Questions about going FP

[Riktar]

Bear with me as I ask what is probably "less than smart" questions:

First an explanation as to my experience. Basically very little. I have 2 coax helis at present. A Colco airwolf with a Eflite 4in1 and LP5DSM controller. And a CX2 with a 3in1, AR6100 mated to another LP5DSM controller.
I have become proficient at running through a flight (7-8 minutes before batt starts to go.) without crashing into stuff. I have trimmed the helicopter well enough that it can hover in one spot for about 15 seconds before it starts to drift. Unless I am hovering over a heater vent when the furnace kicks in. Boy does that make for unstable flight!
What I mostly do is slow maneuvers around the house, focusing on smooth and steady movements rather than quick tight stuff. And of course there is the "how close can I get to my wife" before she threatens me and my heli with great bodily/frame harm. By the way my idea of close is about 3 feet over her head. Just enough to put a chill through her.

Anyway, I want to get outside (too windy for a coax) and try my hand at aerial video. Possibly with a FlyCamOne2 strapped to the bottom.


So here are the questions:

1. Is it possible to purchase this (http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=W262062&pid=B3915414) and remove either the 4in1 or the 3in1 and AR6100 and install it, allowing me to practice on FP. I would assume I would have to get servos and ??? Or is this idea all wet?

2. I have NO desire to fly 3D or inverted but, is working with a FP that much of a handicap over a CP in terms of stable hovering/slow maneuvers?

3. How much wind can a HBFP take? 5mph? 10mph? I am assuming proficient skill is mixed into the equation.

4. Along the lines of practice, do Flightsims have the ability to modify a particular model with something extra hanging on the bottom of it. Like a FlyCamOne2?

Thanks for any advice.

[Blade_Killer]

that helli doesnt come with any electronics, just the heli..no servos, no 4 in 1.

The HBFP cant carry much weight, I dont know what that camera weighs but I doubt it could carry it.

The HBFP can be flown in 5-15mph winds in the hands of a skilled pilot.

[Beachcomber]

Riktar, I'm a newbie also, but have a Honey Bee FP and it looks to me that you will need the following:
1) Radio receiver, speed controller, main rotor/tail rotor mixer, and gyro. Your 4-n-1 can do all of that. (you might already know the 3-n-1 doesn't have a radio receiver which is what your AR 6100 is).
2) qty 2 micro servos, both to control the cyclic via the swashplate. Need to buy, unless you can borrow from existing helis.
3) Main motor and tail motor, which the kit probably has.
4) Radio transmitter for 4 channel, which you already have.

Unless I left something out, I say go for it.

In my humble opinion, the only thing you are giving up with FP rather than CP is the ability to fly upside down, and some improved flight characteristics in fast forward flight. You are gaining a much simpler head assembly with fewer parts and less to break in a crash.

In my experience, the HBFP can handle a little more wind using after market main rotor blades (stiffer) than stock, but still not as much wind as the average CP. Blade Killer is probably right on that one.

[Riktar]

Blade_Killer: Thanks for the wind info. I will assume (after some sim time) that I can can go outside in 0-5mph winds. The closer to 0 the better.

The FlyCamOne2 weighs in at 37 grams. I am not sure where to look for "lifting" capabilities on the HBCP. But in any event time will tell.

I am hopefull I can use one of the controllers I have already. Either the 4in1 or the 3in1/AR6100. The servos I will assume will have to be an outside purchase sine the Colco Coax servos won't work. Or could they?

And after reading my original post again I think I goofed up by calling the LP5DSM units controllers when in fact they are the 2.4ghz transmitters. I really have to get more coffee in me before I ask questions.

Beachcomber: If I am understanding the ad correctly all I need are the electronics which I can canibalize from the Colco. Wether the servos on that will work I don't know. But if I can't use coax servos on a FP I will buy some.
I am not sure if I should use the 4in1 (old style) or the 3in1(new style) to try this. If for the sake of experimenting I can use the 4in1 it would be preferable since I can concentrate on just stripping down the Colco and leave the CX2 intact.
I have spent $44 (Shipping included) on dumber things and if I can find a way to make this work, well it will be practical experience in building a heli.

And lastly I suppose I better figure out if the motors and my electronics have the same voltage specs. Otherwise,,,,,,,,,,,

POOF :censored:

Thanks for the replies.

[Beachcomber]

My Honey Bee FP came with 7.4 V Li-Po battery. When I asked the distributer if I could use 11.1 V Li-Po they said no, the 4-n-1 controller was not designed to handle it. So if your existing controllers are using 7.4 V Li-Po or 8.? V Ni-MH, then you should stay with that voltage. The motors that come with the bare bones kit will be ok with that.

Yes, as long as the kit comes with motors, then all you need to add is 4-n-1 and 2 servos. It may or may not come with linkage between servo and swashplate and main rotor blades.

Blade Killer might have a point about lifting capacity. If you find the heli is having trouble lifting, aftermarket blades that are stiffer might increase capacity a little. Then if you need more, you might need to replace motor with something like the Slo-Max for a little more power.

Hope this helps.

[Riktar]

Both helis run 7.4 800/850mah lipos so I am set on that end.

The ad doesn't specify to the level of linkage supplied or not so I will wait and see.

I think my first step is going to be just getting this thing together, balanced and trimmed and off the ground in a stable hover before I look into anything else.

But I will investigate the motor upgrade/cooling side of things as well.

I do have some upgraded motors coming for the CX2 that are supposed to run cooler then the stock ones I have. While performance increase would be a bonus, I will be happy enough not torching my fingers like I do now when I make the mistake of coming up against the stock motors while removing the battery immediately after a flight. :eek:

[osterizer]

If you want to go that way, you can set the Feep up with your standard receiver, a gyro, two ESCs, and servos for the swash. The rudder channel goes to the gyro, and the gyro output to a small (10A, for example) ESC for the tail motor; throttle output goes to the motor ESC, and the ele and ail outputs to the swash servos. This is essentially the setup people are talking about when they're discussing "going separates" on a motor-tail heli.

