Wood or Fiberglass?

[Monahan Steam]

Do you prefer building your model's hull from wood or fiberglass?

I have heard a lot of mixed feelings from a number people who all have different opinions on this subject. So I am curious to take a poll on this matter.

I can understand that it depends on the model but for this poll lets just talk about models who's hulls would have been originally built from wood. Such as Fishing vessels, Tugs, Pleasure craft and so on.

[der kapitan]

Wooden hulls are fine, but require regular maintenance, because of the nature of the material. Wood and moisture aren't exactly good companions. ;)

I tend to prefer fiberglass because I'm more familiar with it, and because of its durability in a wet environment. :)

[patmat2350]

Wood with a fiberglass skin is fine in my book for one-offs, but a purchased glass hull sure saves time.

And a classic steam launch screams out for wood, brass, and varnish.

[toesup]

Either.. :o

It depends on the hull shape too...

I'm currently building a plug for a tug from foam and bondo.. then have to glass up a mold so i can make a hull...
In the time its taken me so far, i could probably have made a wooden hull... :rolleyes:

[ken_nj]

I built a fishing boat (party boat) from wood years ago. Plank on frame, more like sheet basswood on frame, then fiberglassed it. After I finished it I built a plug to make a mold. Popped a FG hull out of the mold and currently rebuilding the same boat on the fiberglass hull. I prefer working with wood. The boat feels more solid. The real boat is aluminum. Prefer building all my own hulls. The nice thing about FG hulls is less framing getting in the way, more room if you do it right. Didn't have to do any maintenance on my wood hulls.

[der kapitan]

Either.. :o
It depends on the hull shape too...
I'm currently building a plug for a tug from foam and bondo.. then have to glass up a mold so i can make a hull...
In the time its taken me so far, i could probably have made a wooden hull... :rolleyes:
I've seen a pic of the hull you're working on Toes, and making a mold of it is the right thing to do. :)

There should more than a one-off of it---. :D

[ooby]

Much prefer wood to replicate the original.

[Monahan Steam]

It's good to hear all of your thoughts on this topic. Lets keep them coming!

I like both materials actually but I do tend lean more towards wood because I actually enjoy all the pain and suffering that comes with building a hull. :) Plus most of the boats I tend to build were built from wood originally. However there are a number of finely manufactured fiberglass hulls out there and they do cut a lot of time off of the build.

[Monahan Steam]

Wood with a fiberglass skin is fine in my book for one-offs, but a purchased glass hull sure saves time.

And a classic steam launch screams out for wood, brass, and varnish.

This is certainly a reason for asking. :)

[LONGBIKE]

I like to use wood for an older "steam era" or pleasure boat hull.
And fiberglass for a moderen steel hull.

So I like both, but wood is alot more fun to work with and it doesnt itch!

[tsenecal]

q) Do you prefer building your model's hull from wood or fiberglass?

a) Yes

[Prins Willem]

I've done both but I prefer FG. What soured me to wood hulls in RC boats was the Dumas USS Crockett. The kit I did before the Crockett was a Midwest harbor tug. That boat almost went together by itself. The Crockett was the opposite story. The same amount of time spend building the Crockett hull would have been less stressful in a Turkish prison. Also later on I had problems with the side planking coming loose from the transom and cracking the fiberglass. The model was long and the corners of the transom were vulnerable to impacts. A second layer of automotive fiberglass cloth over reinforcing strips cured the cracking after a lot of rework. There are boats that you would want in wood or need to do because no FG hull is available.

Currently a club member is having a mold made from my Caldercraft Erie RR tug hull. The kit has been out of production for many years. The planking was failing and it was a choice of doing the FG hull or retiring the boat. It was built by another club member who is no longer in the hobby due to poor eyesight. He's a good guy and a friend so keeping the model up and running was really the only choice. With a new FG hull it will go on indefinitely.

[dnchvs]

wood is more fun and more enjoyable....but for longevity u really can't beat glass

[Monahan Steam]

Hmm? The Caldercraft Erie RR tug hull? Never seen one of those before. Do you have any pictures?

