How do you steer when launching?

[tony w]

I am curious to hear how some of you steer when going up the winch or hi-start. My understanding is that you should use only rudder to steer up the winch. I have always done this with my RES plane, and the rudder control has been on the right stick. My right thumb is used to this.

Now, I need to figure out how to steer my FH plane up the winch. With the FH plane, the rudder is on my left stick. I am not willing to change modes. I am a little nervous about just using my left thumb to steer up the winch, because it is not very talented at this point. I can just see a disaster lurking. :eek:

How do you do this? I can fiddle with mixes in my launch mode to get mostly rudder with decreased aileron on my right stick. Would this be OK or do you want zero aileron control on launch.

Any suggestions/comments are appreciated.

Tony

[dhaverlah]

I've never flown a FH ship either, but I would think that if you mix most of the aileron out and have the rudder mixed in as proposed, you should do alright. Probably would want some differential in the aileron mix also.

[Wazmo]

If you have a computer radio of sufficient capability, you can program 100% aileron -> rudder mix and 100% aileron differential (ailerons only go up, not down) in launch mode.

However, if you're going to fly full house, learn to use the rudder. You'll need it. :D You should keep the wings level with ailerons and steer the nose with rudder.

[atjurhs]

I put my left thumb atop the rudder stick (which is in a throttle full forward position because it's mixed to your butterfly/crow setting which you won't use when launching) and steer the plane with the rudder. My right thumb doesn't even touch the right stick. I place it on the Tx casing. Your elevator setting in launch mode on a FH plane should not need to be changed, so the only reason you should need any right stick input while launching is if the plane pulls horribly to one side or the other. In that case when you do give it an aileron input, you will want 100% differential programmed into you ailerons during the launch mode (the wing that's not flying fast enough you don't want it to slow down anymore by adding camber).

Have fun, there's so much to learn with a FH plane and it's all fun :)

[rbush]

Tony, do you have a slope available? With some altitude and consistent lift, one can train that left thumb to perfection. Flying S-turns into the wind without aileron input should help your launching skill.

Also practice flying toward yourself using rudder, eg. practice landing passes at a safe altitude. You'll need your rudder when landing.

Another thought: Before doing the above, fly your RES ship with the left stick mixed with the right stick so that both give the same rudder response. That setup should be more forgiving than the full house.

Randy

[tonyestep]

Tony, your launch mode setup should have two key ingredients (in addition to launch flaps).

First, aileron differential should be set to 100%, i.e. you have up-going travel but no down-going travel. Second, aileron-rudder coupling should be set to maximum.

Now when you move the right stick, you will get mostly rudder control, with just enough up-aileron on the proper wing to help level the wings on tow.

This is the standard arrangement you'll find in most of the recommended setups posted by expert flyers, and it works very nicely. If you make a reasonably level throw and don't have a big crosswind, you'll seldom need to add in rudder via the left thumb.

[tkallev]

Also, launch camber should be equal across the trailing edge, do not use less aileron than flap for "washout" ... it just creates more drag and reduces your launch.

tk

[FLY F3B]

So, for first launches with a full house glider, please do not get fancy with all of the fine tuning that we get into to maximize our launches. What you really need to do is to feel comfortable and IN CONTROL! To do this, make sure that you have your ailerons and rudder mixed, and you have somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% differential (yes, like the previous posts, I use 100% diff on launch, but for starting out, don't worry about this type of set up)

With Aileron on the right stick and rudder on the left, and the rudder mixed to the aileron, your launches will be exactly like flying your RES ships up the line. The rudder only thing works well only if you are in a nice stable climb on the line. This is to say that if you get sent in a bad direction, and are arching over toward the ground, it is possible to apply full rudder and have the airplane react with a not-so-graceful tip stall and snap roll. It is far more important to make sure that the wings are at the very least, perpendicular to the launch line. When wanting to make a turn on the winch line it is easiest to do it with both rudder and aileron.

When you get comfortable, then start fine tuning..... you'll do fine.

By the way, all the advice provided above is spot on, you just might want to take baby steps until you're comfortable.

Cheers, and good luck.

Mike

[aeajr]

Rudder, rudder, rudder!

I don't touch anything else unless I am headed for the ground, then I want to get off the line any way I can. :eek:

[tony w]

Thanks for all the ideas. Like always......there is a great variety in how people do things.

I should mention the major reason that this has me worried. Forget that this is my first FH plane and that I have spent hours tweaking my radio so all is just as I wanted. Forget that a glass ship is harder to fix than foam or balsa.

Flash back 10 months. I built my 2M spirit and went to fly it....a big step up from my easy glider. A mentor at the club winched it up for me and it flew great. Then he winched while I steered. Worked great, even got a small thermal. I was all jacked up and ready to conquer the world. How hard could this be? So with plane and radio and winch and pedal and winch line all around me, I elected to do it solo. Threw the plane up into a stall, it swooped to the right, just like a kite, I recovered and it swooped to the left...farther over this time, then it swooped hard to the right all the way into the ground!!! Looked just like a kite flown in wind too high. Back and forth. Total smash fest and it all occurred in about four seconds, within 70 feet of where I stood. My new baby. Totaled. Six hours to build my first sailplane and four minutes flying it.

This is why I asked. I do know that I will need some help getting used to the winch and have had many suggestions on how best to do that from some club members.

Thought you would enjoy the story. I'm certain this has never happened to anyone but me. Actually, has anyone ever started a thread titled "tell us about your most memorable sailplane launch catastrophe"?

tony

[slopemeno]

I think one of the most important things you can remember when you start "snaking" is to either 1) Give it a ton of down and get your airspeed up, or 2) Pull up and ping off the line and loop out to level. Snaking has disaster written all over it.