Although with some tinkering, you could make that setup fly well, I personally think you'd do better to start from the RTF version instead, if you just want a decent setup. You'll still have a bit to learn with a single-rotor heli, and fighting with the setup may not be what you really want.

Where stable flying and slow maneuvering are concerned, a well set up feep (electronics tuned, everything balanced and blades tracked) is quite easy to fly smoothly in calm or low wind. More than a light breeze, though, and it can be a handful compared to a CP heli, and the constant acceleration/deceleration puts a lot higher load on the motors.

[jasmine2501]

Hey, how do you do that bit with two ESCs? Use revo mix or what? Or just plug the ESC directly into the gyro?

[osterizer]

Yes, the tail ESC input plugs directly to the gyro. If you use a rate or cheap HH gyro, it definitely works best if you have a revo mix in the tx so you can bump the rudder with changing throttle. It isn't any easier to tune it than a standard setup with a 4in1.

[Blade_Killer]

My Honey Bee FP came with 7.4 V Li-Po battery. When I asked the distributer if I could use 11.1 V Li-Po they said no, the 4-n-1 controller was not designed to handle it.
the stock HBFP 4 in 1 can handle 11.1v 3S, many people use them but the motors wear out faster....

[Blade_Killer]

The FlyCamOne2 weighs in at 37 grams. I am not sure where to look for "lifting" capabilities on the HBCP.

now, are we talking about the HBFP or the HBCP2?? :confused:

[jasmine2501]

OK thanks :)

When I build my "training heli" I think I'm going to use a variable pitch tail, but I'll use a tail motor too. I've never seen this done, but it would eliminate the need for a belt drive, and also allow for a novel frame design without a super-rigid tail boom, which may increase durability. Still working on that idea :)

[Riktar]

now, are we talking about the HBFP or the HBCP2?? :confused:

I meant to say HBFP. Another "Not enough coffee" statement.

Sorry about that.

[Riktar]

I think I just ran into my first "snag".

Using the EFLH1024 or the EFLH1023/AR6100 to power the HBFP may be a problem. I did some searching here and on the internet and I can't find what the rating of either controller is.

The fact that the controllers are set up to run dual 180 motors and I am going to try and control a 370 main motor has me wondering if I will fry the controllers from excessive amp draw? I am sure that the tail motor won't be a problem. But am I correct in assuming that the 370 motor will pull double the amps of a single 180 motor?

I suppose I could sell the EFLH1023 3in1 controller on Ebay and buy a EFLH1039 which is used on the Blade CP series that does use the 370 main motor. Cost wise it looks like a even up swap from a dollar standpoint. Any problems with mating the AR6100 receiver to the EFLH1039?

And I know this may be sounding more complicated than just buying a RTF model but this is a exercise in leaning how stuff works and goes together. Not just a "How cheap" can I build a heli.

[Beachcomber]

hmmm, hadn't thought of that. Might be a problem. Be careful buying used controller on E-Bay, make sure it hasn't been fried.

[osterizer]

OK thanks :)

When I build my "training heli" I think I'm going to use a variable pitch tail, but I'll use a tail motor too. I've never seen this done, but it would eliminate the need for a belt drive, and also allow for a novel frame design without a super-rigid tail boom, which may increase durability. Still working on that idea :)

Check out the Joker. I'll never have one (wayyyyyy spendy), but one of their neat features is using a separate motor for the CP tail (shaft driven I believe). The idea is to let you bog the heck out of the mains and still have plenty of tail control. Interesting idea.

[osterizer]

I suppose I could sell the EFLH1023 3in1 controller on Ebay and buy a EFLH1039 which is used on the Blade CP series that does use the 370 main motor. Cost wise it looks like a even up swap from a dollar standpoint. Any problems with mating the AR6100 receiver to the EFLH1039?

The EFLH1031 from the BCPP would probably work. I haven't messed with the 1039. The 1031 also has a rate gyro built in so it only needs adding a receiver if you're sticking with the brushed motors, and the BCPP uses 11.1V/3S packs from the factory..

[Riktar]

Interesting that you mentioned that particular part number. I pulled out my supplement that came with the CX2 and saw that same part number mentioned as well as the EFLH1023.

So I did a search and came up with this thread about both numbers. (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781084&highlight=EFLH1031+CX2)

I sent a PM to the OP to see if he ever determined what the specific differences (if any) are between the 3in1 units.

I tried calling Horizon Hobby to see if they could shed any light on this but they are closed.

But Monday I will be a callin' ;)

[osterizer]

Cool. I'm far from an authority on EFl parts, I just know the 1031 because I have a BCPP. I mentioned it because on a search, the 1039 looked quite different.

[racin06]

Hey, how do you do that bit with two ESCs? Use revo mix or what? Or just plug the ESC directly into the gyro?

I use two ESCs on my Super FP. You have to program throttle/rudder mixing in your computer tx. I use the DX7. This is the same thing as adjusting the proportional settings on a 4-in-1, 3-in-1 etc, on for example, the Blade CP or HBFP. Revo mixing is used to reduce the yawing that is produced as a result of throttle changes. Since I'm using a HH gyro on my Super FP, revo mixing isn't required because the HH gyro corrects any yawing produced by changes in the throttle; therefore, I have revo mixing disabled in my DX7. However, if flying with a rate gyro, then you should dial in some revo mixing.

[jasmine2501]

Hey thanks for the tips! It is interesting about the Joker... proves what they say about you're never the first one to have any given idea - you can only be the one who makes it work :)