iPhone Thermal Duration Timer - Would you buy it?

[cn0rris]

Frustrated by my inability to find a good countdown stopwatch in the local sporting goods stores, and because I'm a some-times Apple software developer and always have my iPhone in my pocket, I decided to write my own Thermal Duration timer application for the iPhone. I've got something working great (at least I'm happy with it) in the free iPhone simulator, but in order to get new iPhone apps actually on a phone and out of the simulator you need to pay Apple $100 to join the iPhone developer program.

That made me stop and think whether I would be able to recoup my $100 selling the app. It would be definitely worth something to me to be able to run my own app on my own phone, but $100 seems a little steep just to try it out.

If I charged, say, $2 for the app, I would have to sell about 75 copies to make up the initial investment after Apple takes their cut, and since this would likely only be interesting to Thermal Duration pilots with iPhones, the market is rather small. I could also charge more and have to sell fewer copies to break even, but would likely sell fewer copies overall.

So my questions to you folks are:

1: How many Thermal Duration pilots are out there that own iPhones?
2: Would you buy an iPhone app to use as a timer?
3: How much do you think it's worth?

The main features of the app that distinguish it from the regular timer app already built in to the iPhone are:

1: It continues timing after it reaches zero, something most timer apps just don't do.
2: It talks (if you want it to - you can turn that off).
3: It simultaneously displays the count-down time and count-up time, so you can easily read off the total elapsed time for your score card.

That's it. It's actually a very simple app, as you can see from the attached screen shots of my prototype application.

What do you guys think?

Chuck

[Andy W]

No. The iphone is too big to velcro to my Tx. The talking timer I have ($20) is smaller and lighter..
..a

[IBWALT]

I don't have an iPhone but I do have a 16gb Touch which the app would work on and I would have to vote no also. I have a talking timer and a Seiko S321 that are better suited to the flying field environment.

Walt

[will_newton]

Chuck, maybe you could add a scoring system to it. This would be good for DLG contests where there are multiple flights in a round. It would have to be dead simple because you'd have to hand the phone to someone to use while you are flying.

The other guys are right though. If you can afford an iphone, you probably already have a stopwatch or talking timer.

I don't own an iphone, but I am a mac user. If I had an iphone, I would buy your app, but it would need to be more than just a glorified stopwatch/countdown timer.

It may be better to figure out how to market your app to a broader audience than just glider or r/c guys. Don't give up on developing for the iphone, keep expanding your app. There's money to be made in the app store!

[Mark Miller]

As a long time Mac/Apple guy I'd love to make all of my Apple products more useful to me than they already are. I have been looking for a similar thing for my iPhone. I have played with Chronos Lite and the pay version and it is close. One nice thing is that it will keep running in the background so if you are using it and a call comes in it will stay active and not close the app. You can make multiple timers in both count up and count down that are activated simultaneously. The main issue I see with the iPhone is that you have to rely on the touch screen to activate and deactivate. I'd much rather have a physical button to click. That way it is easily activated without having to look at the screen and it is hard to press inadvertently. I would rather have an app you can use on an iPod which has buttons but that does not seem possible. Right now I'd rather have a good old stop watch but I'm open to being proven wrong. I'll even offer to beta test it.

The other one that is neat is the DLG timing program that runs on the Palm. You can switch between all of the F3K tasks and it does it all with no human calculation. Nice app.

Mark Miller

[Oldcoot2]

You might keep in mind that there have been some of the flyers who have been shot down by their cellphones. There was a pretty good thread going on in this group not long ago.

Gerald

[Andy W]

.. usually when the RF from the phone causes the software in the TX to "glitch"..
..a

[belouder]

I'd buy one!!! And I'd like to use the ear bud to hear the countdown.

....Make it So.......

BK

[SmokinJoe101]

I think your time is best spent flying buy a Seiko count down watch from F3X.com this IS the watch for TD, F3J, F3B nice watch EZ to use. I have two of them.

sj

[Hutch]

If you eventually had a feature that worked with DLG tasks as well I think you would get a whole lot more sales for your app. Considering the price of the Seiko stopwatch I'd definitely be in for an iPhone app that did the same thing. That's one less thing to forget on the way to the field!