[fooman2008]

interesting that this thread appears in an R/C board this a debate that has raged in full scale circles for at least two generations! Scale really is like full size! An argument the wood hull guys use is that wooden hulls have a little flex in them to cushion the ride a little, not sure of that really makes a difference in scale or not?
Foo

[der kapitan]

q) Do you prefer building your model's hull from wood or fiberglass?

a) Yes

Hee hee---, I really like that answer---. :D

[Prins Willem]

Some photos on my thread on the rebuild:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=855737&highlight=Akron

[-kno3-]

If I am building the hull, then I prefer wood. If I would get one ready made, I suppose I could live with fibreglass too.
But I like hulls where the wood planking is visible, even if it means more work.

[keith S]

All depends on the prodject. If a hull is available in fiberglass, oh yah. One off then do a hull in wood. More ofetn than not mine are fiberglass hulls!

[Monahan Steam]

There has been some interesting feedback on this topic thus far.

Let's try to narrow down the criteria a bit.

I have been asked a number of times over the last couple years to design and produce a steam launch kit for our engines or one that could be potentially used with other manufacturers equipment for that matter. We currently have the equipment and knowledge to both design and produce either a kit with a fiberglass hull or a plank on rib "Carvel" construction type hull. We have actually designed a number of late 19th and early 20th century kits already in our CAD and Naval Architecture software. We haven't produced these designs yet because up to this point in time we have not been sure if this is a direction we want to go in. However since this seems to be a topic that is being brought up more and more in conversations, I think it's worth exploring further.

The first steam launch that we are potentially interested in producing was originally built between 1890-1910 using the plank on rib "Carvel type" construction method. The ribs and planking were clearly visible from the inside of hull. Some of the original launches produced by the same company, using this same hull, also had interior vertical paneling installed around the open portion of the hulls interior. So if the model was constructed around a fiberglass hull, this wood paneling could easily hide a fiberglass hull. So this raises the question, we will be happy to design it and produce it but we need you to tell us what you would prefer. I personally would like to produce as exact of a replica to the original as possible meaning the hull would be built entirely from wood as well as from the same materials or better yet scale alternatives. Being realistic, what really matters at the end of the day isn't what I would prefer but more importantly what all of you would. So please lets hear your thoughts.

[-kno3-]

Just a few thoughts:
For me, the thing to keep in mind is how complicated or how easy this should be for the potential customer.
A wooden kit requires a lot a patience to put together, and not many are ready to devote the necessary time to it. A ready-made fibreglass hull would perhaps complement your ready-made steam plants better and reach more potential buyers that aren't able to build a wooden kit.
Those experienced in building wooden hulls would have no problem in making their own from scratch, to suit your steam plant, so they might be less inclined to buy a kit anyway.

[Prins Willem]

Knowing where you are going with your query puts a different slant on it. A classic steam launch just wouldn't look good on a glass hull (IMHO). Take a look at the steam launch that was entered in the Midwestern Model Ship Contest last weekend. It is a tribute model to a club member named Bob Potrykus, who did all his models in varnished wood, and machined his steam engine and related parts himself. The model pictured was built by his friend and fellow WSBA member Chuck Lewis.

Unfortunately I don't have photos of Bob's steam launch but I have put out a request for one and will post it if/when I get it.

[der kapitan]

Just a few thoughts:
For me, the thing to keep in mind is how complicated or how easy this should be for the potential customer.
A wooden kit requires a lot a patience to put together, and not many are ready to devote the necessary time to it. A ready-made fibreglass hull would perhaps complement your ready-made steam plants better and reach more potential buyers that aren't able to build a wooden kit.
Those experienced in building wooden hulls would have no problem in making their own from scratch, to suit your steam plant, so they might be less inclined to buy a kit anyway.
That's a good point. How many potential buyers are willing or able to build a wood hull? ;)

Still others may be skilled builders, but disinclind to devote that much time into a project---. :p

Go for the glass, it'll get them into the water quicker---. :)

[Monahan Steam]

Alright. :D

"Since similar feelings on this topic have been brought up on the MBM forum where this same question was asked I felt it was fitting to post the same reply on this forum."

I think some very important facts and points have been brought up here. It sounds like the GRP version so far would be a good starting point.

Now without being dragged out into the street and shot for mentioning this, can i ask your for your thoughts on maybe a third option?

