were designed on a program he uses at work - sorry I don't know the name of it, but its not a drawing program, individual pieces are designed and then put together by the program (I think-sorry)

The first thing we did is glue each side of the fuse plans to two 3/4" 2x8 pieces of shelving sanded plywood from Menards.

I am missing a few pictures - so some items will be posted in the wrong order.

The wing ribs and many plywood part were laser cut by Bill Lowe (Ghost designer)

The wood for the fuse started out as a piece of aircraft spruce. One of our friends that has built Pietenpol helped him find the spruce. He took that to a friend who does woodworking to get it milled to the sizes he needed. Pictures to follow -

[dgrush]

These are our two Big Splashes with the original Splash-E.

[dgrush]

Sorry, the pictures are just in a random order. Enjoy

[rcgreaves]

I've subscribed to follow the progression.

[Ercoupe Ed]

I just love Vintage and Classic airplanes!
And this is a about as Vintage and Classic as you can get!
I'll be watching!

[cmala]

very cool. What do you expect it to weigh? How do you plan to power it? What are the wheels from?

Craig

[dgrush]

The plans that were used were by Ralph Beck of Beloit, WI
The design software is Solid-Works.

As far as the weight - we are hoping 30 lbs or less.

The power system is the big Turnigy SK that will be running through a gear driven Belt Drive that Wendell has designed and built. I believe it is going to be spinng a 33" prop.

The wheels are just some that our club president handed him. They are actually too big. Jenny wheels were kind of small. Scale size would be just under 9". He may try to biuld some or get the Dumas vintage 1/3 scale - they are just over 9" i believe.

Hope to have more pictures after the weekend.

[dgrush]

Last night we started capping the ribs with 1/64 ply. about twice the thickiness of the rib for more purchase for the covering and to add some rib strength.

The picture of Wendell with the upper and lower wing halves really gives this some perspective as to what a beast it is!

Undercarrige is almost ready for assembly.

Hope to be able to lay out all the big pieces together this weekend.

[edoc]

Thanks for posting Dave.

It seemed impossible that Wendell could build a 15 foot plane using foam ribs, but now that I see these photos, I think he just might pull it off. The combination of foam and aircraft ply looks great so far.
I can't wait to see it fly. This will be the highlight of your Electric fly in for me.

Tim

[Thayer]

Looks absolutely fabulous!

The plans for Harry Stewart's Splash-E flying boat were in the June 2004 issue of Fly RC magazine. Back issues are still available at www.flyrc.com.

Thayer

[dgrush]

Hey Thayer,

I had actually sent you pictures and an article about our float flying addiction that was going to be in Fly-RC but never I guess it never ended up making the cut. The original Splash-E in the middle was built from Harry Stewart's plans out of my copy of Fly RC. I handed my friend my plans and he reduced them to fit the 40" wing he had left from a former plane! Recycling at its best!!

[dgrush]

Here are shots of the Motor, Prop and gearbox (unassembled) Prop is a 33x10

[steve1814]

Here are shots of the Motor, Prop and gearbox (unassembled) Prop is a 33x10


Wow, nice gearbox!

[edoc]

Wow, nice gearbox! I can't agree more. For the "smaller" scale stuff he has custom made CNC d one piece gear boxes for throwing 20 inch props. We should post a photo of one of these. Those large props turning at realistic speeds even sound like old Bipes flying by.

I drove up to Wendell's last night to check it out for myself. He has an entire basement of building areas, custom made shop equipment. And a second very large building area attached to his garage. The most amazing part, everything was so neat and clean. When I work I have piles every where.

I ran several of his possible gear ratios with his 170 KV motor on 12S lipos in E-Calc. With his 30X10 prop he is going to have difficulty getting enough pitch speed. 33 inch is the scale size prop. He has a 30X20 composite that will work well, but not look as good. A 33X15 prop would be ideal.

