Very bad HL customer service experience

[javaduke]

Just wanted to share my story with you. HL had pretty good reviews in the past so I decided to order my plane there. The plane was shipped very fast and everything was OK until it crashed and I figured out that the problem was with bad servo. Below is a copy of my letter to them that I sent yesterday (and all I got so far was automated response - they didn't even bother to respond!)

Dear HL customer service,

I am very disappointed by the quality of service that you provide.
Here is my story. After my plane crashed I ordered some spare parts.
Two of them were on back order at the moment and I was told that it
takes about a week and a half to get them in stock. Shortly after that
I figured out that what caused the crash was defective servo. I
contacted customer service on April 2nd and told them about the
problem and they told me that the replacement servo will be shipped
next day. A week later servo still was not shipped so I contacted
customer service again and on April 13th I received the following
email:

Dear ****,

Thank you for placing your order with Hobby-Lobby. We have been providing
radio-control fun for over 40 years! We know you had a choice with whom y
you do business and we appreciate your choosing Hobby-Lobby! Your order number

Your order will be shipped to:
*****

The following items are in your order:
Item Description: SPARE 9g SERVO FOR "RED VIPER"
Item Number: ST0211
Quantity Ordered: 1
Price Each: $0.00

Sub Total: $0.00
Sales Tax: $0.00
Freight: $0.00
Grand Total: $0.00

Today is April 29th and I haven't received anything yet.
I spoke with customer service again on April 22nd about backordered
parts and was told that it will take another 2 to 3 weeks to get the
parts - however, yesterday I saw them in stock! I chatted with CS
representative again and was told that my order is currently in the
warehouse ready to ship. Sorry, but I don't believe this. I hate to say that but I will never deal with you again.

[Mighty Manfred]

Your experience is inconsistent with that of 10's of thousands, including me.

[vintagemxr]

Your experience is inconsistent with that of 10's of thousands, including me.

Because his experience doesn't match yours does not mean there isn't a legitimate problem in this instance. I've been shopping with H-L on and off for three decades and have always been satisfied with their service. However, my most recent experience with their customer service people has been so unacceptable I finally filed a dispute with PayPal to try and get my money back for undelivered goods. H-L refuses to even acknowledge that I want the back order canceled and that a refund will be issued.

[Tom Moody]

I have been very happy with HL service for several years BUT the last few orders have been handled very poorly. They have really sunk to a very low point and I can no longer consider ordering from them.

Tom Moody

[ShowmestateFPV]

I ordered a instock plane over 2 weeks ago and status of order says in progress. I have called and emailed several times and nothing!
I decided to dispute paypal payment.
HORRIBLE service will not buy from again and i recommed everyone avoid this vender. We need to make a stand there is no reason customers should have to put up with this. I have had better service from China.

[Mighty Manfred]

Hm, sell, "under" new management. :(

[javaduke]

Your experience is inconsistent with that of 10's of thousands, including me.

Well, I agree :) I decided to order from HL after reading through many positive reviews, and in fact, my first experience with them was very positive. I received my order in about a week and everything was ok.
But now I have an issue which I've been trying to resolve with them for more than a month. I actually received some of the parts today (probably they shipped it right after I told them I won't be dealing with them anymore) but not the servo.

[Carlyle Harper]

The only thing I will be buying from HL ever again is the Sr. Telemaster ARF. Only because I can't find it anywhere else. Anybody know where else I can find one? Out of the four orders I placed with them including the last Thanksgiving day party, they managed to goof up three of them. It took multiple phone calls and e-mails to get those straightened out. Mainly an issue of shipping charge discounts and promotional discounts that were promised but not given. On the flip side I've never had a problem with the multiple orders I've placed with Tower, most every order I place with them has a discount code of some kind.

[Mighty Manfred]

Some place in Texas sells them.

[MidnightFlyers]

Pilots: I am the new owner and CEO of Hobby Lobby International, Inc and long before I bought this company, I couldn't help but notice and absorb the positive online discussions filled with imagination and satisfied customers. Of course, this new thread has caught my attention. Let me begin by thanking you for your business.

After reading your report and a few others in recent weeks, I thought it was time to jump in and make my first post to RC Groups.

This time, I think we blew it. I promise you that we will learn from it. This is a chance for a highly dedicated team to focus on addressing and solving the root cause of a service failure. It's also an opportunity for me to express my appreciation for your patience. In this case, the investigation is pointing me to a problem we just discovered with a loading routine in software we use for tracking trouble tickets and managing escalation. You did get an automated response and it was not something we were aware of. At this moment, I am not able to confirm this system burp is corrected yet, but now that it's on our radar, we will follow up with each customer impacted: starting with you.

From time to time, we can fail to live up to an otherwise stellar reputation for great customer service -- nobody here is happy about it when that occurs.

I am investing in this industry and more specifically, in the people that care so much about RC and about your experience. We committed to satisfy the growing demands for quality RC products when we implemented several new integrated systems in the last 90 days. We are not done -- it will never be done. That's how we get better at this, with every step, a step forward... and yes, we ARE experiencing a little turbulence, but change is a good thing and we all feel better about slugging through it, even with the occasional misstep like this, we are confident that we are updating our capabilities to better serve you.

We pay attention. We're not perfect. Please put your tray tables in their upright position and....thank you for flying with Hobby Lobby International.

[vintagemxr]

PM'd you.