Recently I acquired a Krick Victoria kit. As some of you already know the hulls on these kits are vacuum formed ABS. I am aware that there are mixed feelings about this material too, however I think I "might" (don't shoot me yet) have found a way to get the best of both worlds.

Now what I have done I am sure has been done many times already ( well I know "John Bogstandard" has) and that is to laminate wood strips on both the inside and outside of the ABS hull. I did this purely as an experiment to see how it would turn out. So far so good. I think this might be the best of both worlds because you get a lite weight hull from ABS, the water tight membrane plus the basic shape. By laminating the whole hull in wood you will both strengthen the ABS as well as achieve the look of an all wood hull.

I can tell you from building my model, this thing seems to be bullet proof. I was able to plank the entire inside and outside of the hull in four nights (after work of course) :rolleyes:

Being able to lay the wood strips down over a perfectly smooth hull form opposed to frames made for some very fast building times with flawless results. In fact since the wood strips laid down on the hull so nicely there wasn't much need for sanding! So this gave me yet another idea.....why not spend very little time sanding the hull only where it's really necessary so that the slight imperfections of the plank heights from one to the next and the wood grain would still be visible after the paint was applied. Again this was purely for entertainment and scientific study :rolleyes:

I have posted a picture of the launch where you can just make out the planks on the red water line area. They are actually visible on the white painted area too but they don't show up in this picture. I think if you wanted to build a none painted hull you could spend more time sanding and achieve a nice varnished look.

Ok.... you can commence firing now! :eek:

Please don't be afraid to tell me how you really feel about this third option. I am a big boy and can take it! Plus I have fairly thick skin so you really won't hurt my feelings.

[Monahan Steam]

Prins Willem,

That is a lovely looking launch!

[toesup]

Just a wild thought...

How about producing two versions... :rolleyes:

A totally wood kit for the more experienced builder..
A FG (or vac formed, if you must :p ) hull version for the less experienced builder...

[Kmot]

Planked ABS????????????? :eek:

I think that is brilliant! :D

[Aerominded]

I'm still not totally sold on ABS... 'glass is quite respectable... a finely finished wooden boat would probably suit your steam engines better...

I believe I saw a few of those at the last SFMYC event in April- beautiful powerplants!

[steveciambrone]

I built two steam models using ABS hulls and have not had a problem. Your approach sounds like a good idea and the results look excellent. I would not have the time to build a wood hull, ABS and glass is what I would buy and build.

Thanks
Steve

[peconic steam]

I've had more building experience with wood than f/g and each material has its own merits, dependent on the application. But for steam launches I feel wood is more appropriate as it can be finished to reflect the true nature of the boat to a more realistic standard.

[dnchvs]

the only scary thing with wood is you put a lot of effort to build a really nice hull and all it takes is one tiny hole in the f/g skin and you can puickly ruin the wood especially balsa....like i learned on my midwest lobsterboat when i didn't seal the screwholes for the skeg

[Prins Willem]

I received an answer to my request for photos of Bob Potrykus' models. The website he did is still up. Bob passed away in March 08 and I thought his site had been shut down. Take a look at the Rhodonna Lee. It is the kind of boat I think of when a steam launch is mentioned.

http://www.bobswoodboats.com

Monahan Steam some very nice launches have been made by kit bashing the Billings African Queen. She might be too small for a steam plant but I would think a larger hull would work fine. My reservations for ABS would be compatibility with fuels and what heat exposure (even low heat) might do to the material.

[Monahan Steam]

Hi Prins Willem,

Thank you for that link. Wow, Bob was a very talented individual! I spent the last hour or so looking at his website. His work is fantastic. I am sorry to hear that he passed away.

I am familiar with the African queen. It is a classic boat! It would be suitable for smaller steam plants.

I am interested in producing a model or models that have not been offered before which I believe is what most people would be interested in seeing happen. Whether or not this happens is another story. Your friend Bob seemed to have chosen to built unique models himself. Your right, his steam launch is a thing of beauty! Thanks for sharing that.

As far as the ABS thingy goes....I am not set in stone to go this route with our kits. It has however already been done for many years by Krick with the steam launches they produce. They have sold so many of those kits, it's kinda like the plague. Their models do not cover the ABS hull with anything at all and I haven't heard of anyone having problems with them. There is a number of these kits in our local club and they all have steam plants in them.