Does anyone Know where to purchase a prop this size. E-prop would be even better and Wood would look the best

[rcgreaves]

I visited and cut parts last week end.. the ply really does "unitize" the ribs nicely. As far as foam only ribs, there were literally hundreds of nay sayers here on the zone who insisted that Pink Floyd was an all foam folly I watched Pink Floyd maiden here in Verona WI at 24' span Hans achieved with structural bracing and flying wires what engineers said wouldn't fly. Search for Pink Floyd if you have a couple days to sort through the thousands of responses...

I can only ditto steves comment: Wendells craftsmanship here is wonderful to behold. BRAVO! :D

[dgrush]

The plane has been progressing well. The fuse has been sealed, the wing rib caps are all on and the tail feathers are close. Getting to that fun piddly building stuff to do now. You know, the stuff that looks like you spent two hours doing nothing!!

That's me with the paint brush - try to limit me to jobs I can't screw-up!

Enjoy!

[dgrush]

By the way, I have no idea how that Busch Light can got into a picture. You will have to confer with Wendell on that - I am sure it was just to weight the tail feathers down!! LOL

[cmala]

Looks great! I assume those are metal tubes around the perimeter of the tail feathers? How do you plan to cover this? Will regular Monokote stick to metal? (I tried it with my aluminum landing gear and couldn't get it to stick)

Craig

[dag214]

Not to hi-jack this thread, but what a cool and great project this is. I sewed my fabric on with a aircraft needle from aircraft spruce, worked great.

I really love the vintage big birds, I started mine as a 150cc gas project, but now I am converting it to a electric geared project turning a 38" prop.

You plane is looking 110% perfect.

The plane was just made up in my head, then I designed it in 3D and built it about 4 years ago, but the 150cc engine shook the tail so bad I never flew her, now she will be electric and flying next year.

Good luck,DAG

[dag214]

Also here is some of the rigging.

PM me if you need anything rigging. There is all kinds of 1/8" rigging stuff out there.

DAG

[dgrush]

DAG, Saw your vintage plane pictures on your B-36 build site. Very cool. (both planes!) How tough/time consuming was sewing the fabric? Love the picture with your daughter (?) in the vintage plane.

I am just posting this for my friend Wendell. The plan right now is to put three coats of Sig Stick on the plane and cover it with this non woven fabric that Wendell got at work. The testing that Wendell has done worked best with a water base polyeurathane than dope. He found a color of poly that makes the fabric look like the solarfilm antique color so it should be pretty sweet looking. I am not sure what the fabric is. Their company manufactures one of a kind machines that do what people need/want and the fabric was used in a machine they designed for someone. They told him it makes great kites and that's how this project was born. Wendell is one of those guys who sees something that might end up in the garbage and it becomes a project.

Later,
Dave

[dag214]

DAG, Saw your vintage plane pictures on your B-36 build site. Very cool. (both planes!) How tough/time consuming was sewing the fabric? Love the picture with your daughter (?) in the vintage plane.

I am just posting this for my friend Wendell. The plan right now is to put three coats of Sig Stick on the plane and cover it with this non woven fabric that Wendell got at work. The testing that Wendell has done worked best with a water base polyeurathane than dope. He found a color of poly that makes the fabric look like the solarfilm antique color so it should be pretty sweet looking. I am not sure what the fabric is. Their company manufactures one of a kind machines that do what people need/want and the fabric was used in a machine they designed for someone. They told him it makes great kites and that's how this project was born. Wendell is one of those guys who sees something that might end up in the garbage and it becomes a project.

Later,
Dave

The sewing was not hard at all. Just takes some time, but not a ton. I was really surprised at how easy the sewing was, I just took a ink pen and made dots on top of the wing were I wanted the stitching to show, and poked the needle down, then on the other side just push really light until I saw where the needle was, then push throw where I wanted. If you need more pics PM me as I don't want to hi-jack this thread.

Be safe,
DAG

Also the fabric was iron on, the stitching is really for show, but is functional.

[dgrush]

Fuselage wiring was added as well as tail feather servos.

Hope to have some in the bones pictures soon if the wing rigging gets completed.

Later,
Dave

[Tipover]

That is truly some beautiful workmanship. Wish I had the patients to build like some of you guys. Should fly like a dream.