Doug

[atrefrey]

Thank you MidnightFlyers. Do people have to resubmit support requests or were you able to read them. I sent mine a week ago, yesterday. (4/27). Is there a timeline of when to expect a reply now that you have found your problem?

Alan

[Mighty Manfred]

Pilots: I am the new owner and CEO of Hobby Lobby International, Inc and long before I bought this company, I couldn't help but notice and absorb the positive online discussions filled with imagination and satisfied customers. Of course, this new thread has caught my attention. Let me begin by thanking you for your business.

After reading your report and a few others in recent weeks, I thought it was time to jump in and make my first post to RC Groups.

This time, I think we blew it. I promise you that we will learn from it. This is a chance for a highly dedicated team to focus on addressing and solving the root cause of a service failure. It's also an opportunity for me to express my appreciation for your patience. In this case, the investigation is pointing me to a problem we just discovered with a loading routine in software we use for tracking trouble tickets and managing escalation. You did get an automated response and it was not something we were aware of. At this moment, I am not able to confirm this system burp is corrected yet, but now that it's on our radar, we will follow up with each customer impacted: starting with you.

From time to time, we can fail to live up to an otherwise stellar reputation for great customer service -- nobody here is happy about it when that occurs.

I am investing in this industry and more specifically, in the people that care so much about RC and about your experience. We committed to satisfy the growing demands for quality RC products when we implemented several new integrated systems in the last 90 days. We are not done -- it will never be done. That's how we get better at this, with every step, a step forward... and yes, we ARE experiencing a little turbulence, but change is a good thing and we all feel better about slugging through it, even with the occasional misstep like this, we are confident that we are updating our capabilities to better serve you.

We pay attention. We're not perfect. Please put your tray tables in their upright position and....thank you for flying with Hobby Lobby International.

Welcome-I, for one, thank "you" (all past and existing Hobby Lobby employees) for the wonderful service I've had and have no doubt that problems will be isolated and cured!

One irony of all this is that Hobby Lobby set such a high industry standard that almost no one could follow it, and now it has fallen "victim" to it. (This is high praise, indeed!)

[Trooper 8]

I ordered a instock plane over 2 weeks ago and status of order says in progress. I have called and emailed several times and nothing!
I decided to dispute paypal payment.
HORRIBLE service will not buy from again and i recommed everyone avoid this vender. We need to make a stand there is no reason customers should have to put up with this. I have had better service from China.

I'm having the same problem, except the money hasn't been even taken from my checking account yet after almost three weeks. Called multiple times and someone will be getting right on it but its to no avail. :( I have only heard good things about HL so hopefully this will be corrected soon.

[javaduke]

MidnightFlyers, thank you very much for the explanation. I hope all your technical issues will be resolved soon and you'll be back on track. Now my question is how can we the customers help you? :) Should we just resubmit all support tickets again? Should we PM you or any of HL employees directly? What is the procedure now? I really hope my issue will be an easy one for you as all I need is one small replacement servo for my Starmax F-18.

Thanks again,

JD

[ShowmestateFPV]

Great to hear from someone at HL, my email and phone calls i have never heard from anyone. I disputed my paypal with them. they took my money fast enough. I would like to see some butts jumped for these fowl ups.
I ordered yesterday from MS composites and it shiped today. My business will be with them. I hate to be sour i have ordered alot on the web and never had anything like this happen.

[Mighty Manfred]

Hm, maybe this is off topic, but as long as the head guy is looking, here is my thought about today's sale: it just doesn't interest me in any way.

Now, the ones that really got my blood going offered either a great discount on the most popular planes, or a global discount (20% or more) on one item.

I often couldn't justify full retail for a beautiful plane with She Who Must be Obeyed, but the "discounted" prices made begging easy!

Please.

[Captain Carlton]

MidnightFlyers,

From reading this, and from my personal experience in the past week...it seems things are in bad shape at HL.

In my case, I am calling to spend money with your company, and I go on hold forever, to finally be dumped in voice mail. I have done this twice in the past week. The first time, the sales team called me back about 24 hours later, when I was in a business meeting and couldn't talk...and the last time...they just never called me back.

I wouldn't have called except I cannot find the new AeroFly Simulator for Mac on the HL website.

I am not sure what to do at this point, except contact IPACS to see if another vendor sells the product.

As a long time HL customer (like 20 year ago was my first order) the problem HL is experiencing does not seem purely technical in nature, but also smells strongly like a substantial personnel problem. Given that there is new ownership, I am left wondering how many critical HL have departed. If this is the case, things are going to be rocky for a while until a new team can gets it feet underneath itself.

- Richard

[Mighty Manfred]

Yikes-this is awful-30 years to build up goodwill, and a few months to...?

[Flyboone]

Hi Richard,
As you probably know, our new website is not up to par yet. The Mac version for Aerofly is not yet available and is not on our website right now. We are working hard to solve the technical and customer service related issues. Our phones are flooded and we're selling the good stuff and it's hard to keep up. I can assure you that our commitment to our customers has not and will not change. We are here for you and will do our best to serve you.

Thanks,
Jason Cole
Hobby Lobby (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/)

[Mighty Manfred]

Jason, that's wonderful to HEAR, but as you know, ACTIONS speak louder than words-may I suggest you guys fish or cut bait faster, before this turns into groundless hysteria.

I would hate for this U.S. institution to sink to some lower level!

[hyperdyne]

I had a similar BAD customer service experience from HL. Sent back a defective flycam, they sent me a note saying they got it and everything looked ok for a replacement. ok, sounded great.

