Extreme Composite Edge 2.6 video of short flight posted!!

[hcuellart]

Well guys my Edge is finally here and I am getting ready to begin the build.
I will post some pics of the build, but it will be slow as I don't have a lot of time, but well let's how things go.
Here are the pics of the plane.

The setup will be the following:
Hacker A150-8
HackerMaster 220 ESC
Mejzlik 27-10th propeller
14S 2P 5600mAh lipo
6 X Hitec 7955 on direct lipos
Smart-Fly Power Expander Sport
Fromeco Wolverine Switch
Azure Hobbies 5" carbon fiber spinner
Carbon fiber wing tube
Several other things I'll be posting during the build...

Any advice or tips will be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks for your input,
Homero Cuellar

[pootman]

Wow! Subscribed.

[BingWing]

go for it ! This sounds great

[hcuellart]

Thanks guys, I didn't have much time on the weekend but I made the base for the motor consisting of a 1/4" plywood sandwiched with 1mm structural carbon fiber plate.
I'll post the base later as it is still on the homemade press till its fully cured...

[BoneDoc]

Are you going to make exit holes for the air to escape through?

[lazyboyflyer]

Your plane looks awesome, but I think your motor is too big. The Hacker A100 is plenty for your size plane, JMO.

[BoneDoc]

On a lighter setup, i bet A80 is even enough.

[Sid3ways]

:eek: :eek: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :eek: :eek:

[jayvo86]

I've always wanted a composite arf....but the $$ is an issue. I am looking forward to seeing this one complete.

Josh

[hcuellart]

Are you going to make exit holes for the air to escape through?
Most definitely I will make some slots on the back for the air to pass through...
I too thought this was a bit overpowered, but if it works out, I might change it to a 40%. I'll have to see how the plane behaves ;) ...
Thanks for your input guys!!

[hcuellart]

Here is the motor mount, it is very rough at the moment but its a start, I have to lighten it quite a bit.
Its made from 1/4" plywood sandwiched between .059" carbon fiber sheets.
These were sandwiched using Loctite E30CL Hysol.
The result is a ultra rigid base for the motor ready to be lightened and get a little nicer shape, but that will be done later.
Hopefully I can start with the landing gear tomorrow, which is the first step...

[edible_engine]

A150 on 12 cells should be good for models up to 30lbs! mine was 31-32lbs and it still outclimbed a 100cc gasser

[hcuellart]

A150 on 12 cells should be good for models up to 30lbs! mine was 31-32lbs and it still outclimbed a 100cc gasser
Exactly!! I just want to see how the motor works on the 27-10th and 14S I think it should have the power of a 120cc...

[hcuellart]

Well I installed the gear, tail wheel and cowl :) .
I still need to make a reinforcement carbon fiber plate that goes over the main gear to further distribute the weight as the gear is not a single part its divided in two so I guess the plate should help...

I already mounted the motor to its plate and then I will be using regular standoffs to achieve the spacing needed...

I already have a servo on a wing and that was a pain :censored: ... As this is the version without a servo acces hole, you need to do all your work from the wing root. As I will be using just one servo, I really don't know how other guys used the two servos on this wing without having to make an access hatch for the outer wing servo...

I'll post more pics on the weekend...

Regards,
Homero

[hcuellart]

Well here are some more pics of where I am at the moment.

I found a great use for some magnets I purchased quite some time ago for some hatches in my small electrics. I was breaking my head as to how to glue the canopy and install it on the plane while the glue dries, well the magnets seem to be the ones to use :D .
I will be gluing it tonight, lets see how it comes out.
Though you won't see it because of the kleen-pack, I slightly tinted the canopy with the rit dye method, I found out that the temperature is the key to tinting. It needs to be over 140F and less than 155F so it won't deform....

The wings are finished and the stabs need to be finished as I am still deciding if I will be using quick links or I will double the servo horns and use ball links...

Regards,
Homero

[flyrobert]

Nice power set up can't wait to see her finished
what batteries are they?