What I am suggesting is the possibility to cover the ABS with wood like I have already done with my current project which would add more heat resistance to the hull. ABS is fine for "open" type steam boats. I don't feel that it would be a wise decision to use ABS for "closed" hull steam boats such as tugs. That would probably result in a big gooey nautical themed blob of melted plastic floating on the surface of the pond with your steam plant resting at the bottom.

[Aerominded]

I would have far more concerns about the long term with ABS than with any other of materials listed... I'm sure it would be fine, near term though and a 'quick and easy' to get on the water... but that seems to be missing the point... I would expect "pride of ownership" of one of your engines would be very long term-

[Monahan Steam]

Here is some more information on ABS.

Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene

(ABS) (chemical formula (C8H8• C4H6•C3H3N)n) is a common thermoplastic used to make light, rigid, molded products such as piping (for example plastic pressure pipe systems), musical instruments (most notably recorders and plastic clarinets), golf club heads (used for its good shock absorbance), automotive body parts, wheel covers, enclosures, protective head gear, buffer edging for furniture and joinery panels, air soft BBs and toys, including Lego bricks[1]. ABS plastic ground down to an average diameter of less than 1 micrometer is used as the colorant in some tattoo inks. Tattoo inks that use ABS are extremely vivid. This vividness is the most obvious indicator that the ink contains ABS, as tattoo inks rarely list their ingredients [2].

It is a copolymer made by polymerizing styrene and acrylonitrile in the presence of polybutadiene. The proportions can vary from 15 to 35% acrylonitrile, 5 to 30% butadiene and 40 to 60% styrene. The result is a long chain of polybutadiene criss-crossed with shorter chains of poly(styrene-co-acrylonitrile). The nitrile groups from neighboring chains, being polar, attract each other and bind the chains together, making ABS stronger than pure polystyrene. The styrene gives the plastic a shiny, impervious surface. The butadiene, a rubbery substance, provides resilience even at low temperatures. For the majority of applications, ABS can be used between −25 and 60 °C as its mechanical properties vary with temperature. The properties are created by rubber toughening, where fine particles of elastomer are distributed throughout the rigid matrix.
Production of 1 kg of ABS requires the equivalent of about 2 kg of oil for raw materials and energy. It can also be recycled[3].

Properties

ABS is derived from acrylonitrile, butadiene, and styrene. Acrylonitrile is a synthetic monomer produced from propylene and ammonia; butadiene is a petroleum hydrocarbon obtained from the C4 fraction of steam cracking; styrene monomer is made by dehydrogenation of ethyl benzene - a hydrocarbon obtained in the reaction of ethylene and benzene. The advantage of ABS is that this material combines the strength and rigidity of the acrylonitrile and styrene polymers with the toughness of the polybutadiene rubber. The most important mechanical properties of ABS are resistance and toughness. A variety of modifications can be made to improve impact resistance, toughness, and heat resistance. The impact resistance can be amplified by increasing the proportions of polybutadiene in relation to styrene and also acrylonitrile although this causes changes in other properties. Impact resistance does not fall off rapidly at lower temperatures. Stability under load is excellent with limited loads.

Even though ABS plastics are used largely for mechanical purposes, they also have good electrical properties that are fairly constant over a wide range of frequencies. These properties are little affected by temperature and atmospheric humidity in the acceptable operating range of temperatures.[4] The final properties will be influenced to some extent by the conditions under which the material is processed to the final product; for example, molding at a high temperature improves the gloss and heat resistance of the product whereas the highest impact resistance and strength are obtained by molding at low temperature.

ABS polymers are resistant to aqueous acids, alkalis, concentrated hydrochloric and phosphoric acids, alcohols and animal, vegetable and mineral oils, but they are swollen by glacial acetic acid, carbon tetrachloride and aromatic hydrocarbons and are attacked by concentrated sulfuric and nitric acids. They are soluble in esters, ketones and ethylene dichloride.
The aging characteristics of the polymers are largely influenced by the polybutadiene content, and it is normal to include antioxidants in the composition. On the other hand, while the cost of producing ABS is roughly twice the cost of producing polystyrene, ABS is considered superior for its hardness, gloss, toughness, and electrical insulation properties. However, it will be degraded (dissolve) [5] when exposed to acetone. ABS is flammable when it is exposed to high temperatures, such as a wood fire. It will "boil", then burst spectacularly into intense, hot flames.