Waited a month and never got the replacement! Emailed them 3x, once through the website. Still nothing. Another week goes by and I finally get a response. Gee, sorry to be such a bother! The true meaning of apathy.

With their high prices I would expect a little better support. I wont buy anything from HL again, I always look elsewhere first.

[fudi50]

To the new owner [name not given?] of Hobby Lobby another day has passed without resolving my issue of a credit/refund or even contact my e-mail address and phone number or on file with you. As the new owner of Hobby Lobby I would have thought urgent contact would have been made with any one who has a grievence even if the problem could not be solved.I learned a valuble lessen whilst I was in buisness never put off untill tomorrow what you can do today further more rember your clients are your means of income.
Still disgruntled customer
David Alchin

[Mighty Manfred]

I have to agree-were it me, and I had this much capital at stake I'd be on the phone Johnny quick!

[aero104]

Mighty Manfred
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 623

Is this data under your name correct?

Chris

[Mighty Manfred]

Mighty Manfred
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 623

Is this data under your name correct?

Chris

Hi, Chris-I've probably spent $5,000 or more at HL in the last 3 years. What would you like to know? :confused:

By the way, I'm genuinely concerned about a seller I really like-L.A. Johnson gave me much wonderful advice, and I'm greatful for it. (See post 2, above)

[ShowmestateFPV]

FUDI50 im in the same boat as you, no contact at all via email or phone.
Wish i would have payed with a credit card rather than paypal. Fighting to get money back. What a sorry company!! HL is.

[Mighty Manfred]

FUDI50 im in the same boat as you, no contact at all via email or phone.
Wish i would have payed with a credit card rather than paypal. Fighting to get money back. What a sorry company!! HL is.

This must be a recent thing-I haven't bought in over a year but then it was a fantastic, service-oriented company.

[Captain Carlton]

Yah,

I do have some sympathy in this matter. I am in the technology business, and have seen the best laid plans go FUBAR. I am sure the vendor of their new system is stressing out.

I am content to let HL work out its issues, and pick things up when they are "good to go." Hopefully, HL will have a "We got our excrement together" sale...so find out that things are back to normal ... and I can pick up the phone and try again.

Staying at Arm's Length,

Richard

[aero104]

BL.A. Johnson gave me much wonderful advice, and I'm greatful for it.

I saw LA Johnson at the field the other day. I think he is finally getting used to retirement! (after being retired from McDonald-Douglas for what? 25years?) He now has many planes to fly and loads of time to do it. :) He was flying his AVA motorglider and loving every minute of it. It was good to see him out flying more.

Chris

[Mighty Manfred]

Please tell him that thousands on the "left coast" miss him.

[vintagemxr]

I just thought I'd pop back in here and say that H-L finally addressed the back order / billing problem I'd been writing them about. I've received e-mails from actual humans, something that doesn't seem to happen much at other busy companies. I'd not write H-L off just yet even if it's frustrating to have an unresolved issue hanging out there. Obviously something has gotten screwed up in their new system and it will take some fixing and some time to get it right again. I'm sure the new owner didn't spend serious dollars buying H-L just to watch it all swirl down the drain.

Doug

[warterman]

I have just order a rafale edf jet. For some reason my cc# did not go trough. They went out of the way to make me happy.It took three day's ot fix. All in all MR.WOODS made sure i got my order. I wish more of these on line rc stores had people like him on the payroll. Thank You Mr. woods.

[javaduke]

OK, looks like the issue is resolved, I just got shipping confirmation from HL. Thanks everyone for the assistance and I hope that all HL issues will be resolved soon.

[Lamedico]

I'm sorry to hear this. I just ordered some helicopter parts from HL on and I received no auto-reply from their system. So I called in later that day and I got a live person in about a minute (not bad) who confirmed that my order was received. I still haven't received shipping confirmation but it's only been about a day. In any event I hope they ship soon. I am not looking forward to haranguing and dilly dallying around with HL at this stage of the game. I just went through about 4 - 5 month of dilly dallying with another (non hobby related) company over an order that I was charged for back in january but never received

Back in december/January I ordered a helicopter from HL and received it promptly. Subsequent parts orders, customer support and defective but waranteed parts were handled and shipped promptly and professionaly. There shipping was a bit slow...3 - 5 days to receive shipping confirmation as opposed to the usual 1 day for most places. Still I got what I ordered in reasonable time. I hope I have the same experience again. I hope I am not in for months of headaches and arguing with HL over paid for but unreceived merchandise.

Lastly, if HL does provide lousy customer support they won't be in business long. There are plenty of other places that deal in rc related stuff all over the world. I'd hate to see HL go under because of bad cust support. Let's hope any problems are rectified quickly.

[Mig-15Pilot]

Why would Hobby Lobby lose business over bad customer support? They have the same stuff at higher prices than everyone else and still have customers ordering from them. Anyone who doesn`t mind getting gouged shouldn`t mind bad service, too... :rolleyes:

[Mighty Manfred]

I think that's a bit harsh, Mig.

