is flap mixing necessary for harriers?

[Peter W]

is it vital?
i can't get my e3d to do it with no mixing, it either stalls or powers out so either more elevator ( not 3d at mo) or flaps needed?

Pete:)

[flyfalcons]

Pete,
How much elevator do you have? Around 40 degrees of travel would be ideal if you can get it. Some planes like to have elevator-spoiler mixing to reduce wing rock, but try it first to see if it is necessary.

[Peter W]

no i am still flying the e3d on sedate settings however i have more aileron and elevator movement on switches but i forget to use them alot!
only rudder is effective in harrier mode right?

Pete:)

[flyfalcons]

In a harrier, most of the time you'll be using full aft elevator and juggle the throttle to maintain altitude. Sometimes the nose will start to rise too much (past 70 degrees), where you'll have to juggle the elevator to keep it from popping into a hover.

To steer, use the rudder for heading and the ailerons to control bank and wing rock. The ailerons are surprisingly effective during the harrier, but use of the rudder is very important for directional changes.

One way to see if your plane will harrier is to do an Elevator: Go up high and stall the aircraft, and keep full up elevator in. The plane should descend at about a 45 degree angle, with the nose level or slightly up. From this flight condition you can add some power and transition right into a harrier. As with most other 3D maneuvers, full 3D control rates are an absolute must. Use lots of expo because at 40 degree elevator throws the plane can become quite twitchy. Good luck!

[Peter W]

thanks for tips, i have tried to continually stall but it keeps mushing out of them!
will put more mov and expo little by little.

Pete:)

[Peter W]

well i stalled it with full elevator and it descended flat under control so need more throw and cg rearward more to angle it up more.

[flyfalcons]

If you were holding full up elevator and the nose stayed level while the airplane descended, then you're doing pretty well. Add in some power and you'll be in a harrier. Here's a vid of my Extra doing some Harriers, an Elevator, and some other 3D moves.

http://www.rcsites.net/flyfalcons/RyansMWExtra.wmv

[Alex W.]

Nice VID:cool:

[Peter W]

yeah v good

[LJH]

Yea....that is cool :cool: .

Cheers,
Jim

[GWRIGHT]

move CG back. I no longer use flap mixing at all. I've got the CG WAY back though (about an inch and a half behind the spar) and the E3D is just a teeny tiny bit negatively stable (mostly noticable power off on landing, you may have to push the nose down just a scoshe). witht eh CG that far back and 45 degrees of elevator, you easily push the wing through that point of stall and into the fully stalled arena where it's simply an airbrake to slow descent. The further rearward the CG, the LESS wingrock you'll get and the more stable they become in parachute/harrier mode. sounds like you don't have the cg quite far enough back and not enough elevator. You can't do them easily if you don't have enough athority to push the wing through stall,..i.e. it has to be either flying or fully stalled, and lingering around that area just a degree or two from stalled on either side gets very unstable. It's sort of a "zone" that's a couple degrees angle of attack before and after stall that's unstable, so you have to push through it and everything stabilizes.

[Peter W]

yeah the e3d goes all weird and aileron is delayed and eventually it falls out. i am tentitively moving cg back and need to buy hs-81 arm extensions to max out on 3D rates.

Pete:)

[t_predator90]

I would think it depends on how much wind there is. If it is very strong, you have enough wind speed passing on the wing that gives enough elevation for you to stay up without flaps. Because flaps are actually there to provide more lift at slow speed. If there isn't much wind, then, yes, flaps are a good idea!:D