References

1. ABS - acrylonitrile butadiene styrene On Designsite.dk, lists applications. Retrieved 27 October 2006.
2. Biology News: Is tattoo ink safe?
3. Plastics Recycling
4. Harper C.A., Handbook of plastic and elastomers, McGraw-Hill, New York, 1975, pp. 1-3,1-62, 2-42, 3-1
5. Vintage Computing and Gaming | Archive » Why Super Nintendos Lose Their Color: Plastic Discoloration in Classic Machines

I hope this sheds a little more light on this material.

Nick

[Aerominded]

Hee hee, I have close, personal and sometimes painful experience with a restoration of 40+ year old ABS hulled project... it isn't so much ABS- though it does has some faults- depending on how well built it was to begin with- it is the engineering and the glue that holds an ABS boat together that become real problems.

A wooden hull can be engineered to live a longer, happier life than an ABS Vac formed hull. (strictly my own opinion) :)

Again, I'm not just talking 5, 10 or 15 years...

[Monahan Steam]

Yup, I know what you mean. I wouldn't use ABS by it's self. I found with laminating it with wood strips forms a "composite like" hull which strengthens the whole thing substantially. Unfortunately due to the chemical "make up" of ABS, it will still be in land fills long after we are all gone. So I doubt the life expectancy issue for a model boat hull will be as much as an issue as you might feel it would be. Unfortunately again for the land fills, covering the whole hull inside and out with wood will only serve to protect the ABS from sun damage and other things that might otherwise cause it to break down over decades.

[Monahan Steam]

Just in case my earlier posting about "ABS" didn't bore you all to death here is some inside info on CA glue. Enjoy. :)

Cyanoacrylate


Cyanoacrylate is the generic name for cyanoacrylate based fast-acting glues such as methyl 2-cyanoacrylate, ethyl-2-cyanoacrylate (commonly sold under trade names like The Original Super Glue and Krazy Glue), n-butyl cyanoacrylate (used in the veterinary glues Vetbond and LiquiVet and skin glues like Indermil and Histoacryl). 2-octyl cyanoacrylate is the medical grade glue encountered under various trade names, e.g. SurgiSeal, FloraSeal, Dermabond, Nexaband, and others. Cyanoacrylate adhesives are sometimes known as "instant glues". The abbreviation "CA" is commonly used for industrial grades.

Uses

Cyanoacrylate is a tenacious adhesive, particularly when used to bond non-porous materials or those that contain minute traces of water. It is also very good at bonding body tissue, and while this can be a bothersome (or even dangerous) side effect during everyday use, it has been exploited for the benefit of suture-less surgery.

Cyanoacrylate glue has a low shearing strength, which has also led to its use as a temporary adhesive in cases where the piece can easily be sheared off at a later time. Common examples include mounting a workpiece to a sacrificial glue block on a lathe and also tightening pins and bolts.

Cyanoacrylates are often used to assemble prototype electronics, flying model aircraft, and as retention dressings for nuts and bolts. Their effectiveness in bonding metal and general versatility have also made them popular amongst modeling and miniatures hobbyists. They are used to re-harden the boxes and shanks of ballerinas' pointe shoes as well.

Cyanoacrylate glue's ability to resist water has made it popular with marine aquarium hobbyists for fragging corals. The cut branches of hard corals such as Acropora can be glued to a piece of live rock or Milliput substrate to allow the new frag to grow out.

Standard cyanoacrylate adhesive does not bond well to smooth glass, although there are special formulations which are more suitable. A mechanical adhesive bond may be formed around glass fibre mat or tissue to reinforce joints or to fabricate small parts.

When added to baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), cyanoacrylate glue forms a hard, lightweight filler/adhesive (baking soda is first used to fill a gap then the adhesive is dripped into the baking soda). This works well with porous materials that the glue doesn't work well with alone. This method is sometimes used by aircraft modelers to assemble or repair polystyrene foam parts. It is also used to repair small nicks in the leading edge of composite propellor blades on light aircraft. Note that the reaction between cyanoacrylate and baking soda is very exothermic (heat producing) and also produces noxious vapors.