[fudi50]

Hi Mig
couldn't agree more but in all fareness some of their products expense is from the Mfr., Example if you look at their quick servo wing release plugs from Graupner the photo shows male female and shroud @ $12.99 however if you order a pack what you get is male plus shroud now you have to go back and order the female @ $10.99 both of course + shipping, let ma also add Multiplex is the same way, it almost smacks of bait and switch, buy really just a good marketing tool for the Mfr.
Incedently I still have not heard from the owner of H/L
The Brit

[Lamedico]

It's odd. They charged the order to my credit card. Yet when I go to their website and check on my order status I get a message which says "failed order number or email verification". Yet when I called them last week they were able to look up my order using the same number. It seems like their web based system is screwed up. In any event I only placed the order this past hursday. If I don't see my order in a few days I guess I'll have to call them and see if they can tell me what's going on.

This turned out to be my error as well. I was entering my order number incorrectly. Once I entered it correctly the status of my order came up immediatly. it was shipped promptly,

[Mighty Manfred]

This is like watching the Titanic founder: it's awful, and sad.

[WTFLYR]

Mighty Manfred
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 623

Is this data under your name correct?

Chris
In fairness to MM, he could have been here for 10 years, had a trader rating of 500 great trades, and 10,000 posts. Then, some troll could have instigated him, to get him banned. If that were the case, I don't believe he would reply and give you that information, to answer your question.

Mighty, tell him it's not correct anyways, and that it's a software error. :D

[aero104]

Just a curiosity. 12 posts per day is impressive. No conspiracy here.

My dad has been ordering from hobby lobby since the 60's and no problems. Always gives kudos to the outstanding employees and supurb customer service and sales. He is recently coming back to R/C with an electrified old timer "miss America" with a spektrum dx6i. Talk about old meets new :-)

As for me, my first purchase was in the late 1970's and I have had zero problems with orders. Last year I spent many, many, many dollars at hobby lobby and i am completely satisfied with the service. Most of my orders are counter sales so I see a different picture than you guys. In my opinion, hobby lobby is a stronger company now than it has been in any point in it's history.

I know the recent glitch in the new computer system has caused some problems. I am 100% certain the outstanding employees of hobby lobby will make good on any issues you may have. Just read the posts above.

I personally will patiently wait for those guys to get the new computer system up and running and kinks worked out.

Chris

[Mighty Manfred]

Time will tell-I, for one, hope HL continues its fine work.

As for my posts, well, I'm retired and I enjoy learning or talking about this sport/industry.

[Captain Carlton]

Hey Chris,

That was my take. Seriously, I'll order what need (for now) from other vendors. HL can get its systems straightened out, and then I'll revisit the issue when they are "good to go." No way I want to inject my CC into their system right now.

- RC

[Lamedico]

mMybe Hobby Lobby is getting it all together again. I checked me order status on the parts that I ordered last week. So far so good. The order was received and shipped out. UPS should be delivering them tomorrow. Looks like HL is on the ball.

The only problems were that when I placed my order I didn't receive an order confirmation and I never received an email shipping confirmation. Otherwise everything else looks good. My order appears to have been processed and shipped out promptly.

[MMR]

Looks like they are getting back on track...

I placed an order in February (all the electronics for a full house glider) - almost all of it shipped right away, except 1 servo. I received confusing e-mails about shipments and backorders but nothing showed up.
So I called and was told the item was on backorder. Some time later (a couple of weeks or so) I checked the web site and the item showed that it was in stock!
So I called again and explained the situation - by now I'm getting somewhat worried, because they had charged my credit card the full amount - I was told they would ship one out right away. A couple of weeks passed and I'm getting ready to call the Credit Card company to file a complaint and the servo finally shows up!

I hope that they do get their act together - I have laways had very positive experiences with HL and it would be sad to loose them...

[Mighty Manfred]

I hope that they do get their act together - I have laways had very positive experiences with HL and it would be sad to loose them...

My feelings, too-however, from a PM I got from "Midnight" I doubt I'll ever buy again, at least while he is at the helm.

There is an old saw that goes something like this, "The customer is always right, [even when he or she is wrong.]"

Sum: there are no perfect customers, just customers, AND YOU EITHER WANT THEM OR YOU DON'T.

[mrshawn]

Same problem, new thread...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1048686#post12229220

[Naxos]

MIghty Manfred,

What did "Midnight" say to upset you in his PM? Can you give us a clue?

[Mighty Manfred]

The gist of it (as I construed it) was that "I" should be more tolerant of a person who identified himself with Hobby Lobby and wafted inferences about the number of my posts. I told Midnight and this "other" person that some retired folks, like me, just enjoy talking and learning about electric flight.

For my money, he had it backwards, and as long as this guy is at the helm my business goes elsewhere.

[aero104]

That would be me. I have done quite a bit of free consulting(?) for hobby lobby and occasionally do some odds and ends to help out my friends who work there. I am not a full or part time employee of hobby lobby. I helped in the design, setup and manuals for the pilot-1 planes and i answer questions online for free. That is why I have link under my name. If you notice, it goes to my YouTube account.
I am a captain for a major fractional jet charter company and spend thousands of dollars every year at hobby lobby. They have the best customer service and knowledge in the business. I have been using them since the 1970's and will continue to do so. They are getting the new computer system worked out everyday. I believe they are a stronger company today than any point in their history.

If you have a problem, i think that a phone call (and message if needed) is the best method to resolve your problem. I'm 100% confident they will resolve any issue you may have. They are very busy, not a scam.

So, I support www.hobby-lobby.com.