Kevin

[edoc]

Dave,
Has Wendell put the parts on a scale to get a guess at final weight? With such a light power system do you expect to have problems with CG?
If you need a couple more 12S batteries to help her balance, I can help you out.

Tim

[rcgreaves]

thats a valid concern, I remember when we flew pink floyd with a 24' wing we were loadingthe nose with cans of soup lead all kinds of weird college kid lead to balance the thing...

[edoc]

If you want to see this plane fly...

Madison Electric:
July 11th and 12th
With a great facility,and a great City to visit, this 2 day event has potential to become the largest electric event in the Mid West. Come and be part of it!
Madison is very popular weekend destination for shopping, plays, restraunts. It is a good idea to get hotel reservations now.

Even if you don't plan to fly, come on out and see some incredible planes.
A BVM Electra Jet and Wendell's 15 foot Jenny. Build log of Wendell's Jenny: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1052704
The Madison field has a paved runway, sheltered picnic tables, food vendor.

Bring the whole family for a fun weekend vacation!
For the spouse and kids, Madison has great restraunts, shopping malls, plays, museums, free zoo, botanical gardens, and people watching on State Street to keep them happy. For you, 3 Hobby shops!
More information on the Fun Fly: http://www.marcswi.org/

Madison, WI: More fun things to do than most very large cities!
http://www.hellomadison.com/Events.cfm
http://www.visitmadison.com/
http://www.cityofmadison.com/residents/recreation/

[Tipover]

July 11th is coming up real fast.

Any building anxiety at this point? ;)

Kevin

[Knotnuts]

By the way, I have no idea how that Busch Light can got into a picture. You will have to confer with Wendell on that - I am sure it was just to weight the tail feathers down!! LOL Yeah, it wasn't open...... :) Really a great project!! Gonna' be some bird!

[dgrush]

Hope to be covering next week. Lots of little things to do now. On Wendell's calendar the test flight is scheduled for the 4th of July Weekend - we shall see!!!

As far a nose heavy, I don't know. I think Wendell told me that he got 6 4s 4200 packs or 8 3s Rhino Lipoly packs that will be wired 12s2p???? They are going to be mounted right behind the firewall as well as the other electronics.

Tim you should email Wendell direct or call him, I know he would like you there for the motor test run. I think with what he has calculated, he is hoping for 36 to 38 lbs.

Had hoped to do some perspective pictures, but no time yet. I told him we need to put his little Dare Jenny on top of the wing.

Later,
Dave

[cmala]

looks great! I wish Madison, WI was closer to Madison, AL

[Parkk]

Very Nice !!

[rcgreaves]

All

I had the opportunity to visit Jenny last night and fabricate some balsa surrounds for the flying wire chain plates. These little blocks will support the fabric along the metal plates where the fabric would otherwise flap in the breeze.

You know its humid when Probond catalyses without added water...At 9pm is was 90 degrees in the garage and humidity was higher too. After an hour of fitting and 2 Schlitz I was wringing wet. Wendell worked on various engine compartment items in the cool of the basement eh hem...-the radiator and some mock muffler stacks, priming and filling the engine compartment cover. Lastly we kibbutz ed about the metal to balsa joints on the rudder and elevator. I ended up wrapping these spots with CA enhanced filament tape. This way if these joints pop under load at some point the tape will keep the wing ribs in place.

I plan to go back ASAP and do the other 6 of 8 panel sides of these chain plate blocks. (8/wing panel!)

The aileron servo leads are about 5 feet short, so perhaps I'll solder some servo leads.

The devil IS in the details for something like this. I was blown away at how much they've accomplished and still gone to work! :eek:

I had the chance to see Wendell's covering and clear coat test samples, I think the weathered effect he plans will be very dramatic in deed.

It's interesting to me how truly motivating this stuff is... A few have suggested why not just make it full sized and man carrying? I love that as modelers we're doing the same thing, yet Wendell is doing it in a way few have done before. This is an expensive project, but as compared to an experimental, its a bargain with ALL the excitement that goes with the construction challenges involved.