Cyanoacrylate is used as a forensic tool to capture latent fingerprints on non-porous surfaces like glass, plastic, etc.[1] Cyanoacrylate is warmed to produce fumes which react with the invisible fingerprint residues atmospheric moisture to form a white polymer (polycyanoacrylate) on the fingerprint ridges. The ridges can then be recorded. The developed fingerprints are, on most surfaces (except on white plastic or similar), visible to the naked eye. Non-visible or poorly visible prints can be furthermore enhanced by applying a luminescent or non-luminescent stain.

Thin CA glue is also used as a wood finish, particularly among wood turners. It can give a fast drying, glossy finish to wood.

Some rock climbers use cyanoacrylate to repair damage to the skin on their fingertips. Similarly, stringed-instrument players can form protective finger caps (in addition to callouses) with cyanoacrylates.

Superglue was in veterinarian use for mending bone, hide, and tortise shell by at least the early 1970s. The inventor of cyanoacrylates, Harry Coover, said in 1966 that a superglue spray was used in the Vietnam war to retard bleeding in the wounded, whilst they were being transported to hospital. As it can irritate the skin, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration did not approve superglue's civilian medical use until 1998 when a variant called 2-octyl-cyanoacrylate was developed.

Some glues, e.g. Super glue and Krazy glue, are believed to be 100% ethyl cyanoacrylate. Other glues may be a composition, e.g. 91% ECA, 9% poly(methyl methacrylate), <0.5% hydroquinone, and a small amount of organic sulfonic acid. [2]

Properties

In its liquid form, cyanoacrylate consists of monomers of cyanoacrylate molecules. Methyl-2-cyanoacrylate (CH2=C(CN)COOCH3 or C5H5NO2) has a molecular weight equal to 111.1, a flashpoint of 79 °C, and 1.1 times the density of water. Ethyl-2-cyanoacrylate (C6H7NO2) has a molecular weight equal to 125 and a flashpoint of >75°C. To facilitate easy handling, adhesives made with cyanoacrylate are usually formulated so that the glue is more viscous and gel-like.

Generally, cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin which rapidly polymerises in the presence of water (specifically hydroxide ions), forming long, strong chains, joining the bonded surfaces together. Because the presence of moisture causes the glue to set, exposure to moisture in the air can cause a tube or bottle of glue to become unusable over time. To prevent an opened container of glue from setting before use, it must be stored in an airtight jar or bottle with a package of silica gel.


Polymerization of methyl-2-cyanoacrylate
Another important trait is that cyanoacrylate sets quickly, often in less than a minute. A normal bond reaches full strength in two hours and is waterproof. Accelerators such as toluidine trigger setting in two or three seconds, with some loss of strength.

Acetone, which is commonly found in nail polish remover, is a widely available solvent capable of softening cured cyanoacrylate. Nitromethane is also an excellent solvent. Methylene chloride is the most effective solvent, but is toxic. Gamma-butyrolactone is also effective at removing cured cyanoacrylate, and has low toxicity.

Low temperatures cause cured cyanoacrylate to become brittle. Cyanoacrylate's bonds can be weakened (allowing disassembly) by placing a glued object in a household freezer for several hours. Opened containers of cyanoacrylate glue can also be delayed from prematurely setting by storing the containers in the household refrigerator.

Discovery

Cyanoacrylates were invented in 1942 by Dr. Harry Coover and Fred Joyner of Kodak Laboratories during experiments to make a special extra-clear plastic suitable for gun sights. Although not appropriate for the gun sights, they did find that cyanoacrylates would glue together many materials with incredible strength and quick action. Seeing possibilities for a new adhesive, Kodak developed "Eastman #910" (later "Eastman 910") a few years later as the first true "super glue." Others have followed, including Super Glue and Krazy Glue.

There are urban legends about the first usages of Cyanoacrylates being on the battle fields to close soldiers' wounds.