Chris

[fudi50]

Aero
You May Have A Wonderfull Relationship With H/l.you Make The Comment Those With Problems Should Make Contact Withh/l I Sugest You Review Some Of The Comments Made Including Mine. I Have Called Repeatedly Each Time After Being Placed On Hold The Automated Reply Transfers Me To A Fax Tone. I Have Left Three Messages Without An Answer. Perhaps As You Obvoiusly Have Inroads To H/l You Would Get Them To Contact Me
David Alchin 209 578 3976

[aero104]

I have forwarded your comments to several people, hopefully you will get a response very soon. I am sorry you have been disserviced. I am 100% sure they will make it right.
PM me directly if you don't hear anything by tuesday.

Chris

[Mighty Manfred]

That would be me. I have done quite a bit of free consulting(?) for hobby lobby and occasionally do some odds and ends to help out my friends who work there. I am not a full or part time employee of hobby lobby. I helped in the design, setup and manuals for the pilot-1 planes and i answer questions online for free. That is why I have link under my name. If you notice, it goes to my YouTube account.
I am a captain for a major fractional jet charter company and spend thousands of dollars every year at hobby lobby. They have the best customer service and knowledge in the business. I have been using them since the 1970's and will continue to do so. They are getting the new computer system worked out everyday. I believe they are a stronger company today than any point in their history.

If you have a problem, i think that a phone call (and message if needed) is the best method to resolve your problem. I'm 100% confident they will resolve any issue you may have. They are very busy, not a scam.

So, I support www.hobby-lobby.com.

Chris

Well, I hope you use better judgment in exercising your ATP rating than in heckling a poor, old soul like me.

As for Hobby Lobby, I have wonderful memories of it and the planes and gear bought there, but as long as "Midnight" is in control, I'm going elsewhere.

[WTFLYR]

MIghty Manfred,

What did "Midnight" say to upset you in his PM? Can you give us a clue?
Just getting a PM from someone in these instances upsets me. :D
If you're going to "tell me off", then do it in front of everyone. Confident people aren't afraid to speak their mind in front of everyone. That is, unless they enjoy using insults, profanities, and the like. In that case, I probably don't want to read their PM anyway.

[Greg Beshouri]

Hello Chris,

I likewise have spent thousands of dollars at Hobby-Lobby for many years. LA Johnson always provided great support and got me squarely set in this hobby. I have raved about Hobby Lobby many times in RCGROUPS.

But things have changed and it isn't just the website. I called today to follow up on a long delayed order. The person who answered the phone first lied to me regarding a back order. When I pointed out his story wasn’t consistent with information on the Website he changed his story but I still could not get a straight answer. When I requested an RMA for the partially shipped parts I no longer want he told me to go to the Website, he could not give me one. This is not the old Hobby Lobby.

Mark A. Cleveland, a.k.a. MidnightFlyers, you must have paid a pretty penny for Hobby-Lobby. As a President and CEO of a small business I have to say, listen up and deal with the real problems or loose that precious investment.

Greg

[fudi50]

104 did gat some action a lady e-mailed to say Freda no longer worked at H/L and she was given my case file, however sahe was having some dificulty location my particula return, I replied giving her what ever info I had available
Today I receivd an e-mail to say her supervisor had given permision to address my issue, So far I have not received a refund but it is early yet. Maybe now they will get their act together and please us P O customers.
The Brit

[Grohu]

Ok.. No F-16 from HL for me. Scared to get swamped in long pointless debates with CS.
Any alternatives guys where to look for good customer service?

[Greg Beshouri]

I am pleased to report that Jason solved my problem. Thanks Jason.

Everyone else at HL still seems a bit disorganized, but they have started to be responsive to RMA requests, etc.

Cheers

Greg

[bart4u]

Stay away from Hobby Lobby. I was tired of them saying the Aerofly for the Mac would be available at the the end of May. I called a few days ago and they said it would be available at the end of summer because of software issues. Well I just ordered the simulator from Sussex Model Centre in England. Should be here in California in four days. I have heard on other forums that Aerofly will not deal with Hobby Lobby.

[mattknn]

I have stopped dealing with Hobby-Lobby since early this year. Just plain sick and tired of getting no response from their customer service. I waited for almost two months for a replacement part there were supposed to send me. I just took my business elsewhere where I got much better service and much lower prices. I was talking to a club buddy last week and I was told that Hobby-Lobby took a turn for the worse after Mark Cleveland took over the company. Apparently Hobby-Lobby owes large sum of monies to quite a few of their suppliers and have defaulted on the payments. Many of their experienced staff have also since left the company apparently due to poor management. My advise is to stay away from Hobby-Lobby.

[bart4u]

Midnightflyers why is there such a big problem ordering Aerofly for the Mac. Trying to get a straight answer from your sales staff was impossible. I was told end of May then told end of summer. Europe stores have it and one of the stores is shipping it to me now. I was very unhappy with your sales staff and how they wasted my time.

[mattknn]

Many suppliers would definitely avoid doing business with Hobby Lobby if it is already defaulting on payments. Hobby Lobby would probably run out of stock for many items for a long time, so don't waste time waiting. It is much faster, cheaper, and safer to get your stuff elsewhere, as you have done.

[Flyboone]

Bart,
Let me apologize for the run around you received. We've been trying to handle the situation with Aerofly delicately. We learned that Aerofly Professional Deluxe contains unlicensed images of aircraft. By selling this product Hobby Lobby is exposed to possible litigation and damages. We informed Ikarus of their need to license the product or take out the offending images. We were forced to pull the product from our website until it is resolved.