[edoc]

If you want to see this plane fly...

Madison Electric:
July 11th and 12th
With a great facility,and a great City to visit, this 2 day event has potential to become the largest electric event in the Mid West. Come and be part of it!
Madison is very popular weekend destination for shopping, plays, restraunts. It is a good idea to get hotel reservations now.

Even if you don't plan to fly, come on out and see some incredible planes.
A BVM Electra Jet and Wendell's 15 foot Jenny. Build log of Wendell's Jenny: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1052704
The Madison field has a paved runway, sheltered picnic tables, food vendor.

Bring the whole family for a fun weekend vacation!
For the spouse and kids, Madison has great restraunts, shopping malls, plays, museums, free zoo, botanical gardens, and people watching on State Street to keep them happy. For you, 3 Hobby shops!
More information on the Fun Fly: http://www.marcswi.org/

Madison, WI: More fun things to do than most very large cities!
http://www.hellomadison.com/Events.cfm
http://www.visitmadison.com/
http://www.cityofmadison.com/residents/recreation/

Correction: Fabric covered runway not paved. Good excuse to keep the add Fresh...

[dgrush]

We took the final bones pictures today. The little Jenny is a Dare 40" wing span rubberband powered the Wendell converted to rc. Just to give a little perspective on the project.

Batteries loaded on board - the shot is from the back seat. We weighed it and the weight was more than we had hoped for - if the scale we balanced it on was accurate. Figure it is going to be 48lbs RTF. With all that wing area we should be okay.

Covering to get started soon.

Wendell started cutting the spruce on April 28th. Pretty incredible progress for two months of work as well as working his full time job where he gets paid!!!!

[Tipover]

It’s beautiful. Unbelievable how fast things are coming together.

Even at 50 lbs I think it will be a floater.

(edit) forgot to ask, what is the battery configuration?

Kevin

[dgrush]

Batteries are 8 3s 4900 rhino lipolypacks - configured in 12s2p

9800 MAH -we should be able to fly it cross county - good thing Wendell has a convertible!! - Ha ha ha!!

Dave

[LBJ]

Very Nice indeed! It took me two months to assemble the Green Models 1/5 scale ARF Jenny. Man, am I slow.

What are you going to cover it with?

LBJ

[edoc]

Batteries are 8 3s 4900 rhino lipolypacks - configured in 12s2p

9800 MAH -we should be able to fly it cross county - good thing Wendell has a convertible!! - Ha ha ha!!

Dave

John Adams is flying these batteries in his Kee Kat with very good power. That Battery setup sounds perfect and should have enough weight to balance the Jenny. Wendell should be able to fly several flights without recharging.

Tim

[rebell]

After so long work building a beautiful model like this, I am a bit worried about the motor you are using. Reading the reviews on HobbyCity site it looks like there are some problems with the Turnigy SK63-74 170 motor and it don't last long. I would not like to see all this work go down because of a motor that is not up to the job. It deserves good quality equipment.

[rcgreaves]

So I arrived to a preheated covering iron and a cold beer. I covered the v stab and rudder. The paper/fabric like material is a bit labor intensive,but since that's Wendell's excuse to create all this coolness, I'm game. There's a shiny side and it has different stretch characteristics in different orientations so we''ll try to orient things the same. Perhaps Solartex would be more pleasant to work with but after some practice with the glue I got it to lay down OK.

There's just a ton of covering work to do in the next several days. :eek:

[dgrush]

Hey,

Spent 3 1/2 hours with Wendell Saturday morning. Tail feathers covered and sealed. I sealed the two bottom wings with polyurethane and worked on cleaning out the hinges of the tail feathers and ailerons. When I left, Wendell was just finishing up covering one of the top wings. I forget what color of the polyurethane is but the patina we ended up with is exactly what Wendell was hoping for.

Should have some pictures soon.

Hope to test fly it on Thursday - we shall see.

Dave

[maxxnut]

Subscribed.....just too good to pass up. best of luck on the maiden flight.
IF you ever get to Everett, Wa. take a tour of Paul Allen's Flying Heretage Mueseum located at Paine Field, there is a Jenny on display.