[hcuellart]

Nice power set up can't wait to see her finished
what batteries are they?
Thanks these are from a lipo manufacturer called Poly NoOne. This is going to be a test bed for thei lipos in a high power setup. I'll soon find out how they will perform.

[hcuellart]

Here is some more work that has been done to the Edge. The pics speak for themselves...
The motor is installed and aligned, the ESC is installed and the little spacers are being glued with Hysol in place. I think this next week comes the motor testing, now this will be fun!!! :D :D :D :D :D

[lazyboyflyer]

Looks great Homero, your placement of the ESC is perfect. I guess you'll maiden it very soon, take alot of pictures.

[appleflyer]

wow how much $$$ is this setup costing?

[hcuellart]

Looks great Homero, your placement of the ESC is perfect. I guess you'll maiden it very soon, take alot of pictures.
Thanks maybe a couple of weeks at the most... Surely this week I will test the motor/ESC/lipo setup and see how things come out :D ...
I will take a lot of pictures but most importantly, video, I will HAVE to take video...
Thanks for your comments :) !!
Regards,
Homero

[hcuellart]

wow how much $$$ is this setup costing?
The motor is $900+
The ESC is $800+
The lipos can run you anywhere from $650 to $1,500+
From here on I just stopped counting ;) ....
Regards,
Homero

[appleflyer]

wow! thats a lot!

[BingWing]

Alot but i feel you will end up with a fantastic aircraft that will have the DA boys really interested. Whats the wingspan in inches btw ? and how many actually lipo packs will you use to make up your 12s setup ? Thanks for your thread. LOVE IT !!

[hcuellart]

Alot but i feel you will end up with a fantastic aircraft that will have the DA boys really interested. Whats the wingspan in inches btw ? and how many actually lipo packs will you use to make up your 12s setup ? Thanks for your thread. LOVE IT !!
Thanks for the compliments :) !!
The WS is 102" and will use 4X 5S packs and 2X 4S packs making the setup a 14S2P 11,300mAh :D ...
Thanks,
Homero

[BingWing]

Wow !!! Thats going to kick ass !!! Dont want to tie up the thread but would that not equal 28 Cells not 14 ?

[hcuellart]

Well as I will use 2X 14S 5,650mAh wired in parallel the cell count usually are the ones connected in series...

[BingWing]

ok thanks. cant wait for the video.

[hcuellart]

Here are some pics of the work done these past few days...
The stab is ready, the horns on the rudder are installed, I hysoled the servo tray in place and did the hole for the ESC/lipo cables, I still need to do the lipo tray and the vent holes for the lipos. These will go inside the cowl going into the fuse. Also still have to do the vent holes on the fuse.

[hcuellart]

Well here is the video of the motor test...
Motor Test (http://www.vimeo.com/5111929)

This is the motor test using a 14S 11,200mAH lipo setup. The ESC is s Hacker MasterSpin 220 and the test prop is a Vess 27A which isn't the best prop for this setup, I already have the Mejzlik 27-10th and that's the one I'll be using.
On this first run I couldn't get that much information as I couldn't hold the plane securely by myself for a longer period of time, I need at least 4 seconds at full throttle...

On a second run I didn't catch on film, I got 87A at 56.9V which is roughly 5kW which is very low, I guess the Vess does not load the motor enough to get better wattage or I need to take the readings after a full flight...

[bill clark]

thats gotta be close to 40lbs pulling you off your feet. I predict you'll be able to run that thing unloaded (low watts) and have killer performance, and with some throttle management,15+ minute flights. maybe 20. 2 flights on 1 set of packs. yaaaaa.
on my 57" electric there really is not much difference between 1.7 and 2:1 (12lbs on 5s) thrust to weight and I'm a power junky. I would be following in your footsteps with my XC 540 if it wasnt so dang expensive. im goin with the 80cc shaker

[Jocke]

Nice setup and plane, but please secure the plane before you run static tests like that ! :) youre crasy, you should fly the plane, not get hurt by the prop! ;)

[BingWing]

Thats great !! HEAPS of power..... Umm...I am a little suprised that the P factor did not flip the plane on its side.. It look a little scary. I would get two helpers to hold it down and do it outside.