Jason Cole
Hobby Lobby

[bart4u]

Jason,

You guys still wasted my time. Just be upfront with your customers instead of the run around. Simple as that. You lost me as a future customer.

Bart

[mattknn]

I remember a while ago Hobbico had to obtain a license for one of its Realflight models (Cessna if my memory serves me correctly) from Textron Innovations. Hobbico was solely liable for the licensing as the product manufacturer. None of its distributors or retailers were liable as per Textron. Of course Hobbico got the license later and it was not a big issue at all for Hobbico and all its distributors and retailers. I guess its the same thing with Aerofly. So the reason given for pulling the product does not hold water and is just a lame excuse. Hobby Lobby has other issues.

[jollyrogertoo]

If you are right about these other issues, it's a real tragedy.

[Flyboone]

There are no other issues. Ikarus is not a US company. We were contacted by Textrons lawyers and were told that we were liable for selling a non-licensed product. We have been working with Textron and Ikarus to come to a resolution. End of story.

Jason Cole
Hobby Lobby

[RC-135]

Your experience is inconsistent with that of 10's of thousands, including me.


His poor experience is 100% consistent with my recent experience! There is something very seriously wrong at Hobby-Lobby.

[denial15]

I originally posted this in the " Hobby-Lobby Service - EXCELLENT (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1082536)" thread, however I just found this one. For those interested in a good read about the derelict customer service Hobby Lobby has sunk to, it's worth your time.

I'm glad I found this thread. I thought I was the only one that had the feelings Hobby Lobby was in some serious turmoil to descend to such lows.

* * * *

I received the Rx ready version of the Mini F4 on Aug 6. I noticed early on during pre-flight checks that one of the elevators was sticking at full deflection. It appeared to be a setting related issue at first.

The stock settings required the servo to travel the full 45 degrees. It appeared to be something related to the control rod sticking because of the angle it was getting put at due to the full deflection of the servo.

Rather than bother customer service with having them help with a control setting, I thought it wold be fine to just try and solve the problem without causing a headache for them. WRONG MOVE!!!

I moved the control horn on the elevators to holes that were closer to the wing and reduced the throw on the servos. With the new new settings, it was getting the same amount of deflection at the elevator, but at only half of the servo travel rate. I tested it several times that way before flying and it appeared to solve the problem.

After less than a dozen flights, I did a loop and lost all elevator control. I intsantly knew what the problem was. I think the date of the fatal flight was the 15th. (9 days after receiving the plane)

The resulting crash was totally fatal. There is no chance to rebuild this thing. You can check some of the planes I have destroyed and rebuilt, so saying this is unrepairable is really saying something.

I was using the recommended AR500 with a DX7. I was about two minutes into the flight and less than 300' from me when the crash happened. I still had throttle and aileron control, so I know it was not a power or TX/RX related issue.

I had a problem with a FlyCamOne2 that was dealt with in an exceptional manner, I expected nothing less with this one. It was a clear cut issue of a defect in the plane. Hobby Lobby's website clearly states...

"We guarantee our product to be free from defect for 30 days after the date of purchase. If you find that an item you purchased from us is defective within that 30 day period, we will replace it at no charge to you. If the item has a manufacturer's warranty within the USA, please send it to them."

I figured this would be a no brainer since I was not aware the plane was defected, just a setting related issue.

I think I sent claim e-mail to them on Saturday. I heard back on Tuesday that because I had flown the plane after I found the problem, they would not do a warranty exchange. However, they did offer a 25% discount on a replacement airframe and a free servo since that was what was defective.

I wouldn't even accept a free empty airframe and the servo as the LiPo is destroyed, and I'm quite certain the crash has damaged the existing servos and other electrical and mechanical components of the plane. Even if I had called in before flying and was offered a replacement servo, I would have required a replacement plane as the fuse is glued together and the servos are not easily replaced without doing some major hacking. I don't want to have a brand spanking new, hacked up looking plane.

After additional e-mails and calls in to customer service, they are adamant about their stand that I knew the plane was defective and shouldn't have flown it.

I guess this is incredibly frustrating because had I known the servo was bad, I wouldn't have tried to put a band-aid on the problem and try to muddle through anyway. It appeared to be a setting related issue and that is not something that would warrant sending the plane in for replacement.

[denial15]

That would be me. I have done quite a bit of free consulting(?) for hobby lobby and occasionally do some odds and ends to help out my friends who work there. I am not a full or part time employee of hobby lobby. I helped in the design, setup and manuals for the pilot-1 planes and i answer questions online for free. That is why I have link under my name. If you notice, it goes to my YouTube account.
I am a captain for a major fractional jet charter company and spend thousands of dollars every year at hobby lobby. They have the best customer service and knowledge in the business. I have been using them since the 1970's and will continue to do so. They are getting the new computer system worked out everyday. I believe they are a stronger company today than any point in their history.

If you have a problem, i think that a phone call (and message if needed) is the best method to resolve your problem. I'm 100% confident they will resolve any issue you may have. They are very busy, not a scam.

So, I support www.hobby-lobby.com.

Chris


NOT the case. If you read the problems in the linked thread in the above post, you will see how recalcitrant they have been to deal with.

Maybe you're just lucky you are there in person. It's a lot harder for them to ignore you when you're standing at their front counter. When you are stuck having to go through e-mails (whish are not replied to), or voice mails (that are not returned), or RCGroups (which are ignored), not a whole lot gets accomplished.