Neil

[Haole]

Subscribed. Incredible project and the pace of progress is amazing. Very nice work!

Carl

[dgrush]

More pictures to share. There is a shot with both wings, one sealed the other white so you can see the covering material fabric with out sealer.

Later,
Dave

[frankswd]

Nice build, I'm interested in how the motor works?

[dgrush]

Here is a couple shots of the finished fuse minus some small details. Hopefully some more shots tomorrow!
Later,
Dave

[challenger_i]

Where did you get the belt drive?

Here are shots of the Motor, Prop and gearbox (unassembled) Prop is a 33x10

[dgrush]

Challenger I

Wendell designed and built the belt drive.

Dave

[challenger_i]

Would he be in the market to build another? :D

[steve1814]

That is just a true work of art! (stands and claps -loudly!)

Cheers,
Steve

[rcgreaves]

http://picasaweb.google.com/rcgreaves/JennyFinished7_8_2009?authkey=Gv1sRgCJG5rKzU7_fGBw&feat=directlink

[edoc]

Great bunch of photos and video, thanks RC.

The ESC had trouble syncing with the motor on startup. It might be fixable with a little change in programing. I have found the same problem when throttling off on final and then giving power suddenly. You can avoid this by keeping some power on, so the ESC and motor stay in sync. During the test flight, I would keep some idle power on rather complete power off until you are sure this has been fixed.

Tim

[Tim Wolff]

Looks incredible! I'll have my fingers crossed for the madien all day today.

[GordonTarling]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but are you SURE that 2160 Watts is going to be enough to fly that lovely model? My 87" Tiger Moth at 18 pounds has 1500 Watts, so I just can't help feeling that the Jenny is going to be underpowered. I wish you luck with the maiden!

[rcgreaves]

Final day of construction :)

[rcgreaves]

What can I say, the maiden went perfectly. Power was ok, esc cooperated. I need a nap!

[rcgreaves]

Thanks to Phil Hinkle and Frogman Productions for the attached.

www.frogmanproductions.com/video/JennyMaiden.wmv

[Parkk]

Awsome !

[dgrush]

Well, my fingers have stopped shaking enough to try to type. Obviously Clayton already posted some great shots and an awesome video from his friend Phil - thanks Phil!!

So I am walking down the field as Wendell is taxiing the plane and he looks at me and says, you should test fly it. Need less to say, I did not turn him down and know how my heart is when I test my own stuff. I have tested stuff for Wendell before and he does such a great job building, I was not really that apprehensive.

As far as a flight report. Took some down trim and a little right trim. I believe we were about an inch behind where we thought the CG should. Not sure though, it wasn't twitchy. But what I am I talking about, I have never ever flown a plane as big as this before. When it turned it took barely anything to get it to turn. We were flying with 50% rudder coupled to the aileron. I think I will have Wendell take some of that out for the flights this weekend. ON the seodn flight I did some right turns to, took upstairs a bit and stalled it to see what it would do, both times it gently dropped the left wing.

I will look at my pictures and see if there are anymore worth sharing.

Wendell will tell you he has lived with the plane every waking moment when he wasn't at his real job. 11 week build time - just incredible. Still some detailing to do, but the goal was to have it flying for our Electric Fun Fly, which is this Saturday and Sunday. Ahhh...... two days to spare!!!

Thanks for looking in!!
Dave

[Tim Wolff]

WhoooHooo!

Looks stunning in the air!

[maxxnut]

" Spoiled kids and their toys...."

VERY Pretty..outstanding....take a bow everyone....congrats !!

Neil

[Z06kal]

Goregeous build. I wish I had the skills and patience....

[TRWXXA]

Droooooooooooooool...


Simply awesome!!!

[BD Flyer]

Amazing work dgrush! :cool:

[olmstead25]

i remember when he got the box of foam ribs and such, he brought the plans with and everyone kinda went woohh.. this could be pretty awsome and here a couple moths later i think all our thoughts were understatments, amazing job!!