-hutch

[tkallev]

No, don't have an I-Phone, don't think cell phones should be allowed on-field during a contest. Ever had your timer take a call during a flight?

tk

[dlrepp]

Good idea but it may be overkill and reqiures the phone. Check this link out...it's hard to beat the price and the timer works perfect for thermal duration tasks.
Don
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-TALKING-COUNTDOWN-TIMER-KITCHEN-MEDICINE-PILL-BBQ_W0QQitemZ310122522070QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item310122522070&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

[mlee8249]

TK,

I have not only seen my timer take a call, but I've seen some of my fellow club members take a call while flying! I sincerely beleive that the RF energy from a ringing cell phone can play havoc on a transmitter and so I leave my phone in the car. If somebody calls, I'll call them when I'm not in the air. If it's important, like maybe my wife had to go to the hospital for something....I guess I'll be missing her.

(Was kind of nice having her cook dinner every so often)

[dlgdude]

Ever had your timer take a call during a flight?

tk

Ever had a timer negotiate a house sale during a flight?

[cn0rris]

What a great response - I really appreciate all the feedback. Lots of input that I'm digesting. I'll try to break things down into the specific topics and address each point in turn:

Cell phone interference
The iPhone has what they call "Airplane Mode", which turns off all the radios. Users concerned about radio interference can just put it into this mode to avoid any possible interference. I've seen a few apps that can interact with the current "airplane mode" state and give warnings - maybe I can do the same and suggest you switch to it during the timing session. But I'll wager 90% of pilots have cell phones in their pockets that we don't worry about, so I think this might only be an issue if you're taping your cell phone to your transmitter or something. I don't know. And as for whether cell phones should be allowed at all, that's a question for the contest director, and an iPhone in "Airplane Mode" is radio-silent anyway.

Lack of a button that has a solid "click" feel
There's not a lot I can do about this, since that's just the way the iPhone interface works. But I do have a nice "click" sound when you press the button, so you do get some audio feedback. I could also make it buzz.

Scoring System
For TD, I've considered a simple logging function, so you'd have a log of all of your flights for the day. Maybe add a place to enter your landing points, and I think TD would be covered.

DLG Features
I've never competed in a DLG contest, but if someone could give me the details of how scoring works, I'd give it some serious consideration.

Keep running in the background
The app does this now, so if you happen to get a call, or want to check your contacts list or make some notes, you can do that without interrupting the timer.

[Mark Miller]

HEre is the link to the Palm F3K software. It contains all the F3K tasks so you can switch to the task used for the upcoming round. Our club here in St. Louis uses it for our contests and it helps make things run smoothly.

http://www.metzgerralf.de/palm/dlgtime/dlgtime_en/index.shtml

[glidagida]

Hi Chuck

I too am a long term Mac user [since '89] and have been out at the field several times when I felt the iPhone would be ideal for a practice timer, so I downloaded a kitchen timer-NUH!

Your idea sounds great, one less thing to bring along, BIG screen, and the ability to log your scores [and your contest team's scores] say 6-7 rounds x 4-5 team members = 35 memories for the day would be great. Lost a spot in a recent comp when an aging timer put in the wrong score [subtracted a minute] so it would be great being able to recall the score from memory.

Countdown voice with switchable sound on/off would be great, say every 10 seconds and then every second for the last 10. I think this would be an issue that will require some flexibility, some guys like every 30, some every 15 in general flight.

Spot record would be great.

The lack of a 'button' would be countered by your suggestion of a big 'click' sound, but it would have to be plenty loud for a windy day contest start, the little 'vibrate' as a confirmation like when you turn off the sound would be ideal.

Now if you could programme one to spot thermals that would be just divine.....:p

Cheers
GG

[jimsoars]

I had considered doing the same thing, but have not gotten around to it.

I have a tip for you that was passed on to me from (I believe) Joe Wurts when I was doing a computer based timing system for F3J. This is how the good Seiko watches work and are different from many if not most countdown watches.

This is a little obtuse, so I hope I explain it sufficiently. On the countdown side we rely on the SECONDS display of the watch and expect that when the watch display turns to a number that it is EXACTLY what is left. This seems obvious but is not. For example, the way most watches work and the way most programmers would implement it is this:

Assume a 10 second countdown.
Watch display shows 10
Press button and the display immediately turns to 9 ( and is counting down from 9.99 .. 9.98 etc.

BUT instantly when the display changes to 9 there are NOT 9 seconds left there are actually almost 10 left. This is most important for the last second. When the watch shows 1 second left, is is actually almost 2....

This means that a good countdown generally does not display the point parts of seconds, but only displays the whole seconds and then changes when there are exactly that many seconds left. When the display changes to 0 there is no time left on the clock.

I hope this helps...