[speed2004]

I have always gotten good service from jason and the staff, in fact I have visited the store several times and bought items in May from them on the way home to IUllinois. I really think they are trying. Denial, I got a bad right servo on my brand new parkzone ME109 right from Horizon (no mfg is immune-these come from China, remember?)
I exhanged it, instead of flying it. You probably should have done same to save some grief.

[denial15]

Right. I agree, and for the last five years or however long I have been ordering stuff from them, it has been the same. In this case, it did not look like the servo was the problem. If I had actually thought it was the servo, I would have boxed it up and sent it back immediately. The stock servo travel rate was making the servo go nearly past the 45' so it was almost turning back on itself. It looked like the control rod was just getting stuck on itself from the huge travel range. I reduced the throw rate and moved the control rod to another hole on the horn and after testing it again, it looked like the problem was solved. Unfortunately, it wasn't. Now they're saying I messed with it and I made it crash.

[racie34]

Since I can remember HL has always been there for the electric community and glider clan etc.....offering alot of hard to get items and superior service...supportive of forums(such as this)..flyin's, active at most trade shows and many other modeler related adventures.
Accept that mistakes can happen and do.......Bruce

[denial15]

I agree. That's how they used to be. Other than very few selections now though, they don't offer that much that you can't get elsewhere. And their prices definitely aren't as competitive enough.

The reason I chose Hobby Lobby over the Mini F4 offered by Banana Hobby is because I've always had good experiences with Hobby Lobby. I know the F4 they carried was Chinese stuff just like Banana Hobby's, but I figured Hobby Lobby would back me up sooner than Banana Hobby. I was wrong and it cost me more $$ than I'm willing to risk at Hobby Lobby again.

They wouldn't even put in writing what they told me over the phone so my AMEX could cover it independent and separate form Hobby Lobby. That's piss poor customer service if you ask me.

[Flyboone]

Denial sent in a case that stated...

Quote: "I just purchased the Mini F4 Phantom on 30 July. I received it the first week in August. I noticed while I was programming the plane one of the elevator servos would bind in the "up" position occasionally. I tested it several times on high and low rates, and the problem only presented itself while on the high rates. I have since been flying on low rates where the problem has not previously presented itself during normal pre-flight checks."

That fact that the servo was binding before you flew regardless of high or low rates is a problem. You could have called in and got a new servo before flying. You flew it knowing that it had occasionally bound and crashed. That is your fault. We offered to replace the airframe and the servo so you could get back in the air. That wasn't good enough and you chose to resort to profanity on a phone call that we ended. That's not the way to handle a situation and we will not accept that kind of treatment.

Jason Cole
Hobby Lobby

[denial15]

Denial sent in a case that stated...

Quote: "I just purchased the Mini F4 Phantom on 30 July. I received it the first week in August. I noticed while I was programming the plane one of the elevator servos would bind in the "up" position occasionally. I tested it several times on high and low rates, and the problem only presented itself while on the high rates. I have since been flying on low rates where the problem has not previously presented itself during normal pre-flight checks."

That fact that the servo was binding before you flew regardless of high or low rates is a problem. You could have called in and got a new servo before flying. You flew it knowing that it had occasionally bound and crashed. That is your fault. We offered to replace the airframe and the servo so you could get back in the air. That wasn't good enough and you chose to resort to profanity on a phone call that we ended. That's not the way to handle a situation and we will not accept that kind of treatment.

Jason Cole
Hobby Lobby

As I tried to explain over and over, I realized after it had crashed, it was the servo that was binding not the control rod. After the crash was when I realized it was the servo that was binding. It looked like the servo was getting stuck because of the angle of the control rod was getting stuck because of the high rates.

I never resorted to profanities. That is a lie. Was I upset? Absolutely, I was. I tried to ask what happened to all of the people who didn't know it was an equipment problem that caused their plane to crash. I just feel sorry for all the people that have this plane and crashed it, thinking they dumb thumbed it, when it was actually the planes fault.

Larry told me it was no fault of the servo and I tinkered with the plane so much, I made it crash. That is absolutely absurd. I told him it was unbelievable what he was saying. I asked him if all of the equipment seemed fine, and it was just a control setting that was wrong with it, if he would send it back. He said he would. Another lie. I told him it was a joke and "you've got to be kidding me", or "you're unbelievable". (something along those lines.) I'm sorry, but swearing is not in my nature. The closest thing I may havve said as far as an insult would be to tell him he is crazy. If that's what you consider obscenities, then I feel really sorry for you.

And to address another lie, you never offered me a replacement airframe. The closest you came to that was a 25% discount on a fuselage, not the entire airframe. Had you offered the airframe, I would have taken that. I have absolutely no intention of putting those electronics back in the plane.

[racie34]

Denial15.......it's kinda hard to grasp your view here...you flew a plane with a known problem? then what? if it doesn't work out someone else should pay?
Let's say you buy a new car, and the brakes dont feel quite how you think they should.....and you pile it up at an intersection......should you have been driving it or had it towed? was approaching the intersection with faulty brakes on your mind?
One would hope you thumped your head on the windshield at that point and learned a bit before calling Ford or Chevy to demand a refund......Bruce

[Flyboone]

OK, my bad on the airframe. I misunderstood Larry when he told me what he offered to do for you. You are the only customer that Larry has hung up on since he's been here. I'm sure that discussion got pretty heated. His offer still stands of a free servo and 25% off and heck we'll do that on the airframe or the fuse, whichever you want.