[tonyestep]

Tony, if you want to pick out one guy to listen to, listen to Mike Smith's advice (FlyF3B). He's the man. There is really not so much variety in the way guys do things if they know what they're doing, and if you do what Mike sez you can't be wrong.

As far as your winch disaster -- plenty of guys have had something like that happen. One answer is to spend more time with the other guy tapping and you flying before you go it alone. The other is to rehearse in your mind what to do if something goes wrong. The best course is usually to get off the pedal, give the plane some down elevator, and fly it off the line at low altitude. Come back and try again.

The time to figure this out is not when you're in a life-or-death situation -- it's before you turn the plane loose. Practice with your buddy tapping, get used to recovering from off-line throws etc., and get familiar enough with the whole process so that you can relax a little. Plan what you'll do in a bad situation. Then try it by yourself. After a few trips up the line, the tapping rhythm gets easier to master, and all will be well.

[aeajr]

Let's see, I think I broke my Spirit wing twice, Sagitta 600 wing once and flew the Sagitta into the ground once before I finally got control of the winch.

Go back to my post. When I get in trouble I get off the line any way I can. That includes getting off the winch pedal.

The last thing you want to do is power drive your glider into the ground.

[tony w]

I think that the spot I landed the Spirit still has a smoldering crater. I had to file an environmental impact statement!! I definitely impacted the environment.

Tony

[target]

Tony-

I will email you my EVO setup (exactly like Mike Smith recommends) in the morning.

It works extremely well, and has already saved one of my planes from an over-jealous launcher...

Regards,
Target

PS. you should definitely start with a conservative setup, (hook forward-ish, and not too much launch camber) and make small adjustments, after flying a variety of conditions. I still prefer to have someone else launch my plane for me, I'm new.
If you have a great pilot that you can trust, you can launch your plane and run the winch, and let him fly it up. That allows you to concentrate on a straight launch technique.

[sleep4]

To quote from Joe Wurts' recs. for programming a FH sailplane on the Horizon web site:

With regard to launch camber:
"Make sure that you have full-span camber for launch. I've had very few planes that launched better with the ailerons deflected less than the flaps. Get the optimal TE setting and use it for the whole wing, flaps and ailerons."

With regard to launch mode aileron differential:
"One thing that should be typical for most fliers is in using a large amount of differential for launch. I typically use 75% to 90% aileron and flap differential for the launch mode. This is because in the deflected trailing edge position, the result of adding more deflection is just additional drag (which shows up as adverse yaw). Without a lot of differential, every time you use ailerons on launch, you get adverse yaw, which make the plane handle very weird on tow."

With regard to rudder to aileron coupling:
"I use typically maximum possible for both thermal and launch modes, with speed having just a little (10-15% depending on the mechanical setup), and cruise typically using about double what the speed is using."


I have used these ideas with my personal setups and they serve me well. Aileron/rudder coupling on launch does not preclude you from using the left stick (rudder only)on launch, if you want to steer the plane up that way. I use the right stick with maximum of rudder coupling to the ailerons as I believe Wurts does. It's more natural to me.

I like a bit of aileron/rudder coupling for cruise and thermaling especially flying at high altitude because it's difficult for me to accurately coordinate the turns visually using the left stick at that distance. As per Dr. Drela I depend more on rudder (coupled for me) than aileron differential during normal flight to coordinate turns. But there are alot of folks who do it the other way. To each his own.

[tom43004]

Tony,

Don't feel bad. I spent about four MONTHS building my first full house ship, an Antares. I think it lasted about five (very eventful) launches and perished on the sixth.

The dumbest thing I ever did was build another one. That thing thermalled like a rusty tire iron.

It's all a part of the journey.

Those two airplanes taught me how to get a very bad airplane up a winchline. Everything after that seemed like cake.

Everyone has had good advice here, but read Mike's post about a hundred times. Simple is always better when wings are involved.

[tbushell]

So, for first launches with a full house glider, please do not get fancy with all of the fine tuning that we get into to maximize our launches. What you really need to do is to feel comfortable and IN CONTROL! To do this, make sure that you have your ailerons and rudder mixed, and you have somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% differential (yes, like the previous posts, I use 100% diff on launch, but for starting out, don't worry about this type of set up)

With Aileron on the right stick and rudder on the left, and the rudder mixed to the aileron, your launches will be exactly like flying your RES ships up the line.
...
Mike

This is consistant with my 1st experiences with flying a Multiplex Cularis (full house) and EZ Glider (R/E/A) on HiStart and winch. The planes were set up very similar to the way Mike describes it - aileron differential, and 30% to 40% rudder mixed to the ailerons.

At first, I never touched the left stick - just flew the right stick like I did with my first plane - an R/E EZ star, and everything was fine. As I got used to the the whole process, I started flying more on the left stick for efficiency reasons, but there was never any lack of control when flying on the right stick only.

One thing to consider is to do some flights on a HiStart, if you have access to one. I still find that easier than a winch - you can give your total concentration to flying the plane. Just make sure your Rx is turned on before launching the plane! (Not a bad idea on the winch, too)

-Tom

[tony w]

Tom,

I have a hi-start. For me, there are up and down sides to a hi-start. With a winch, the crash was done in 5-6 seconds, then all was quiet. With a hi-start, I would have to watch the plane get dragged for 400 feet before it was all over. :D

Tony

[Jack Hyde]

Target,
I have a FH Mantis that I plan to begin flying again after a 5 yr layoff to learn aerobatic power planes. I would appreciate a copy of your EVO program. I have an EVO 9 and am just about ready to launch. I have my own winch and field - fly alone most of the time.

[target]

Sure thing, Jack. Just PM me your email address and I can send it to you right now.

Regards,
Target