Cant wait to see it fly.

[hcuellart]

Well I did a short flight which can be seen here (http://www.vimeo.com/5366573)
I still have not resolved the measurement differences on the JetiBox so I cannot get an accurate amp draw...
I have a Vess 27A prop as I received till yesterday my Mejzlik 27-10TH I don´t seem to find a 27-12TH which should give me a bit more power.

After this video, the packs came down quite cold but being 36 degrees Centigrade outside, I can only estimate they could have been maybe 40 degrees at the most...

I am still getting a huge spark when I connect the ESC even though it supposedly has a spark arrestor feature :confused: ...
If anybody knows what can be wrong I would greatly appreciate it...

Thanks!!
Homero

[bill clark]

what was your final ready to fly weight?
that thing is gonna be awsome. ive been doing a little digin' around and found some 12s motors that claim 45lbs of thrust. wondering out loud if that would work.

check this out on the spark thing. dont know if it will help
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t184041p1
we have this problem on our big e-helis. something about precharging the capacitors in the esc

make sure you keep the videos coming. definetly want to see where you're at power wise

[Sid3ways]

Homero,

This is what Tamjets offers the big jet guys who are using 12S-16S setups. Just plug it into the batteries first and then plug it into the ESC. The caps will eat up the spark from what I understand, never seen one work but Tam wouldn't sell it if it didn't. :)

http://www.tamjets.com/original/product_info.php?cPath=75&products_id=431
http://www.tamjets.com/original/images/Cap%20001.jpg

[hcuellart]

Thanks for the links guys.
My question here was because the Jeti/Hackermaster SPIN 220 has already a spark arrestor circuit integrated. I wanted to know if anybody had an experience with this feature failing or maybe my connection steps were wrong :confused: ...

I already contacted Aero-Model and asked them about that and also about the JetiBox not reading the correct max amp draw. On this last issue I read somewhere that you needed to have a 15 second full throttle run for the ESC to measure the max amp draw correctly, hopefully I get a response soon...

If the spark arrestor is messed up, then I might have to do a homebuilt one :rolleyes: ...

Thanks again for your answers!

And yes I will post many more videos as soon as I get to fly more :D .

Field charging proved to be more serious than I thought :eek: . I have a Trojan Deep Cycle battery and it only charged at bit over 3/4 of the full 14S pack.

As my setup is a 14S2P and I have 2 Orbit Microladers and a Schulze Chamaleon 636+,
I charge on the Orbit chargers a 10S (2 X 5S5600 packs) and an 8S on the Shulze.
Well I found out that the deep cycle battery could only charge the 2 Orbit chargers at the same time so the first 4 packs where charged, but when trying to charge the other two, the voltage on the deep cycle battery went down, I had to charge from my van for the last part of that charge... So I bought a small 1500W inverter generator and see if I can at least charge all the packs together using IBM server power supplies...

This has become an interesting project to say the least, but I have invested quite some money :eek: , but at least I feel it has been all for the good ;) ...
The plane flies like a dream and for the three flights I have, the full club stops flying just to watch the plane fly and hear the sound of it, and all they can say is IMPRESSIVE!!
Regards,
Homero

[hcuellart]

By the way, this setup by far, but really far better than any 100CC gasser, any!! And this is with a Vess prop I want to see this setup on the Mejzlik...

[bill clark]

how 'bout that all up weight, Hom'



when you get your packs broke in and got the camera rolling punch it from a dead stop on take off that way we can see the power which im sure will be great just remember a little right rudder :eek:

[hcuellart]

All up weight is 31.65 lbs...

Homero

[bill clark]

When do you plan to fly next? interested to know what your Mah burn rate will be.

[ronrandle]

Well I did a short flight which will can be seen

Homero, that inverted flat spin is SICK!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lynxman]

It sounds and looks awesome in the video. :)



Homero,

This is what Tamjets offers the big jet guys who are using 12S-16S setups. Just plug it into the batteries first and then plug it into the ESC. The caps will eat up the spark from what I understand, never seen one work but Tam wouldn't sell it if it didn't. :)


That capacitor setup is used to protect the ESC when using long battery wires. It will not eliminate the spark, but will in fact increase the strength of the spark, or cause two sparks, depending on how you connect the battery. the spark is due to the empty capacitors drawing a lot of current the instant the connection is made.