Jason Cole

[denial15]

Denial15.......it's kinda hard to grasp your view here...you flew a plane with a known problem? then what? if it doesn't work out someone else should pay?
Let's say you buy a new car, and the brakes dont feel quite how you think they should.....and you pile it up at an intersection......should you have been driving it or had it towed? was approaching the intersection with faulty brakes on your mind?
One would hope you thumped your head on the windshield at that point and learned a bit before calling Ford or Chevy to demand a refund......Bruce

If that were the case, yes, I would agree with that. The more accurate representation would be if you bought a car with the stereo too loud. Would you turn it down, or take it back to the dealer to have them fix it?

As I have explained multiple times, the problem initially presented itself as a setting related issue. It appeared the stock settings were making the servo travel too far. I reduced the travel rate via my DX7, and moved the control horn clevis to a hole closer to the elevator so the elevator travel rate would be the same, but the servo was not having to travel as far.

I tested it a few times after making the adjustment and it did not present itself again until the day of the crash. (something like 6 days later and around 12 flights, I'd have to look back to be exact) For what it's worth, the servo is still in the jammed position.

[racie34]

Alot of things jam when pounded into the ground.........true?

[denial15]

Yes. That's why I prefaced it with "for what it's worth". But when you do a loop, and the plane stops responding to elevator, and you have all other controls, are within 200-300 ft on a DX7 with the recommended AR500 RX, approx. 2 min into the battery. There's not a whole lot else it could be.

[racie34]

Yes. That's why I prefaced it with "for what it's worth". But when you do a loop, and the plane stops responding to elevator, and you have all other controls, are within 200-300 ft on a DX7 with the recommended AR500 RX, approx. 2 min into the battery. There's not a whole lot else it could be.

yes there is

[denial15]

There's more to it than that. I've gone over it several times. I'm not trying to get into an argument and I'm not going to argue it further. If you're genuinely concerned about finding out what happened and how it has been discovered, I'm sure you can read through my other posts and figure it out. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just sick of beating a dead horse. If that does not suffice your interest, feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to give you my cell number and we can talk about it person to person. A lot gets distorted in text.

The issue goes way beyond the plane. There's still the service aspect of things. That's what this thread is about. The service I received was not what it should have been in this case. There isn't really a dispute about whether the servo actually locked up, however there is some obvious differences about when the problem was discovered.

No one at Hobby Lobby was willing to listen to my explanation of things. Once they saw "I noticed while I was programming the plane one of the elevator servos would bind in the "up" position occasionally." in my very first e-mail, it was the end of story as far as they were concerned.

I'm sure by now things have escalated far beyond a simple plane exchange. Feelings have been hurt, regretful things have been said on both sides. I just don't see any amicable resolution to things.

The reason I am pressing the service issue so far is AFTER I realized the plane exchange was out of the question, all I needed was for Hobby Lobby to put in writing what they told me over the phone so my AMEX could warranty the plane. That is when they started ignoring me and not returning my calls.

They refused to warranty the plane because they said I ruined the plane by tinkering with it and crashed it, and they won't even do something so simple as putting that in writing so my AMEX could cover the loss. How on Earth could that be misconstrued as anything other than poor service?

[j5cub]

There's more to it than that. I've gone over it several times. I'm not trying to get into an argument and I'm not going to argue it further. If you're genuinely concerned about finding out what happened and how it has been discovered, I'm sure you can read through my other posts and figure it out. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just sick of beating a dead horse. If that does not suffice your interest, feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to give you my cell number and we can talk about it person to person. A lot gets distorted in text.

The issue goes way beyond the plane. There's still the service aspect of things. That's what this thread is about. The service I received was not what it should have been in this case. There isn't really a dispute about whether the servo actually locked up, however there is some obvious differences about when the problem was discovered.

No one at Hobby Lobby was willing to listen to my explanation of things. Once they saw "I noticed while I was programming the plane one of the elevator servos would bind in the "up" position occasionally." in my very first e-mail, it was the end of story as far as they were concerned.

I'm sure by now things have escalated far beyond a simple plane exchange. Feelings have been hurt, regretful things have been said on both sides. I just don't see any amicable resolution to things.

The reason I am pressing the service issue so far is AFTER I realized the plane exchange was out of the question, all I needed was for Hobby Lobby to put in writing what they told me over the phone so my AMEX could warranty the plane. That is when they started ignoring me and not returning my calls.

They refused to warranty the plane because they said I ruined the plane by tinkering with it and crashed it, and they won't even do something so simple as putting that in writing so my AMEX could cover the loss. How on Earth could that be misconstrued as anything other than poor service?

Just found this thread and jumped to the end to see if there were still any problems with HL. I would not buy anything from them based on this and other stories I have read. When a company gets a negative thread started on them and they are still nit picking their customers like this they will lose business. They have lost mine. Glad to have found this before any black friday purchases.

[denial15]

I got a PM form Jason today. He did offer to write the letter required for AMEX, however, It looks like my AMEX is going to cover it anyway. I just wish I could have got something from them sooner. :(

Although delayed, thanks for your help Jason.
Dan.

Who knows, maybe I'll change my mind and decide to pick up an airframe sometime down the road. I really liked how this plane flew.

Also for what it's worth regarding Jason - "Flyboone". I think he kind of got thrown into a crummy situation between Larry Powell and me. I don't have any hard feelings against Jason. I feel quite certain the problems I encountered went way above him or anything he could do to resolve it sooner.