[Ed Couch]

Simply put, she is beautiful and flies like her namesake. On the motor/ESC sync question, make sure your timing is set at high as recommended by Turnigy for their large motors. I've had them squall and shut down if not set properly. Check the programmer and see. Also, add the pilot, it will fly better once Waldo is on board. ed

[dgrush]

BDFlyer, Thanks, but the credit goes to Wendell, He's the builder/engineer/braintrust. I just did the post because he was sitting in his shop working on the plane! I just got lucky and was able to be the test pilot!

[dgrush]

Ed,
Thanks for the thoughts on the motor - we used their programmer and had the timing set on high.

[challenger_i]

Omar Locklear would look good, on the struts!

[dgrush]

The Jenny wowed the crowds at our Electric Fun Fly last weekend. Wind was about 12 mph on Saturday and it handled it just fine. Sunday the wind was not even a concern.

Now that our event is done, Wendell is working on some more detailing. Will post pictures when detailing is completed.

[BrentP]

So beautifull in so little time, that is amazing!

Congrats to Wendell and all invovled in sharing a work of art with us!

Cheers

Brent

[BrentP]

Great bunch of photos and video, thanks RC.

The ESC had trouble syncing with the motor on startup. It might be fixable with a little change in programing. I have found the same problem when throttling off on final and then giving power suddenly. You can avoid this by keeping some power on, so the ESC and motor stay in sync. During the test flight, I would keep some idle power on rather complete power off until you are sure this has been fixed.

Tim

All of my Turnigy controllers stall out when throttling back (maybe to full off) and instantly slamming the throttle back on. The RPM doesn't come up and the motor makes an almost seized sound. These are 40, 60 and 80 amp ESC on low timing.

I don't know why but think the motor doesn't spool down enough before the throttle is applied again, (guessing)

Having said that it has never created a problem ( throttle off and go again).
It has happened to me probably a half dozen times on various planes, probably would happen more if it was a habit to thottle off and slam back on.

Though I'm going with the recommended timing I should maybe try a different setting and see if it does the same.

Brent

[dgrush]

Sorry, I have been away. Wendell now has some detailing done. I will post pictures as soon as I can.

[staggerwing]

Very, very nice, a commendable successfull triumph !

[EJWash1]

dgrush, you flew so realistically, I kept waiting for a mail bag to drop or a wing walker to come out.

I always felt that I missed out not learning to fly in the age of the Jenny. You just reminded me of that.

Thank you for sharing, and great work Wendell and all!

EJWash

[tim hooper]

Wonderful!

Just read the entire thread with bated breath - delighted to see such a satisfying conclusion to such a fascinating & professionally managed project.

Congrats to everyone involved!

tim (+Netty)

[Hepdog]

Really nice but it looks really odd without a PILOT!

[onadplanebill@mc]

hats off to you Wendall
what a pretty plane
Bill Lowe

[Amp Abuser]

Can you do a vid without all the loud music I want to hear the plane not a song. Wendall and all who helped him what a great project to bring together the lads for some good times. Well done!~ Yessa a pilot with a moving head with the rudder and a waving arm with the elevator.. :D

[dgrush]

The Jenny flew at our scale rally yesterday. Wendell had a new gear fabricated as there was concern that the allen screws might not be enough to hold that 33" prop.

Wind was not user freindly yesterday but the Jenny handled it fine. Got bounced around but not too bad. Wendell nailed a nice cross wind landing.

Will try to get pictures of new detailing posted.

Later,
Dave

[Mikey C.]

That was amazing to see, thanks for sharing. Simply stunning!

[Haole]

Great job you guys! I'm amazed at the build speed and wonderful maiden. Also, I'd love to see a video with nat sound--must make great scale noise up there with all the rigging and that MONSTER prop.

Carl

[nubli]

great job buddy.. really inspired me. wish one day I will be able to build as good stuff..

[Roaddog]

I jus' read th' whole thread, snagged a few of th' pix and D/L'd th' vid. Need I say I'm in absolute AWE!
My heartfelt congratulations on a WONDERFUL project and its success!
RD
Montross, Va.