Jim

PS - I'd probably buy it too for a couple of bucks... :)

[cn0rris]

HEre is the link to the Palm F3K software. It contains all the F3K tasks so you can switch to the task used for the upcoming round. Our club here in St. Louis uses it for our contests and it helps make things run smoothly.

Thanks Mark, I'll keep it in mind when I start thinking about a F3K version. Is this intended for Contest Directors, or the contestants themselves?

Chuck

[cn0rris]

Now if you could programme one to spot thermals that would be just divine.....:p

Heh, but that would take all the fun out! ;)

But seriously, I've been looking at some of the lapse rate computations available for PC that use radiosonde data to predict how "lifting" the atmostphere is, and thinking how useful it would be to have that in your pocket. With the iPhone's on-board GPS, it could automatically pick the closest radiosonde launch location and everything... I'll queue that up for when I have more time... ;)

[cn0rris]

jimsoars,

Excellent points about how the display and voice need to coordinate. My solution is this:

I show tenths of a second while it's running, primarily because I like it - I think it gives good feedback that it's timing accurately. (Not that the actual timing is any more or less accurate of course - the internal timer is much more accurate than your fingers can operate the buttons.) Then the voice coordinates like this: the time is announced as the timer crosses through the precise time, not when the seconds part changes.

For anyone else reading this who is having trouble visualizing it, when the display reads "10.9" seconds, there are really almost 11 seconds left. Only as the timer crosses through "10.0" does it announce "ten seconds", but then the display switches to "9.9" a tenth of a second later. Since your eye can only really track the seconds (the tenths are a blur), this can fool you into thinking the timer and voice are a second out of sync, since it announces "ten seconds" just as the seconds part switches to "9". Even though it's exactly correct.

For now, I'm showing the tenths and just dealing with (and amused by) the cognitive dissonance. You get used to it (at least I did) when you know what's going on. But maybe I'll add a switch so people can choose how they like it.

Chuck

[jimsoars]

It would be best if the countdown display only showed seconds. I use the watch to count down for my pilot and want to read when the seconds change, just like my Seiko. It's ok if the count up portion reads the fractions. Also for F3J events you need a timer that shows actual time to 2 decimal places. My preference would be to have it operate like the Seiko, with a toggle button to show elapsed or countdown, but not both. Too much distraction.


Another cool feature might be something for F3J. In F3J we use 2 watches, one to keep track of the window time and one for the flight time. Having both of those on one display might be cool, as long as the display made if very clear, which was which. We normally count down on the window time, but punch the clock on the flight time watch.
Jim

[Krashmaster81]

How about an analog display option? Just an idea... I'm a fan of "steam guages" ... And yes, I'd pay for the app for my iPhone!

-matt

[Krashmaster81]

http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=301615836&mt=8

[kzimmerm]

Just a general comment here.... First, I thing the iPhone timer is good. Would I buy one? No, I don't have an iPhone. But I'm sure you can find buyers.... enough to recoup your $100, probably not. Consider finding other outlets for the timer to see if you can broaden the interest, assuming you want to make back your investment on just the timer.

Second, for me, I like to have the best of both worlds. If I'm flying a 7 minute task I'd like to have the first 5 minutes count up and the last 2 minutes count down. The reason is that I practice 2 minute precision tasks and I listen to a count down timer during that time. The initial period I want to know my duration...... something like "that's 3 min.... that's 4 min." or I'd like to hear "that's 3 min with 4 min remaining".

Now if you can develop an iPhone ap that finds lift I think you would be on to something.

Good luck.
Kurt

[Mark Miller]

There is an app called Talking Timer that works for a practice timer on the App Store

Mark

[webbsolution]

I recorded my voice on several tasks and i play it over th earphones....if I am doing 10 min tasks I just give myself a working time to relaunch.

for TD and F3J I don't want to record how far over the task i am because its all bad...


I will sell my solution for 50 cents to the first 10 million custoers only.

PM for for paypal instructions...

DW

[rrdiaz30]

I would like to see this app with voice activation. The iPhone would need a case with a lanyard (http://www.macally.com/en/Product/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=233) so you could wear it around your neck like a Seiko timer. Use an earbud with a microphone (http://www.amazon.com/MONSTER-123875-Imicrophone-Microphone-Adapter/dp/B000V8RCTS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1248489916&sr=8-1) adapter. To start the timer, simply say the word START to activate. While the timer is running, say the word TIME and the time remaining is spoken back by a recorded voice. Say the word STOP, and the stopwatch stops. Allow the app to be configured on how to do the countdown by recorded voice.

Rick