Reaction with cotton

Applying cyanoacrylate to materials made of cotton or wool (such as cotton swabs, cotton balls, and certain yarns or fabrics) results in a powerful, rapid exothermic reaction. The heat released may cause minor burns, and if enough cyanoacrylate is used, the reaction is capable of setting the cotton product in question on fire, as well as releasing additional irritating vapor in the form of white smoke.[3]

Information found on Material Safety Data Sheets for cyanoacrylate instruct users not to wear cotton or wool clothing, especially cotton gloves, when applying or handling cyanoacrylates.[4]

Toxicity

The fumes from CA are a vaporized form of the cyanoacrylate monomer that irritate sensitive membranes in the eyes, nose and throat. They are immediately polymerized by the moisture in the membranes and become inert. These risks can be minimized by using CA in well ventilated areas. About 5% of the population can become sensitized to CA fumes after repeated exposure, resulting in flu-like symptoms.[5] It may also act as a skin irritant and may cause an allergic skin reaction. The ACGIH assign a Threshold Limit Value exposure limit of 200 parts per billion. On rare occasions inhalation may trigger asthma. There can be no singular measurement of toxicity for all cyanoacrylate adhesives as there is a wide variety of adhesives that contain various cyanoacrylate formulations.

The United States National Toxicology Program and the United Kingdom Health and Safety Executive have concluded that the use of ethyl cyanoacrylate is safe and that additional study is unnecessary.[6] 2-octyl cyanoacrylate degrades much more slowly due to its longer organic backbone which slows the degradation of the adhesive enough to remain below the threshold of tissue toxicity. Due to the toxicity issues of ethyl cyanoacrylate, the use of 2-octyl cyanoacrylate for sutures is preferred.

References

1. Eric W. Brown "The Cyanoacrylate Fuming Method"
2. [1]
3. Spontaneous Combustion ! - How To Video
4. "Material Safety Data Sheet". Retrieved on 2008-06-09.
5. Bob Smith Industries - Hobby FAQ
6. Methyl Cyanoacrylate and Ethyl Cyanoacrylate
• Fernandez, Tania (Dr) and Bliskovsky, Val (Dr). "Cyanoacrylate Technology: Stay Glued", Pharmbiz.com, 2 January 2003.
• Hayes, Sharon Caskey. "Discovery of Super Glue helped land Coover in National Inventors Hall of Fame", Kingsport Times-News, July 11, 2004.
• Jueneman, F, "Stick it to um", Industrial Research & Development, August 1981, p. 19.
• Perry LC: An evaluation of acute incisional strength with Traumaseal surgical tissue adhesive wound closure. Dimensional Analysis Systems Inc.
• Quinn, J., & Kissack, J., "Tissue Adhesives for Laceration Repair During Sporting Events", Clinical Journal of Sports Medicine, Vol. 4 No. 4, 1994, p. 245.
• Schwade, Nathan D. "Wound Adhesives, 2-Octyl Cyanoacrylate", eMedicine article, 10 April 2002.
• Vinters HV, Galil KA, Lundie MJ, Kaufmann JC: The histotoxicity of cyanoacrylates. A selective review. Neuroradiology 1985; 27(4): 279–91.
• U.S. Patent 2,768,109 Alcohol-Catalyzed α-Cyanoacrylate Adhesive Compositions, filed June 1954, issued October 1956.

Hmm? I wonder if anyone is still awake after reading all of this? :rolleyes:

[herrmill]

I've been sitting on the edge of my seat reading this in-between emails & flogging the staff this morning. :D

I have to say its been interesting reading comments here vs. that site on the other side of the pond where you've also been posting. IMHO, I think a planked ABS system has merit.

[Aerominded]

...So I doubt the life expectancy issue for a model boat hull will be as much as an issue as you might feel it would be...

I like to think they have the possibility of out living us (the builders)... I know many do- ;)

The ABS/plank system certainly has merit- Again though, I'm just not sure I'm convinced about it being a good engineering solution, long term... If something goes wrong with wood, it can be repaired/replaced... when something goes wrong with molded ABS plastic... well, I hope it is still in production and you can get a replacement or it is still just good enough to pull a mould from. :)

Re: my latest restoration project, I would have been much happier restoring a wood or 'glass boat- ABS does not provide many working options down the road.

again, just my opinion though-

The planked, vac formed hull does appear to produce fine results and could be very appealing from a market perspective!