[hcuellart]

When do you plan to fly next? interested to know what your Mah burn rate will be.
Saturday should be the next flying day...

[hcuellart]

Homero, that inverted flat spin is SICK!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks Ron!!! The plane helps a lot ;)

[hcuellart]

It sounds and looks awesome in the video. :)





That capacitor setup is used to protect the ESC when using long battery wires. It will not eliminate the spark, but will in fact increase the strength of the spark, or cause two sparks, depending on how you connect the battery. the spark is due to the empty capacitors drawing a lot of current the instant the connection is made.

Thanks for the correction, should I use a 100 Ohm resistor then? I found out that the resistor on the ESC is open circuit (damaged) so I will have to make a homemade one which should be quite easy, but the resistance value is the one I don't know what to use, on another thread where I was asking about this someone posted a 100 Ohm should do...

Any input on this matter would be greatly appreciated :p .

Regards,
Homero

[Lynxman]

100 Ω might work, so maybe you should try it, but I think it's better to use a little to high resistance than too low, as a too high resistance will just take longer to charge the capacitors, requiring you to wait a second longer before the connector is fully engaged, while a too low resistance will cause a smaller spark as the resistor is touched, and burn the resistor after a few tries. It depends on how big the capacitance is in addition to how high the voltage is so what works best might vary from ESC to ESC. I used 83 Ω on an 8S setup in 2005, and found that less resistance caused an initial spark if I remember correctly. I didn't have a lot of steps to choose from though, so slightly less than 83 would probably also have worked then.

[hcuellart]

100 Ω might work, so maybe you should try it, but I think it's better to use a little to high resistance than too low, as a too high resistance will just take longer to charge the capacitors, requiring you to wait a second longer before the connector is fully engaged, while a too low resistance will cause a smaller spark as the resistor is touched, and burn the resistor after a few tries. It depends on how big the capacitance is in addition to how high the voltage is so what works best might vary from ESC to ESC. I used 83 Ω on an 8S setup in 2005, and found that less resistance caused an initial spark if I remember correctly. I didn't have a lot of steps to choose from though, so slightly less than 83 would probably also have worked then.
Thanks Lynxman, I will try this as soon as I get my hands on a 100Ohm resistor...
Regards,
Homero

[hcuellart]

I flew today but the Kavan 4" tires got damaged with the wheel pants, I guess I should have inflated them again. I think I will get Dubro 4 1/2" they are thinner too. My wheelpants were really low, a finger from the ground so adding a 1/2 inch with sturdier wheels should do the trick...
I was happy with the Kavans till today, I really didn't know you should inflate them regularly... Well maybe it should have been expected, but well that is one more thing to take care of and sometimes with the rush of going to the field, well you know...

[hcuellart]

Hi guys I wanted to post some pics of my future field charging equipment...
Its a 1500W portable inverter/generator, and 3 server power supplies. I am in the process of making a little box to carry the power supplies. I'll post later how it came out.

My Trojan deep cycle cannot even fully charge one of the sets for this plane... So I had to get this stuff, hopefully it'll work... :D
Homero

[bill clark]

hows that bird doin', Homero?

[JezUK1]

Whats the flight time on your bird hcuellart?

[hcuellart]

hows that bird doin', Homero?
The Edge is doing just great!! I did have a small mishap as I very stupidly didn't reinforce the landing gear plate as most everyone did on this particular plane, and yes, on a landing that I was going out of the strip, I gave full rudder and the side load was just too much.... Well I should have learned :( from the previous builders...
But well I now have it repaired and reinforced and it is flying beautifully!!! I have not flown it much as the temps here are a bit over 110 degrees :eek: , its just unbearable...

Regards,
Homero

[hcuellart]

Whats the flight time on your bird hcuellart?
a bit over 7 minutes doing light 3D and there is a bit over 1/4 of the pack left...
Regards,
Homero

[flazo]

here